Medical professionals are raising concerns about our ability to to read instructions and manage our own medication.
Specifically, 43% of over 16s are unable to understand everyday literature, (medicine dosages and timing etc) and this rises to 61% when mathematical skills are also required. The reading level required was equivalent to a GCSE Grade C or higher.
78% were considered unlikely to be unable to calculate their BMI for a weight/height chart provided.
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I'm not surprised because, in my experience, quite a few English teachers aren't very literate.
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If everyday literature (or calculation) requires GCSE C standard then there is something wrong. It either needs to be better expressed in simpler language or it needs explainig in person.
If attaining GCSE at level C means anything there will be a significant chunk of the population who won't get there.
Anybody who cannot see that has a problem with probability and averages!!
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My old day used a saying regularly which used to make me chuckle:
"Three-quarters of this world don't know how the other half live"
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I always liked the idea of the Romans, who of course quartered Gaul into three halves.
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I tutor maths and after working through the Maths bit we come to the Arithmetic bit -
and all but the very very best struggle with fractions, percentages.
If the nurse/doctor does not know his/ her cls from mls as happened a few years back with a German locum who killed a patient by administering 10 x the prescribed dose!
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>> I tutor maths and after working through the Maths bit we come to the Arithmetic
>> bit -
>> and all but the very very best struggle with fractions, percentages.
And I suspect that's the problem. Mrs B tutors A level chemistry and says much the same A lot of what is described as maths is relatively straightforward arithmetic - a lack of familiarity/fluency with fairly basic mechanical operations is the hurdle.
Are we missing something in early primary education? Personally I think there's a lot to be said, once the principle of multiplication is understood, for old fashioned rote learning of tables. We had a teacher in what would now be yr4 with a reputation for being a tartar over such things. Couple of mornings a week she'd prowl the room poiting at people in turn challenging them with '7nines', 8fives or whatever. Can still remember most of them today.
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>> .............. challenging them with '7nines', 8fives or whatever. Can still remember
>> most of them today.
I can still remember all of them today, including the thirteens. I can also recite the alphabet backwards.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 15:35
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>> > I can also recite
>> the alphabet backwards.
How many times in your adult life has that been useful?
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>> >> > I can also recite
>> >> the alphabet backwards.
>>
>> How many times in your adult life has that been useful?
It's all about exercising the brain. A large proportion of education is (or should be) in the interest of exercising the brain, rather than teaching specific facts.
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>> >> >> > I can also recite
>> >> >> the alphabet backwards.
>> >>
>> >> How many times in your adult life has that been useful?
>>
>> It's all about exercising the brain.
learning things rote, even backwards has nothing whatsoever to do with exercising the brain, its just like learning facts, there is not the remotest bit of thinking involved.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 15:51
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>> I can also recite the alphabet backwards<<
So can I L'es but my parents taught me that from a very early age.
They also taught me to do mental arthmetic the easy way (359+98 =359+100-2) and it has served me very well through the years.
Pat
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>> I tutor maths and after working through the Maths bit we come to the Arithmetic
>> bit -
>> and all but the very very best struggle with fractions, percentages.
Why on earth do we bother with fractions? They should be consigned to the bucket of useless things, everyone dealing in percentages only.
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>> Why on earth do we bother with fractions? They should be consigned to the bucket
>> of useless things, everyone dealing in percentages only.
>>
Because it just doesn't sound right for a TV announcer to say something like "...and now lets go back to Wembley Stadium for the second 50% of the F.A. Cup Final".
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>> >> Why on earth do we bother with fractions? They should be consigned to the
>> bucket
>> >> of useless things, everyone dealing in percentages only.
>> >>
>> Because it just doesn't sound right for a TV announcer to say something like "...and
>> now lets go back to Wembley Stadium for the second 50% of the F.A. Cup
>> Final".
So what do they say at extra time?
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>> So what do they say at extra time?
>>
They go back to halves again: "First half of extra time", "Second half of extra time".
