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Our town centre shopping mall Argos is moving to a Homebase (same company) shopping shed on a peripheral retail park. Is this a slippery slope?
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Argos are re-structuring their business. Leaning towards the on-line side of things from what I read - oddly, we have three Argos stores within easyish reach, two are on out of town spots and the other in a town centre location - all seem quite busy. Depends where your target audience is...
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We have two Argos stores nearby.... we also had 2 Jessops stores ten years ago... and then one.... and now none.
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"Argos has reported healthy sales growth as it successfully moves to click-and-collect online ordering."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21057345
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Lots of Homebase/Argos stores sharing retail park sites in various towns, imagine there are considerable cost savings to be made.
Seldom use Argos these days, Amazon take some beating and always helpful when a problem develops, usually replace the item, their suppliers must curse them.
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Doubtful. Argos business model is good for net (second most "hits" on web after Amazon) and the Home Retail Group is financially sound, no huge debt and still making (albeit smaller) profits, underperforming a bit maybe, but no basket case. They are reducing cost base, and combining space is a way.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 17:00
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>>Home Retail Group is financially sound,<<
Not surprising when you see what Homebase charge for most things. Will only visit as 'a place of last resort.' Sale items at 50% off can be marginally worthwhile.
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>> >>Home Retail Group is financially sound,<<
>>
>> Not surprising when you see what Homebase charge for most things. Will only visit as
>> 'a place of last resort.' Sale items at 50% off can be marginally worthwhile.
>>
+1
In the US bigger stores = lower consumer prices.
In the UK, bigger stores = higher prices...
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>> In the US bigger stores = lower consumer prices.
In the US Net is killing certain stores. Best Buy is in Basket Case state
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 17:10
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Argos has done reserve and collect for years - must be very popular. Who wants to go to a catalogue shop and find they have no stock. It will be a reason why PCWorld followed suit.
Jessops though will have been a good business model up until... well longer ago than ten years. I got my first digital camera in 2000 and had a few since. It might well have been from Jessops. But now there are so many models from just Nikon or Canon let alone all the others. And camera phones are decent.
So I can't see what their unique selling point was.
At the time of film cameras they probably did good trade, especially SLR related. But now they won't even stock all the popular lenses for a dSLR... so they order it in.... so you might as well buy online.
And then Amazon is not the cheapest. When I got my Lumix G2 in 2010 it was a lot cheaper at a Bolton camera store. So I got it there. And cash back too from Panasonic.
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Argos started life as the Green Shield stamps redemption shops back in the sixties. Once Tesco stopped issuing the stamps the game was up but the management skilfully changed the shops from redeeming goods for stamps to accepting payment for cash and business boomed.
If the managements is still half as good they should be able to adapt to the internet
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Argos sell all their outdated/unsold stock on ebay. Pretty slick.
Bought a watch that way - 25% off list...
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Use Argos quite a bit these days. We have one walking distance away, and its glued to the side of a homebase. Guess it opened 3 or so years ago.
I find that they are often pretty competitive on price - handy for last minute kids birthday presents for the endless flow of parties.
Nearly always reserve on line first.
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Argos have shared a site with Homebase here for a couple of years. The latter put in a mezzanine for all the fitted beds/baths/kitchen stuff and Argos moved into the freed up space.
Works well and is only place locally to stock Sodastream cartridges. Very different customer demographic to the town centre store which seems to be populated entirely by people ticking all the boxes for a parody of 'on the social'.
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My mum was going to buy a couple of second hand bedside tables at the local recyling shop before I went on Argos and found two brand new ones cheaper. Job done, good store, good prices, no reason it should fail so long as it stays in profit as it is.
She was also going to buy 3 stairgates at the recycling shop to contain the grandchildren and they were £5 cheaper each brand new from Asda. I keep telling her to shop around. Old people!
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>>I keep telling her to shop around. Old people!
<<
Oi! Watchit!!
:-D
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I said in the pub on Saturday I think Argos may go bust at some point. I think the general public are getting sick of poor quality goods sold at high prices.
