One of our CAB session supervisors, who otherwise speaks very proper 'RP', pronounces the word tribunal as 'tribunial'.
Perhaps because I spent a very large part of my working life in tribunals I'm struggling not to be irritated.
What other mispronunciations grate with the panel.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 29 Dec 14 at 15:52
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pronunciation vs. pronOWnciation
Drives me nuts.
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I had a boss once who always wanted pacific information when we thought that perhaps we would be better giving him the specific variety.
The one though which used to grate most with me was Tony Blair being referred to as Tony Bleh, not that I especially liked the man, but his name is properly pronounced "Blay-ir".
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Indeed Henry, there is only one H in aitch.
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>> Tony Blair being referred to as Tony Bleh
>> properly pronounced "Blay-ir".
Who says?
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Properly pronounced "THAT %$^#", perhaps?
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Call your Mayors "Mehs" if you like or if that's your accent, but please call your Blairs "Blay-irs" because it's a Scottish Gaelic surname and that's how it's pronounced.
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>> Call your Mayors "Mehs" if you like or if that's your accent, but please call
>> your Blairs "Blay-irs" because it's a Scottish Gaelic surname and that's how it's pronounced.
Ah I knew the lying git must have been a jock sent down from his northern lay-ir
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Artilillerary and Ordinance.
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Try to pronounce Scheveningen.
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What is my prize?
Riviersonerend.
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Milngavie and Ardnamurchan.
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>> Try to pronounce Scheveningen.
I can. Sounds a bit like a Dutchman trying to suppress an enormous sneeze.
(I have definitely posted this already, and it's definitely vanished. Surely Dutchie wasn't offended?)
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A fellow IT PM at work - dekstops not desktops
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asterix (when not referring to Obelix's friend)
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Skelington.
And - albeit off topic a tad - Trivial Pursuits and Doctor Spock.
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ofTen.
Of'n will do, it doesn't have to be orphan.
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Some speechwriting lackey made the Queen say 'a free media' in her Millennium speech. Should have been hanged, drawn and quartered for it.
There's another very common number ballsup which is so annoying I can't even remember it. A Latin or Greek-derived word, -a and -ae endings regularly got wrong way round.
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>>
>> There's another very common number ballsup which is so annoying I can't even remember it.
>> A Latin or Greek-derived word, -a and -ae endings regularly got wrong way round.
>>
Not quite what you're driving at, but "criteria" used as singular when of course it should be "criterion".
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>> Not quite what you're driving at, but "criteria" used as singular when of course it should be "criterion".
My post was wrong CP, and that was the very thing I was driving at . Doh...
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Trivial Pursuits and Doctor Spock.
>>
>>
St John's Ambulance
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Understandable though. Its Scottish counterpart is correctly St. Andrew's Ambulance.
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I would of said that. *grrrrrr*
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>> asterix (when not referring to Obelix's friend)
Reminds me of folks from the West Indies who 'aks' a question.
That's a dialect thing though like lend/borrow in some parts of Yorkshire 'can I have a lend of your bike'.
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>Reminds me of folks from the West Indies who 'aks' a question.
An ex-colleague from Jamaica loved 'beer can sandwiches'.
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Wymondham, Happisburgh, Mundesley, Norwich, Cley, Aldborough, Costessy, Postwick and most other places in Norfolk. I blame the immigrants from South of the Waveney.
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>> Norwich, I
>> blame the immigrants from South of the Waveney.
I thought it was Nahrich as spoken Norfolk or Suffolk.
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It's Norridge - it rhymes with porridge.
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Always fun to hear the local pronunciation of Folkingham though. ;-)
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....in a parallel but similar vein, I grimace when someone says "you can't underestimate the effect of...."
....when they clearly mean overestimate (and often on TV or radio).
I can't underestimate the number of times I've heard it. ;-)
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"Laundryette" - I'm not sure how the user arrives at it, but I find it really funny.
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My sister in law drives on dural carriageways, owns a Weimeramer and often wears demims.
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Loose for lose...Stobbit, stobbit. You know who you are !
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Panini, when they only want one!
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Or cappuccinos when they want two !
;-)
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>> Panini, when they only want one!
>>
Yes. I wanted Kevin Keegan, and would have finished the World Cup 1982 album.
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On the word I originally posted the default is to pronounce it try-bunal, like trident or tripartite. Not uncommon to assume this means a tribunal must comprise three people.
If fact the word is derived from the Latin 'tribune' which loosely corresponds to 'of the people'.
Don't know if it was word play, pedantics or an affectation of his Eton education but one Senior President of Tribunals always pronounced the word with same emphasis as in tribune.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 29 Dec 14 at 17:57
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"Antartic".