If you want something really weird you ought to see American Football. The game is divided into four quarters of 15 minutes each. If the score is tied at the end, they play a "fifth quarter". (And yes, I have heard commentators say this!)
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.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 15:47
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>> Why on earth do we bother with fractions? They should be consigned to the bucket
>> of useless things, everyone dealing in percentages only.
You prefer 50% to a half? Or 33.333333333333333333333% (an approximation) to 1/3?
A percentage is only the numerator of a fraction whose denominator is 100.
Why do you need that at all? What's wrong with 0.5?
Fractions have their uses - avoiding fractions, what's the (concise and accurate) formula for the volume of a cone?
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I see Zero has tossed his penny banger into the crowd and retired again!
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>> I see Zero has tossed his penny banger into the crowd and retired again!
Sorry I didnt realise I only had two minutes (1 30th / hour) to answer.
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>> Sorry I didnt realise I only had two minutes (1 30th / hour) to answer.
Do you mean one 30th of an hour?
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>> I see Zero has tossed his penny banger into the crowd and retired again!
>>
Oh for goodness sake his last comment was less than 10 minutes before this one
grow up
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>> >> I see Zero has tossed his penny banger into the crowd and retired again!
>> >>
>> Oh for goodness sake his last comment was less than 10 minutes before this one
>>
>> grow up
It was a light hearted comment on Zero's tendency to make comments that he knows will provoke a response (not a bad thing on a discussion forum).
But if this forum is too serious for that sort of comment, then I'll move on. I think it's just you though.
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>>Why on earth do we bother with fractions? They should be consigned to the bucket of >>useless things, everyone dealing in percentages only.
Fractions are used, for example, where they are exact values
(root 3)/2 is accurate and easier to handle than the approximate 0.8666...........
1/(root 2) is exact instead of 0.7071........
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>> I tutor maths and after working through the Maths bit we come to the Arithmetic
>> bit -
>> and all but the very very best struggle with fractions, percentages.
>>
>> If the nurse/doctor does not know his/ her cls from mls as happened a few
>> years back with a German locum who killed a patient by administering 10 x the
>> prescribed dose!
>>
Another reason to leave European (dis) community.
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When A* is called A star, instead of A asterisk, some pupils are bound to be baffled.
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>> When A* is called A star, instead of A asterisk, some pupils are bound to
>> be baffled.
>>
As Dove found out recently with their TV campaign, containing the confusing line "stronger than asterisk". Who knows what that's supposed to mean? Was it intentional? Did they mean Asterix? How is soap stronger than Asterix anyway? Weird.
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My 7 year old daughter is reading novels aimed at teenagers, such as the Harry Potter series on her own, unaided. My 5 year old will be doing the same in the next 12-18 months.
The idea that the modern education system is to blame for everything is nonsense.
Try feckless, lazy parents who do nothing to encourage their children to read, or to do anything that might involve learning and stretching themselves outside of a school environment, and who increasingly expect teachers to do their jobs for them, as well as to teach.
Oh, and my 7 year old is learning her times tables by rote. It's not dead.
Last edited by: DP on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 15:32
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>> novels aimed at teenagers, such as the Harry
>> Potter series
>>
>>
Deviation!
The Harry Potter books are not novels.
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This means that at least 60% of people haven't got a hope in hell of understanding their fuel bills. It's no wonder that so many are ripped off.
My wife is a special needs teacher at a private school and deals with the youngsters who can't grasp maths. I would introduce the term 'dyscalculia' - but no doubt it would only start an argument on here. Anyway, most of us don't have that, we're just a bit thick where maths is concerned.
Most of us stumble sooner or later in mathematics but a sympathetic and encouraging teacher can be a massive help. I believe that a major part of the problem is that maths (and physics) teachers 'get it' and simply can't understand why the rest of us don't.
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>> I believe that a major part of the problem is
>> that maths (and physics) teachers 'get it' and simply can't understand why the rest of
>> us don't.