By taking action now and reducing their over heads they might just survive.
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>> I said in the pub on Saturday I think Argos may go bust at some
>> point. I think the general public are getting sick of poor quality goods sold at
>> high prices.
>>
>> By taking action now and reducing their over heads they might just survive.
They were no where near bust. You were drinking too much
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Not yet no, but if they carry on like they are with too many shops in a declining market the rot will start to set. I assume by acting now they will avert any disaster. I am sure 10 years ago Jessops were booming.
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>> I am sure 10 years ago Jessops were booming.
Jessops were brought down by their market evaporating rather than anyone else doing it better / cheaper.
10 years ago, if you wanted to take photos of any sensible quality, you bought a camera. Today, you can do it with a decent mobile phone. Jessops core business simply no longer existed.
The market for DSLRs, lenses and accessories simply isn't big enough to sustain a big retailer like this.
Last edited by: DP on Tue 15 Jan 13 at 17:03
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>> The market for DSLRs, lenses and accessories simply isn't big enough to sustain a big retailer like this.
And you can get the lenses and accessories cheaper elsewhere. Go into a Jessops and they probably didn't have the lens. But their ability to hold stock made more complex when the number of lenses you might want went up. Not only the usual Nikon and Canon dSLR lenses to stock but also the new compact interchangeable lens cameras such as:
- Sony NEX
- Panasonic/Olympus micro four thirds
- Samsung
- Nikon 1
- Canon EOS M
A lot of lenses to hold in stock in case you wanted one. And of course there's multiple lenses for each. I'd love to justify the 14-140mm lens for micro four thirds for my Lumix G2.... but it is not necessary and I can have a holiday instead ;-) Nice to have but I'll hold off for now - it is still very expensive.
I should either start using my Sony dSLR again a bit or offer it for sale at a cheap price.
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>> I said in the pub on Saturday I think Argos may go bust at some
>> point. I think the general public are getting sick of poor quality goods sold at
>> high prices.
>>
>> By taking action now and reducing their over heads they might just survive.
>>
Argos are doing OK. Over the last couple of years a lot of their products have been well priced. I find them quite competitive.
They saw that they needed to change a few years back, and luckily did so before to much damage was done
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Maybe I just had bad luck, but I find the office furniture at VIking to be much cheaper and also of far better quality. I rarely rarely shop in Argos these days. Although I have Quality Save and B&Ms locally which are far cheaper and sell some similar stuff.
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HMV is next - not that surprising. Actually I am surprised they lasted this long.
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Already a thread about it, but according to the FT it has already happened. They tried to get into the entertainment market but it all came too late. They needed to stop relying on selling hard media about 5-6 years ago.
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Still only 'set to call in' so far as I can see.
Inevitable though.
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I like Argos but mostly for branded goods where if they aren't the cheapest then you don't buy.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 14 Jan 13 at 21:22
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Every Argos I've ever been in has been busy, always well staffed and quick to process customers. The immediate click-and-collect thing is their USP, several times I've located a last-minute present and bagsied it at a different store to my local one and collected it at leisure. I can't see them folding any time soon.
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Oye numero dos - I'm blooming old and I always shop around for everything.
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I used Argos recently. Click and reserve and I was pleasantly surprised to find they'd re-instated the pay-by-card machines they had many years ago.
Saves queuing with the great unwashed!
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It may be a risky assumption
That seaforpeepeople lack gumption
But they often select
Outlets soon to be decked
In their random bulimic consumption.
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You are William McGonagall and I claim my £5 :-)
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Nothing is more frustrating as going to a store a discovering it is not in stock (even when online site says available in nearest store).
All the brick and morter businesses (e.g. Argos, Currys etc.) have a stock problem. With 500+ stores, your forecast needs to be accurate. You may allocate stock in London but customers in Birmingham want to buy it and you don't have stock there. Result = lost sales and angry customers.
Online retailers like Amazon does not have this problem. All their stock is available everywhere. This is a huge advantage. Only problem with Amazon that you can't have it instantly and need to wait few days. Of course you can't feel it by hand before buying but then many people feel the product at stores and buy from web.
