the other day I noticed I had a weeping CH pump isolating valve, it was dripping from the wide pump port. So I dropped a cup under it, and today set about fixing it.
Wind down the isolators, and get my large water pump pliers on the leaky side and with the first twist...
b*****
Water now peeing out of both sides of pump
Isolator not isolating
Emergency drain down required
Will the valves come off the pump? will they my willy. So off with the pump and isolators in one fell swoop (been here before - I designed a bit of "play" in the pipe work so they can sprung out)
So for the last 4 hours I have been trying to get isolators off the pump, one came off eventually but the other simply refuses to budge. Its been wacked, heated, oiled, nearly wrecked the workmate in the process, but it wont budge short of being cut off.
So I am now off to screwfix for a new pump, isolators, and fernox inhibiter. Currently we have no hot water and no ch.
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Stinking hot here in Madeira
You don't need either
Thank goodness the pool is cool
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Oh dear. Fairly classic example of "why get an expert in when you can lash it up yourself" though isn't it?
Still, it's mild for the time of year eh?
Hope you get it sorted before the snows come.
;-)
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>> Oh dear. Fairly classic example of "why get an expert in when you can lash
>> it up yourself" though isn't it?
What you really mean is "I wouldn't have a clue where to start, and would have to lash out a fortune for a plumber"
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I had a weeping radiator valve which I fixed with PVC PTFE tape,
I suspect the isolator valves on our pump are seized solid.. not been touched since 1989...
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>> What you really mean is "I wouldn't have a clue where to start, and would have to lash out a fortune for a plumber"
Absolutely right ! But I'd also be able to have a shower in the morning and not have to sleep with the dog to keep warm.
Why am I getting Frank Spencer images flashing into my mind...?
Ooooohh Betty, I think I've done a whoopsy !
;-)))
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Hells bells, the new pump has an "augmented reality installation app" for the iPhone.
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>> Hells bells, the new pump has an "augmented reality installation app" for the iPhone.
>>
Does it monitor your progress and have a nice lady advising you what next to do.
A sort of plumbers Sat Nav ?
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29719512
Its no surprise really. With my recent diy in mind, I have just been to Screwfix for my bits, which I have been doing for a while now. You find what you want on line, order it, go and pick it up. Its quick, its cheap and its convenient.
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>> I have just been to Screwfix for my bits
Difficult to avoid them around here - 3 within 5 (driving) miles of us, 5 within 8.
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I always click and collect at Homebase too - dump the car with the gang in the carpark and, after a quick stroll round the in-store Habitat before collecting the online order, it's all clean, shiny and vacuumed when I return:-)
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I find Screwfix prices high, although I've just bought a dehumidifier there.
I tend to use a local plumber's merchant for most of my plumbing stuff as they've usually got what I want in stock at a competitive price and free advice.
I used to be keen on Wickes until Homebase bought them when their prices went silly.
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>> I find Screwfix prices high, although I've just bought a dehumidifier there.
>>
I switched from Screwfix to Toolstation as my first resort a few years back, as, post B&Q buyout, Screwfix prices seem to have risen towards B&Q prices.
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>> I find Screwfix prices high
+1
and the quality can be variable on non-branded products.
Always use BES for plumbing - generally as cheap and always good quality. Normally delivered next day am if ordered by cut off time.
Toolstation always good for free coffee and helpul staff. SF have lost the plot a little since B&Q took them over.
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I don't know who our plumber uses. He's awfully good though the chap.
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>> I always click and collect at Homebase too
>>
25% of Homebase stores are unprofitable and set to close, according to a report on R4 this morning.
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>> 25% of Homebase stores are unprofitable and set to close, according to a report on
>> R4 this morning.
Convenient as it is I cannot imagine the store in Towcester is profitable - unless they got site at a very good price from liquidators of Focus DIY.
{Cyclechattters in joke}PS - I think somebody might claim a TMN for that post.......{/Cyclechattters in joke}
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 23 Oct 14 at 20:58
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We've got a newish Homebase down the road, side by side with an Argos. Often use the Argos and there is always a steady flow of people, but the Homebase is usually dead.
Quite often the only till open is the customer returns one.
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>> We've got a newish Homebase down the road, side by side with an Argos. Often
>> use the Argos and there is always a steady flow of people, but the Homebase
>> is usually dead.
>> Quite often the only till open is the customer returns one.
No doubt they have been reducing costs for some time, I had the same experience recently.
Trying to get the costs to go down faster than the sales to increase profit never works.
