Gerard Depardieu has renounced his French citizenship and chosen to become a Russian citiien.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20896894
If you could change your nationality which country would you choose? I am happy to stay British but I know there are a lot on here who think the country has gone to the dogs, so interested to know where they would go given the chance.
p.s having been to Moscow once I think Mr Depardieu might miss the French food if he had to stay there.
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>> If you could change your nationality which country would you choose? I am happy to
>> stay British but I know there are a lot on here who think the country
>> has gone to the dogs, so interested to know where they would go given the
>> chance.
Is this changing one's nationality or place of residence?
Or both?
Perhaps French/ France?
Italy/Italian?
Switzerland/Swiss?
I think I could cope with any of the above, without looking further afield.
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"Is this changing one's nationality or place of residence?"
I think for the purposes of the post we have to say both.
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I'd gofer England - but as it was 50 years ago, it doesn't do a lot for me these days though,
which is why I hide away down ere.
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Time travel not an option!
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I'm sure the doctor would have something to say on that matter.
^_^
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>> Time travel not an option!
>>
Why not? I moved to Wales.
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Is there anywhere that they don't knock off old people that have the misfortune to go into hospital?
I suppose the choice would depend partly on how much money you have. Even Russia is probably OK if you have plenty; but I suspect Gerard isn't going to spend too much time there.
I suppose the fact that I'm still here means I still have hope for it.
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France. Georgia. Sweden. Norway.
But I expect I'll stay here until retirement. Then I'd like a pad here (Earls' Court perhaps, small apartment in West London in any case), and a country property one abroad, Languedoc or Vendeé being the favoured options at the moment. Will need a VW Phaeton to get there and back of course. ;-)
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I'm British and would never wish to change that. I am proud of it, even if I am not proud of some of the others.
As to where I live, that changes all the time, probably always will. Until I can't make the airplane steps anymore.
I've never found a country which satisfies every need or want, so its different places for different things for me.
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Somewhere in the southern hemisphere.
What with the looming war coming up between Israel and Iran, I wouldn't be surprised if they nuke each other soon then the northern hemisphere will be a nuke fall out zone (provided no one else has nuked themselves).
In all fairness, I probably would have been a very proud British person 50 odd years ago (if I was born then) but these days and the way this country is going there isn't very much here for me or my family in the future.
The only thing holding me back is that I have a good job that is surprisingly stable.
And don't get me started on this coalition, recession. austerity yardy yardy.
when was the last time the coalition talked of long term plans and economic growth giving the populous some sort of hope ?
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>> Somewhere in the southern hemisphere.
>>
>> What with the looming war coming up between Israel and Iran, I wouldn't be surprised
>> if they nuke each other soon then the northern hemisphere will be a nuke fall
>> out zone (provided no one else has nuked themselves).
>>
Read Nevil Shute's "On the Beach". Australia will be fine. :)
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I am told that New Zealand is very much like UK was 40 years ago. Friends of mine can afford to live there solely on a 40 years UK work retirement pension.
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Even though I'm not rich I did change my nationality.
I came to UK as Indian and then after 6 years I took British citizenship. As India does not allow dual citizenship, I had to give up Indian citizenship. That did not bother me much because
* I got "Overseas Citizen of India" status which means I have a life long visa for India with very few minor restrictions.
* I can get back Indian citizenship anytime after spending 1-yr in India (but I've to give up British citizenship for that).
* Having British passport means I no longer have to apply/pay for visa while travelling to European countries.
* Being able to live and work in any EU country seemed as a good backup plan
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France. Specifically, Paris. More specifically, NAP - Neuily/Auteuil/Passy - the nicest residential areas. I would find the move very easy and congenial, furthermore I would be able to use some of the excellent services offered by my pension company which, as a UK resident, are denied me. But she doesn't agree and, after 50 years, a divorce would be difficult. Merde.
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I am long gone. But I will always be a British citizen, specifically English - I know it's just an accident of birth but I don't see how you can become other than what you are.
Cecil Rhodes was right when he said 'Always remember you were born an Englishman and have won first prize in the lottery of life'.
So there you are. (Hums a couple of lines from 'We Comes Up From Somerset, where the cider apples grow').
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I could have happily moved to, and become an Australian citizen 20 or 30 years ago, but happy and proud to remain British as all my support networks are here.
No other country comes into the equation.
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My sister is now definately coming back to the UK, she said there is a richness to British life that you dont get over there and she wants her boys to grow up here.
She reckons Australia is like a posh Milton Keynes - orderly and tidy but utterly souless with a rather one dimensional culture. Apparently food is expensive too although child benefit is high - $800 every 4 weeks in Adelaide.
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>> Apparently food is expensive
She is going to have a really really nasty shock back here then.
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I'd be happy in a number of places I've visited - France, Germany, Austria, Belgium, Switzerland and the such like - not for me Scandinavia, Malta or Cyprus at a push, probably not Greece. US for certain - either New England or FLorida, Canada much the same - maybe Ireland...wherever I lay my crash helmet..
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Lived in the UK a long time.I have kept my Dutch passport and nationality.Didn't see the point changing.I settle anywhere if I have to.
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>>She is going to have a really really nasty shock back here then.<<
Not really, she is here now and made that remark after food shopping at Tesco :-/
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Really? I am well surprised, must have gone up a a lot down there.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 4 Jan 13 at 19:01
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The Aussie dollar has appreciated a lot against the pound. Come down a bit since but still high.