Most people don't really care about customer service. As long as correct product available at cheaper price, everyone will buy from there.
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>> Nothing is more frustrating as going to a store a discovering it is not in
>> stock
Argos has a great USP for a physical shop. You can check stock, reserve and travel there at your convenience. Their stock control is pretty good and its right 99% of the time.
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Many other brands adopted this model. Currys/PCW now offers same service.
However, often there are no stocks at nearby stores.
Even in Amazon, many items are marked as out of stock.
If something is not available to buy, why show them in the first place??
Do they think they can upsell by showing more expensive available stocks? I think it infuriates buyers instead.
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>> If something is not available to buy, why show them in the first place??
>>
>> Do they think they can upsell by showing more expensive available stocks? I think it
>> infuriates buyers instead.
To be fair many not in stock items are on back order and will be available again in a few days.
I may prefer that wait rather than go for a less than optimal substitute
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>>Argos has a great USP for a physical shop. You can check stock, reserve and travel there at your convenience. Their stock control is pretty good and its right 99% of the time.
I wonder why Homebase manage to get it so wrong?
I went to buy a new lavatory seat. They showed 36 of the type SWMBO wanted at my local branch. It took five staff half-an-hour to find one. While waiting I picked up a new smoke alarm, £4.26 (2 for £9.99) it said on the shelf. That took another member of staff ten minutes!
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Different experience the other day at Homebase.We bought a new sideboard deal was done in fifteen minutes.I don't mind Homebase B&Q is like a big warehouse never liked the shop.
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I care about customer service.I won't buy shoes on line or clothes .I like to go in a shop and try if it fits.Maybe we should all be buying more UK products to preserve jobs if such products are available or excist.
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The one thing that the recently failed shops (Woolworths, Game, Comet, Jessops, HMV) had in common was large debt (bequethed on them by the last management buy-out/capital venture acquisition) which became unsustainable with just a slight drop in trade. Argos are not in that position.
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>> Maybe we should all be buying more
>> UK products to preserve jobs if such products are available or excist.
Someone is trying that.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21023248
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Not easy to do is it.Top shop is British isn't all his stuff from abroad and the owner evades tax?
I sometimes think that we are a American state looking at sky news .(Fox)
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>> >> Maybe we should all be buying more
>> >> UK products to preserve jobs if such products are available or excist.
>>
>> Someone is trying that.
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21023248
>>
They should starve then. Half our food is imported and almost all fresh fruit and veg at this time of year..
I assume they will not be buying petrol from supermarkets - bought from Amsterdam,
or diesel (mostly imported)
or any newspaper - paper from Sweden
or Irish butter or beef
or peppers, grapefruit, bananas, sultanas , grapes, melons etc.
French wine is out of course as is brandy. much vodka etc.
They will of course buy no electrical goods, no mobile phones, computers, cars of any sort (no UK owned makers of volume cars), tyres -imported largely - or prawns.
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>> They should starve then. Half our food is imported and almost all fresh fruit and
>> veg at this time of year..
I expect they'll be able to find British produced frozen and preserved fruits and veg.
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"and almost all fresh fruit and veg at this time of year.."
Not so. Loads of British vegetables and fruit about.
All the following British grown fresh fruit and vegetables are available down you local supermarket right now.
potatoes
carrots
celeriac
fennel
parsnips
onions
swedes
cabbages
brussel sprouts
celery
water cress
turnips
apples
pears
.
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Apart from Apples and pears, I dont see a huge collection of British Fruit. The thing is our eating habits have changed. Years ago, fruit and veg was eaten in season, and during the abundance of crops in season you did stuff with it to make it available out of season, like preserves, jams, dried, etc.
Last night I cooked a pasta dish.
Pasta and pesto and tinned toms from Italy, Basil from Jordon, dolphin Tuna from outside British Waters. Lord knows where the Garlic came from. The only thing from the UK was onions. I think.
