Spent last half hour sorting out frayed flex on an old extension lead. Basically, cut whole thing back and remake connections, this time ensuring the flex was properly clamped. Mrs B thought it might have been something her Dad had sorted but he was a AMIEE and would never have made such a horlicks.
Got me thinking though. Until around 25 yrs ago anyone buying an electrical appliance would be expected to fit a plug to it. How many of us an still do that without needing professional help?
And how long will it be before we're compelled to get a professional do it?
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I can still do it - fiddly though. Not sure about The Boy - suspect he would call me.
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Learning how to wire up a plug was part of the growing-up process for a boy.
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>> Learning how to wire up a plug was part of the growing-up process for a
>> boy.
Learning how to stick bare wires in a socket using matches was a growing up process for a boy.
Yes I can still wire plugs in my sleep, even tho (as many no doubt) we lived through the change from Red/Black to Brown/Blue (how they ever came up with brown/blue as live/neutral is beyond me - defies all logic.)
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>> Learning how to stick bare wires in a socket using matches was a growing up
>> process for a boy.
>>
Remember my uncle doing that but making me promise never to try it myself.
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>>
>> Yes I can still wire plugs in my sleep, even tho (as many no doubt)
>> we lived through the change from Red/Black to Brown/Blue (how they ever came up with
>> brown/blue as live/neutral is beyond me - defies all logic.)
>>
I can't be bothered to Google but I think it's because brown/blue/green colour blindness is very rare.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Sat 6 Dec 14 at 16:44
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>> we lived through the change from Red/Black to Brown/Blue (how they ever came up with brown/blue as live/neutral is beyond me - defies all logic.)>>
I always worked on the basis of BL (Bl)ue Left and BR (Br)own Right...:-)
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>> I always worked on the basis of BL (Bl)ue Left and BR (Br)own Right...:-)
I used blUE = nUEtral
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I've always wired up plugs as recommended but I have in my naivety always wondered why it matters which lead you wire to L and which to N ( apart from the earth of course ) when the plug is to be connected to an alternating current.
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>> I've always wired up plugs as recommended but I have in my naivety always wondered
>> why it matters which lead you wire to L and which to N ( apart
>> from the earth of course ) when the plug is to be connected to an
>> alternating current.
Yeah but you don't want it alternating the wrong way round your ring now do you.
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That does at least sound potentially uncomfortable. However, ( and I freely accept I know next to nothing about these things ) why would, say, a light bulb "care" which of its terminals ( if that's what they're called ) was connected to L or N on an alternating current ? Or a direct one for that matter.
Just curious, no plans to ignore convention.
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>> why would, say, a light bulb "care" which of its terminals ( if that's what they're called ) was connected to L or N on an alternating current ?
Makes no difference to a light bulb. But it's good practice to have any live circuit that might carry a heavy load isolated by fuses or trips. It's safer that way.
On the continent where they have the 2-pin system heavy current-using equipment often has its own earthed circuit I seem to remember.
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>> That does at least sound potentially uncomfortable. However, ( and I freely accept I know
>> next to nothing about these things ) why would, say, a light bulb "care" which
>> of its terminals ( if that's what they're called ) was connected to L or
>> N on an alternating current ? Or a direct one for that matter.
The light bulb wouldn't care one jot, nor would it put any other light bulbs off their stroke if it was, indeed the only reason colours are used on a light bulb circuits are so you don't connect it to two neutrals and wonder why it is so dim.
However, on a ring main for plugs, where earthed appliances may reside and stuff with motors may be used its quite important.
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That's all very well if you can't spell nEUtral
Although it's the same method I use... :-)
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>>
>> I always worked on the basis of BL (Bl)ue Left and BR (Br)own Right...:-)
>>
I use black & blue (bruises) and red & brown (sunburn).
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Brown/red is live, black/blue neutral. The live wire should be the one that goes through the fuse in the plug and indeed in the rest of the system, as any fule kno. The third, earth wire oddly enough is connected to, er, the earth, a steel pipe driven into the ground. Pleasing somehow, but I was still surprised to hear that was all there was to it.
