A ‘reckless’ painter pictured working from a ladder balanced on top of his van has been fined £4,000.
A company who sub-contracted the work to Nicholls, also admitted safety breaches and were fined £10,000 with £784 costs at Southampton magistrates’ court.
metro.co.uk/2014/05/28/reckless-painter-snapped-working-from-ladder-balanced-on-top-of-van-fined-4000-4742701/
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"A ‘reckless’ painter"
Blimey - you wouldn't catch me up there!
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Astonishingly, this was in an urban area, it seems, and the ladder was straddling a pavement. In the pic, it seems some people have just walked underneath.
The potential danger to the public was considerable, and the chance that someone would see and report the safety breach almost inevitable.
Nicholls would seem to be a few shades short of a full palette.
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This doesn't seem shocking to me, maybe ill-advised but that's all. He has someone at the bottom of the ladder. The van roof is unlikely to collapse. I suppose it is 2014 though, we have to be shocked at everything...
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The van is almost incidental. At that height, I think his main offence was not to use scaffolding.
But then, the article refers to him as a roofer. I've known a few of those and none was fully furnished above the ground floor.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 30 May 14 at 16:43
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>> The van is almost incidental. At that height, I think his main offence was not to use scaffolding.
I think the health and safety aspect is more to do with not using scaffolding because of the height. When we had some painting done at the side of our old house, the painter got hold of very long ladders and painted bits but knew there was a risk of being reported etc.
Funnily enough, we also had work on the chimney done and we needed scaffolding on the side of the house.... But the scaffolders built it without using ladders etc... surely they must have been in breach of some health and safety rule? :-)
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>> The van roof is unlikely to collapse.
But still has a slippery surface.
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>> >> The van roof is unlikely to collapse.
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>> But still has a slippery surface.
And I would have thought it would be likely to at least end up dented. Or did they spread the load somehow?
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Isn't the ladder supported by the other ladder lying along the roof, or the crossbars of the roof rack? In any case it's their van and they presumably know what they're doing.
You sure as hell wouldn't find me up there either, not even half way up. Just looking at the photo gives me the horrors.
Vertigo RP, vertigo!
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>> Isn't the ladder supported by the other ladder lying along the roof, or the crossbars
>> of the roof rack?
Ah ok - so the upright ladder is actually resting on its lowest rung rather than its legs, and the rung is perhaps across (ie. perpendicular to) 2 rungs of the horizontal ladder? That makes more sense.
Last edited by: Focusless on Fri 30 May 14 at 17:34
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In that case you might argue that the ladder is better secured on the van than it would be by the combination of friction with the ground and easily-distracted mate holding it. Only he shouldn't have been using a ladder at all.
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>> In that case you might argue that the ladder is better secured on the van
>> than it would be by the combination of friction with the ground and easily-distracted mate
>> holding it. Only he shouldn't have been using a ladder at all.
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But mechanically the entire force is being taken on one rung, which it's not designed for.
I personally think the risk is minimal - the biggest issue, potentially, is the chap on the bottom of the ladder being unable to apply any force in the direction of the wall. Equally, if he loses his balance, he's unable to step backwards to help himself.
The fine is a tad harsh, but reasonable. Might be a big element of the attitude test here, especially if the boss is standing on the bottom of the ladder and the apprentice is the one up there painting!
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"These guys wouldn't have worried"
That photo brings my hands out into a sweat; I'm hopeless on ladders and always have been.
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>> "These guys wouldn't have worried"
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>> That photo brings my hands out into a sweat; I'm hopeless on ladders and always
>> have been.
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Me too. I don't even like standing on a small stepladder !
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>> But mechanically the entire force is being taken on one rung, which it's not designed
>> for.
Looking at it again, and after enlarging the pic, I don't think that's what's happening. It looks like the upright ladder is on the other side of that ladder-like thing lying across the van's roof, and as far as I can tell it's resting on its legs.
Perhaps the horizontal ladder is secured somehow, and the upright ladder is resting against it? Not that it matters now, just curious.
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>> But mechanically the entire force is being taken on one rung, which it's not designed
>> for.
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Isn't that what rungs are for, taking your whole weight as you stand on them?
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>> Isn't that what rungs are for, taking your whole weight as you stand on them?
But (presumably) not the weight of the ladder as well, although I don't think that's what's happening, as mentioned above.
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The guy is a fool because he should have known some busybody would be along to not only take a picture but then share it with newspapers and employers,
However, I don't really see why everybody thinks he is doing something so dangerous?
Do we think the van will collapse? Roll away? Vanish in a puff of smoke?