Making people scour the shop for 15 minutes because there is nobody to ask, then making them queue up when they want to give you money loses sales on the day, and afterwards. Suicidal.
I don't know what their average lease durations are or how well the unprofitable ones match the shorter leases, but in the real world cutting the store base is usually expensive , or a long job.
They'll be writing it off to restructuring costs and reporting improved "operating profit" for a good while I expect.
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Kind of job you wear rigger boots for I guess...:-)
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>> Kind of job you wear rigger boots for I guess...:-)
If you are saying have I kicked the thing a few times, the answer is yes.
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Exactly what I meant ! :-)
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>Will the valves come off the pump? will they my willy.
I had a similar problem when I had to replace a pump that was getting noisy.
When I went to buy a new one, the guy behind the counter at the plumbers merchant plonked two new valves alongside it and said:
"Here, you'll need these as well. The washers will have stuck the old ones to the pump."
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No updates. This is no criticism of Zero... I hope he's shutdown the water supply for the night and sorting it tomorrow.
He's got the time and ability (judging from posts) to sort it himself. Many of us would get someone to sort it for us.
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>> No updates. This is no criticism of Zero... I hope he's shutdown the water supply
>> for the night and sorting it tomorrow.
he has
>> He's got the time and ability (judging from posts) to sort it himself. Many of
>> us would get someone to sort it for us.
he will have it fitted, filled and running by lunchtime.
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Are you are also fitting additonal isolation valves to avoid a full drain down next time.....?
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>> Are you are also fitting additonal isolation valves to avoid a full drain down next
>> time.....?
Are you suggesting he fits isolating valves to isolate his isolating valves?
What happens if they stick (or leak like mine did the other day)?
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Well this dilemma plagued me all afternoon. So I have resolved the following.
1/ I have obtained a pair of hideously expensive pump isolator valves that are not made of brass but chrome plated steel or iron. They also have rubber seals - not the fibre type. They also are not sliding gate type valves* but large ball type with an impressively large ball.
2/ Upon fitting I will coppaslip the threads to he new pump body, and silicon lubricate the rubber seals.
3/ The valves will be regularly exercised.
*The old ones failed to work because the gate is crudded up and can't travel all the way down. Not that would have made any difference, because one is still firmly welded to the pump
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Zero
Thanks for the details of your action plan and components.
I will log that info in case I need to change our pump.
I still have not sorted the problem of pump not switching off, after its overun is complete, so it is getting extra wear and I have to fiddle about ensuring it is off at night.
For our installation the pump is upstairs and the C/H installer (35+years ago) included two drain cocks poking out of the external wall onto the patio so draining is easy
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>> >>because one is still firmly welded to the pump
>>
>> Just need a bigger spanner...
>>
I have had a 36" steel Stilson wrench ( donated by my late brother) sitting in my shed, unused for about 30 years cos it will be useful one day
>>
( now he tells me ?)
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>> >>because one is still firmly welded to the pump
>>
>> Just need a bigger spanner.... www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Newsome-48-Inch-Aluminium-Pipe-Wrench-Stilson-PS48A-/251642683710?_trksid=p2054897.l4275 :-)
Nope, wont work. The problem is not the leverage of the spanner, its locating and stabilising the pump in some way - its an awkward shape being mostly round edges - I had it clamped in the workbench but it actually started to split the wooden jaws under the pressure of the spanner.
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>> because one is still
>> firmly welded to the pump
Some sort of bi-metallic corrosion? Similar experience many moons ago with bottom bracket cup on a bike.
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>> >> because one is still
>> >> firmly welded to the pump
>>
>> Some sort of bi-metallic corrosion?
Almost certainly.
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>>
>> 3/ The valves will be regularly exercised.
>>
For the first couple of weeks.
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I find that pipe freezer works very well when removing stuck valves. You just need a lot of it and it is not cheap. 10 years ago I bought a job lot of 15 aerosols on ebay for £20... retail value then £120.
All gone now: sadly..
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Right, Pump on, system filled, no leaks, pump working and water circulating (sort of) its now just a matter of bleeding the system. Its a weird one with little head of water it needs to be loving coaxed into life with a sequence of radiators shut off, others opened. A great slug of air just gurgled round the system, the dog leaping from room to room to chase out this noisy invader.
There is one radiator that will fill but refuse to circulate hot water, this needs to be treated with special care, all other rads shut off pump on maximum and give it an individual blast.
One thing that has always irked int he past is putting inhibiter in, filling the system, finding a leak and having to drain it again and waste the inhibiter. Now I leave the towel rail isolated and fill it with inhibiter from the top, and then release it into the system, when all is proven well.
