Has anyone experience of this? We are considering letting one set of grandparents stay and are exploring all the issues. They’ve stayed before, back in 2010 for a few months since their house suffered bad water damage and it was easier for them to move out while the repairs were being done. Then more recently on the odd occasion my grandad has stayed for periods on his own, maybe a few weeks at a time, as a sort of holiday and to help out.
They are finding their house and particularly garden too big now as they are knocking on a bit. We’ve always got on really well, they were always sad to leave and our place is big enough so that they can have a separate section all to themselves.
I know in some countries it’s quite normal to have three generations under the same roof, I wondered what the panel thinks, good idea or daft?
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>> They are finding their house and particularly garden too big now as they are knocking
>> on a bit.
They are in their late 50's ? :-)
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Free TV licence if one is over 75 I think ;-)
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The now late mother in law lived with us for a few years back in the early nineties. In my experience and that of a mate who had his dad living with him it's a nightmare.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Wed 6 Nov 13 at 20:41
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>> The now late mother in law lived with us for a few years back in
>> the early nineties. In my experience and that of a mate who had his dad
>> living with him it's a nightmare.
My cousin experienced that when her in laws announced their un-retirement from Spain, along with their intention to live with their son (her husband).
After a few weeks of that, she actually took herself off alone with a tent for a fortnight. They got the message and agreed to separate sheltered accommodation. By the sound of it they were a "nightmare" too.
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You will probably be fine - they're your grandparents.
What you don't say is whether it's your Mum or your Dad's parents. The rub will be there.
I'm lucky - I got on fine with Mrs B's Mum and her Dad while he was alive. My predecessor as her partner was an easy act to follow and the words calm and easy going will probably be on my epitaph (unless Mrs B writes it).
Mrs B and my Mum get on OK for a day or two but are too alike - both have strong opinions firmly held and a liking for the last word.
The MoL started to show signs of dementia just after 70 and lived variously with us and her sister/brother for a year or so until we got her into sheltered accom in the village. I was OK but her sister's husband found it trying.
Mrs B also found her own Mum a problem as she was working at home at time on educational writing (curriculum work schemes etc) and got no peace to get on as Mother's attention span, never long, shortened further.
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>> Free TV licence if one is over 75 I think ;-)
I didn't know that. Excellent news.
It's good for everyone - old, young and in the middle - to live together. But all parties have to be able to express anger, screaming and yelling, and then forgive themselves and each other and behave like normal human beings. That said, normal human beings are very variable in their comportment and views, and some combinations of personality are doomed always to be difficult.
Great arrogance, refusal to admit error, sadistic or masochistic tendencies, especially in the old and middle-aged, are disastrous. Damaging to the young especially.
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The housing problem is largely down to everyone wanting their own place. Other stresses of modern life are child care and support for oldies.
"MGL" has a few plusses.
Probably best in a 'granny annexe' or self contained flat if you aren't to get on each other's wires. But if the oldies are selling up that might be quite tenable for a lot of people.
Needs a bit of thought but well worth thinking about.
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My parents have this arrangement. My grandmother, parents, sister and her two children ( and in the fullness of time her husband ) are all living under one roof, 4 generations in all.
It works but before they all moved in everyone agreed on how it would work, nobody moved in and then they just made it up as they went along - money aswell as rules for communal space were agreed, not very detailed but just general rules.
The most important rule of all is make sure everyone has the space they need, not just bedrooms but maybe another room as coming down from a house to just a bedroom and shared spaces is a big shift.
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One bugbear with my MiL was that she would turn the heating up when she felt cold - then when it got too hot instead of turning it down again she'd open a door and a few windows.
Used to drive me mad to come home to find the thermostat on 25 degrees and a gale blowing through the house.
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It is all a recipe for disaster unless the rules are clear and that the respective parties have all the space they need..............and they cook their own meals and only enter one's space when invited.
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We had a house with a purpose-built granny annexe (effectively self-contained one bedroom flat, with bedroom, lounge, bathroom and kitchen) which worked just fine for 15 years when my MiL lived with us. There was just one door into our part of the house. Our son was born while she was there, and built a very close relationship with her. She died in 2000 when our son was 13, at which point it became a visitors area. I think it only worked because it was totally self-contained, sharing bathrooms, kitchens etc. would probably have been untenable. It had the advantage of her continuing to be independent (she was late 80s when she died) but with us being there to keep an eye on her. It was preferable to having to driving miles to visit her regularly.