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Can be but it can also be a complicated subject. All you ever wanted to know about earthing here:
electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/2005.cfm
And look for the download on Earthing Matters
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It's part of scout training. I keep an assortment of plugs and bits of lead for that purpose. I think though one of the Nordic countries requires professional installation.
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>> I keep an assortment of plugs
Me too.
I have a bag of MK 13A plugs that were expensive.
Unless I buy an item with a really rubbish plug and swop it I guess it is a case of bin most of them
I do have a 13A, MK clone, transparent plug which I sometimes ( in male only company) refer to as a ladies plug as you can examine the workpersonship with out taking the lid off.
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>> Learning how to wire up a plug was part of the growing-up process for a
>> boy.
Part of me wants to challenge the implicit sexism in that post but while we were shown the task at school it was 'boy stuff' and I wonder how many of the girls could wire one now.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 5 Dec 14 at 22:34
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It's a pity we never standardised our plugs with the rest of Europe. At least it would mean one less thing you had to carry about with you when travelling there.
Apparently there are 15 different types of plug in use thoughtout the world. The one that intrigues me is type J used in Switzerland Liechtensteing and Rwanda. Wonder how that came about.
www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 5 Dec 14 at 22:59
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I remember wiring a 2KW heater into a 5A, 3-pin plug (who remembers them). It was tight, but whatever fuse was feeding it held. Bletchley Park, circa 1965.
That accommodation was freezing!
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You can still get the 5 amp 3 pin set, Tom. I bought a plug and socket a couple of years ago from B&Q to use for 12V in the old caravan.
The socket uses a regular 13 amp box.
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>> You can still get the 5 amp 3 pin set, Tom. I bought a plug
>> and socket a couple of years ago from B&Q to use for 12V in the
>> old caravan.
>>
When you are dead and gone, somebody will snap up your TV (prewired with the 5 amp plug) from the carboot sale in the sky. And then wonder why there is a big bang when plugged in to that conveniently located 5A round pin socket on the wall.
( 5A round pin sockets are still often used for mains lighting circuits).
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Sat 6 Dec 14 at 08:08
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It was cold, bt, but the fuse didn't hold with a 1p piece dropped in a table lamp in lieu of lamp...... Took the whole block down....
Bletchley Park.... we didn't really realise the history we were sitting and sleeping amongst, did we?
Lots of rumours......
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>> Apparently there are 15 different types of plug in use thoughtout the world.
>>
>> www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/
>>
Not quite a complete list.
IIRC 15A round pin plugs are still used in studio lighting set ups hence one of the reasons they are still available.
D&S ( Dorman & Smith ) plugs were used in the UK
www.fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/DormanSmith1.html
fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/Overview.html
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...in the late 60s, early 70s, the hall porters at my University made a steady income from hiring out substitute 13 amp "Wylex" plugs for a year, as much of the campus had been wired with this "standard", and not the then-competing and prevalent (now almost-universal) BS1363 sockets.
Lots of practice at rewiring plugs there, even before the onset of much of today's electronic dependence.
Quite a bit of use of small nails to replace fuses, as well. :-(
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I certainly can, and did yesterday!
A few weeks ago I unplugged the iron from the extension lead (a bank of four) and there was a blue flash and bang as I pulled the plug out. I plugged the iron in somewhere else and it didn't work so I checked the fuse in the plug and replaced it and it worked fine. The wiring was ok too, no wires frayed, unsecured or touching.
Yesterday the same thing happened, although I've used the iron many times since then.
I checked the plug again and nothing wrong, not even a blown fuse this time but when I plugged it in another socket it worked fine.
I'm puzzled, but it plugs in the end socket of the extension and I do have trouble gripping it to pull it out and have to waggle it out bit by bit, because of the plug next door to it. Could this be the problem?
