www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-21987343
This is not going to be a trend that will lead anywhere good.
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Having read some bits and pieces online - seems daft. Hopefully it won't succeed. I don't believe the Solicitor's mentioned are those used by the Police Federation...maybe wrong, used to be Russell Jones and Walker.
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>> Having read some bits and pieces online - seems daft. Hopefully it won't succeed. I
>> don't believe the Solicitor's mentioned are those used by the Police Federation...maybe wrong, used to
>> be Russell Jones and Walker.
RJW, who are also the CTC's solicitors, are now part of Slater & Gordon Lawyers.
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Should she not be sueing her employer?
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File under heading "frivolous and vexatious"!
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I do hope she is put behind a desk now, to protect her from the big bad world. It would appear that she is unfit for duty if she cannot cope with kerbs though. What a liability she is.
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>> I do hope she is put behind a desk now, to protect her from the
>> big bad world. It would appear that she is unfit for duty if she cannot
>> cope with kerbs though. What a liability she is.
>>
Perhaps she is guilty of not doing a proper risk assessment. when it is dark and you cannot see where you are going then use your torch.
Assuming cost cutting has not scrapped them else perhaps she has not been on a torch handling course.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301650/Call-police--sue-WPC-demands-50-000-petrol-station-owner-tripping-kerb-investigating-break-in.html
Th eletter of great words from the ambulance chasers.
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"Should she not be suing her employer?"
Apparently she has previously done just that.
tinyurl.com/d77neqt
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"Apparently she has previously done just that."
No wonder she looks so happy in the photograph; I wonder if she's caught any burglars lately.
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Probably taken at the Attestation ceremony when she joined:
I, ... of ... do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law.... Oh and try and accrue a shed load of money on the way to fund an early ill health retirement whilst the other losers do their full stretch.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Mon 8 Apr 13 at 21:55
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Have a niggling suspicion you're terribly not impressed FC, are you?...;)
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Nope. Seen one or two similar during my career.
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>> Seen one or two similar during my career.
You find these people in all walks of life. Need their bums kicked.
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Oh and try and accrue a shed load
>> of money on the way to fund an early ill health retirement whilst the other
>> losers do their full stretch.
>>
I must admit, a good mate of mine did just that. He could ride me off his wheel on a bike even during the many spells he had sick before finally getting cast (I believe that's what they call it?) with some complicated ailment of one sort or another. He spent his final two years as an instructor at Hendon, having been confined to desk duties for a long spell before that.
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`Lost touch in the last 3.5 years Bromp. !
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>> `Lost touch in the last 3.5 years Bromp. !
Not just a merge/name change Rob. It's part of the new alternative business structure stuff that's going to be a sea change in the legal landscape. There have also been a couple of high profile casualties in recent weeks.
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I know about some changes - Legal Aid changes are binning a lot. Never thought I'd see redundancies in the industry. One of the volunteers I work with was doing her Law Degree - she had a major problem getting a traineeship.
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I despair! Judging by one of the pictures neither are strangers to the fridge.
All I can say is should look where she is going.
Sign of he times I'm afraid. Look for every opportunity to make a buck. Different breed. If I had a £ for every injury I sustained I'd be wealthy.
Stayed at a rather posh hotel for a couple of night last week. Room on second floor. I went to use the lift and it was on the floor and door was open, result.I stepped in. However the lift floor level was about 6" below the normal level and I jarred my back which I do suffer with. Anyway I used the stairs which I should have done anyway (lazy ****). When I got to the bottom there was a sign on the lift stating 'out of order'. I reported what had happened to the desk for them to take some action in the event of someone of infirmity doing the same thing and taking a dive.
The issue of course is that, had I a mind to, there was money to be milked out of that one without a doubt but I'm not that kind of person. Maybe more fool me but that's why when I see such as what this thread is about my blood boils.
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>> The issue of course is that, had I a mind to, there was money to
>> be milked out of that one without a doubt but I'm not that kind of
>> person. Maybe more fool me but that's why when I see such as what this
>> thread is about my blood boils.
Absolutely right, i'm the same and have scars and damages all over whats left of me body.
Its part and parcel of doing a job for years that carries a risk (different dangers to the old bill obviously) of taking the odd clout knock and fall, if you can't take the odd clout don't take the job, my lad who drives car transporters (i'm out of that now) full time gets hurt and knocked regularly its part of the job, he holds similar views to me, 'it happens.
I detest the claimsRus industry and claimants more than words can say.