Cost of living London v. Sydney -
goo.gl/8H2FA
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>> The Aussie dollar has appreciated a lot against the pound. Come down a bit since
>> but still high.
When it comes to moving home (as opposed to vacation) you shouldnt convert currency, its not valid.
>>
>> Cost of living London v. Sydney -
>>
>> goo.gl/8H2FA
Interesting, but the key parts are
Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) UK 2,000.00, Aus 2,790.01 £ +39.50 %
Local Purchasing Power in Sydney is 21.90% higher than in London
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>
>> When it comes to moving home (as opposed to vacation) you shouldnt convert currency, its
>> not valid.
Unless you're retired...with all your wordly wealth and income denominated in GBP.
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>> >
>> >> When it comes to moving home (as opposed to vacation) you shouldnt convert currency,
>> its
>> >> not valid.
>>
>> Unless you're retired...with all your wordly wealth and income denominated in GBP.
yeah true , you need to be earning local rates. I always think retiring abroad is a really bad idea.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 4 Jan 13 at 19:44
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>> The Aussie dollar has appreciated a lot against the pound. Come down a bit since
>> but still high.
>>
>> Cost of living London v. Sydney -
>>
>> goo.gl/8H2FA
>>
The summary there says:
Consumer Prices in Sydney are 17.80% higher than in London
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Sydney are 14.44% higher than in London
Rent Prices in Sydney are 9.66% higher than in London
Restaurant Prices in Sydney are 8.77% higher than in London
Groceries Prices in Sydney are 31.74% higher than in London
Local Purchasing Power in Sydney is 21.90% higher than in London
So the cost of living in Sydney is 17% higher than in London, ...
but ...
.... Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) in Sydney is nearly 40% higher
meaning Sydney wins overall by over 20%.
Zero was right after all.
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I have ze friend who lives ... ere: goo.gl/maps/hYLxx
I've walked around the local area (via streetview) and it is like MK :(
But, Australia is a continent, so there must be some nice areas for a Dog to live.
I've often imagined myself in/out in the bush with the Abo's cooking veggie bangers on an open fire.
:}
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>> with the Abo's cooking veggie bangers on an open fire.
Bits of singed bandicoot with the fur still on more likely Perro...
My youngest is in Tasmania hugging trees. Or she was until the place caught fire. She has retreated to the coast though so is all right thank goodness (herself got a text today to that effect).
One of her associates has been living up a tree for a year or two like a fakir up a pole. I hope her tree is spared by the flames although to be quite honest I think they are all wasting their time.
I liked Australia a lot although I only saw the populous eastern seaboard and not all that much of that. But I thought the culture side was all right. The Aussies value their short history and are proud of it. Every little town has its museum.
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Northern California for me. At the moment i still have my health so can backpack/kayak in summer, ski in winter, lovely coast line, proper seasons and some real wilderness, like Knoydart, only larger . drier and with coyotes and the odd mountain lion.
Having spent a lot of time there these past few years, I have found the people I come into contact with incredibly friendly, although some people are narrow minded, racist, sexist, homo phobes.
Sadly, i can think of several people where I live in N Yorks of the same mentality, which does sadden me.
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>> although some people are narrow minded, racist, sexist, homo phobes.
The southern states will be worse for this - Red Neck country. I'd have thought California was not so bad - although you mention northern. I know central (near San Francisco) because that is where my brother lives.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 4 Jan 13 at 21:52
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When I say 'some' I mean a very tiny minority.
Point Reyes National Coastline just north of SF is stunning, but then so are many parts of the SW Coast Path which I have backpacked in its entirety. N Calif is a big place, sufficient to satisfy most of my needs, but deciding whether I could ever give up British Citizenship would be the million dollar question.
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>> but deciding whether I could ever give up British Citizenship would be the million dollar question.
Whether you could get US citizenship depends on many things as you will know. My brother worked for many many years on a Green Card and eventually went for citizenship. He is also married to an American.
I've never looked into what it entailed because I wouldn't move to America. Could have easily got a job over there years ago. As could others in IT like Zero or Smokie.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 4 Jan 13 at 22:08
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>> Point Reyes National Coastline just north of SF is stunning, but then so are many parts of the SW Coast Path >>
I love California, or at least the bits I have experienced from San Diego up to Fort Bragg.
I shall have no qualms about settling there if/when the time comes.
>> could ever give up British Citizenship would be the million dollar question.
>>
Dual-citizenship is allowed by both countries.
And a million dollars (or $500,000 in a targeted employment area) will buy you the right to live there.
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>> I love California, or at least the bits I have experienced from San Diego up
>> to Fort Bragg.
>> I shall have no qualms about settling there if/when the time comes.
>> Dual-citizenship is allowed by both countries.
At the insistence of the Jewish lobby, the yanks would love to abolish it. Try telling the immigration service you want to be a citizen of North Korea and the USofA and see where that gets you.
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One of my longest serving pals upped sticks and lives here. Cheapy, cheapy cheap cheap.
Has a TukTuk...needs a clutch every month and costs him £1.50 at a roadside repairer !
Wouldn't fancy the chances in a tsunami, though.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=miVZCCBI3Wo
Was 34 degrees on Christmas Day......too hot in Summer so he's also got an old farmhouse in northern Bulgaria which he's doing up. Lives there in Summer.
