Friend has a dampish downstairs bathroom (8x6) and is after a dehumidifier to help keep it dryer. She`s a pensioner so not rich! and after looking on Ebay there are several affordable 10lt per day units, (which would do the job) but they usually only have a 1.5 lt tank which would mean emptying it several times a day.
Me was wondering if it would be feasible to modify it a bit by drilling a hole in the tank and fitting in a piece of tubing (windscreen washer tube?) and running this down a nearby plug-hole, thereby doing away with the emptying cycle.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
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We have one in the conservatory and they can fill up fairly quickly. I can't see a problem with what you intend to do.
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First of all I would try an extractor fan and plenty of ventilation, to see if that cures the problem.
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>> First of all I would try an extractor fan and plenty of ventilation, to see
>> if that cures the problem.
>>
Yes I second that. I have an elderly friend who complain her walls are damp. The problem is of course that she never opens a window and has all the air vents closed. She also dries the washing on the rads. Have tried explaining that she need to ventilate the rooms but she is worried about the cost of heating as so many elderly people are.
Not sure I would recommend running a de-humidfier 24 hours a day as a matter of course. Could end up being quite costly and simply opening the window for a while or using an extractor fan and closing the door after after the bath or shower has been used may well be the best and cheapest option.
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>> Not sure I would recommend running a de-humidfier 24 hours a day as a matter
>> of course. Could end up being quite costly ...............
Our domestic dehumidifier is rated at only 200 watts, and I think that's fairly typical.
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>> >> Not sure I would recommend running a de-humidfier 24 hours a day as a
>> matter
>> >> of course. Could end up being quite costly ...............
>>
>> Our domestic dehumidifier is rated at only 200 watts, and I think that's fairly typical.
>>
WHich probably cost around 3p an hour to run. That's 72 p per day or £22 per month. Obviously not a lot to you but to someone struggling to make ends meet could be quite a lot .
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I used to have one several years ago.
It never got near its stated removal rate but worked well. I doubt she would need to empty it more than once a day.
Mine, and most available at the time, had an option of adding a tube to bypass the tank. But then you need to position it so gravity can take the water away.
Last edited by: Crocks on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 13:05
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Although I know nothing about dehumidifiers, your plan sounds logical. A bit like the condensate drain on a combi boiler. I would guess that the dehumidifier has a tank as it is portable. I would use something with a bit larger bore than screenwasher pipe, there are several sizes of flexible plastic pipe available in the DIY sheds.
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Thanks for the ideas so-far, (noted a bigger-bore pipe would be better, and that it may only need emptying once a day). Bearing those thoughts in mind I will order one for her and see how it goes, it may be that as suggested that after a couple of days running and it`s removed the bulk of the moisture, the 1.5lt tank may be sufficient with a once a day empty, if it isn`t i can play! at least it`s an option - I can always plug the hole again if it doesn`t work!
Unfortunately, Extractor fans, holes in wall, air-vents etc aren`t really an option for her at the moment hence the dehumidifier idea.
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Wlf n safety ? Electricity in a little bathroom?
Last edited by: henry k on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 13:47
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I'm a big fan of dehumidifiers (I've had one since 1988) and we currently have two ~ one which is usually on in the bedroom during the day, and one sited permanently in the garage for when I put my car away wet. All the dehumidifiers I've had have always had provision for removing the tank and fitting a continuous drain tube which is usually supplied. Obviously the tube has to have a continuous fall. The quoted rate of extraction is for a very high humidity in a very high ambient temperature (like the Amazon rain forest!) so a 1.5 litre tank should be enough to last at least 12 hours. Damp in bathrooms is usually caused by not having enough ventilation. I bet your friend doesn't open the window or door when bathing or washing.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 14:18
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>> Friend has a dampish downstairs bathroom (8x6) and is after a dehumidifier to help keep
>> it dryer. She`s a pensioner so not rich! and after looking on Ebay there are
>> several affordable 10lt per day units, (which would do the job) but they usually only
>> have a 1.5 lt tank which would mean emptying it several times a day.
>> Me was wondering if it would be feasible to modify it a bit by drilling
>> a hole in the tank and fitting in a piece of tubing (windscreen washer tube?)
>> and running this down a nearby plug-hole, thereby doing away with the emptying cycle.
>> Any thoughts?