I have to iron by the window so I can watch the birds feeding in the garden so changing sockets isn't an option!
Pat
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>
>> I checked the plug again and nothing wrong, not even a blown fuse this time
>> but when I plugged it in another socket it worked fine.
>>
>> I'm puzzled, but it plugs in the end socket of the extension and I do
>> have trouble gripping it to pull it out and have to waggle it out bit
>> by bit, because of the plug next door to it. Could this be the problem?
The cord in your iron is frayed, up near the part where it goes in the rubbery flex thing at the iron.
The rubbery flex thing is designed to stop it fraying there.
They never do.
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>> The cord in your iron is frayed, up near the part where it goes in
>> the rubbery flex thing at the iron.
>>
>> The rubbery flex thing is designed to stop it fraying there.
>>
>>
>> They never do.
Check!! I replaced similar flexes on the Morphy Richards bought when I first moved out of parental home almost annually. Did a few for mates as well.
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>> The cord in your iron is frayed, up near the part where it goes in
>> the rubbery flex thing at the iron.
>>
>> The rubbery flex thing is designed to stop it fraying there.
>>
>> They never do.
>>
Mystic Zero?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30361937
Russell Hobbs has recalled 15 different models of irons after customers raised safety concerns about the products.
The electrical manufacturer told people to stop using the irons because there was a risk that the flex could fail, and offered a replacement or refund.
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>> Mystic Zero?
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30361937
Experienced Zero. Nicolle has had three iron leads explode with a satisfying shower of sparks and noise in the last 20 odd years.
All failed in the same place, its the nature of the beast
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>> Experienced Zero. Nicolle has had three iron leads explode with a satisfying shower of sparks
>> and noise in the last 20 odd years.
>>
>> All failed in the same place, its the nature of the beast
That was my experience over a much shorter time frame.
Living in multi occupied houses one tended to put the iron away immediately after use, wrapping flex round handle and returning to it's store space in own room. No doubt the wrapping, assisted by thermal changes, accelerated the wear.
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Our iron is on the recall list, time for a freebe replacement?
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Time for a new iron I would say. They don't last that long and are cheap enough these days.
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...and Pat might find one of the new-fangled steam ones lighter to use, SWMBO got one a bit back and loves it. Often see her (ironing" things which are still hanging up...
This kind of thing www.amazon.co.uk/Morphy-Richards-42244-Generator-Soleplate/dp/B006JX4XDW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417877288&sr=8-1&keywords=steam+generator
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"Part of me wants to challenge the implicit sexism in that post"
It's absolutely dreadful, I know, but those days were awful, absolutely awful. My wife weeps every day because she isn't competent at plug-wiring. She has a BA hons (1st) in education, but has never been taught how to wire a plug.
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Why are the UK plugs marked Live and Neutral, and we're told it's very important that the correct colour goes to the correct terminal, when it doesn't matter at all?
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>> Why are the UK plugs marked Live and Neutral, and we're told it's very important
>> that the correct colour goes to the correct terminal, when it doesn't matter at all?
>>
Because if you touch the "live" terminal you will get a nasty shock, but if you touch the "neutral" you may get a slight tingle depending on whether there happens to be a small potential difference between it and earth.
You can try this at home.
Then remember that the on/off switch on many appliances (eg a table lamp) disconnects only the live input, and you can see that getting the wires the wrong way round means that the appliance is permanently live even when switched off.
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All the rest of europe uses the 2 pin plugs that can go in any way, so why aren't people dying in their droves if it's so important?
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The use of ring mains in the UK necessitated the use of fused plugs unlike in Europe. The fuse needs to be on the live side of the circuit.
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>> The use of ring mains in the UK necessitated the use of fused plugs unlike
>> in Europe. The fuse needs to be on the live side of the circuit.
>>
That explains it! Yes, no fused plugs here, but even a very small house has a huge fusebox where almost every socket has it's own breaker. It makes it very easy to find the culprit when a breaker goes.