We were sat one evening in atraffic free back street in old Bruges having an evening drink outside. An elegant looking Alfa rolled quietly up the street and stopped opposite us. The well dressed driver got out and opened a pair of high doors closing off an archway and drove in. I could see a fairly large area with a nice, well tended garden. No doubt he lived in the adjoining house or flat.
Ideal life...cafes and shops within yards of his front door, no parking problem, no traffic noise or hooliganismus taking place.
Suit me fine...if I had Lud's sort of money !
Ted
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>> some people are narrow minded, racist, sexist, homo phobes.
Just like here you mean?
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As I said in my post AC, yes, just like here, even in a smallish community such as mine where many of the residents have lived all their lives...which explains a lot.
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>> As I said in my post AC, yes, just like here
Sorry ll, didn't spot that bit... but those characteristics can be found virtually everywhere, not always just in a minority.
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SWMBO and I are discussing this at the moment, and contemplating a potential move overseas in the coming years. Only problem being, we can't agree whereabouts!
Some good friends of ours went to Australia (Sydney) about a year ago and they are having a blast. I would go tomorrow, but SWMBO wouldn't. Reverse this for the US. Europe is made more complex by the debt issues. We both like Italy, but economically it's very iffy.
Maybe we will agree in time to actually do something about it :-)
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Well I'm British and proud of it, and don't want to live anywhere else. (I'd rather be living somewhere rural rather than London, mind you).
If I had to go elsewhere, I would choose Ireland. I could come to terms with it, having Irish ancestry and all that, but at heart I would always feel British.
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What difference does it make what nationality anybody is,we are all children of this planet.
Used to go to Ireland regulary Dublin and Belfast where the ports.Why the Irish still fight each other is beyond me should have been one nation years ago.
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>> Why the Irish still fight each other is beyond me should have been one nation years ago.
Religion is the main 'excuse' I think you'll find.
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>> >> Why the Irish still fight each other is beyond me should have been one
>> nation years ago.
>>
>> Religion is the main 'excuse' I think you'll find.
Lloyd George's fault.
Another English Welshman!
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Well Dutchie, most of them do want to be one nation - an Irish nation.
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Not true I'm afraid. Most in the North (around 75%) want to remain part of the UK and most in the South are mainly indifferent at best to the issue. They would theoretically perhaps like a united Ireland but not at the cost of more strife or economic turmoil. One Ireland is just not an issue south of the border.
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>> Not true I'm afraid. Most in the North (around 75%) want to remain part of
>> the UK
and most of the UK are ashamed of them and want nothing to do with them.
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>> What difference does it make what nationality anybody is,we are all children of this planet.
>>
>> Used to go to Ireland regulary Dublin and Belfast where the ports.Why the Irish still
>> fight each other is beyond me should have been one nation years ago.
It's not the Irish fighting each other Dutchie. It's the Irish fighting the British. Ulster is largely populated by people descended from Scots immigrants. Their loyalty is to the British crown wheras the majority of the rest of the island (and the minority in Ulster) see themselves as Irish. There's a long history of discrimination against the ethnic Irish in Ulster, particularly in jobs and housing.
Religion is merely one aspect of a gaping cultural divide.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 6 Jan 13 at 09:37
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Ulster is largely populated by people descended from Scots immigrants
Sounds as though it would be a good freebie to bundle in with Scotland?
:)
and where did most of the Falklanders come from originally?
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>> It's not the Irish fighting each other Dutchie. It's the Irish fighting the British. Ulster
>> is largely populated by people descended from Scots immigrants. Their loyalty is to the British
>> crown wheras the majority of the rest of the island (and the minority in Ulster)
>> see themselves as Irish.
At what point does one accept the situation though?
100 years?
200 years?
300 years?
Should I be rebelling against the Normans?
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>> At what point does one accept the situation though?
>>
>> 100 years?
>>
>> 200 years?
>>
>> 300 years?
>>
>> Should I be rebelling against the Normans?
Do you mean the Ulster loyalists accepting that they're Irish?
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>> Do you mean the Ulster loyalists accepting that they're Irish?
>>
I think there should come a time when you accept what's what.
Gibraltar, Falklands, Northern Ireland....have been like it for hundreds of years, so leave it as it is.
If the democracy there says otherwise, which in Northern Ireland's case is heading for a change when eventually there will be more Catholics than Protestants..then so be it. As the majority in NI currently still want British rule, so be it.
How far back should we go in history to right wrongs, it'd be a bit different if it had just happened, or was within a life time.
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>> How far back should we go in history to right wrongs, it'd be a bit
>> different if it had just happened, or was within a life time.
Ulster's problem is that the wrongs are almost certainly ongoing. They were absolutely manifest until very recently with discrimination in jobs, housing etc.
Until Patrick is treated the same as William the other stuff will continue/
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NI ultimately comes down to the people who consider themselves the "have nots", who blame the "haves" for all their ills. Sometimes they call them Protestants or Catholics, sometimes they call them English or Irish. Sometimes the "Have nots" are simply the "Want mores".
Mostly they just mean "someone else who is to blame for everything I don't like about my life".
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>> Until Patrick is treated the same as William the other stuff will continue/
Actually Bromptonaut my impression is that a great effort was made over some years in the eighties and nineties, at great cost, to ensure equality in the job market, with some success. I think some of the big industrial employers like Gallaher and Harland & Wolff tried to employ more Catholics. But with a minority, well placed in the state apparatus perhaps, trying to turn the clock back there's always the chance of more trouble.