Somebody actually corrected me the other day when I pronounced it "Antarctic". The same person usually says "I" when she means "me", as in "...you can come with Fred and I".
I've been biting my tongue for years on that one.
(It's not the boss, by the way. We'd have been divorced by now.)
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>> "Antartic".
I have a faint memory of being told that both pronunciations are correct, but Antartic is preferable. Perhaps it's a false memory, but I usually leave out the first c.
Most people don't notice any of this stuff, or give a damn when they do. Just as well really.
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>> >> "Antartic".
>>
>> I have a faint memory of being told that both pronunciations are correct, but Antartic
>> is preferable. Perhaps it's a false memory, but I usually leave out the first c.
I had a horrible feeling somebody would say that. At least my version is compatible with the spelling.
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>> told that both pronunciations are correct, but Antartic is preferable. Perhaps it's a false memory, but I usually leave out the first c.
I think, on investigation, that I picked Antartic up from herself some years ago. She tells me that was the way her Canadian father pronounced it. I still think either will do.
When will someone put in a case for saying 'Artic' as well?
:o}
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An old lady who lived across the road from my parents, and from whom I inherited a Budgie when she was taken into care, used to entice me and other children into her house to sample her homemade "Artic Roll". We rarely refused even on grounds of pedantry.
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"The same person usually says "I" when she means "me", as in "...you can come with Fred and I"."
My wife (an English teacher) reminds me that if I'm not sure, the best test of correctness is to miss out 'Fred' and see which sounds right - you can come with 'I' or, you can come with 'me'.
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>> Senior President of Tribunals always pronounced the word with same emphasis as in tribune.
TRIBunal, not tribUnal? Actually all the pronunciations given are acceptable. Not many words like that!
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>> TRIBunal, not tribUnal? Actually all the pronunciations given are acceptable. Not many words like that!
Exactly as your first example. like the pronunciation of the old labour party's ginger group.
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OI!
The TUC pronounces the word composite 'composyte', I seem to remember.
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>> The TUC pronounces the word composite 'composyte', I seem to remember.
Of course, as in composyte motion number 369. As did the Labour party
And the objections from floor to effect the the compositing committee had failed to adequately capture the nuance of Pudsey CLP's (or wherever's) contribution.
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A Welsh friend of ours - "apparanantly" for "apparently"
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>> Of course, as in composyte motion number 369. As did the Labour party
I can see you've been there Bromptonaut...
:o}
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Another Welshman I used to work with:- (a West Walian in exculpation) - "Thanelthy" for "Thanethly" (Llanelli)
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I can't say Pwllheli. I've tried and tried but I just can't.
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It's an oft-quoted adage around here that if, as a "Sais" incomer, you can pronounce Machynlleth correctly you're halfway to being assimilated.
If you aim for "Mach-un-cleth" you're on the right lines; similarly Llanelli is "Clunethli", not strictly right I confess but good enough to pass when in Welsh company. Pronouncing the latter as "Lannelly" as an English friend was wont to do is to guarantee a cold stare in return. The locals of that town are known as "Turks" but not to their faces if they're bigger than you are.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Mon 29 Dec 14 at 21:26
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>> If you aim for "Mach-un-cleth" you're on the right lines;
Never had any trouble with that one. Llangollen gets me every time though.
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>> Never had any trouble with that one. Llangollen gets me every time though.
>>
"Clan-gothlen" serves well enough. It's the misuse of the "double-l" which seems to irk Welsh sensibilities the most. Mind you, I sometimes have to admit defeat myself and I've lived here for eleven years; in that time I've passed through the village of Llangyndeyrn hundreds of times and I'm still not sure how to pronounce it.
Egwlyswrw in Pembrokeshire is a great one for baffling tourists. It's a little bit of an oddity in terms of its name; "Llan" in Welsh means "place of" often followed by the name of the saint to whom the local church is dedicated as in Llansteffan or Llandewi. "Eglwlys" is "church" in Welsh though, same roots as the French "eglise" of course and pronounced almost the same, but not common in the makeup of a place name for some reason.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Mon 29 Dec 14 at 21:53
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Egwlyswrw ... Eggleeseroo!
Penfro = Pembroke (Little England beyond Wales, you know!)
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>> It's an oft-quoted adage around here that if, as a "Sais" incomer, you can pronounce
>> Machynlleth correctly you're halfway to being assimilated.
Why would you want that?
Llanelli = Lannelly.
Llangollen = Langollen.
Cymru = Simroo.
Why not? We don't say "Paree", do we?
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>
>> Llanelli = Lannelly.
>>
>> Llangollen = Langollen.
>>
>> Cymru = Simroo.
>>
>> Why not? We don't say "Paree", do we?
>>
We do if we're in France; unless you're one of those types who thinks that conversing in a foreign language means speaking English words loudly and slowly.