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Yes we obviously import a lot of fruit and veg but my point was that a surprising amount can be and is grown in the UK. If you had to live solely off the produce of the country in which you live the UK would not be a bad choice.
Out of interest you can easily grow garlic in this country - I currently have two rows of the stuff down the allotment, it is surprisingly hardy, and I believe there are now commercial growers of the stuff.
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>>Apart from Apples and pears, I dont see a huge collection of British Fruit
Out of season I guess now, but loads of berries come from Jockland (esp Fife).
>>Lord knows where the Garlic came from
If you've never tried it they grow some impressive garlic up in Speyside.
www.reallygarlicky.co.uk/
Clarkson and his buddy AA Gill are buffoons, but they're right about Scotland (and the rest of the UK) - plenty of world class foods available, but so many of the indigenous population prefer horseburgers and pink slime hotdogs.
Deepfried of course...
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>> Out of season I guess now, but loads of berries come from Jockland (esp Fife).
Thought that was bananas?
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The Scottish raspberry business has been decimated by labour costs and imports. Fraction of its size..
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"Irish butter or beef" or horse.
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>>Maybe we should all be buying more UK products to preserve jobs if such products are available or exist<<
Why not set an example then Dutchman, and choose a car that is built in England.
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Seems its the next one is Blockbuster. This is really getting beyond a joke, but to be honest I am not one pit surprised. Blockbuster more than HMV is a completly out dated business model. Why go to a shop to rent a film when you can download it?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21047652
As I said I like owning physical media, but renting physical media?
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Plenty of folks out there still without fast internets. Bromptonaut for one. My Mum for another.
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I suspect a significant number of people without a fast enough internet connection to stream films are not the kind of people who would regularly rent films.
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Not sure you can say that, fast internets is a geographical issue rather than a choice issue for a lot of people. It's just not available in some areas.
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I'd have thought Lovefilm and Netflix with their rental business has caused Blockbuster most pain. Nothing to do with streaming. The monthly cost to have plenty of films at home is way cheaper than a few rentals from Blockbuster. Add in the streaming option and they are inevitably having problems.
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>> Plenty of folks out there still without fast internets. Bromptonaut for one. My Mum for
>> another.
>>
If there were, Blockbuster would still be going, its not so clearly there arent.
TBH I though they folded some time back.
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Plenty of companies go under whilst there's still a demand for their product.
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There was no demand for Blockbuster. Sales been falling for years.
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>> Plenty of companies go under whilst there's still a demand for their product.
As has aleady been observed most of the casualties have a millstone of debt from previous ownerships by venture capital or whatever. However fleet of foot you are with stock, market positioning etc you're banjaxed if your biggest outgoing is servicing debt.
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Blockbuster was, like HMV, chasing a market where the bottom dropped out. There is now no longer any call for DVD rental shops, and thats all they had.
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>> >> Plenty of folks out there still without fast internets. Bromptonaut for one. My Mum
>> for
>> >> another.
>> >>
>>
>> If there were, Blockbuster would still be going, its not so clearly there arent.
That assumes those with slow internet also have in interest in renting films. In practice those with slow internet are in rural settings and no rapid access to a film hire site.
Though actually although I've no chance of cable or similar I do have apprx 5Mb/s ADSL2 which is good enough for most things except live TV.
Both my kids d/l films though possibly at lowish (ie small screen) res.
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Do we think a prosecution will happen here? (Man won't take no for an answer when trying to use HMV gift vouchers, so takes product from store anyway).
tinyurl.com/al4ctx7
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Yes he should be prosecuted, terrible choice in games and at that price no way was it train simulator 3. eejit.
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Blockbust..er caught me by surprise. A group of us have a list of who we think may not see the year out, and we were all kicking ourselves for missing this one, but the reality is that we thought it had already folded.
Only one of us in our office was a member, and he had only used the service once a few years back for a specific xbox game he wanted to play.
I remember as a kid lots of corner shops used to rent videos as a side line. Cant remember the last time Isaw a corner shop doing it, but I guess that's the beauty of a small shop - you can change with the times, but if your whole chain is focused on a fast shrinking market then you are stuffed.