Not a problem, the 10 litre a day one is NOT going to produce 10 litres of water a day that you need to get rid of, it has a 1.5 litre tank for a reason.
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Depending on the size of the bathroom she might not be able to use a dehumidifier in there anyway due to proximity of zones 1 + 2. And she should budget for an RCD if one not installed in consumer unit.
If she uses electric heating then she'll save money with a dehumidifier, but if she keeps vents closed in the rooms to save money yet dries clothes on radiators she might want to think of the longer term cost in terms of both wasted energy and damage to the house.
Drying clothes over a radiator means that the heat from the system goes into the latent heat of evaporation, not warming the room.
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>> Depending on the size of the bathroom she might not be able to use a
>> dehumidifier in there anyway due to proximity of zones 1 + 2.
For those who don't know anything about "zones 1 and 2" (which included me until I Googled for it) this is what it's all about. www.lights4living.com/bathroom-light-information/i36
I'm no wiser, though, when it comes to having a dehumidifier in the bathroom!
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 15:33
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>> >> Depending on the size of the bathroom she might not be able to use
>> a
>> >> dehumidifier in there anyway due to proximity of zones 1 + 2.
>>
>> For those who don't know anything about "zones 1 and 2" (which included me until
>> I Googled for it) this is what it's all about. www.lights4living.com/bathroom-light-information/i36
>> I'm no wiser, though, when it comes to having a dehumidifier in the bathroom!
>>
It's allowed, provided the flex doesn't allow it to reach either zone.
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>> It's allowed, provided the flex doesn't allow it to reach either zone.
>>
Yet again I am forced to offer a small prayer in thanks that I live on the continent, where bathrooms have mains sockets on the walls and what you do with them is your own business.
Wouldn't it be simpler all round if Blighty were just to introduce a Coroner's verdict of "Death by lack of basic common sense"?
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>>where bathrooms have mains sockets on the walls and what you do with them is your own business. >>
Too sensible for UK Elf & Safety.
If we allowed that in the UK, it would put a lot of electricians and Council & Government jobsworths out of jobs, and make conveyancing cowboys' jobs easier without the need for certificates from all and sundry.
Last edited by: John H on Thu 13 Dec 12 at 12:36
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>>introduce...... "Death by lack of basic common sense"
Absolutely.
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If the bathroom is the only room in the house with this problem, then a dehumidifier is a huge sledgehammer to crack little a nut.
It's ventilation you need - nothing more, nothing less.
In my 'umble opinion, that is.
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>> Friend has a dampish downstairs bathroom (8x6) and is after a dehumidifier to help keep
>> it dryer.
Placing a fan in the bathroom (with the door open) will lower the moisture level in the bathroom and spread it into the rest of the house. We sometimes use a fan pointed at a window to demist the inside of the window.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 15:38
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Obviously bad house design! bathroom (8x6) contains, Loo and small washbasin on internal wall, non-opening window on external wall - door opens inwards from 1 metre wide lobby which is between the bathroom and door-less kitchen, and which houses the back-door. If she`s cooking she mostly has the backdoor slightly open to let steam etc out, but particularly at this time of year any incoming air is quite damp. Dehumidifier would be in what would have been a zone 3 area below the window and run from a kitchen socket.
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10 ltres a day ? does the house have a roof?
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A non-opening window in a bathroom? Little wonder the lady has problems.
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"bad house design!"
And probably the fact that modern (or modernised) houses are so well sealed these days. Double glazed, airtight windows and doors, insulated lofts, closed climneys, cavity wall insulation etc are great for keeping the heat in but prevent air circulation. Remember the "good old days" (!!) when every window, door and fireplace were draughty? Most houses weren't damp (and many did not even have a damp-proof course) but they were bloomin' cold! Guess de-humidifier is the best bet unless your friend has a lot of woolly jumpers and wants to keep windows and doors open!
How about fitting an opening window to bathroom so that air can circulate after shower/bath/washing?
Prob more expensive than dehumidifier?
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>> And probably the fact that modern (or modernised) houses are so well sealed these days.
>> Double glazed, airtight windows and doors, insulated lofts, closed climneys, cavity wall insulation etc are
>> great for keeping the heat in but prevent air circulation.
>>
and great for preventing condensation, as there are no cold walls.