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>> Llanelli = Lannelly.
>> Llangollen = Langollen.
>> Cymru = Simroo.
>> Why not? We don't say "Paree", do we?
>> We do if we're in France; unless you're one of those types who thinks that
>> conversing in a foreign language means speaking English words loudly and slowly.
No, of course not. The pronunciations were for the benefit of Welsh friends. I normally make a token attempt at saying the Welsh place name, e.g Langoflen, or Lanefley.
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Meanwhile Duncan, a simple short English place name close to home. ESHER.
I often hear it pronounced as it looks. This is usually by an out of area person.
It does feel strange speaking it to someone and then spelling it in a different way.
Another local place ISLEWORTH causes confusion. Its that old place by the THAMES.
They are all simply odd!
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>> Why not? We don't say "Paree", do we?
Not in English perhaps but even in my limited French I'd refer to Paris as locals do. It's be a very odd Brit tourist who spoke of Lions or Per-pig-nan.
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>>It's be a very odd Brit tourist who spoke of Lions or Per-pig-nan.<<
Not around my part of France it wouldn't. There are Brits round here who can't be bothered to pronounce the name of their own town or village correctly, although they've lived here for years.
Having said that, the French have their own interpretation of everywhere else. You'll never hear them saying 'London', for example.
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"French have their own interpretation of everywhere else. You'll never hear them saying 'London', for example."
My wife doesn't even pronounce my name the Brit way - and it's always spelt Dawid. But my surname is totally unrecognisable. The number of times I've sat in dentist/doctor waiting room as my name is announced and I don't know who the hell they're talking about. A nurse needs to prod me on my forehead.
Of course it doesn't bother me, they have their way and we have ours. Why get upset about it? I love language, it fascinates me. Ours is full of slang and oddities, hundreds of ways to say hi or hello or cheerio. In Poland, it's kind of totally stagnant - there's one and only way to greet someone. One and only one way to say 'good day', or 'good night'. If you read Polish subtitles when you watch a gangster film, or a Starwars film, or a Western or a Carry On or a Terminator film you can see the same translated phrases. All the same old phrases that I learned when I spend 3 years freelancing at a Polish magazine. No slang.
I have developed my own vocabulary - not forced or intended, just the way it happened. I take Polish nouns, shorten them and put an 's' on the end. So for example Spodnie (trousers) become Spods. "Iron my spods will you darling". Her tights are rajstopky which must have amused me because I've been sticking a 'stopky' on the end of English nouns for probably ten years. Phonestopky, beerstopky, shedstopky etc. And some English nouns I've just completely replaced them with Polish - the tv remote is now the pilot, the fridge is the lodowka, coffee is kawa etc. I've no idea why that happened, perhaps I just hear it all day long and the brain adopts it. When you throw in two English kids whose first language is Polish, it does make me smile when they speak the same daft crap I do.
So I say good night chaps (dobranoc) or see you later alligator (dobranoc) or see you around boys (dobranoc)
or laters (dobranoc) or I'm out of here (dobranoc) or don't be a stranger (dobranoc) etc. etc. etc.
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I am guilty of fairly randomly using either "brakefast" or "breckfast" for breakfast. Still unsure of which is actually correct so I normally ask for Muesli.
;-)
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An historical.................................
Often on the BBC.
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Get anyone from Northern Ireland to say, "I'd to meet my mate at eight by the gate but I was late."
Winds them up.
;-)
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Free for three. Fird for third. Fort for thought. Fink for think and so it goes on. I just ignore them now if they're 'speaking' to me.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 30 Dec 14 at 02:14
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Cholmondeley (chumlee) has got to be the big one. There are a few places dotted around Scotland that are just as weird, but apparently the spelling and pronunciation make more sense in Latin and the monks have the responsibly as few others could read. An example of this would be the suburb of Glasgow called Milngavie pronounced Mill-guy
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>> Cholmondeley (chumlee) has got to be the big one.
that's fair enough, it's a weird name anyway.
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>> that's fair enough, it's a weird name anyway.
There was a user on the old topica urban cyclist forum who posted as Aloysius Cholmondeley-Featherstonehawe
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Why can't F1 commentators pronounce Ricciardo's name correctly?
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>> Why can't F1 commentators pronounce Ricciardo's name correctly?
He doesn't pronounce it correctly himself. They use his version.
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>> >> Cholmondeley (chumlee) has got to be the big one.
>>
>> that's fair enough, it's a weird name anyway.
>>
By coincidence Mrs Cholmondeley‎ is well known in our household.
A variety of clematis that produces six inch diameter flowers.
I guess due to the strange weather this year it has not been at its best but at present has two large flower heads trying to open out and this is on a north facing patio.