>>
I agree, we always found that my wife could help our 3 understand their maths homework much better than I could for exactly that sort of reason
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>> >> I believe that a major part of the problem is
>> >> that maths (and physics) teachers 'get it' and simply can't understand why the rest
>> of
>> >> us don't.
>> >>
>> I agree . . .
+ 2. Excellent point.
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>> >> >> I believe that a major part of the problem is
>> >> >> that maths (and physics) teachers 'get it' and simply can't understand why the
>> rest
>> >> of
>> >> >> us don't.
>> >> >>
>> >> I agree . . .
>>
>> + 2. Excellent point.
>>
+3
I have a degree in Physics with Maths.. Arithmetic is easy: I could probably if pushed do multiplication tables mentally up to 100.. after all once you have stated
135x1 = 135
then 135 x 2 = 135 +135 = 270...
Oops I restate " if pushed do multiplication tables mentally up to 100.. 1,000
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>>Oops I restate " if pushed do multiplication tables mentally up to 100.. 1,000
On the same lines that i can do the Million x table! ;=)
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"This means that at least 60% of people haven't got a hope in hell of understanding their fuel bills. It's no wonder that so many are ripped off."
That's exactly the problem.
It's also the root cause of many of the threads we read about hapless buyers who buy lemons on dodgy finance because "it's only costing me £99 a week", but they're unable to work out that this means they're paying a staggering percentage - or fraction, even ;-) - of the car's purchase price in interest and charges on top.
I've also heard several teachers remark on how teaching maths in some disadvantaged classes can feel like banging their heads off a brick wall, but ask the same pupils to calculate the odds and winnings on quite complicated forecast betting and they can do it in their heads instantly. HOW we teach "hard" subjects is as important as WHAT we teach.
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They are moneymaking for sure but, if they aren't novels what are they?
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>> 78% were considered unlikely to be unable to calculate their BMI
So if they are unlikely to be unable... that means they are likely to be able doesn't it?
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Yes! Touch typing transcription skills low on the small list of my life skill set!
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I'm disappointed. I thought it was a clever way of saying 22% were unlikely to be able to calculate (read from a table?) their BMI ;-)
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When calculators were introduced to the company for whom I worked at the time, I struggled to understand their method of operation!
I preferred pencil & paper or mental calculations!
Now, of course familiarity has cured that blind spot.
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41 years ago I worked for 3 months as a "computation clerk" in the Labour Exchange. I had to work out the weekly benefit payments and on a Thursday and Friday morning "sign on" the claimants. The rest of the time was spent working out, manually and with ready reckoners, how much each one was to get!
There was one calulator available in the building for special jobs. A mechanical Facit, like this
home.vicnet.net.au/~wolff/calculators/Tech/FacitC1-13/C113.htm
that had a fairly serious looking leather case and was kept in a safe by the Executive Officer (Grade 5).
They must have been some sort of pinnacle of achievement in mechanical design and manufacturing, weighed about a stone and I imagine contained hundreds of precisely manufactured parts. I'm not sure anybody really knew how to use it.
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I bet you remember Hollerith cards too, although where I worked the were a girlie thing!
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>> I bet you remember Hollerith cards too, although where I worked the were a girlie
>> thing!
I used to fix the punches, verifiers and sorters.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 17:52
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>> >> I bet you remember Hollerith cards too, although where I worked the were a
>> girlie
>> >> thing!
>>
>> I used to fix the punches, verifiers and sorters.
>>
...............and still at it years later. :-)
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>> I bet you remember Hollerith cards too, although where I worked the were a girlie
>> thing!
Funnily enough, yes!
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>> I bet you remember Hollerith cards too, although where I worked the were a girlie
>> thing!
The office at along defunct soap making company, where I worked, used these:-
www.computinghistory.org.uk/sec/888/Comptometers/
One of the operators was most obliging!
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>
>> Deviation!
>> The Harry Potter books are not novels.
>>
Wikipedia and most book critics disagree.
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Ah, my old PE teacher springs to mind.