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>> All the rest of europe uses the 2 pin plugs that can go in any
>> way, so why aren't people dying in their droves if it's so important?
A lot of then now, at least in France, are 3 pin with the earth being a socket pin engaging into base of plug. They're less bothered than us about the neutral/live distinction. The Caravan Club's leaflet on electrical safety makes great play about 'reversed polarity' on continental sites suggesting you try another 'borne' etc. Others though say provided you're not going to try and work in the van's electrics or on any appliance without unplugging, the risk is small enough to live with.
I've yet to invest in the suggested test device,
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Something everyone should know, but as with being able to locate the dipstick in your engine or change a wheel it's becoming something to leave to a professional for many of the modern generation.
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I have a UK four way short extension lead with a good quality European plug fitted. It is ideal when in Europe and with the appropriate adapter works in the USA and Australia, all the UK stuff just plugs in.
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>> I have a UK four way short extension lead with a good quality European plug
>> fitted. It is ideal when in Europe and with the appropriate adapter works in the
>> USA and Australia, all the UK stuff just plugs in.
Mrs B and I have one of those as well. IIRC L&N were clearly marked on the French supermarket sourced plug. Loaned it to The Lad last week as he was on a Uni trip to Brussels. Much appreciated by his room mates.
Putting it away again this morning we were contemplating the market for a mass produced version.
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>> Putting it away again this morning we were contemplating the market for a mass produced
>> version.
>>
As they are a good idea and useful they will probably be illegal because of some obscure electrical regulation.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 6 Dec 14 at 15:30
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>> >> Putting it away again this morning we were contemplating the market for a mass
>> produced
>> >> version.
>> >>
>>
>> As they are a good idea and useful they will probably be illegal because of
>> some obscure electrical regulation.
Its got to the stage now where all we take is a powered USB hub with a universal power supply.
It charges the phone(s) the Camera(s) the Pads and Ebook readers.
My Shaver is charged up before we go and lasts the vacation. What else do you need? Given the Easy jet weight restrictions what else can you take?
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>> All the rest of europe uses the 2 pin plugs that can go in any
>> way, so why aren't people dying in their droves if it's so important?
>>
European circuit breakers operate on both poles.
Connect say a UK caravan with a single pole master switch to a French campsite supply, and there's an even chance that there could still be 200 volts on the 'neutral' side of your wiring even when switched off at the inlet.
Prudent to use a socket tester and if necessary a cross wired lead to correct the polarity.
My Eriba, being German/French, doesn't care about the polarity of the supply.
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>> European circuit breakers operate on both poles.
Not in Sweden. All the lives go through a breaker, but all the neutrals are joined, and all the earths are also joined, these are then joined together, as the neutral into the house is earthed by the electric company somewhere 'off site' ie. there's no earth pole or connection to water pipes etc.
My houses have 3 phase supply, which is normal, but there are only 4 wires coming into the house, with all the neutrals and earths connected at the fuse box.
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There was a BBC mw receiver for radio that had two fuses. One in the live, and the other in the neutral. Probably designed by somebody fresh from university as it was potentially lethal if the neutral fuse blew and the live didn't (anyone who knows how fuses work will know it's 50/50 for just enough current to blow).
So us juniors had to modify them.
But the silly thing is, as a mw receiver it was hopeless. Active device count was sky high so it was unreliable as well. Just about any car radio was better.
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>> There was a BBC mw receiver for radio that had two fuses. One in the
>> live, and the other in the neutral. Probably designed by somebody fresh from university as
>> it was potentially lethal if the neutral fuse blew and the live didn't (anyone who
>> knows how fuses work will know it's 50/50 for just enough current to blow).
>>
Strangely enough double fusing is now recommended practice, or at least it was last time I did a design for electrical safety course 6 years ago. For sure the equipment I currently design (test equipment for mobile phones) is double fused*, can't say I've expended much brain power trying to work out how it's safer, too many other fish to fry!