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>> and great for preventing condensation, as there are no cold walls.
>>
>>
Provided you've got the set. Our last house had DG, loft insulation and only one chimney - for the gas warm air heating. Cavity walls were uninsulated.
Winter with windows closed and condensation in corners of rooms soon loosened wallpaper and encouraged black mould too.
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>> Provided you've got the set.
>>
proviso implicit - see the quote to which I replied.
But I think (maybe wrongly) that a chimney should have been a plus for reducing condensation, and that forced warm air heating should have circulated in your rooms to prevent cold spots.
Is it possible you had damp coming in from the outside?
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Without ventilation or other means of removing moist air no matter how wells the house is insulated you will eventually get condensation on the coldest surface whatever that may be. There is a physical limit to how much moisture air can hold. It is essential to have adequate ventilation or you will have problems. Insulation does not cure condensation.
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>> Insulation does not cure condensation.
I've come across a number of people who have been disappointed when newly installed double glazing, which they've had to replace their old wooden framed windows, hasn't completely cured their condensation problem.
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>> Without ventilation
>>
Who said there was no ventilation?
Who said insulation cures condensation?
Insulation and ventilation are stipulated in building regulations.
The latest requirements for heat loss vs ventilation mean that one of the solutions being implemented is to use heat-recovery systems.
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>> The latest requirements for heat loss vs ventilation mean that one of the solutions being
>> implemented is to use heat-recovery systems.
Pal of mine in Northumberland has a house like that, a converted church hall as it happens. There are little vents here and there, including what look like shower extractors in the ceilings. When it's completely quiet, you can hear a gentle sighing noise noise now and again as it goes about its business.
Here we just have draughts.
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Well, I think that "the original quote (you) were replying to" implied a lack of ventilation".
"And probably the fact that modern (or modernised) houses are so well sealed these days. Double glazed, airtight windows and doors, insulated lofts, closed chimneys, cavity wall insulation etc are great for keeping the heat in but prevent air circulation."
And if a house is so well insulated, where does all the water vapour (from washing, showering, cooking, drying clothes indoors, breathing, etc etc) go? That was my point - doesn't matter whether you have "the full set" or not, the water vapour will condense somewhere when air is saturated, say for instance, when heating is off at night, temp drops a bit and goes below its saturated vapour point. Hence, damp or condensation on any surface that is slightly cooler. Try breathing on a double glazed window.
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>>Try breathing on a double glazed window.
>>
If you have double glazing with up to date spec glass you will get condensation on the outside as the outer glass pane is cold, the inner pane should be warm.
tinyurl.com/av5628v - (www.pilkington.com)
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 10 Dec 12 at 01:13
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tinyurl.com/av5628v - (www.pilkington.com)
Answer no 6 is pretty weak.
Remove sticky labels with meths.
No mention of fhow to clean off finger prints ( from glues and solents they use) left by the installer. :-(
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 10 Dec 12 at 01:13
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I don't particularly want to prolong this "argument" but again, the point has been missed ON.
We have been told that " bathroom (8x6) contains, Loo and small washbasin on internal wall, non-opening window on external wall - door opens inwards from 1 metre wide lobby which is between the bathroom and door-less kitchen, and which houses the back-door. If she`s cooking she mostly has the backdoor slightly open to let steam etc out, but particularly at this time of year any incoming air is quite damp."
All I am suggesting is that ventilation (or a dehumidifier) is necessary. Doesn't matter whether or not she has the latest Pilkington glass - she has an unventilated bathroom in which baths/showers are taken. Next to that is a doorless kitchen where she opens the back door if cooking. Does she open the door when boiling the kettle? Does she only open the back door to let "steam" out. Doesn't steam imply fully saturated air? If so, then at night, when the heating goes off then the rooms will cool, air will drop below its dew-point temp and condensation will occur.
"If you have double glazing with up to date spec glass you will get condensation on the outside as the outer glass pane is cold, the inner pane should be warm."
Well, possibly, but condensation on outside will only occur if glass is cooler than ambient temp of the air outside and inner pane may well be "warm" but may also be cooler than dew point temp of air in the bathroom so condensation will still occur and your breath will still condense on inside pane when you breathe on it unless inside pane is warmer than your breath. (pretty warm)
So, basically, there are 3 options
1. Keep temp inside bathroom above dewpoint temp of (saturated?) air in bathroom 24 hrs a day.
2. Ventilate so that saturated air mixes with outside air to reduce moisture content (won't work if outside air is also saturated (v cold or foggy/raining etc)) and also won't work if there is no window to open/ and or next to v humid kitchen.