Luckily I had a pretty good relationship with her, not that it stopped me tearing my hair out occasionally! But rather her than my mother...... ;-)
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My MIL lived with us from the age of 83 to 95 when she died after two weeks in hospital.
We have a granny flat where she slept but had her meals with us.
Occasionally it was a strain - you need to bite your tongue at times.
My wife (MIL was her mother) found it a strain but occasionally she (MIL) would spend 2 weeks away with her son... essential you get an annual break from what can be a full time caring job when illness strikes.. as it will - or age dementia etc.
Any I repeat any I mean ANY annoying traits of aged relatives tend to get worse as they age
At the start we agreed she would pay us for food, heating etc.. and we insisted she did. So we had no issues there. In my view , it's essential. Prevents bad feeling.
If any party is miserable, angry or difficult and not easy going, it will prove a nightmare.
It was a relief for MIL to die at 95 - for her AND us.
Last edited by: madf on Wed 6 Nov 13 at 22:14
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There's another very important thing in several generations living together: the ability to converse, to have general conversation on real subjects (not just what you've seen on the TV, although that too of course).
Argument, reasoning, information, affection, reassurance and if necessary a calling to account. Without these capacities there are no proper relationships.
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Having suffered shared accommodation as a student and then later needing to rent out a room in my own flat to help pay the mortgage I couldn't wait to live alone.
Things have moved on since, the kids have thankfully gone and sometimes I can barely cope sharing with SWMBO.
As for bringing in grumpy, miserable, farting, belching, coughing, sneezing, fridge raiding, bathroom occupying, errand needy oldies you've got to be kidding.
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !
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SWM's parents lived in a house within sight of ours until 1978 when the house next door to our hovel became vacant. they sold up and moved in, FiL died 8 years later and Mil lived on in the house. Ideal for both parties as we could look after her and do jobs for her and she looked after the dogs or babysat when needed.
After the kids left home, and as she became older the situation changed a lot. In her late 80s she became a little confused and we couldn't trust her not to burn the place down cooking. After a few falls she became more or less chair bound. She had a downstairs loo and one of use was always on hand to make her regular cups of tea and meals. Carers relieved the pressure at bedtime and in the morning. My eldest girl was a paramedic by then and used to give the old girl a shower.
We really were tied to our house......she had an alarm pendant and we were, of course, first responder. Many nights were broken by a call at three in the morning when she'd rolled over onto her alarm button. SWM used to take her meals in with a plate in one hand and a baby under the other arm. My speciality was clearing up the aftermath of incontinence, mop and bucket of very hot water with loads of nice smelling stuff in it...oh, and a cigar in my mouth ! SWM doesn't do ' grown up poo '.
She didn't have any sense of taste or appetite, dinner could be one round of toast with cheese on it. She'd only eat half of that but liked a cake or two. Many times one of us went in and found her sobbing in her chair.
It was such a relief when she fell off the bed and broke her leg, she was about 90. This led to a spell in hospital and then in a local rehab home. At that point we made moves to get her into a care home and a vacancy came up in a small private place a couple of hundred yards away. She never saw the house again.
We had power of attorney and sold the house, raising about £250K. The interest at the time, added to her pension, was enough to pay the home fees with a hundred or so left over. She died in her sleep in 2009 at 94 yrs old...a complete blessing. We had realised long before that she was ready and willing to die. She had dementia by then so life was pretty pointless.
Ted
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Thread drift alert!
How many of you are tactile and what is your sense of personal space like?
I get quite uncomfortable if anyone is face-to -face closer to me than about a metre.
I am not tactile and really don't like being touched too much.
I like space around me and am quite happy on my own - I do not feel the need to talk just for the sake of talking.
My wife is opposite in almost every way!
Communal living would be a nightmare for me.
Last edited by: Roger on Thu 7 Nov 13 at 00:19
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Same here Roger...off to bed now...on me own !
Ted
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>> How many of you are tactile and what is your sense of personal space like?
>> Communal living would be a nightmare for me.
In the QT audience you will be in the back row, next to the gangway, with your wife between you and the next person Roger?
I must say you would love it in a Lagos bus if you shrink from personal contact, 20 people in a VW Microbus ...