*similar to this:-
tinyurl.com/oyvknt6
which is configurable for single fusing if you really need it that way.
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Double separate fusing is still bad in my book.
The other thing these days is quite a lot of stuff these days has no contactable metal bits and counts as double insulated.
The example you give has a two pole switch - so surely a breaker on both wires for a single fault. If so, that's not a problem at all.
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My wife weeps every day...
...because she isn't competent at plug-wiring.
Is that what she tells you?
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>> It's absolutely dreadful, I know, but those days were awful, absolutely awful.
Such things were pretty widespread. Girls in my school got no opportunity to do wood or metalwork. Neither did the boys have a look in at the Home Economics suite on the second floor.
I and several other lads were denied the chance to learn touch typing as 'the girls will be far more likley to need it for work'. Mind you I'm not sure touch typing is in the National Curriculum today.
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"Mind you I'm not sure touch typing is in the National Curriculum today."
I doubt it. But my wife goes into school extra early to teach touch-typing - it isn't a state school. It is an additional 'voluntary' thing that she does, though it takes second place to Christmas choir rehearsals.
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>>I and several other lads were denied the chance to learn touch typing
>>as 'the girls will be far more likley to need it for work'.
>> Mind you I'm not sure touch typing is in the National Curriculum today.
>>
I decided that speech recognition was a way off so I ensured both my children learned to touch type at an early age ( BBC computer).
They have both got great value from these skills.
My daughter even got a part time job as a medical secretary during her Uni studies and it was well paid.
i think many have now got thumb typing skills :-(
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I still use plugs quite a bit for lighting in the workshop, I have put lights under shelves which simply connect into a 4 way extension lead with a switch on each socket easy!.
I find the thing with plugs is to always buy the slightly more expensive industrial ones, you have a lot more room to work with.
What annoys me is the amount of low powered electrical items I buy such as ATX power supplies that come with a 13 amp fuse on the lead! I always replace them with 3 or 5 amp ones before selling them to customers.
I just built a new Intel I5 based computer for a customer, and it uses around 160w of electricity, yet the 450w Corsair power supply came with a 13 amp fuse in the plug.
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>>
>> I just built a new Intel I5 based computer for a customer, and it uses
>> around 160w of electricity, yet the 450w Corsair power supply came with a 13 amp
>> fuse in the plug.
>>
The fuse in the plug is to protect the cable (which is hopefully rated at >13A..), not the appliance.
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<< The fuse in the plug is to protect the cable (which is hopefully rated at >13A..), not the appliance >>
Absolutely right.
The fuse has to blow before the cable blows. Therefore no problem using a low current fuse for a low current device as long as the fuse is large enough to carry any peak switch-on current.
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How many of you when wiring a plug make sure that the earth wire is the longest, and the live the shortest?
Reason being, if someone accidentally yanks the flex the first wire that will get pulled out the plug is the live one, and the last will be the earth.
As a qualified PA Tester, I've seen no end of dodgy wired plugs and ad hoc fuses in my time. The worst was probably the live wire that bypassed the fuse altogether and was wrapped around the live post and relied on the blown fuse to keep it in place.
There are also a handful of moulded 3 pin plugs appearing on the market that don't have any fuse at all in them. They're not meant for this Country but the seller on ebay/Amazon, etc doesn't care about little things like that.
Here's what I'm talking about - keep an eye out for them.
www.nickhill.co.uk/unfused_dangerous_in_uk_chinese_plug.jpg
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>> How many of you when wiring a plug make sure that the earth wire is
>> the longest, and the live the shortest?
>>
>> Reason being, if someone accidentally yanks the flex the first wire that will get pulled
>> out the plug is the live one, and the last will be the earth.
Not sure I'm getting that one.
Assume all the connections are properly made, which means the earth will certainly be longest, but very little difference between L & N and the cable clamp is fully tightened.
What sort of a 'yank' on the flex is going to be predictable enough in effect at terminals for live to give up first? What happens if the long earth separates but contacts live in process?
