Public health England has published figures (more figures!) which show the best and worst places in England to live for a long - or short - life.
Manchester is the worst place in the country - hear that? Rattle, Ted?
tinyurl.com/k22xzyl
I assume they couldn't include Scotland, because Glasgow would have taken the figures off the scale!
;-)
Last edited by: Duncan on Tue 11 Jun 13 at 06:32
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I wonder why this is the case the North and South divide.Are people poorer less educated or couldn't care less the way they live or eat.
I must admit visiting our son in London,Fulham we bought Fish and Chips best I had for a long while.
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"Public health England has published figures (more figures!) which show the best and worst places in England to live for a long - or short - life."
To be a bit pedantic , no they don't. They show the places where the people with the most unhealthy lifestyles live. If you live in Wokingham and move to Manchester you don't automatically become less healthy nor does your health necessarily improve if you live in Manchester and move South.
The people in the worst ares tend to drink and smoke more, eat a worse diet and are more obese and tend to die early which is really no great shock.
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So the really shocking thing is not the variation in public health, but the fact that so many people willingly chose to live unhealthily despite knowing the likely effects.
Why is anyone else bothered?
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>>Why is anyone else bothered?
Because apart from clogging up peoples arteries, it clogs up doctors waiting rooms and hospital wards too.
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>> >>Why is anyone else bothered?
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>> Because apart from clogging up peoples arteries, it clogs up doctors waiting rooms and hospital
>> wards too.
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But only while they live.
After their premature deaths there will be 20 years of savings in health and pensions costs.
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"So the really shocking thing is not the variation in public health, but the fact that so many people willingly chose to live unhealthily despite knowing the likely effects."
Not sure it's shocking but it is interesting how we all tend to conform to the norms of those around us. If all your mates smokes and drink most likely you will too. If every one in your family eats fry ups and pie and chips then you are very unlikely to develop a love of the Mediterranean diet.
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Why do so many allegedly unhealthy people all live in the same place?
Looking at my part of the world, Devon, there's a sea of green....with two blips of red, Plymouth and Torquay.
Why are they so bad compared to the rest of the county?
They've still got sea air and a reasonable climate. They can't all be beer swilling, fag smoking, tattooed, estate dwelling, non exercising, bad teethed, take away munchers...can they?...(have I forgotten anyone else to offend?)
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I can think of a few areas of Cornwall that should have been blipped red, from what I've seen!
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Not to mention Blackpool which is 149th/150.
CGN has a point. But it may still be the case that moving from Wokingham to Manchester increases your chance of an early death, even if you don't change your lifestyle.
The link to "deprivation" is almost mechanical, just eyeballing the information. That suggests that it's not so much about variation in healthcare. In fact, I'm pretty sure spending is higher in deprived areas, but for that the effects of drinking, smoking, and pie eating would be even worse.
But it might still be partly about resources. Maybe healthcare is not in proportion to the level of disease in the most deprived areas.
What I'd like to know for sure is whether people with similar lifestyles fare worse if they live in a deprived area, owing to greater pressure on resources.
A pal of mine who intends to go back north on retirement soon is planning to move from Hertfordshire to Blackburn with Darwen before he buys his annuity, the rates are a lot better there.
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They don't have to be. In real terms the difference between red and green areas aren't that great. All the chart shows is that slightly more unhealthy people live in the cities than elswhere.
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>> In real terms the difference between red and green areas aren't that great
A factor of more than 2 from best to worst? Blackburn with Darwen has 55% higher early death rate than Hertfordshire. And these are adjusted for age mix.
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It is very very miss leading. Most of the Manchester city council area has a lot of areas with poverty. It is only really the city centre, Chorlton and Didsbury which has a lot of wealthy residents. Me and Ted both live in Chorlton and if you look at the stats for that area life expectancy is much higher than Manchester itself.
Again with Salford, the city of Salford contains a lot of areas with a lot of poverty.
And of course the list is councils not really what defines a city. For example Stretford is in Trafford, it is very very much apart of Manchester, but it is in the same council as many mansions where footballers live e.g Hale.
If you want to see why the death rate is so bad in Manchester, then a visit to Moston Road will answer a lot of your questions. Is a very different Manchester to the one that I know.
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">> In real terms the difference between red and green areas aren't that great
A factor of more than 2 from best to worst? Blackburn with Darwen has 55% higher early death rate than Hertfordshire. And these are adjusted for age mix."
Depends on how you look at it.
If you lived in Blackburn and read that in your town out of every 100,000 people , 99,646 would reach their anticipated lifespan but in Herfordshire the figure was slightly higher at 99,771 would you be unduly concerned?
That is in effect what it does say.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 11 Jun 13 at 17:32
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>> "Public health England has published figures (more figures!) which show the best and worst places in England to live for a long - or short - life."
>>
>> To be a bit pedantic , no they don't. They show the places where the people with the most unhealthy lifestyles live. If you live in Wokingham and move to Manchester you don't automatically become less healthy nor does your health necessarily improve if you live in Manchester and move South.>>
Well.... the figures do show that.
If you were to move from Wokingham to Manchester and adopt the lifestyle and habits of your neighbours, over time, your life expectancy would come down to that of the norm.
And vice versa, of course.
Last edited by: Duncan on Tue 11 Jun 13 at 12:27
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Is it just me, or does that map roughly look a bit like a general election outcome if you substituted green for blue?
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The diet variations are the thing.