But listen: it's quite possible for people living together to respect each other's sometimes exorbitant demands for personal 'space'. Any puppy knows that if you wind up an old dog you get nipped and growled at. They soon learn.
I bet you're a lot less horrible at close quarters than I am actually. Just ask the victims.
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I think there are two basic points:
1) Do you like them? Does your wife? Do you enjoy their company? Are they your friends?
2) Have you got the space?
My mother came to live with us when she could no longer really manage a house on her own. We are lucky in having a granny cottage on the other side of the road, so she lived independently in kind of sheltered accommodation. It worked reasonably well, but after a year she died from an unexpected heart attack, aged 89.
So it worked for us, but in special circumstances. I know of friends who had an ailing mother in a tiny house and it was a nightmare, and drove the son in law up the wall.
We are now experiencing the other kind of m-g living, as our eldest daughter now lives in the cottage. It is much the better kind, and actually quite fun. I can see how with space one would just go on building more cottages, and end up like these impoverished maharajas' families, remote cousins camping in the decaying palace. Decayed elegance always appeals to me.
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>>We are now experiencing the other kind of m-g living, as our eldest daughter now lives in
>>the cottage. It is much the better kind, and actually quite fun
That's exactly what your mother experienced and thought when she was living in the cottage...
Meanwhile your daughter is suffering through living with you...
;)
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Sorry for not replying sooner, I have been a bit busy with other distractions… :-)
My grandparents in question are in their early 70s so they are quite old now but still active and healthy. Their desire to downsize is because the garden is too big.
They would not have to live in the same house, there is an out-building where tractors used to be stored years ago, it could be converted into an ideal building, a small bungalow effectively.
Another option might be to have them in the house but mother v daughter relationship is a bit prickly at times. All the males get on fine, I would have assumed mothers and daughters would get on really well but maybe our family is a bit odd. My mum can be a bit stroppy and snappy at times when work is getting on top of her, I usually cop the brunt of it as I’m often the only one in but I have developed selective hearing.
We discussed this yesterday as I saw my Dad for the first time in weeks (he works away).
I think we have decided that this idea of living together would not be wise at the moment and the panel here seems to support this.
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For me it would be an absolute 'no-no'.
I can only presume it makes me selfish, as many societies seem to indulge in this practice, but it would make me shudder.
Maybe it's the personalities involved..but it isn't going to happen here.
I do feel slightly bad, as we have a building in the grounds ripe for a holiday let or granny flat ..and the circumstances of two of the four grandparents (all 4 divorced) may yet dictate a problem in the future....however I'd rather let it to a total stranger and use that funding to help them out that way.
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Totally agree with Westpig.
I'd rather not completely fall out with family members, and letting them live with me would be a sure fire way of doing it.
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>>For me it would be an absolute 'no-no'
>>
That would have been my reaction to my mother or either in laws living with us.
Fortunately for us they survived on their own.
I did quite a lot of 120 mile round trips to the in laws to sort out things - DIY etc.
This eased the worry for SWMBO but it got more difficult when MIL was widowed.
She could be a real stupid moo!
e.g. After turning the heating down the rising main burst and flooded her loft contents and her bedroom. I trekked there in the ice to sort things.
A couple of moons later " Oh by the way the bedroom light is now working!"
The light had been on continuously since the flood due to water in the ceiling rose ...
Something I had not identified when there and was not mentioned in the interim.
She had no loss of marbles - just awkward!!!
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It seems to work in some other countries though, I believe it's quite common in southern Europe.
Maybe they are all deaf.
;-)
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We thought about it at one time. Fortunately we decided to test the theory first by inviting the prospective co-habitant/s to join us on holiday in a rented house in France for a couple of weeks. Idea was that if it went well, we might subsequently suggest the prospect of joint occupancy of our then largish property.
After the first week of the holiday we were clear in our minds that it was not going to be on our agenda.
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>> It seems to work in some other countries though, I believe it's quite common in
>> southern Europe.
The local polizia are not very good at following up on unexplained deaths.
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>It seems to work in some other countries though,
It is common in South America as well.
However, the people have a *totally* different approach to personal space and privacy. As such, someone else living in the house is not the imposition it would be in the UK.
Equally, as in our case, there are maids, handymen and the like wandering around the house which already changes the perspective and irritation threshold.