One of my new colleagues went rs over elbow at work, i've done similar hundreds of times over the years but he made a big song and dance about it back trouble as usual, he got 3 months off full pay during which time his house was miraculously fully redecorated and we saw him out and about prancing about like a spring lamb, then just to get the icing on the cake he sued successfully for a nice tidy sum, people like him wouldn't manage a week on the cars and i expect be about as welcome as a dose of clap at the nick as well.
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Quite right Fullchat and gb. Snivelling venal greedy self-righteous twerps, these people. They get whiplash injuries from supermarket trolleys.
What makes them think these claims are morally justifiable? Somewhat limited moral sense perhaps.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 1 Apr 13 at 15:48
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>> What makes them think these claims are morally justifiable? Somewhat limited moral sense perhaps.
>>
A bit like the 800,000 odd that have come off Incapacity Benefit rather than face a medical examination.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-21994545
Norfolk police chief's disappointment over trip legal claim
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Smart question is where was your torch? I think it was dark at the time of the incident.
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Basic Health and Safety assessment.
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>> Smart question is where was your torch? I think it was dark at the time of the incident.
>>Basic Health and Safety assessment.
As I said earlier
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I am no great fan of H&S. Surely the risk assessment is done on the spot by the person concerned?
1. I am going somewhere unknown in the dark - what is the risk?
2. I might trip or fall -what can I do about this?
3. Use my s*dding torch - job done.
Or do there have to be written assessments for every conceivable risk any policeperson might come across in the course of a shift, predetermined and filed?
Last edited by: Meldrew on Mon 1 Apr 13 at 17:29
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There are generic and specific RAs for every aspect of the job - As you say I would imagine one would read if dark take a torch. Officers are expected to do a dynamic RA - i.e. "these are slightly unusual circumstances" - "what do I do here ?".....answer "take a torch." will reduce her payout if she didn't.
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She's only a constable - and hardly officer material.
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>> She's only a constable -
Your no oil painting yourself. Still I don't think we have seen the entire picture.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 2 Apr 13 at 12:51
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>> Still I don't think we have seen the entire picture.
>>
Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if she's framed suspects in the past.
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No but she has tripped up a few during interview. Boom boom!
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>> An alternative take:
>>
>> www.lawgazette.co.uk/blogs/blogs/news-blogs/police-deserve-fair-play-too?utm
From an interested party who would suffer if the claims culture was cut.
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Fair comment as far as it goes.
But what I keep thinking is that if I tripped over a low kerb and hurt myself slightly, would my first thought be to sue an innocent third party for compensation? No it wouldn't.
No doubt there are dangerous hazards that could cause serious injury to a person through no fault of their own. But I simply can't see a low kerb as one of those.
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sleeping policemen/women.. are not but the same thing ..my car gets damaged every day by them ...sauce for the goose?
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I read the link.
Pure cobblers..
After all, call a policeman by dialing 999 and then do a Risk Assessment when someone is beating you up.
Utter and complete rubbish. The author of it lives in the world of grasping thieving lawyers and not the real one.
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This ought to be about the claims culture in general...not that a police woman has claimed.
Would there have been a media frenzy if the bin man was claiming?
For the record, I don't think anyone should claim for rubbish like that, let alone a police officer, however they are also citizens just like everyone else.
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>> Would there have been a media frenzy if the bin man was claiming?
>>
>>
Not to that extent, but one would not expect it from someone who goes into a job where the willingness to put one's safety on the line on a daily basis is the minimum entry requirement.
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>> they are also citizens just like everyone else
Yes, of course. And one gathers that the police constable (why not a WPC?) had serious health problems before the incident.
Surely the garage owner should reject the claim on the ground that the officer was physically debilitated in some way and should not have been deployed by the police on that sort of duty? Sounds as if the case is really against the old bill. But the law is so all-fired weird that perhaps it isn't...
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if you get harmed through no fault of your own and get injured....sue the people guilty of injury..10, 20 years down the line and you end up in a wheel chair... what you gunna do then ?
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Is tripping over a low kerb 'no fault of your own'? This is ridiculous stuff.
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If it was someone's private front garden then this would be completely unreasonable as I would understand the police officer to understand they were in a foreign environment and take a higher level of care.
If it is a public place of business, then whilst I would expect the officer to be sensible, I could quite understand why they would expect it to be safer.
If a member of the public could claim had he tripped on that kerb, then I see no reason why the police officer should not.
If a member of the public could not claim, then I see no reason why the police officer should be able to.