3. Install dehumidifier to reduce humidity of air in bathroom so condensation doesn't occur
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>> the point has been missed ON.
Sorry, my thread drift. :-(
My glass is Planitherm, not Pilkington, and does condense on the outside occasionally.
www.planitherm.com/
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 9 Dec 12 at 20:56
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>> I'm a big fan of dehumidifiers >>
except for the one in your car. ;)
Last edited by: John H on Sun 9 Dec 12 at 12:50
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>> >> I'm a big fan of dehumidifiers >>
>>
>> except for the one in your car. ;)
The one in my car dehumidifies the air coming into my car. It doesn't dehumidify the air that's already in my car.
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A space dehumidifier collects the condensation resulting from running the air across cooled coils, typically then reheats the air, and then blows it back out into the room.
Does the system in a car really do that as a side effect of aircon? I thought that the aircon was only active when the air needed cooling and that if the air needed heating, as in the winter, then the aircon was inactive.
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>> Does the system in a car really do that as a side effect of aircon?
>> I thought that the aircon was only active when the air needed cooling and that
>> if the air needed heating, as in the winter, then the aircon was inactive.
Some use cold aircon air and blend it with hot air. Until it gets down to about 5c outside when aircon turns itself off
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>> >> >> I'm a big fan of dehumidifiers >>
>> >>
>> >> except for the one in your car. ;)
>>
>> The one in my car dehumidifies the air coming into my car. It doesn't dehumidify
>> the air that's already in my car.
It does if recirculation mode is on, some climate controls turn that on by default.
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>> It does if recirculation mode is on, some climate controls turn that on by default.
>>
>>
C5 had auto recirc. It activated uf there was a lot of fumes (smokey diesel etc) outside, you used the windscreen washers, or (oddly) engaged reverse
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>> Does the system in a car really do that as a side effect of aircon?
>>
Climate Control does that, as Zero said. Eg. BMW:
"automatic air conditioning system channels fresh air from outside the vehicle, cools it, reduces its humidity and, depending on the temperature setting, warms it again. "
"Automatic Air Recirculation (AAC) delivers noticeably better air quality in the cabin of your BMW. The system recognises pollutants and contaminants in the outside air and removes them in a microfilter. Should the concentration of pollutants exceed a maximum level, the system automatically closes off air intake from outside and temporarily recirculates the air in the cabin.
The condensation sensor ensures that the windows of the vehicle do not become misted, even if humidity levels increase. "
>> It does if recirculation mode is on, some climate controls turn that on by default.
>>
>>
Snaily likes to switch off his auto CC and uses it manually as an AC system.
Last edited by: John H on Sun 9 Dec 12 at 17:35
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>> >> The one in my car dehumidifies the air coming into my car. It doesn't
>> dehumidify
>> >> the air that's already in my car.
>>
If there is air coming into your car there is air leaving it, otherwise you car would inflate like a balloon. Your aircon does dehumidify the air in your car. The air outlets are often hidden behind the rear bumper.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 9 Dec 12 at 18:04
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>> >> >> >> I'm a big fan of dehumidifiers >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> except for the one in your car. ;)
>> >>
>> >> The one in my car dehumidifies the air coming into my car. It doesn't
>> dehumidify
>> >> the air that's already in my car.
>>
>> It does if recirculation mode is on, some climate controls turn that on by default.
Nothing in my car does things by default. They all do what I set them to do. I'm in charge.
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>> Nothing in my car does things by default. They all do what I set them
>> to do. I'm in charge.
>>
I don't think any car has worked like that since the day someone first installed a thermostat in the cooling system.
Do you have an Advance/Retard lever on your steering column?
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>>Do you have an Advance/Retard lever on your steering column?
I do - and an air control (aka choke) and a throttle lever on my vintage car :o)
PS - no thermostat, no water pump,and thermosyphon cooling.
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>> Do you have an Advance/Retard lever on your steering column?
>>
'Er indoors on the passenger seat tells me when I'm going too slow or too fast.