But in the UK, I just wouldn't do it.
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>> She had no loss of marbles - just awkward!!!
>>
See, that's the thing. I want to be able to indulge in my own awkwardness, not have to kowtow to someone else's.
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>> I did quite a lot of 120 mile round trips to the in laws to
>> sort out things - DIY etc.
>>
That was what forced the issue for us. As my mother declined in ability to cope practically with things like boilers and cookers, and became prey to gardeners and block paving salesmen, even 40 miles away became a bind. Lots of the visits were pointless anyway, and were simply to do things like (again) retune the TV or reset the heating controls.
In the end it was a lot easier having her next door, and just popping over to put meals in the microwave for her. I actually became closer to her in her final year precisely because of the removal of the irritation caused by fruitless trips.
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I have been tempted several times to marvel at the naked hostility that seems so close to the surface in quite a few of the families described here. But I have been prevented by the thought that my own family is fractured and varying from criminal to glamorous, via half-witted and caddish, on my mother's side and slightly harsh Bristolian petty-bourgeois/posh working class on my father's.
Exceptions in both cases of course, and my own parents pretty well beyond any criticism, blind luck. However my views of multi-generational life are informed by my wife's family, an exceptionally civilized extended thing with roots in Quakerism and intellectual Catholicism. Again, there are exceptions of course, but I am well treated and apparently not resented. Blind luck again.
Had I ploughed my own furrow without support from these elements I would have died in a ditch decades ago. Only a slight exaggeration.
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>> petty-bourgeois/posh working class
Oh dear, they are the most trying kind. Lace curtains, what will the neighbours think, summed up as Laurie Taylor reminded me in a recent "Thinking Allowed" by the disapproving criticism of something as "common".
I get on with upper class and working class, but lower-middle are so tedious.
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My own experience is that individuals, and indeed groups or subcultures, in every class are capable of being tedious and often unpleasant. But they aren't all like that (again in every definable social class). Genuine salt of the earth to be found on all sides thank goodness.
Part of my blind luck has been to learn to communicate urbanely with anyone at all, without resorting to excessive tortured obvious 'concessions'. If you mean well and speak more or less straight people understand you. Of course it can be a relief - because it's easier and you don't have to think about it much - to be getting drunk among people with shared culture or background, or friends you know well. But I don't get stressed talking to anyone really.
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One of the major problems with having an elderly female parent live with you is the fight for control of the kitchen between Her and 'er indoors. Both have become used to total charge of that area for most of their lives and are reluctant to relinquish authority.
The other is the TV. Difference in tastes between the generations is a cause of much conflict, "Why are you watching that rubbish, my God you don't watch that filth do you? (This was Grange Hill)", etc.
My MiL had the irritating habit when a TV programme ended of switching the set off without any concern for anyone else. And they can also expect to be included in your social plans, wanting to go everywhere with you which isn't always welcome or practical.
And of course a disappearing upstairs for a mid afternoon session of rest and recreation has a damper on it too (I must stress one involving 'er indoors rather than Her).
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Sun 10 Nov 13 at 18:41
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Sharing a house needs a particular degree of tolerance all round.
Even proximity can be wearing. By around 2001 it was becoming apparent that my Mother out Law was in early stages of dementia. Repeating herself, unable to book/keep Doctors appointments and getting lost driving in Birmingham - a place she'd known like back of her hand.
We were luckily able to find her a place in sheltered housing half a mile away from us in a new development in the village. Involved a bit of effort on my part appealing a decision that she'd no local connections but she was OK there for several years.
By 2008 though she was loosing it big time. Could walk down to our house at any time of day. Off work sick at time I'd make her a cup of tea and take her home, only to find her back again in under an hour. Sure she'd been down several times a day for months - it was only my sick break that 'outed' her. Fortunately we found her a place in res care where she was happy until she died in June this year.
OTOH my own Mother is in a flat half a mile from my sister and although she needs a frame to walk she's sharp as a tack and happily entertains my nephew and nieces who can come/go to her as they please. My two, 19 and 21, while home from Uni can borrow my car and drive the 35 miles up to Leicester to see her too.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 10 Nov 13 at 21:35
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>> (I must stress one involving 'er indoors rather than
>> Her).
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Glad you clarified it
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Multi-generational living - Skip