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Blockbuster should have offered better online services much quicker. It seems from all these failings bosses of bricks and mortar business don't understand the internet. Argos and Currys however do, both chains have their problems but they have embraced the internet with click and collect etc rather than trying to hide from it.
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I have fast internet, but have yet to see a film in Lovefilm catalogue I would wish to see.
I mean - look at it:- www.lovefilm.com/features/top-lists/toplist_new_lf_instant_jan
Last edited by: Roger on Wed 16 Jan 13 at 20:09
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>> I mean - look at it:- www.lovefilm.com/features/top-lists/toplist_new_lf_instant_jan
Some of the descriptions sound almost apologetic -
(Blow) "It’s the story of cocaine’s introduction to the US, rather in a sub Scorsese, sub Boogie Nights vein, but hey, sub Boogie Nights is still better than average."
(Burlesque) "... this enjoyably tacky musical, a kind of PG Showgirls with better tunes, and a no-holds-barred vehicle for Christina Aguilera (even if it’s about five years too late). Question is who wants a PG Showgirls? Oh you do? Well you are in luck then."
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>> Blockbuster should have offered better online services much quicker. It seems from all these failings
>> bosses of bricks and mortar business don't understand the internet. Argos and Currys however do,
>> both chains have their problems but they have embraced the internet with click and collect
>> etc rather than trying to hide from it.
>>
Problem for blockbuster was that really all their business could have been done online. I don't need to see a DVD before I rent it, so they had no need for any shops. When they started to embrace the online world the management should have had the balls to accept that the shops were doomed and start shutting them as the leases expired.
Argos and DSG sell tangible items that people want to see / touch and feel comfortable being able to return or ask for help.
Personally I hate DSG group and would happily see them fail, but I guess that they will probably pull through given one of their main competitors has been eliminated
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>> Personally I hate DSG group and would happily see them fail, but I guess that
>> they will probably pull through given one of their main competitors has been eliminated
Round her DSG are pretty much the only warehouse operator for PC/AV and white goods; no real competition.
Neither Debenhams or the HofF store are big in electrical. Nearest is John Lewis in MK.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 16 Jan 13 at 20:42
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Was in a Currys today. Asked them to match PC World's price on an iPod. Wouldn't do it.
A few days ago I mentioned that there are few shops I know I'm going to hate the experience of using. I was wrong - Currys is definitely on the list.
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>> Was in a Currys today. Asked them to match PC World's price on an iPod. Wouldn't do it.
And yet they are both DSG and in many stores are now together as Currys/PC World. A lost sale. I'd not buy at PC World for this reason if I was you.
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You may recall that we hunted for a Beko freezer for the garage. Currys had one in stock with a dented door - they offered us 10% off for the dent - I laughed at him. Got the same freezer from Co-oP online - got me divi points - when it arrived had a scratch on the door - phoned them to moan - 20% off unseen. No brainer for future buys.
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>> Blockbuster should have offered better online services much quicker.
>>It seems from all these failings bosses of bricks and mortar business don't understand the internet.
From the BBC report....
"The first Blockbuster store in the UK opened in south London in 1989, and the firm has sought to expand its services in recent years, including with a trade-in facility for pre-owned titles.
The firm launched an online DVD rental operation in 2002, and the company's website, blockbuster.co.uk, claims to send out more discs per customer than other online DVD rental services in the UK.
However, this online rental market became increasingly crowded with rival services, and now the popularity of streaming films over the internet is growing fast."
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What's the ownership history of Blockbuster?
Changing market or another case of debt messing up the corporate centre of gravity.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 17 Jan 13 at 00:31
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Lots of history on the wiki page.
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>> Nothing is more frustrating as going to a store a discovering it is not in
>> stock (even when online site says available in nearest store).
>>
More infuriating is when they have the "display model" on the shelf, but none in the store room, and won't sell you the one on display.
Curry's have lost two sales with me that way.
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I wasn't talking about online sales, I was talking about online streaming services. .OK its only really been viable since around 2008 due to bandwidth limit but they had plenty of time from them till now to offer a service.
