This just proves what the "un-gullible" knew all along, that Climate change is natural, and Global Warming is a government tax raiser. A couple of good Volcanic eruptions every couple of years can release more toxins and noxious substances into the atmosphere than Man ever could in his day-day life.
65Million years ago the Earth and her Atmosphere was a far more deadly place to be,compared to today, life not only survived but flourished.
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>>65Million years ago the Earth and her Atmosphere was a far more deadly place to be,compared to today, life not only survived but flourished<<
Tell that to the dinosaurs m8.
:-))
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They was just unlucky Doggles - we could be hit by an Asteroid, if we haven`t starved to death first!
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Do the 'ungullible' believe that fossil fuels will last forever? Fifty years ago, our chemistry teacher was telling us that they were far too valuable a resource to be burnt willy-nilly.
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Looks like the DM selected a year (97) where the temps were at a cyclical peak, to make a comaparison which suited their agenda of the moment. If they had chosen 98, where there was a downward trend, the conclusion would be quite different. The stats need to be viewed over a longer spell to determine trends. Strange that the DM presented a truncated chart.
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>>This just proves what the "un-gullible" knew all along, that Climate change is natural, and Global Warming is a government tax raiser.
I guess you'd call me gullible then devonite.
To me, the government conspiracy theories are for the gullible. They couldn't organise a drink up in a brewery, let alone that, and vested commercial interests would have to go some to triumph over the fossil fuel industry.
>>A couple of good Volcanic eruptions every couple of years can release more toxins and noxious substances into the atmosphere than Man ever could in his day-day life.
Maybe, on a given day or whatever. Overall, if we allowed untrammelled expansion of fossil fuelled power generation? I don't know. The point is that the human generated stuff is on top of what's already there.
>>65Million years ago the Earth and her Atmosphere was a far more deadly place to be,compared to today, life not only survived but flourished.
I think quite a lot didn't survive the 'singularity'.
There are really only two useful theories for now. Climate Change Theory (which is imperfect, not surprisingly) and Ostrich (aka Hope For The Best) Theory.
Gaia doesn't really count if keeping the place habitable for your grandchildren is the objective.
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"A couple of good Volcanic eruptions every couple of years can release more toxins and noxious substances into the atmosphere than Man ever could in his day-day life."
Absolute rubbish I'm afraid. As far as CO2 is concerned which is the major greenhouse gas volcanic emissions constitute about 200 million tonnes per year whihc does seem an awful lot.
Burning of fossil fuels however creates a staggering 26.8 billion tonnes of CO2 per year i.e 75 times as much as volcanic emissions.
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"As far as CO2 is concerned which is the major greenhouse gas "
Ooops!
Do a bit of reading on the subject.
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OK - insert "after water vapour" It doesn't alter my point though.
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"OK - insert "after water vapour" It doesn't alter my point though."
Except that CO2 is not a "toxin" or a "noxious substance" - it's essential to all plant life and the reason why tomato growers pump their greenhouses full of the stuff to increase crop yield. And if it was a toxin we'd all be in trouble - we breathe it out constantly.
And if water vapour is the main greenhouse gas, which it is as you say, how come we don't do something about reducing its levels. Because we can't?
"A couple of good Volcanic eruptions every couple of years can release more toxins and noxious substances into the atmosphere than Man ever could in his day-day life." Quote from post you were replying to.
And pretty accurate - look up "the year without summer" 1815 I think - eruption of Tambora?
Or Krakatoa, or Hekla.
Most quotes about emissions from volcanoes only include land based emissions yet there are thousands of undersea eruptions going on all the time from mid-oceanic ridges - they tend to be gentle and continuous. And the odd thing is, they have incredibly varied and prolific life around the outlets - see several National Geographic articles. CO2 ain't bad - it's good!!
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Where did I say Co2 was a noxious substance? The figures I quoted for volcanic eruptions are annual averages and do include undersea vents.
CO2 is neither bad nor good. Its an essential gas for plant life and is a greenhouse gas. Human activity is releasing huge quantities into the atmosphere and that cannot be denied.
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I did a bit of reading on the subject.The average temperature has risen over the last hundred years by 0.5 % degree centrigrade.This temperature rise was primarely before 1948.The sattelite information over the last twenty years shows no heating of the earth but a slight cooling.The so called warming of the earth could not have happened to co2.The total co2 in the atmosphere (0.033%) is so low that it has hardly no effect.The story about c02 is a nonsens and the sun is responsible for the earths warming exspecially the sunspots which move in years cycles.Al Gore the game is over.>:)
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I really wish I knew whether or not climate change, global warming, call it whatever was or was not a man-made thing, was or was not significant, could or could not be tackled or, for that matter, existed as a reality or simply as a concept.
I can listen to a convincing argument from either side and feel myself swayed. I can see how people can convince themselves, but I can't quite convince myself one way or the other permanently. I guess I sway towards it being both a problem and man-made, but not convincingly.
Neither do I believe our main function on this planet is to be non-polluting to the exclusion of activity.
However, if one effect of all the worry, focus and publicity about it is to cause people, business and countries to pay attention to pollution and to try to cut down on pollution, then I can't see it’s a bad thing.