These angers and resentments smoulder below the surface even through long uneventful, apparently peaceful periods. It doesn't take much to fan them into flame.
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>> Do you mean the Ulster loyalists accepting that they're Irish?
They know very well that they are Irish. They know very well that they aren't 'English'. It's an amazing place, simultaneously stimulating and dispiriting, charming and ugly, welcoming and spine-chilling. It's our very own bit of the third world. Chucking bricks and bottles and setting things on fire is dangerous but in those parts it just passes for horseplay. Needless to say most people don't give much of a toss how many times a week the union flag flies over the town hall. But some do, some do, and they are an assertive bristling lot.
The Irish republic sees all this as embarrassing and inconvenient. It wants nothing to do with Northern Irish extreme republicanism. Naturally there are some sympathisers, old IRA men and their political friends. But they are few and no one loves them. It costs us a lot too, our oldest colony, and often makes us look as bad as we sometimes have been historically. We still tend to be clumsy there, can't seem to get it right.
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We've taken (early) retirement and moved to Austria (no kangaroos here!), but we're not planning to give up British citizenship. I believe that after 10 years we can apply for Austrian citizenship, but can't see any reason to do so. Which reminds me, I need to chop off an arm and a leg in order to renew my British passport ;-)
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Austria (no Kangaroos) is an unusual expat destination, what made you choose that?
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>> Austria (no Kangaroos) is an unusual expat destination, what made you choose that?
>>
Been coming here for years - SWMBO came for the first time 50 years ago, I first came in 1976. Good way of life, lots of fresh air and subsequent outdoor activities, relatively low property prices. Cost of living in many ways is lower, although motoring is a bit swings & roundabouts - fuel cost is cheap, being around the same numeric value in euros per litre as pounds in the UK, but cars themselves are expensive. My tax & insurance, paid as one figure to the insurance company, is €2000 per annum (Saab 9-5 Aero estate), well over double what it would it cost in the UK, perhaps 3 times. And that isn't fully comp, it's a weird "half comprehensive" version that they have here, meaning it doesn't cover any accidental damage I cause. But the big difference is that it's the car that's insured here, so that anyone can drive my car and likewise, I can drive any other car as long as it's Austrian. It's quite common to lend your car to friends here!
And not so unusual as a destination, in our area at least there are around 25 couple/families where at least one of the adults is from the UK (some are married to Austrians returning home). And those are just our immediate circle of acquaintances, there are another group in a nearby large village (around 10 families at least), and others in our immediate area that we occasionally get to hear about. A lot of them are here for the skiing, but we stick to langlauf (cross country) skiing, which we can virtually do from the house - although we are surrounded by green fields atm, a fortnight of rain has taken its toll!!
Last edited by: Mike H on Sun 6 Jan 13 at 14:07
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Good timing. Price of passport just reduced by £5 to £72.50 Bargain!
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Back to the OP - I, along with millions of other Brits, have tried rural France for a few years, but could never live there permanently. Too hard to get stuff done, too many grumpy locals, and the economy is on skid row.
Tried Denmark but it left me cold ;-)
Had a fantastic few years in Belgium 20-odd years ago, but it's sure to have changed now...
So here I am in NZ. If you can handle the slight sense of isolation it's a very liveable place.
In those bizarre "quality of life" surveys that pop-up a couple of times each year Melbourne is always very near the top, vying with Zurich IIRC? Other Aussie cities also do well, as does Copenhagen... But i best most of us don't want a city life in perpetuity?
And whatever the surveys say, Australia has become VERY expensive...
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I daresay life can be pretty pleasant just about anywhere, if you have more money than the majority of the population.
As long as there is a basic rule of law, otherwise you become a target.
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>> And whatever the surveys say, Australia has become VERY expensive...
Property in particular. Our friends are renting what is admittedly a very nice house, a 20 minute tram ride from the centre of Sydney. It is costing them nearly £3k (Sterling) a month. If they decide to stay at the end of the current two year "project" (his employer has already offered to make his job permanent and support his permanent visa application), they are going to end up with a sizeable mortgage if they choose to buy, even after selling and releasing the equity on their house here.
I like the way these guys have done it. 2 year project to see if it works for them with no pressure, and with open options at the end. At the moment they are very heavily leaning towards staying.
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I chose Sweden a few years back now.
Basically I wanted an easy relaxing live, and that's just what I've got. Property prices in the countryside (and not up in the arctic circle) are incredibly low, which means the requirement to earn lots of money is also low. The roads are near deserted, as are the shops, and crime is very low. I mean, if I left my Ifor Williams trailer unlocked in full view on the front garden in the UK, how long would it stay there for?
But it does require quite a change in attitude when no one else is in a rush.
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A few years ago I nearly bought a flat in Clarens (suburb of Montreux - northern shore of Lake Geneva), though that didn't involve obtaining Swiss citizenship.
But for a foreigner the process was (and still is, as far as I know) incredibly convoluted and I got cold feet about the whole thing.
Looking back, I'm rather pleased it didn't happen. Despite the glorious location, the cleanliness and the high standard of living, I'm not sure how well I would have integrated with Swiss attitudes. There's also (as has been pointed out above) the question of support networks, family and so on, which have tied me more to the U.K. in recent years.
My philosophy now is to use my money for travel and foreign holidays.