Its got a roof rack and a bloke holding it, so the ladder probably isn't going to slip.
Seems to me a life needs to be got.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 30 May 14 at 18:55
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It seems to me that he's a roofer doing some painting rather than just a painter.
Roofers in my experience have no fear of heights and spend a lot of time scampering over tiles, parapets and the like. He would probably have assessed the risk to himself as reasonable and just got the job done. If he falls off it's his problem (+ a NHS bill for the rest of us).
It looks as though a ladder is clamped to the roof bars horizontally so the long ladder is well restrained and the chap standing on the bottom rung isn't doing much.
I reckon his only mistake was to do it over the footpath and risk injury to passers by.
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate on Fri 30 May 14 at 19:31
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A guy who lived near us in Scotland years ago was a self employed roofer. Often to be seen wandering about on steep tiles, bootlaces undone, fag hanging out of the corner of his mouth.
I did ask him once if he was ever afraid of falling but he said he wasn't. He did say though that "the fallin' wisnae whit boathered him, it wis the hittin' o' the deck he didnae fancy"
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My brother lives in three story town house. He had a slipped tile the roof. The first quote he got for fixing it was £950 including erection of scaffolding. The second guy said " I'll get the ladders from the van", climbed up pushed the tile back and charged him £60.
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>> Its got a roof rack and a bloke holding it, so the ladder probably isn't
>> going to slip.
I'd need more than a 'probably' to get me up there :)
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I know someone ( quite well ) who as a child with his mates got into a bit of bother with the police when 'tightrope walking' along the handrail of the pedestrian walkway of the Forth Road Bridge...
Tum ti tum...
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 30 May 14 at 20:28
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>> I'd need more than a 'probably' to get me up there :)
I'd need a very immediate threat of death to get me up there. Even then I might not manage it.
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must be the worst wreckless painter since A Hitler
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Actually I think (excluding pedestrians) that it is quite safe and very ingenious! - compared to a "local" chap who is a hobbyist Rock-climber, and every couple of Summers can be seen hanging from a rope and harness, abseiling along the outside of his house painting / cleaning out his gutters! - what it's tied to in the attic bedroom from where the rope emerges is anyone's guess! probably a bed-leg!
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Yes, Hitler didn't do seascapes. ;-)
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I worked with an Inspector in the force information room which was on the top floor of police headquarters in South street.
He was a keen rock climber and used to bring some tackle in on nights and abseil down the front of the 5 storey building at 2 in the morning...coming back up for another go several times. He tied his rope off on one of those old fashioned radiators under the window. Good man ! IMO.
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Friend of mine abseiled out of a window in our halls of residence in Manchester. He doubled his rope so couldn't manage the 18th floor but did it from the 8th. Years later, I met people who'd heard a 'myth' about someone doing this. He tied the rope to the radiator... a little risky I guess.
He planned to do it for ages - did it on our last day there so if he got seen, not much could be done about it.... He did it twice :-)
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>Anyone can see the system of work is plain wrong, so why a supposedly competent roofer chose to work in this way is anyone’s guess.’
clue- "roofer". Not surprising af all.
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>> >Anyone can see the system of work is plain wrong, so why a supposedly competent
>> roofer chose to work in this way is anyone’s guess.’
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>> clue- "roofer". Not surprising af all.
>>
But this one (and his mate), appear to be a cut above the norm - they have a van, not a pickup, and it has writing on it, complete with landline phone number!
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According to the HSE's website and guidance on ladder use and safety, he appears to have been fined £4000 for doing very little wrong!
www.hse.gov.uk/construction/faq-height.htm
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Tis safe enough. Have done a lot worse for sure.
40 Gallon Oil drum on 40 Gallon Oil drum x 2. Inverted Dining table atop that lot to carry out a brickwork repair we were told was at ground level.
Just get it done was my motto then. Not too much has changed.
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Look up dodgy ladders on Google images - good for a laugh.
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I think perhaps the most likely danger is from a high-sided passing vehicle rocking the van.
It was when I once changed a caravan wheel on a motorway !
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>> I think perhaps the most likely danger is from a high-sided passing vehicle rocking the van.
If that's a residential tower block opposite the building being painted, then I would have said joyriders would equally pose a risk ;)
www.google.com/maps/@50.911583,-1.399743,3a,90y,61.22h,91.84t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1syIrI8YdRHGCYvGuOLiOyoA!2e0
www.google.com/maps/@50.911583,-1.399743,3a,90y,295.89h,100.82t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1syIrI8YdRHGCYvGuOLiOyoA!2e0
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Jun 14 at 01:02
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Is your ladder not long enough? Then improvise. - Haywain