If you're that unlucky you're not long for this world anyway.....
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It is right in theory, but most plugs leave scarce room to make the earth longer. I have however seen many earth clamps missing or not tightened.
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Ahh the edit timed out, I mean cable clamps not earth clamps
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>> Ahh the edit timed out, I mean cable clamps not earth clamps
>>
Often the little fibre clamps ate tightened till the self tap screw pulls through.
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>> How many of you when wiring a plug make sure that the earth wire is
>> the longest, and the live the shortest?
I usually do if there is space ( Not Easy in MK plugs )
>>
>> Reason being, if someone accidentally yanks the flex the first wire that will get pulled
>> out the plug is the live one, and the last will be the earth.
One hell of a yank on an MK plug with its cam action cable retainer.
>>
>> There are also a handful of moulded 3 pin plugs appearing on the market that
>> don't have any fuse at all in them. They're not meant for this Country
>>
>> Here's what I'm talking about - keep an eye out for them.>>
>> www.nickhill.co.uk/unfused_dangerous_in_uk_chinese_plug.jpg
>>
They look like the South African mouldings for some of their 15A plugs
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I can wire up plugs very easily but I honestly can't remember the last time I had to change a plug on anything?
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"I can wire up plugs very easily but I honestly can't remember the last time I had to change a plug on anything?"
Mmm, yes, come to think of it, it's the same here. I've got a box full of plugs in the garage and I seem to keep adding to them - I can't throw them away - I don't know why; some sort of 'magpie' instinct?
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I throw the plugs away with the appliance but always take out the fuses.
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>> I throw the plugs away with the appliance but always take out the fuses.
I've got loads of old fuses I don't know what to do with as well!
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>> I throw the plugs away with the appliance but always take out the fuses.
>>
Good man.
In the last week I have come across the other scenario, at no less than three different sites while doing some annual safety checks; moulded plugs cut off a lead leaving all three conductors exposed to anyone putting a thumb or finger across the cut end, left lying around and still fitted with a working fuse. Anyone stupid enough to plug one in to a live socket with a thumb over the cut end would get a shock, literally; and trust me, there are some people stupid enough to do it.
There have been some cheap imported 13A plugtops around that don't have shrouding in place on the live and neutral pins on the last bit as they join the plug, this gives a possibility of someone with smallish fingers being able to wrap them around the plug as it is inserted and touch both pins..... Who would be stupid enough, you might ask; again, trust me, they've done it.
Man's ingenuity in finding fresh stupid ways to kill or injure himself knows no limit, the upside is it removes their stupidity from the gene pool, I believe it is referred to in some circles as the Darwin Effect......
With regard to wiring colours, be grateful you're not playing with DC. At the last colour revision, when the phases for AC changed to Brown, Grey and Black with Blue Neutral the DC colours changed from Blue -ve, White +ve/M (midpoint) to Grey -ve and Blue +ve/M.
Yes, you've got that right, overnight DC Blue changed polarity, as well as remaining the same colour as AC Neutral.....
We now have labels on the old kit telling us that it could be using both conventions...... Also gets interesting when the same kit also has an AC feed, any Blue lead floating about could be anything from AC Neutral/-ve DC/or +ve/M DC.
Just to make it a bit more interesting, in iffy light an old, grubby White +ve/M can look remarkably like a Grey. Still it's only DC...... In our case up to 120 Amps worth in some installs.
We tend to tread carefully and do a lot of touching with our eyes and a lot of 'testing dead'......
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>> There have been some cheap imported 13A plugtops around that don't have shrouding in place
>> on the live and neutral pins on the last bit as they join the plug,
>> this gives a possibility of someone with smallish fingers being able to wrap them around
>> the plug as it is inserted and touch both pins..... Who would be stupid enough,
IIRC the main reason the BS required shrouds was to protect children. Having a electrical engineer in family (GPO) I was taught from a very early age NEVER to put fingers round plug. But all the sockets in house I lived in until age 9 (a new build in 1958/9) were 13amp unswitched.