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Dave, do you speak Swedish?
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>>Dave, do you speak Swedish?<<
No, he speaks Scouse.
:-D
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>> Dave, do you speak Swedish?
>>
Yes! Immigrants have free swedish lessons.
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>> Immigrants have free swedish lessons.
Cøøl!
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Most people in Sweden speak English anyway - isn't it?
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>> Most people in Sweden speak English anyway - isn't it?
>>
Yes, even the drunks on the tube. I only met 1 person in 5 months that didn't speak English.
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It would be the height of ignorance, and typically English, to emigrate and not learn the language of your new country. For example, most English migrants on the Costas of Spain. That most of your new hosts speak English would be no mitigation whatsoever. I imagine that the type of person who would do that would be the first to scream about an English Council publishing literature in Albanian and Punjabi.
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>> It would be the height of ignorance, and typically English, to emigrate and not learn
>> the language of your new country.
>>
Agreed, but when you move to a different country you have to hit the ground running, and it obviously hleps if you can make yourself easily understood from day 1. After 4 months in Stockholm I'd learnt to decode most of the PA announcements on Stockholm public transport, in the office the Swedes were being polite in conversation and pronouncing IKEA as in the UK i.e. eye-keer whereas I was being polite and pronouncing it the Swedish way i.e. ick-ear
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>> I mean, if I left my
>> Ifor Williams trailer unlocked in full view on the front garden in the UK, how
>> long would it stay there for?
This is one area where I don't think it is difficult to do better than the UK. The ingrained tendency for people to steal or vandalise stuff unless you actively prevent them from doing so seems to be a fact of life almost anywhere in this country. I've spent quite a bit of time in Germany, and I've seen new 911s, BMW "M" and Mercedes AMG models parked on the street outside houses or on the drive rather than garaged, and shops in urban areas with plate glass windows and no shutters down of a night. You just wouldn't see either here, and your first thought if you did would probably be that the owners were 'asking for it'.
I'm sure things do go walkies or get smashed up everywhere in the world, but I get the impression it is much more out of the ordinary in many countries than it is here. In Britain people almost think you are to blame for something getting stolen or wrecked if you haven't made the perp's life as difficult as you perhaps might have done if you'd maybe just thought about it a little more thoroughly.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 7 Jan 13 at 15:44
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There's a builders merchants near hear that's set back about 30 metres from the main road. And it has no fence around the yard!
There have been various reports of theft in the area, usually saws, generators etc, but also some large machinery. Tbh it's easy pickings for anyone looking, as so much stuff is left laying around. But it has to be said it's the usual culprits from Eastern Europe according to the Police.
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>> I've spent quite a bit of time in Germany, and I've seen new 911s, BMW "M" and Mercedes AMG models parked on the street outside houses or on the drive rather than garaged, and shops in urban areas with plate glass windows and no shutters down of a night. You just wouldn't see either here<<
Why do you reckon that is then DP?
I know what you mean though, I've been all over Germany, even to parts other beers natives haven't been, such as the Isle of Rügen, Peenemunde, Stettin (oh sorry, that's now in Poland!) + Wartburg, Dresden etc. etc. etc.
Is it just a case of broken Britain? is it to do with the high unemployment level? poor edumacation?
mess immigration?
I'm orf back to Espana before long, I'm just trying to decide on the Canaries or mainland Spain, luvly country,
lovely people, the ones we met anyway, this country has gorn down the pan IMO, shame.
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>> Why do you reckon that is then DP?
I suspect a part of it is the growing underclass who views anyone who works hard and wants to better themselves as "posh", and which is swelling quickly because the state provides it with everything it needs to live comfortably, while rewarding its rampant breeding with housing, extra benefits and so on. At the other end, you have a political class which is so completely out of touch with the realities of life, and so blatantly unaffected by the "tough decisions" it foists on everyone else that people are rapidly becoming disillusioned and frustrated.
As I said, I wouldn't for one minute suggest Germany (or anywhere) is crime free, but the best way I can put it is that people don't expect nice stuff to be ripped off or ruined, whereas in Blighty, they almost do. Unless they alarm it to the hilt and hide it from view.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 7 Jan 13 at 16:46
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>> suspect a part of it is the growing underclass who views anyone who works hard and wants to better themselves as "posh", and which is swelling quickly because the state provides it with everything it needs to live comfortably, while rewarding its rampant breeding with housing, extra benefits and so on<<
While I was watching last nights episode of Ripper Street, where gangs of youths controlled by a Fagin-like character roamed the streets thieving (and worse) I wondered if a somewhat similar situation could ever occur again in our cities - if things got bad enough.
Lo and behold, they were asking the self same question on Radio 4 early this morning.
So many ordinary working people from countries all over the world are suffering due to the economic situation,
and in the short term at least, there doesn't seem to be much prospect of any improvement,
even the politicians chant the same mantra of more and more austerity - for the ordinary working people,
while the fat cats and bureaucrats continue, as ever, to eat from the bowl of plenty.
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>> even the politicians chant the same mantra of more and more austerity - for the
>> ordinary working people,
>> while the fat cats and bureaucrats continue, as ever, to eat from the bowl of
>> plenty.
Oh yes. I've recently had the child benefit for my two daughters taken away (company car just tips me over), while reading about Justice Minister Helen Grant who is claiming £1,600 a month in parliamentary expenses for a London flat just 19 miles away from her £1.8 million house in Reigate, Surrey.