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Where did you get the chrome plated valves from Z?
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>> Where did you get the chrome plated valves from Z?
My local plumbers merchant
Looks like the one top of page, don't know if that one is plated tho
www.bes.co.uk/product/108b~PL~6916~-Domestic-Circulator-Pump-Isolating-Valves-Equipment.html
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 24 Oct 14 at 21:25
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>>
>> Are you suggesting he fits isolating valves to isolate his isolating valves?
>>
Good idea, perhaps? Fit isolating valves at 6 foot intervals along all pipework, and at appliances. Then any section, or valve, that leaks can be isolated and attended to.
A bit like canals - they can isolate at any bridge to drain a leaking section.
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And thats it. All sorted, system now settled down and all functioning, water tight, as it should.
all in all its cost me 135 quid- a plumber would have added another 300 quid.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 24 Oct 14 at 13:34
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>> And thats it. All sorted, system now settled down and all functioning, water tight, as
>> it should.
"he will have it fitted, filled and running by lunchtime"
13:33 - A rather late lunch today?
Anyway, quite seriously, a job well done. There are plenty on here who wouldn't have touched it!
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After my failed isolating valve last week (dehumidifier will be running for ages) my PVR cried enough. SIL gave me his old one, which died last night. Outdoor temperature sensor disappeared in the gales, but it can't be far as it's still transmitting. SWMBO dropped a hot iron on a newly carpeted bedroom floor, synthetic carpet and it melted. I've gone and done something to my wrist and it's giving me gyp.
How's your week been?
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Heavy rains of last week ended up with water entering single storey extension ... buckets needed. bathroom. Ceilings ruined. Roofing contractor this afternoon and I clambered around in loft: reslating/refelting needed asap.. Quote awaited..
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Traumatic week here as well. Broke a nail on Tuesday......not too bad though. Nibbled it off easily enough. Didn't call an ambulance !
Hey-ho !
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>> >> And thats it. All sorted, system now settled down and all functioning, water tight,
>> as
>> >> it should.
>>
>>
>> "he will have it fitted, filled and running by lunchtime"
>>
>> 13:33 - A rather late lunch today?
It was a late start
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Shall bear this advice in mind - have brand new circulating pump ready to go in but might have a pair of isolating valves on standby just in case it all goes tits-up. Current pump works find but has ominous rumbling noise from bearing.
www.screwfix.com/p/wilo-stratos-pico-commercial-circulating-pump-230v/63610
Pimped.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Fri 24 Oct 14 at 19:13
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Well yesterdays actually
The shower has been leaking -One of the Aqualisa behind the wall thermostatic type. Its been a constant source of expensive agro so it had to be changed.
Bought a bar type shower mixer and yesterday started on the task of changing it assuming it would be a real bar steward to change.
Used my multi tool to cut through the grouting on two tiles around the mixer knob, then an angle grinder to cut slots in the tiles. These were then chipped out with a chisel and levered out. Next the multi tool again to cut a slot through the stud wall around the mixer.
Got pretty good access to the plumbing joints and the mixer body so out came the body of the mixer pretty easily. Good things? I had bought a mounting bar with right angled plumbing joints for the bar mixer and the pipe spacing was exactly right, the old one had been mounted to a nogging cut to the correct thickness to allow the mounting bracket outlet pipes through he tiled wall at the correct length.
Drawbacks? The old mixer had 22mm ports, the new one has 15mm ports. So off down to the plumbers merchant to grab some compression fit reducers, and using some spare 15mm pipe i have around managed to get this thing plumbed, fixed in and connected to the water. Been water tight over night so all is well.
Today is repair the hole in the wall and Tile.
Tomorrow is grout.
Shower back in use by Saturday.
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>>The shower has been leaking -One of the Aqualisa behind the wall thermostatic type.
>> Its been a constant source of expensive agro so it had to be changed
>>
>>
Aqualisa I too have problems.
I had one of the earliest built in thermostatic versions fitted.
Over the years I have changed the thermostatic cartride several times.
Turn off the water, 4 screws x2 and it is an easy swop.
This time. Shut of valves not closing properly but never mind just drain the tank.
The replacement cartridge does NOT fit !!! Digital caliper confirms the B obvious.
Its diameter to significantly larger than the existing one and the one before.
Reported it to the "Customer service " dept.
Hopeless !!. Would not listen !
If there was a problem, we would know about it!