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>> If it is a public place of business, then whilst I would expect the officer
>> to be sensible, I could quite understand why they would expect it to be safer.
The kerb surrounds a jet wash area.
If the kerb wasn't there, then you could expect the water from the jet wash, to run away any which way, and would probably cause a much more dangerous problem...
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My point being, that I see no reason why the police officer should be treated any differently to anyone else.
And that anyone would expect that an unknown garden could be hazardous where it would seem more reasonable to believe a garage forecourt was not.
And if they were simply walking around this public area, and they had an accident which could be seen as the responsibility of some negligent person, then why shouldn't they sue? I would.
Of course, if they were behaving in some manner the responsible person could not reasonable expect or predict [e.g. chasing someone], then he wouldn't be deemed negligent and the whole thing would be irrelevant.
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I wonder if she undertook any of this, in particular, Phase 1...
All probationary police constables in England and Wales undertake an extensive and professional training programme known as the Initial Police Learning and Development Programme (IPLDP), leading to the Level 3 Diploma in Policing (QCF), during their first two years of service. The diploma replaces the previous NVQ in Policing Levels 3 and 4.
Individual forces are responsible for the local implementation and delivery of the IPLDP and the emphasis is on local community involvement and a flexible timetable.
The IPLDP is divided into four training phases, which cover the completion of the diploma. The precise name and length of each phase varies slightly between forces, but the IPLDP curriculum is generally divided as follows:
phase 1: induction - general introduction to the organisation with training in first aid, health and safety, officer safety, ICT, race and diversity, human rights and community safety strategy;
phase 2: community - training in crime and disorder reduction and a community placement;
phase 3: supervised patrol - workplace practice supported by class-based learning, dealing with simulated incidents and work-based learning under supervised patrol;
phase 4: independent patrol - combines operational duties with independent and distance learning.
Do the the police still undertake riot training - having colleagues throw bricks and bottles and Molotov cocktails at them?
It seems odd they can train them for a serious situation such as a full blown public riot yet possibly cannot train an offer to look where they're going in the dark.
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It seems to me people ought to be taught how to fall over without hurting themselves.
Children do it automatically - they enthusiastically trip over things, get pushed by friends, fall off makeshift structures, generally live a life of rough and tumble.
Older people can stumble unexpectedly and land awkwardly and break wrists or twist angles.
But an active trained younger person, as WPC Whatsit presumably is, surely was practised in how to recover from unexpected slips and falls, and how to land safely? They do fitness training in the gym, vaulting, forward rolls, rugby tackes, etc - don't they ?
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Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with most of the sentiments in this thread, shouldn't we be asking why the Police Federation is backing her claim?
Pat
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Because they are her "Union"?
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I get that, but what I don't understand is why we're not directing our disapproval at them.
Pat
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Because they didn't instigate it, she did. Not for the first time either. Now she has, they have to back her up.
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>> Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with most of the sentiments in this thread, shouldn't we be
>> asking why the Police Federation is backing her claim?
I suspect because there'e a degree of inevitability in it, i.e. she's paid hers subs and 'needs help'.
Most cops think the Federation is a waste of time and money anyway...OTHER THAN...very useful to have in your pocket if you were ever truly dumped in the mire... and that's easier to achieve than you'd believe.
So you keep paying for it.
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I see the armchair warriors are out in force as usual.
Easy enough to look where you're going when that's all you need to focus on. On the other hand if you've been called out to a report of intruders then there's going to be a degree of attention on them and their whereabouts. Any noise or perception of movement is going to grab attention. How many, are they armed, drunk or drugged? Will they come quietly or put up a fight?
As the Law Gazette item I linked upthread points out just becuase she's made a claim it doesn't mean she'll get a payout. There's a process of evidence and challenge to go through.
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>> I see the armchair warriors are out in force as usual.
>>
>> Easy enough to look where you're going when that's all you need to focus on.
>> On the other hand if you've been called out to a report of intruders then
>> there's going to be a degree of attention on them and their whereabouts. Any noise
>> or perception of movement is going to grab attention. How many, are they armed, drunk
>> or drugged? Will they come quietly or put up a fight?
So you are suggesting that everywhere, literally everywhere, should be risk assessed for safety issues, and mitigated, and the duty of care passed onto the landholder just in case a police officer comes rushing around chasing a burglar?
The H&S risks are job based, and the responsibility of the employer and the employee, NOT the landholder.