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Fully agree about the child angle, Bromp, but the three cases I've heard of in the last couple of years were fully grown adults, well, fully grown in years.....
As an aside, in the days when we don't seem to let anyone under about 15 to cross the road on their own or walk any further than the kerb to get in Mummy's 4x4, are children allowed to plug anything into a wall socket. :-)
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>>And how long will it be before we're compelled to get a professional do it?
Which brings me to the modern workplace - can you ask an employee to change a light bulb / fluorescent tube / plug.
I was told that you can't and then someone else who was actually a union rep, advised me that the latest thinking is that if it is something that you would normally do at home yourself then you could be expected to also do it in the workplace.
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>> I was told that you can't and then someone else who was actually a union
>> rep, advised me that the latest thinking is that if it is something that you
>> would normally do at home yourself then you could be expected to also do it
>> in the workplace.
Its a matter of your competency. If you do it at home, and you make a method and safety assessment that you are competent to do it in the workplace then yes you can do it.
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Agreed, Zero.
It is a matter of competency.
In the workplace I would expect that the person doing the work would be following an agreed method of safe working backed up with a method statement and also to have been certified as competent by the employer or someone competent to certify.
I don't think any employer, in their right mind, is going to ask Joe Bloggs to jump up on a filing cabinet and start changing florescent tubes over the heads of people working at their desks below, at least, I hope not......
Now if Joe Bloggs knows that he's got use a safe method of access, move people out from under, protect his access and is aware of the dangers and what he should do if he drops the tube and breaks it, etc, then why not?
Doing things in the workplace is about doing it right so things don't go wrong, and if they do that it can be demonstrated that everything that could be done was when Mr HSE Inspector comes calling......
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>> Its a matter of your competency. If you do it at home, and you make
>> a method and safety assessment that you are competent to do it in the workplace
>> then yes you can do it.
>>
Not in some places, Once had an IBM engineer in the office area at Swan Hunter on the Tyne setting up a demonstration office computer, which had a blown 13A fuse in the plug. When he started to change it one of the local IT management stopped him on the basis that he would have the whole yard out if the local union guys heard about it
Guess there might still be some places like that even now.
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>
>> fuse in the plug. When he started to change it one of the local IT
>> management stopped him on the basis that he would have the whole yard out if
>> the local union guys heard about it
>> Guess there might still be some places like that even now.
The IT guy was half wrong. As an Ex engineer, having worked in some of the most Union Entrenched places (Fleet street for example) The mains lead to the device and its plug was mine. As agreed with the local branch. For a while tho they did insist that one of the members had to accompany me at all times.
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I worked in a chemical plant in the north east a couple of years ago, managing the deployment of new Dell machines to the users. The lead on new computers had to be PAT tested by the resident engineer before we could build them. The lead and the computer were then "joined" and were only allowed to be deployed together.
After we had deployed the machine to the user desk, he visited again and carried out another test. If the machine was moved to another socket it had to be tested again on its new socket.
Daft, if you ask me.
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>> Once had an IBM engineer in the office area at Swan
>> Hunter on the Tyne setting up a demonstration office computer, which had a blown 13A
>> fuse in the plug. When he started to change it one of the local IT
>> management stopped him on the basis that he would have the whole yard out if
>> the local union guys heard about it
>>
A snippet from Wikipedia about Swan Hunter Tyneside.
"The Company was privatised again in 1987 but decided to close its Neptune Yard in 1988.[12] It was then forced to call in the receivers. The Receiver took steps to break up the business.[14] However the main shipyard in Wallsend was bought out from receivership by Jaap Kroese, a Dutch millionaire.[7] The yard subsequently undertook several ad-hoc ship repair and conversion projects for private-sector customers.[15]
In 2000 Swan Hunter was awarded the contract to design and build two (Auxiliary) Landing Ship Dock ships for the Royal Fleet Auxiliary with two other ships being built by BAE Systems Naval Ships: the cost of the two Swan Hunter ships was to be £210 million including £62 million for lead yard services, with an inservice date of 2004.[16] By July 2006, the costs had risen to £309 million and only one ship had been delivered. As result of this, the second ship RFA Lyme Bay was transferred to BAE Systems Govan in Glasgow for completion."