I'd rather have a quieter, sweeter smelling world with trees 'n stuff.
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We aren't going to know for sure in our lifetimes. Meanwhile, giving it credence seems pretty failsafe and will have some benefits anyway.
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>> www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
"Damage: Global warming has been caused in part by the CO2 emitted by fossil fuels. This image shows smoke billowing out of a power station"
I always thought that what billows out of the top of cooling towers is steam, not smoke.
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You know that! - I know that!, but the "gullible" that the "scaremongering" is aimed at don`t!
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>> I always thought that what billows out of the top of cooling towers is steam,
>> not smoke.
>>
clearly you were not educated by BBC TV science programmes. ;-)
www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/21c/air_quality/improving_air_qualityrev2.shtml
Last edited by: John H on Mon 15 Oct 12 at 15:16
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If you look at the chimney rather than the cooling towers, you will see the smoke coming out of it.
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>> Rumours of climate change are greatly exaggerated.
>>
The headline refers to "global warming" and in the report changes to talking about "climate change".
Whateva. Who cares? Something for your children and/or grandchildren and/or greatgrandchildren to worry about if it turns out to be true or false.
>> Breathe easy - there's no climate change >>
Most on this forum will have stopped breathing before the truth is out.
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>> The headline refers to "global warming" and in the report changes to talking about "climate
>> change".
My tame scientist tells me they're linked terms.
Global warming is a general rise in temperature across the world. A broad scientific consensus attributes the warming to CO2 from fossil fuel.
Climate Change is the consequence of warming interacting with other factors affecting different types of climate. The UK, for example, is significantly warmer than would be expected for our latitude. Edinburgh is marginally north of Moscow. Oceans warmed by Atlantic currents make a difference. If global warming causes the currents to move away the efffect will be that British Isles get colder!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 15 Oct 12 at 15:43
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My cousin lives in Berlin, I probably won't visit in January again! It's at the same latitude as Corby, but its about 6C colder from December to February than London.
There's your Gulf Stream of course as above, and also your jet stream. I don't think it's known whether the jet stream is influenced by climate change or is random. Its being in the wrong place contributed to the unsettled July this year.
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I've bin checking the jet stream weekly for most of this year and it's right up el creeko, hence no summer:
maps.wunderground.com/data/640x480/2xeu_jt.gif
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>> My tame scientist tells me they're linked terms.
>>
My tame scientist tells me that human activity has likely caused climate change; and that although the global average temperature has risen or will rise from a datum it does not necessarily follow that warming has taken across the globe - because there may be locations where the temperature has fallen or will fall from a datum.
But one thing I do know for certain - nothing I do will impact the changes that are happening to the global climate (and even if you used an instrument as expensive as the Hadron Collider, capable of measuring the tiniest of changes, no one will be able to prove how my use/misuse of energy made an iota of difference to the world now or in a 100 years time).
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In the same vein as your vote is irrelevant to the outcome of a general election so we may as well abolish democracy.
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Good post John, and you could go further and say "no one will be able to prove how my/or Britain's/or Europe's use/misuse of energy made an iota of difference to the world now or in a 100 years time.
Couple(!) of things really get me about this:-
1) Global temperature rise is based on a figure from 1880. i.e. that temps have risen by 0.75 deg since then due to man's increased output of CO2. Temp in 1880 was 14deg +/- 2deg so they say. Surely then our present temp is well within the margin of error? So we don't even know whether global temps have risen since 1880.
2) How did they get the "global ave temp" in 1880? Nobody had even been to the N or S Poles! Even in USA the trans continental railways had only existed for 20 or less years - were they getting accurate temp readings from Wyoming? Arizona? New Mexico? etc. And that's not to mention S. America - most of Brasil etc. What about most of Africa? Did David Livingstone go there to set up accurate weather stations? Did Burke and Hare do the same in Aus? Where do they get the "average global temp" for 1880 from? CET? Oh, and in Europe - was there a dedicated weather observer in Oulu?
3) This thing that "the 10 hottest years have been in the last 20 years" (or something like that). Yes well, ten of my ten tallest years have been in the last ten - in fact, 40 of my 40 tallest years have been in the last 40 because I have been 6ft tall for the last 40 years. It doesn't mean that I am getting taller!!
4) The link between CO2 increases and Global warming/climate change/climate disruption (or whatever they now call it. Yeah well, correlation is not causation. There are a million things that could correlate with the rise (?) in global temps - number of my teeth that have fallen out in last 20 years, increase in my waist line size, number of times I get annoyed by posts about global warming, decrease in my ability to run more than 50 yards, increase in my council tax, increase in my gas/electricity charges, decrease in my "holding my temper" time, increase in the number of middle lane hoggers (IMHO), decrease in interest rates on my (paltry) savings, increase in number of pointless wind farms, increase in MP's fraudlulent expenses claims and , worst of all increase in my consumption of small cigars and red wine while reading rubbish about global warming/climate change/climate disruption.
Rant over, except that my lawn needs cutting yet again because the weather (not climate) has been so carp this year.
Never mind - off for a couple of weeks now- hope it's a warm end of Oct - could do with a couple of weeks global warming
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Breathe easy - there's no climate change - No FM2R