But at least we're all in this austerity together, right?
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>> company car just tips me over
So to get it back, the next company car will have lower BIK if you're careful in your selection ;-) But they'll probably move the goalposts for the BIK rates and the child benefit before your BMW needs replacing.
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>> So to get it back, the next company car will have lower BIK if you're
>> careful in your selection ;-) But they'll probably move the goalposts for the BIK rates
>> and the child benefit before your BMW needs replacing.
Yes, the bands move for 2013/14 and again for 14/15, so an extra 1% of the vehicle price is subject to tax each year.
In 2015/16 the 3% diesel surcharge is allegedly being withdrawn, but I'm not holding my breath that this withdrawal won't be reversed, or that something else will take its place. As you say, the goalposts constantly move.
The only way I could get the cost down on the current list and keep something of a reasonable size for the family is to go for a Prius. 320d is comfortably the second cheapest in BIK terms.
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>> 320d is comfortably the second cheapest in BIK terms.
But not list price. A Mazda6 saloon 2.2 diesel is probably a lot cheaper overall. Emissions as low as 104g/km and a lower list price. Might not be as well made or as much fun as the BMW 320d.
The Prius in the higher spec models is not cheap I found - the BIK rate is low but list price is high. As were the monthly lease costs. My Passat CC GT with the 170PS engine was less per month in terms of impact on take home pay.
It will be interesting to see what cars have stop-start and cylinder deactivation in the VW range in about 18 months time when I order my next car. Shame the new Golf CC is not out until 2015.
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>> >> 320d is comfortably the second cheapest in BIK terms.
>>
>> But not list price. A Mazda6 saloon 2.2 diesel is probably a lot cheaper overall.
>> Emissions as low as 104g/km and a lower list price. Might not be as well
>> made or as much fun as the BMW 320d.
Sorry, I should have said the cheapest in terms of the list available to me.
No Mazdas on there at all. Choice was BMW, Audi, VW and MINI (the latter are completely useless as family transport), and the Prius which I drove and didn't like. Couldn't get comfy in the A4, the Passat was a very close second, but not as compelling in the base spec 140PS guise I was being offered, as I'm sure it is in GT 170 trim like yours.
Our fleet team are currently in the process of renegotiating our contract with a new lease company, so perhaps the list will improve next time around, although I suspect (hope) not to still be here when the car comes up for renewal. This gig was never long term, more a good name to have on the CV for a couple of years.
Cheers
DP
Last edited by: DP on Tue 8 Jan 13 at 09:24
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Our choice of cars improved considerably after I ordered my Mazda in 2007. Weeks later.
At one time we could have almost anything apart from convertibles. Then we went with just ones from the Ford group of cars (so Volvo , Jaguar included) and Vauxhall (and Saab). So I got a Mondeo. Fast forward a few years and they had added a few like Toyota (and so Lexus), Mazda... and that was about it.
The irony is/was the above as all from a company offering other cars to other companies but not ours. We have switched again and we can have practically anything you'd want if it's inside your budget - even a convertible.
I of course refer to people with benefit cars... if you are business needs only then you are very limited and would probably end up with a Skoda Octavia 1.6 diesel :-)
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Cop hold of this DP, it wont do much to improve your economic situation, but it'll make y'all feel good:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gXE3Z2USLU
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>> But at least we're all in this austerity together, right?
>>
How would you fund the £695billion that the Govt spend annually?
static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/1/8/1357647561676/Benefit-spending-graphic-001.jpg
www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/jan/08/uk-benefit-welfare-spending
Last edited by: John H on Tue 8 Jan 13 at 15:30
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Looks a nice place where you live Dog and in the country side why change? I'm to set in my ways now unless there is a lottery win can't see me moving.
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>>Looks a nice place where you live Dog and in the country side why change?<<
I'll answer that with one word Dutchie - weather!!
;)
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when i was in south germany (many times), there was a public chess area with chess pieces about 1 foot high.
these were stored in unlocked bench seats.
people would turn up. take the pieces out. play a game and then put the pieces neatly away afterwards.
street corner ciggies machines to gobble up loose change for the smokers.
public grillplatz (barbeque areas) for anyone to use. just add coal and your food. always left clean and tidy after use.
i only mention these as here in the uk all of the above would be smashed up in 5 minutes.
the mentality here 'i cant enjoy it so no one else will' certanly rules.
great shame really.
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>> vandalise stuff unless you actively prevent them from doing so seems to be a fact of life
Agreed.
If one goes down the back end of Rio then absolutely anything will be nicked. So if they can steal the public telephone, they will. However, simply smashing it up and cutting the wires and making it unusable wouldn't occur to them.
In San Fran, and I mean in the city, I regularly leave the car with the roof down. Again, they might steal the car but they wouldn't vandalise it.
It seems to be a European/UK thing to vandalise.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 13 Jan 13 at 03:25
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Like Dog, I'd like to leave the UK in the near future - might me a mid-term sort of plan. Our country of choice is likely to be Greece if they don't get too much worse.
We'd be looking for a simpler, less stressful life so would just get by. And if we rented out the UK house we'd probably have enough to live comfortably anyway. No mortgage now and no plan to have a mortgage on any overseas property either.
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>>The ingrained tendency for people to steal or vandalise stuff unless you actively prevent them from doing so seems to be a fact of life almost anywhere in this country.