"Awwight, I want you lot to divide into three 'alves. One 'arf over there, one 'arf in the middle, and the other 'arf over there."
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>> Ah, my old PE teacher springs to mind.
>>
>> "Awwight, I want you lot to divide into three 'alves. One 'arf over there, one
>> 'arf in the middle, and the other 'arf over there."
>>
But its only a game of "two 'alves"
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I still remember with cold, contemptuous fury the carphound who bore the title 'head of maths' in my youngest daughter's primary school, a bit over thirty years ago. By imposing some half-witted new-fangled system for teaching arithmetic to small nippers, the damn moron destroyed the child's precocious bent for maths before it could take shape. It withered on the vine under a barrage of 'magic numbers' and similar excrement. So the poor girl went off in another direction and became a lefty and tree hugger.
God what a prat the man was. Someone I knew once asked him how he dealt with nippers cleverer than him. He replied: 'Oh, that never happens.'
Prat. And there were and are many other power-crazed twerps of the same stripe.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 7 Dec 12 at 18:02
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Of course, even the greatest minds are defeated by some aspects of maths.
www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-technology/hawking-baffled-by-electricity-bill-2012112149876
“Overall, the complete absence of logic makes it an insoluble problem. This is not a phrase I’ve used before, but it has done my head in.”
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Met many people like that whilst employed by BP. A.C.Decisions where made which cost as they say loads of money without results.Loads of Prats about.
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>> Very timely: report yesterday
>>
>> www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9718492/Maths-taught-by-teachers-with-just-a-C-grade-at-GCSE.html
>> "Maths taught by teachers with just a C-grade at GCSE"
Is that really a problem in a primary school?
My primary education was in the time when most of the teachers went to training college and got a teaching certificate in two or three years. The younger ones would have had O level maths the older, including the tables challenger Mrs Shepherd, school certif.
Far more important that they understand how kids learn and have a good scheme to teach from then that they've grasped the subject to A level. Same with English.
Requiring both to A level in Primary teachers simply eliminates lots of good teachers from the pool.
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Primary Arithmetic- learning to add, subtract, multiply & divide is a long drawn out process that requires a lot of rote learning (tables) and practice - mental arithmetic and paper & pencil many hours per week over 6 years.
About 30+ years ago this was deemed too hard and they then made it Primary Maths which introduced basic maths..........this took time away from Arithmetic so those who found counting difficult got less time on the numbers.
Roll on some 2 x generations of poorly taught Arithmetic and low and behold the newer Primary Teachers of today are not very fluent themselves...............downward spiral continues.
Rachel Riley on Countdown did Maths as a degree and when she started the programme a few years back she was slower than one would want............roll on a few years and 400+ programmes she is sharp........it only proves practice makes perfect.
As for her figure it is exceptionally pleasing.
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>> Rachel Riley on Countdown ...........
I stopped watching Countdown shortly after Nick Hewer took over. I couldn't stand his weird style and continous unfriendly glare.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 06:57
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>> >> Rachel Riley on Countdown ...........
>>
>> I stopped watching Countdown shortly after Nick Hewer took over. I couldn't stand his weird
>> style and continous unfriendly glare.
Hes my hero
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 07:17
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>> Is that really a problem in a primary school?
>>
How about writing to Professor David Burghes, Professor of Mathematics Teaching at Plymouth University, and asking him the question?
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>> >> Is that really a problem in a primary school?
>> >>
>>
>> How about writing to Professor David Burghes, Professor of Mathematics Teaching at Plymouth University, and
>> asking him the question?
Is that a come on or a put down :-)
What do YOU think on the subject.
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>> >> >> Is that really a problem in a primary school?
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >> How about writing to Professor David Burghes, Professor of Mathematics Teaching at Plymouth University,
>> and
>> >> asking him the question?
>>
>> Is that a come on or a put down :-)
>>
>> What do YOU think on the subject.
Whatever he can cut and paste from wiki.
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Poor State of Adult Maths and Reading Skills - L'escargot