The point I am making? Their chickens came home to roost!
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Simple fact. Ceilings at work are very high ( old building, strange conversion). We don't don't own a ladder. Ergo, changing tubes in the lights is a 'call the landlord' problem.
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A while back I was on some website (probably Stumble) that was dealing with the problems of a single wire source of electricity. Namely, a single wire from the distant source, and a local earth.
Plug wiring cropped up, and it was suggested that the + could be connected as usual, and the - connected to earth. Seems to make sense to me, as the negative terminal is just part of the circuit back to source and then to earth. Has anyone tried it yet ?
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>> Has anyone tried it yet ?
No, mainly because the problem of only having a live and no neutral (or return) has never cropped up.
In theory it should work, in practise it probably wont as the circuit back to source will be high resistance (given that it is distant)
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The problem has cropped up. The forum was involved with power supplies in the North American wheat fields. Inefficiency due to poor earthing was mentioned, but electrons - given a choice and a decent path will return to 'earth'. That's as far as their homing instinct goes. I Think !
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>> Inefficiency due to poor earthing was mentioned, but electrons - given a
>> choice and a decent path will return to 'earth'. That's as far as their homing
>> instinct goes. I Think !
>>
They'd better do otherwise we've been fitting Earth Leakage Circuit Breakers that will never work..... The whole principle behind ELCBs is the flow to earth being sufficient to trip and protect from shock in a fault situation. That is why the chassis of, say, your toaster is connected to the earth pin and all your plumbing and steel sinks etc are all earth bonded andthe earths tested to within an inch of their lives; a high resistance, or disconnected, earth is a accident waiting to happen.
In fact earth potential differences in places close to power stations and their dangers are a whole new interesting subject on their own.......... If you're suffering a bit of insomnia one night Google 'hot sites'.....
Last edited by: Cockle on Wed 10 Dec 14 at 23:05
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>>
>> >> Has anyone tried it yet ?
>>
>> No, mainly because the problem of only having a live and no neutral (or return)
>> has never cropped up.
>>
>> In theory it should work, in practise it probably wont as the circuit back to
>> source will be high resistance (given that it is distant)
>>
The resistance of a ground path doesn't vary with distance, within (fairly wide) limits; the earth is an infinite sink/source of electrons.
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a
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Wed 10 Dec 14 at 22:22
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Well, getting it's a bit out of my depth now, but given a two wire appliance, could I connect the UK plug brown to the right pin and the other to the earth pin. And be safe !
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>> Well, getting it's a bit out of my depth now, but given a two wire
>> appliance, could I connect the UK plug brown to the right pin and the other
>> to the earth pin. And be safe !
>>
If you have a modern consumer unit with either RCDs or voltage ELCBs fitted you would be perfectly safe; as soon as you turned it on the MCBs would trip and disconnect the live..... the appliance should never work but you'll be safe.
Now, if you just have an old consumer unit with fuses then, yes, it would work; wouldn't be safe but it would work. If your appliance had a fault which resulted in a resistive mains contact to the chassis which didn't draw enough current to blow the fuse then if you became a lower resistance path to earth and touched the chassis then the current would take the easiest path which could be through you......
To tell a little tale of many moons ago; I once came across a whole, dodgy, nightclub in Southend that was wired as you describe, all the light fittings were wired across live and earth. I was told they believed it bypassed the meter. I engineered a family emergency and politely left; I didn't fancy the confrontation as it was, fairly reliably, rumoured that the 'management' was well 'connected' to some serious East End 'Management' company previous proprietors being twins.......
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Wiring Plugs - Alastairw