For the last several years all significant house upgrades in my area have started with very large fences being erected around the site plus "This scaffold is alarmed" signs.
We get white truck man patrolling the road several times a day to raid skips on drives with no enquiry before they start.
This is in an up market area not a slum so I would i hate to live in a "bad" area.
I contrast this with a friends experience in Tokyo. He left his bag on the circle line train. On enquiring of the station staff he was told " Could you please wait here........and after looking at his watch the staff guy said the train will be back in xx min & yy seconds and you can recover you bag.
Of course the bag was stiil where he left on the train when it returned on time.
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When I began visiting my northern CA friends several years ago I was amazed at their lack of security. Living in the suburbs just outside a nice town they regularly leave their back door ajar all day whilst at work so their dogs (2 tinies and a proper dog) can come and go as they please. Cars parked outside are left unlocked. And they often leave their double garage roller shutter open all night. It is full of power tools, skis, expensive dry suits, kayaks, beer etc that would be gone in hours in a comparable area here in the UK. Expensive winter tyres on spare rims are just piled outside under a tarp. Neighbours leave log piles at the bottom of their drives. They would simply disappear overnight, even in rural N Yorks...the 'wessies' would have them, going the same way as sheep and quad bikes.
Other crimes a'plenty, but theft from domestic property is few and far between.
Last edited by: legacylad on Mon 7 Jan 13 at 22:54
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>>Other crimes a'plenty, but theft from domestic property is few and far between. <<
probably because unauthorised entry to the premises is likely to end in a hail of bullets?
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>> would have them, going the same way as sheep and quad bikes.
>> Other crimes a'plenty, but theft from domestic property is few and far between.
Cos they are too busy gunning down the kids in schools.
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Very low levels of theft in some of the Middle Eastern countries. Was normal practice to leave wallet/keys on the beach whilst swimming in Dubai, or jackets/handbags on chairs in cafes.
Took some South African friends out to brunch one day and they were flabbergasted by this lax-ness!
SWMBO once left a couple of grand (of regional currencies) in used notes in a brown envelope on a chair in a hotel bar (err that sounds bad doesn't it) whilst we went for dinner in a nearby but offsite restaurant. Didn't realise we'd left it behind until after dessert. Ran back to hotel but it had been handed in and was waiting for us behind the bar :-)
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Bout 20 years ago, I was in Tenerife for 3 months - Jan, Feb, and March, all on my tod.
I had a money belts to carry around my worldly goods while out walking in the wilds above Los Cristianos.
Well, one day (I cant remember why) but I decided to leave the money belt - stuffed full of, eh, money, 'hidden' among the folds of the shower curtain in the bathroom.
I had to larf to myself (and still do) when I came back from a 4 hour hike to find the two cleaning ladies had bin in to do what cleaning ladies do, and there was my blimmin money belt hanging there from the shower curtain rail - untouched!
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I remember when I first came here my then neighbour asked if I'd been to the lake. When I said I didn't even know there was one, he offered to show me. We walked down through the forest and ended up at the most beautiful and tranquil lake, complete with a little jetty, a changing room, and an open fronted log cabin with a bbq place in front. There was also a little rowing boat for anyone to use, and people had left various chairs and logs around. Not a soul in sight, and no litter anywhere.
He asked me if they had this sort of thing in England. After I'd stopped laughing, I explained that if there was, it would be full of litter, dog muck, and burned out cars. And that there was no way the log cabin would still be standing, either destroyed by fire or just stolen. He looked surprised and asked why any one would do such a thing, and ruin it for everyone else.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 13 Jan 13 at 03:24
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Isn't Sweden a bit cold though?
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...asks the man from the palm-fringed beaches of South Yorkshire.
};---)
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North Nottinghamshire, actually - "Gateway to the Dukeries" no less!
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>>He asked me if they had this sort of thing in England. After I'd stopped laughing, I explained......
>>.....He looked surprised and asked why any one would do such a thing, and ruin it for everyone else.
An example for him. On second thoughts maybe not :-(
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-20946122
"A dinghy used to rescue people from cars and narrow boats during recent floods in Oxfordshire has been stolen.
Narrow boat owner Paul Otter used his blue and orange fibreglass rowing boat as the only safe way of accessing 17 moored boats at Long Wittenham.
He said the theft of the 10ft boat, worth only about £20,......."
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Back in December 2005, my wife, our daughter and I visited my SiL and her partner in Tasmania. OK, SiL had only been over there a few years, but all of her correspondence had been about looking for work, sorting out visas, applying for nationality status etc; nowhere had she mentioned the sheer beauty of the place. We were only on the small island (about the same size as Ireland) for some 3 weeks, but were amazed at the variety of landscapes from Wineglass Bay on the east side to the temperate rainforest on the northwest.
The front window of SiL’s house near Hobart looked out over the River Derwent and, from the opposite bank, Mount Wellington rose up, frequently framed by the weather fronts coming in.
On our way to Queenstown and the rainforest area, we passed the Tarraleah hydroelectric scheme, pretty much in the middle of nowhere, and came across an old preserved construction worker’s hut. The hut was similar in dimensions to a shepherd’s hut and contained a kettle, water supply along with tea/coffee etc along with a notice inviting you to have a brew up. Now I’m sure Tasmania has its share of scumbags, but had such a facility been presented in England, the contents of the hut would long disappeared and the hut razed to the ground.