There is a tendency for chip shops to serve greasier food in poorer areas - I presume they operate the friers at lower, thus cheaper settings.
I've seen pies and pizzas deep fried, think of the fat content, and of course, the Scottish delicacy, the fried mars bar.
Glasgow salad = chips
In 'better' areas, the chip shop is seen as a luxury, yet in the areas with less money - a staple.
I bet if you plotted chip shops per head of population, the two maps would be strikingly similar.
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Fish and chips isn't that cheap.Takeaway foods on a regular basis not that good for anybody.
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I could do with some decent chips with mayonnaise and ketchup right now, or even salt and vinegar. I wish I was in Belgium or even Paris. God this thread makes me hungry.
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Patat and mayonese A.C my favourite as a young lad.I'm peckish now..;)
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>> Chavs die young.
Yes i have tried some of that, £3.99 a bottle down at Aldi.
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I don't think it's a health service supply thing at all.
As Rattle intimates, the bad areas are easy to define when you walk around any town. They correspond with general bad behaviour, families where no-one has worked in living memory,
Single mothers / multiple fathers, Low education standards, no wish to be educated.
We are slowly being outnumbered by this section of the population. We're three generations down a slope where these people have no role models, and I don't know how we climb back.
I lived on the top floor of a local authority tower block forty years ago. As an architect, I was endlessly criticised (not me guv) for LA's supply of such terrible housing.
Our flat was clean, convenient, cheap to run, with a fabulous view. We could watch planes almost to touch down at M/C airport, from 15miles away.
It didn't make me urinate in the lift, or defecate in the rubbish chute - but someone did it.
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Umm .... might have something to do with investment?
At least 5 years ago the London Chest had 24/365 consultant "manned" Cath Lab Emergency treatment for cardiac problems in GL. According to R4 if you had a heart attack in London the wagon took you straight to the London Chest where they "stopped the attack as it was happening".
c.f. Lincoln. Until Xmas 2012 the Lincoln Cath lab was available only for residents of Lincoln 9-5 M-F. Lincoln have now "borrowed"(sic) the money from the Treasury to make the facility more widely available.
So London, blues and twos to have your attack stopped in the cath lab, Lincoln probably 2 Aspirins (can't afford clot busters now don't you know).
Cynical? Well maybe a little bit - sorry.
Knips
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Nothing to do with investment.
It's all about lifestyle choices, diet, exercise, eating and drinking.
Chavs die young ? Yes. And largely are those who used to work in manual jobs. Despite education grades improving annually, many are unqualified and effectively unemployable - often due to attitude more than anything else.
Those who want work, largely leave..
You could also superimpose on the map those areas where old style manufacturing closed since the 1960s. Quite a high correlation..
Edit: add mining to manufacturing..
Last edited by: madf on Tue 11 Jun 13 at 15:19
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That is true for Manchester. South Manchester is largely not industrial as the Egerton family that owned the local land didn't want factories blighting the landscape. Most the employment here is in the service and education sectors (three massive universities just 10 minutes drive away).
In north and east Manchester, it is a lot more industrialy and many factories closed down since the 70's and 80's. It left some serious poverty in parts of East Manchester though things are improving a lot there now. The problem with these areas is that education is poor and there are not many jobs. The sad fact is so many of the better jobs in Manchester are not taken by locals but by people who have moved into the city. My dad was one of them.
I do believe that for many people who have been bought up with this cycle (I was lucky not tbe one of them) these people are very difficult to employ no matter how much they want to find work.
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I saw the news item and newspaper reports. What struck me as odd was that while Wokingham was very healthy, in the sense of low unexpected deaths, Bracknell Forest was quite bad, although only 10 miles away. Some thought suggests that the latter has many take-aways, kebab vans, and pubs selling cheap drink, just for a start and a lower household disposable income than Wokingham.
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Bracknell is a new town that is mostly populated with the descendants of east end Londoners shipped there after the war. Woky is much more established middle class and prosperous. The populations of the two towns are markedly different.
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Good thinking Oh Wise One!
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Wokingham council borders are one of the things that irritate me about living in Berkshire. A huge proportion of the population actually live in the Greater Reading urban area, but pay council tax to Wokingham, whilst using a lot of facilities provided by the council tax payers of Reading, as they are really living in Reading and seldom visit Wokingham town. Same goes for half of western Reading which pays council tax to Newbury. It's flaming ridiculous. The council boundary even passes through the Reading University campus. Our (Reading) borders should be expanded to include the whole of the Greater Reading area, the remainder of Wokingham should be merged with Bracknell - just as Windsor and Maidenhead were merged.
But local gerrymandering won out years ago and no-one wants to rock the boat, least of all Labour dominated Reading council. Which just shows their inability to think of anyone else but themselves, as a correct border for Reading would gather much more council tax but mean that Labour would probably not win outright majority on the council.
Sorry for the thread drift. Yes, I live a very sad life to worry about such things.
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>> Sorry for the thread drift. Yes, I live a very sad life to worry about
>> such things.
Get back to your biscuits...
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I'm more interested in one of the other 3 Bs of Reading.
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you should move to The Ale.
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The Halfway Garage between Reading and Theale used to specialise in really interesting and unusual mainly sporting vintage and PVT cars. One of its owners or customers gave me a memorable, all-too-brief lift once in a Lagonda V12 special, from Reading to the garage. Made my day.
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Early Death Variations 'Shocking' - Dutchie