Also they didn't advertise their online shop existance. A few TV adds might have worked.
I hit a crisis in my business towards the end of 2011, mostly by accident the fast majority of my work was virus removal. However towards the end of 2011 a lot of criminals who created/hosted them were busted and the work dried up. I quickly had to start offer much more services.
Now I pretty much can do any repair, from a screen in an ipod to changing a power supply on a 386! If I can't do the job I know people who can who charge me very good trade rates.
But then its so much easier for a tiny company like mine to adapt to changing market conditions than a massive company with long leases and debt constraints.
I wonder if all this will make short leases on commercial property become more common?
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>> but they had plenty of time from them till now to offer a service.
Who Blockbuster? They did offer a streaming service. Probably hard to compete with Lovefilm/Amazon. Even Netflix is hosted on Amazon AWS.
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And if HMW fails for example, the independents might thrive.
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I've just had a brilliant idea and I thought I would share it with you foreplayers.
All the high street retail outlets that are going breasts up could be used to house the tens of thousands of Romanian & Bulgarian immigrunts that are due to invade these shores at the end of this year.
Plus of course they will have easy access to the PO for cashing their benefit cheques, and then help the UK economy by spending it in Poundland and Tesco's.
PS - I don't have a column in the DM, yet.
:}
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>> I've just had a brilliant idea and I thought I would share it with you
>> foreplayers.
>>
>> All the high street retail outlets that are going breasts up could be used to
>> house the tens of thousands of Romanian & Bulgarian immigrunts that are due to invade
>> these shores at the end of this year.
>>
>> Plus of course they will have easy access to the PO for cashing their benefit
>> cheques, and then help the UK economy by spending it in Poundland and Tesco's.
>>
>> PS - I don't have a column in the DM, yet.
>>
>> :}
What a good idea. To identify them they can all wear string vests as well - issued free- so we can throw coins and rotting fish at them.. :-)
Sorry Dog, you said you wear a string vest?
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Gawd help us mad f - it's a muscle vest if you don't mind ... minus the muscles :-)
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Amazon wins again!
I needed an energy saving fluorescent bulb for our kitchen light fitting. They are a tad unusual, admittedly, but neither B & Q, nor Wickes in town,had them.
A quick Amazon search and a Philips PL-C 13W/827/2P is on its way to me, with free delivery and for a lot less than the nearest equivalent, but wrong wattage, in B & Q. Oh - and Nectar points as well, as I remembered to go to Amazon via Nectar E Shops.
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Wasn't that how the press found out Rover were in trouble in 2000?
IIRC a company that supplied camouflage netting git suspicious over the repeat orders from Rover - it was being used to hide the fields of unsold cars
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From the Beeb - "UK retail sales fell at a seasonally-adjusted 0.1% in December"
"About 10.6% of sales were carried out online during the month, up from 9.4% a year earlier.....Total online sales were up 15.5% from a year earlier, led by a 36% increase by websites of department stores such as John Lewis."
The more interesting bit, at the bottom, said "With more people shopping online, it seems fewer felt the need to use their car. The volume of petrol and diesel sold in December fell 6.6% from a year ago". 6.6% is quite a big drop.
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>>>The volume of petrol and diesel sold in December fell 6.6% from a year ago". 6.6% is quite a big drop.
With food, electricity and gas prices what they are, even with low interest rates many families are struggling and don't go out so much.
Also more people work from home.
I guess more efficient cars also impact fuel usage as well.
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Next one?
Kwik Fit - the staff are tyred, exhausted and near to breaking point.
(Plagiarised with pride from another forum)
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They've already jacked their prices higher than the competition.
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>> >>>The volume of petrol and diesel sold in December fell 6.6% from a year ago".
>> 6.6% is quite a big drop.
>>
Don't worry the government will come up with some creative taxation to make up their loss.
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They could always reinstate the House and Window Duties Act.
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If they do, I'll switch to Windows 7.
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Windows 3.1 will be cheaper.
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The next one? - R.P.