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>> So you are suggesting that everywhere, literally everywhere, should be risk assessed for safety issues,
>> and mitigated, and the duty of care passed onto the landholder just in case a
>> police officer comes rushing around chasing a burglar?
>>
>> The H&S risks are job based, and the responsibility of the employer and the employee,
>> NOT the landholder.
I didn't mention risk assessment etc. Rather I was responding to the comments about looking where you're going and knowing how to fall.
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What next, though - soldiers suing the MOD because they have been shot at?
Danger goes with some jobs, (I knew when I joined the Royal Marines that I might be the focus of unfriendly attention, for instance), if folk don't realise & accept that, they are thick: if you want to be wrapped in cotton wool, choose another career.
Last edited by: Roger on Tue 9 Apr 13 at 11:20
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True - in the course of my working life, I was employed by a subsidiary of a major UK bank.
This outfit was run solely by reference to huge volumes of branch procedures and was unyielding.
In those circumstances it was thought that it was better to have a union membership, so virtually all of us joined Clive Jenkin's ASTMS, who did pretty well for us in getting regular salary increases ( four in one year, IIRC!) during those days of rampant inflation,
Last edited by: Roger on Tue 9 Apr 13 at 11:15
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>> In those circumstances it was thought that it was better to have a union membership,
>> so virtually all of us joined Clive Jenkin's ASTMS, who did pretty well for us
>> in getting regular salary increases ( four in one year, IIRC!) during those days of
>> rampant inflation,
And in turn, increased rampant inflation. I have no time for Clive Jenkins, he tried to get unionisation into our workplace, and when overwhelmingly rejected he called us "brainwashed and stupid" Mouthy little welsh git.
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>> Mouthy little welsh git.
>>
Mouthy little git, I agree. You could add the adjective "smug" to the description as well.
The fact that he was Welsh has no relevance, however, to the unappealing personal attributes of the man. :-)
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Is it not true that say:- I am working on my house and have lifted and set aside every fourth floorboard in bedroom 'A' for the clear purpose of 'treating' the timbers with the view to eventually eradicate existing woodworm. Joe Bloggs breaks in and falls down one of the gaps and breaks his leg and (hopefully) smashes his head in the process. Am I as the householder clearly liable for his predicament?
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>> Is it not true that say:- I am working on my house and have lifted
>> and set aside every fourth floorboard in bedroom 'A' for the clear purpose of 'treating'
>> the timbers with the view to eventually eradicate existing woodworm. Joe Bloggs breaks in and
>> falls down one of the gaps and breaks his leg and (hopefully) smashes his head
>> in the process. Am I as the householder clearly liable for his predicament?
I doubt it.
The subject case involves an area to which the public have access; no need to break in.
It may be a speculative claim or, like the US cases with McDonald s coffee, it might me an egregious failure to heed previous 'near misses'.
The court will decide unless the insurer rolls over to avoid a fight.
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The WPC in this case is far too eager to start legal proceedings.
If I were her boss, I'd tell her to "curb" her enthusiasm. :-)
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>> The WPC in this case is far too eager to start legal proceedings.
>>
>> If I were her boss, I'd tell her to "curb" her enthusiasm. :-)
I think that would be a step too far.
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As long as you did not set out to set "traps" for intruders you would not be liable.
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Heard a whisper she had dropped her claim. Seen no other corroboration though.
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>> Heard a whisper she had dropped her claim. Seen no other corroboration though.
If of course the real target was the employer and suing the site owner was a tactic to make them take responsibility then she's succeeded.
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She looked a big clumsy lump in the photos in the dead tree press.
Perhaps she couldn't see her feet for her "attributes"?
monologues.co.uk/First_Ladies/Stately_as_a_Galleon.htm :-)
Last edited by: Roger on Wed 10 Apr 13 at 00:48
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She's dropping the claim: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-24066843
The federation said in a statement: "Contrary to media reports at the time, PC Jones was not seeking a vast compensation payment, rather she was seeking monies that covered the income she had lost as a result of her injury.
"She will bear the financial loss with a hope that the wider concerns the public might have can be resolved by government and the police service for the future.
...
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She saw common sense at last then.
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>> She saw common sense at last then.
>>
>>
>>
or -more likely - somehow had a quiet word with her and the union rep...
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This was only ever a greed thing. She would have been claiming for a loss of overtime.
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Duplicate post re overtime!
Last edited by: Meldrew on Thu 12 Sep 13 at 19:49
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Police Officer suing kerb owner. - R.P.