Nothing has changed, quality control blah blah blah.
Guy here for 30 years says no problem.
File off the burrs on the embossing. Rubbish
File off the the circumference !
I am paying £100 for a part that does not fit and I am supposed to attack it with a rasp as that is how much I have to reduce its diameter.
Showed a plumbers merchants and they agreed with me.
They called the rep.
Outcome the Customer service mob called me and we went round the loop with the same result.
The desk may be unaware or are telling porkies or there IS a manufacturing problem.
Someone has to be first to report it.
I do not for one moment think there is a manufacturing fault.
I believe there have been changes in the spec
I can imaging a plumber hacking at it to make it fit and grap the money.
I am writing to the CEO as I am not a happy bunny
Yes I can complain but in reality what can I ask for ?
Find me some old stock that fits? And the next time it fails
Will they put the unit on a lathe and turn it down to size?
I seem to be bumping into more and more products with problems and the companies are most unhelpful.
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Old chimney cowl found down side of house so I visited roofing merchants and obtained the 'correct' replacement which fitted square pots from x cm to y cm diameter. Fine day, ladders extracted from garage and burly mate to hold on to them (he doesn't like heights either). Decent cowls aren't cheap.
So up I go with all the bits in hand and basically it was too small. Back down re read of destructions over a brew to see if it was operator error and retry. Nope. Returned to merchants. They look at me like I'm stupid but refund given.
Anyhow rings the companies sales dept and explains the issue. You get the feeling that they are thinking 'thick plank' In the first instance he recommends a different product for my chimney.
I didn't order direct at that point as I was going away on holiday the next day. When I got back spoke again and ordered. At this point they told me that an investigation had revealed that the printing on the instructions and packaging was wrong.
Got a bit of discount but in the scheme of things,wasted journeys and time, it amounted to diddly.
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Wasn't in stock. Have a Grundfos instead. It's so quiet *sobs hysterically*.
Big though, only just fits in the airing cupboard. And the paint cures with the heat so it absolutely stinks at first. Thanks for the tip about the isolating valves.
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I have just about finished replacing a 50 year old galvanised header tank in my departed Mothers house which has had little interest in the sales stakes.
The property is a dormer bungalow and a routine visit into the roof void revealed a tank that looked like a teenager with acne and apparent water ingress around the chimney and through some broken tiles. No lagging anywhere, central heating pipes standing on broken bricks and the central heating header tank perched on a couple of interwoven fencing lats astride the big tank - I kid you not. Quality plumbing :(
To remove and replace the tanks with plastic ones necessitated removing part of a stud wall. I seem to have spent an inordinate amount of time on the project - back and forth visiting plumbers merchants and crawling in and out of a restricted space doing my best not to go through the ceiling. Care has been spent properly routing and non bunching of pipes to allow for the easy and complete fitting of lagging. Nearly done apart from the overflows (the call them 'warning' pipes now).
I decided to fit a couple of isolators on the 15mm feed pipes and as a result of advice further up paid for quality items. Found that one of them didn't which necessitated yet another trip for a replacement :(
So its all nearly done and with all that nice copper pipe (dear now isn't it?) the project is a vision of loveliness and a true craftsman job. Only down side is once the pipes are lagged and the plasterboard reinstated no one will be able to admire my handywork. Unless of course I put in a glass panel and some feature lighting :)
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Well done that man.
I know what you mean about hidden work.
In my daughters flat both the main tank and header tank are in a very tall kitchen cupboard.
The plastic header tank was installed IN the main tank
This appeared to be a permitted installation with proper tanks but I was unhappy with this arrangement.
Out with the header tank, plug the holes and mount a new header on top of the main tank.
No space to spare down to MMs.
Some of the "clever" pipework is behind the cupboard rear wall. The vent pipe for the header tank appears and is resting horizontally on the lid with a 15mm elbow through the lid.
The familiar loop up in the air is hidden behind the rear wall of the cupboard.
This may confuse any future plumber as the vent pipe appears to be only just above the water level. :-)
www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/26290-height-vent-pipe-formula.html
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Note to self: Check direction of little arrow indicating flow direction before installing.
After suffering a month of clunks, gurgling, bangs, fluctuating pressures and a deeply unhappy boiler I took a look at the plumbing diagram for the system and experienced a Eureka moment.
Not helped by Grundfos technical support asking, somewhat patronisingly, "You did check the flow direction before installing it, didn't you?". Me: "Of course I did. What do you take me for, an idiot? Back in a moment."
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a tits up kind of day. - legacylad