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>> Nothing in my car does things by default. They all do what I set them
>> to do. I'm in charge.
I can believe it. I'm a great reader of instruction books, but the 500 or so pages of the Mitsubishi MMCS Multi Communication System were too much for me, Hence the default behaviour of quite a few things I haven't thought of, presumably.
Among the things I have stumbled across are how to change the intermittent wipe settings from auto to variably timed, whether the lights stay on after switch off and for how long, the way the indicator stalk works and the noise that accompanies the flashing, the setting for the going-round-corners lights. You'd have fun with it, I'm sure.
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>> Nothing in my car does things by default. They all do what I set them
>> to do. I'm in charge.
>>
Which is why I said you may be a big fan of dehumidifiers except the one in your car.
>> The one in my car dehumidifies the air coming into my car.
>>
Where does the air in your house come from?
>> It doesn't dehumidify the air that's already in my car.
It will if you choose to so, assuming your car is not equipped with a cheapo pseudo CC system.
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Firstly ventilate. Secondly. Does she heat the property?
As a part of our work we fit Positive pressure fan units. They are fan units that generally sit on the rafters in the roofspace in a central location and draw into the property the dryer air that is in the roofspace and distribute it around the house/bungalow. They work very well indeed keeping the air moving and thus preventing moisture/condensation on surfaces, mould and those dreadful musty smells. Believe me they work. I have just fitted one here at home three weeks ago. If you wish I can send you a leaflet and pics of my own installation.
Regards, Martin.
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>> I have
>> just fitted one here at home three weeks ago. If you wish I can send
>> you a leaflet and pics of my own installation.
>>
www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/key-choices/heating/ventilation-options
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Have you checked whether the unit already has a hose outlet?
I have an ebac unit and it comes with such an outlet as an option.
Last edited by: car4play on Mon 10 Dec 12 at 17:57
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Speaking as a chartered surveyor she should do the following:
1. Improve the insulation in the room.
2. Improve the ventilation to this room and other moisture producing rooms (kitchen).
3. Improve the heating.
4. Dry her clothing in a more controlled manner.
5. Ensure there is no rising or penetrating dampness problem which is introducing moisture into the room or house.
Of course, not all of this will be possible or cheap, but together they will solve the condensation problem. A dehumidifier is coming at the problem from the wrong direction.
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Mon 10 Dec 12 at 19:40
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>> Of course, not all of this will be possible or cheap, but together they will solve the condensation problem. A dehumidifier is coming at the problem from the wrong direction.
I will agree with you Sir in part, but it is a brave statement to say that, "Together they WILL solve the Condensation problem." You are quite correct regarding dehumidifiers. An overrated piece of kit if ever there was one.
To those that have no experience (whether professional or otherwise) of positive pressure units I would respectfully suggest that you try them. Trust me. Think about the blurb then the logic behind it. They work. I don't make them. I only fit them. No complaints thus far.
Regards...............MD.
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Having lived in Hong Kong we have 3 dehumidifiers, we ran them pretty much constantly for 2 years and their tanks needed emptying about once every 2 days in a 2000sqft apartment. Ambient humidity was generally around 90% and the dehumidifiers could keep it down to 60% or thereabouts in our apartment.
All of our dehumidifiers have a drain option but the tanks were sufficient in our experience. I can't comment on the cost to run these but it was far lower than using the air conditioning (maybe 1/4 the cost) in this environment and together with tower fans kept the place very comfortable (OK, so we needed the aircon when the outside temp was in the 30s). We generally didn't open windows mainly due to the pollution.
In the OP's case I'd leave the bathroom door open and place the dehumidifier in the hallway or adjacent room. Remember that windows need to be closed or you're just dehumidifying the whole world...
We had no problems with mildew in HK (whilst many others did) so I recon the technology is effective.
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"Remember that windows need to be closed or you're just dehumidifying the whole world..."
Possibly in Hong Kong but here the humidity outside is likely to be lower than in a steamy bathroom. - Open the window and turn off the de-humidifier!
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Well it arrived this morning just a bog-standard 10lt model, bit smaller than I imagined, and it`s been running from about 10ish. I`ve asked her to keep me updated with its performance so that I can compare the views expressed on here, then I may get one myself! ;-)
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Dehumidifiers - Robin O'Reliant