In 2005, you could have got about 2.4 Aussie dollars to the pound, but nowadays, it’s closer to 1.5. When estate agents leaflets came through the front door, we could scan through them and half-make plans for moving – but there’s no way that we could do that now!
Strangely, SiL and her bloke started to feel claustrophobic in Tazzy and last year moved to Kiama, some 50 miles south of Syndey and they, like us are saddened to see the devastation caused by the current bush fires in Tasmania.
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Tazzy is a great place, one of Nicoles family has a farm on the North coast, spent a week or two as a slightly aged Jackaroo, BUT its pretty backwards, and very claustrophobic in its social outlook. Could never live there.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 8 Jan 13 at 13:27
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Sounds ideal, coming out of Surrey.
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>> its pretty backwards, and very claustrophobic in its social outlook.
Aussies tend to say with a sort of twisted grin that Tasmanians are 'weird', in a similar mode to the way Americans talk about Texans. No doubt my youngest daughter will soon fill me in on the details provided she hasn't gone too native.
Apparently she was among the large number of people who retreated to the Tasman peninsula from the wildfires, and who were then taken to Hobart by ferry.
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"Aussies tend to say with a sort of twisted grin that Tasmanians are 'weird"
I guess it's a biological thing - everybody has to pick on somebody to peck at. A bit like the English view of the Welsh, or the Leicestershire view of Derbyshire ;-)
" its pretty backwards, and very claustrophobic in its social outlook."
Actually, I reckon my SiL would say that, whilst it's particularly true of Tasmania, it also applies to Australia as a whole. As an example, Australian T.V. only covers sporting events where Australia WINS - consequently, SiL didn't see very much of the London Olympics!
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One place we did visit in Australia was Murchison Falls inland from Sydney. An unfortunate young British man has just fallen to his death there. What is it that makes some people climb over the railings, go onto a slippery downsloping rock and try to peer over the edge? It isn't as if one can't see what the risks are, especially as there are notices, fences and so on to underline the point.
As a serious height-vertigo wimp I never do anything like that, especially as my balance when walking on edges and so on isn't as good as it once was. Herself has better balance being somewhat more abstemious than I am as well as fitter. She scared me witless a decade ago by standing with her back to the edge on the earth cliffs at Flamborough Head. The only time I've had a good look at puffins, diving into the sea far below and flying back up to their nests with beakfuls of sand eels, highly visible. On the other hand, walking on a suspended, swaying walkway in the rainforest canopy somewhere in NSW terrified her but not me. Strange but true.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 8 Jan 13 at 15:04
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I don't know which falls they were, but someone I once knew was spending a year in Australia etc. He climbed up some falls and slipped. He slipped/fell down the falls and smashed teeth and landed in the water. He needed reviving but survived the fall.
I have no idea why someone would take these risks.
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>> a suspended, swaying walkway in the rainforest canopy somewhere in NSW terrified her but not me. Strange but true.
Look, sorry to be boring and so on but this vertigo stuff has an interesting side. Another thing that scared herself but not me (although I admit it was quite stimulating) was a trip in a coalmine lift down a near-vertical slope and through and into a tunnel, one of several visits to tourist attractions we made in Australia. The lift car ran on rails but the slope was more than 45 degrees, and as it steepened into the dark mineshaft bit one felt one was being tipped forward out of the car against the safety bars.
I have come to the conclusion that I usually trust machines, but not so much my own tendency to fall off things. It's the same with cars. I feel fine with them but many other apparently rational people are terrified of them, in a permanent blue funk. I am almost tempted to say 'Go figure', but not quite. A chap has his standards.
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Same here. I get scared cleaning my gutters out, and I live in a bunglyhole.
The boss has no fear. That said, she did rather prove my point by deciding to clear a blockage on the windiest day of the year when I was at work. She fell off and broke her wrist quite badly.
Planes, helicopters, hot air balloons are not a problem for me but she hates flying and wouldn't get in a balloon basket.
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Heights don't bother me and nor does being underwater. Don't like caves though, unless they're underwater strangely, and then for some inexplicable reason they're ok. Can't be doing with the thought of all that weight of soil and rock being above me unless there's some water for it to splash into when it collapses (which I always know is certain and imminent when I go into a cave even if it has pre-historic drawings in it).
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I did some rugby union training I didn't like people piling on top of me when you had the ball.Rugby league is more open and you could see the person who gave you a smack.I have no fear of heights or water as long as I am in control.Took the daughter once on a rollercoaster in the States she was laughing I was scared stiff.
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>> I did some rugby union training I didn't like people piling on top of me
>> when you had the ball.Rugby league is more open
You should have released the ball when tackled.
Rugby League is a very emasculated form of Rugby Union.
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vertigo:
do you mean in the true sense of "dizziness"
or
the oft mistaken meaning "fear of heights" ?
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>> vertigo:
A widely adaptable word and concept whose meaning is usually apparent to an intelligent or literate individual.
>> oft mistaken meaning "fear of heights" ?
Codswallop, 'oft mistaken', really! One of the commonest meanings in general usage, if not the commonest. There's even a Hitchcock movie of that title in which the word has that meaning among others.
I thought I was the only person here who used this term to mean anything else indeed. Hey, JH, get offa my cloud...
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>>vertigo:
>>do you mean in the true sense of "dizziness"
Or perhaps " a long way from here"?
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Which country would you choose? - Duncan