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My late mother-in-law, fairly intelligent, always said 'sistiffikit' for certificate. Used to make me want to scream.
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"Loose for lose...Stobbit, stobbit. You know who you are ! "
I think, Ted, that you are referring to a recent thread in which the discussion got quite heated! One of the protagonists used "loose/looser" for "lose/loser" multiple times.
I wanted to point this out but decided discretion was the better part of valour!
On the other hand, I pointed out to a colleague many times that he always said "With regards to...." when he meant "with regard to...." and always said pasTORal when I thought it should be PAStoral. It had no effect.
It also got on my nerves that he was frequently "bored of" me telling him when I thought it should be bored by or bored with.
Mind you, he also used the word "like" several times every sentence. When I said that he should try speaking a sentence without using "like" he virtually shut up.
We did get on well despite me being a pedantic so-and so!
Oh, and he pointed out to me that I always said "disastERous" rather than "disastrous"
Yep, he was right - and I bet I had written it like that for the previous 40 years!!!
Not forgetting the lecturer who used p'SEVr'nce repeatedly - I had to ask someone what it meant - "perseverance" apparently
Pedantic P
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>> Menzies
But not if you're Australian.
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Descended from criminals, what do you expect.
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>> >> Menzies
>>
>> But not if you're Australian.
Yes, logically, why shouldn't you say "Men zees"?
But then, also logically, one would say "Chol-mond-lee"?
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A friend of ours whose name is Mhairi ( pronounced "Va-ree" ) has spent nigh on 50 years trying to get her English friends and colleagues to stop calling her Marie.
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>> A friend of ours whose name is Mhairi ( pronounced "Va-ree" ) h
Have you read Peter May's 'The Blackhouse' and its companion volumes?
Set in North Lewis and well researched, Gaelic names abound. Fionnlagh, Marsaili, Ceit, Uilleam and Coinneach to name but a few.
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No I havent, but two sisters I knew were Eilidh and Marsaili. ( eh-lee and mar-saleh ). Their parents were from the Western Isles.
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People seem to make very heavy weather of the Welsh double L. It's a sort of hiss between the teeth out of the side of the mouth and the English 'TH' or 'F' is a very distant approximation. There are other oddities of Welsh pronunciation and delivery that can faze anyone who didn't have to get to grips with all that in Wales when they were children, as I did. A peripatetic childhood is a blessing in many ways.
Oddly enough, even if you can make all the noises, Scots pronunciation is somewhat harder to imitate convincingly. And of course it's very unusual for a 'foreigner' not to be immediately obvious to a 'native', anywhere.
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Fith for fifth.
Sikth for sixth.
Hospitew for hospital.
Sekitery for secretary.
Looser for loser.
Dubyew for W.
Compyoo'er for computer.
The list seems endless, and I'm not the duty pedant until the New Year.
8o)
Have a good one
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Line recalled from The Sweeney I think. Villain's missus, answering the door to the fuzz, bawls over her shoulder: 'Reg (or whatever)! It's ver fiwf!'
It wasn't the accent that impressed so much as the direct rudeness. No doubt ver fiwf are well used to that, least of their worries...
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 30 Dec 14 at 16:58
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For some reason, goodness knows why, but for as long as I can remember sausages were and indeed still are known in our family as savages. I have continued this tradition again for no reason I can explain and my son seems at peace with its long term prospects.
Decimalisation brought an untimely end to our pea shilling two-ces though.
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>> Decimalisation brought an untimely end to our pea shilling two-ces though.
Heavy smoking ensures a plentiful supply of half-crowns though Humph. Not in your case obviously.
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Florins and farthings are rarely mentioned now for obvious reasons but I wonder what "fortnight" did wrong? Rarely hear that now. I always found it quite a useful word.
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>>Florins and farthings
Someone's finally got the swear filter to accept 'farthing'.
;>)
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Find it difficult to believe that in my lifetime we had a coin that needed 960 to make a pound.
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>> Find it difficult to believe that in my lifetime we had a coin that needed
>> 960 to make a pound.
I don't think many in our lifetime actually had to offer one in legal tender tho. I was 6 when it became extinct, and few items were priced in farthings for quite a few years before it died.
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I can just about remember them. You could get 4 blackjacks for 1d
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>> I can just about remember them. You could get 4 blackjacks for 1d
They wouldn't sell you one for a farthing tho.
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>> I don't think many in our lifetime actually had to offer one in legal tender tho.
Small items were priced down to the farthing when I was a nipper, but it's true they were largely redundant before they were withdrawn.
I've been looking through our coin jar but to my annoyance there isn't a farthing to be found. The last ones had I think the image of a robin on the obverse side. I found a half-crown, some big pennies and a halfpenny (with the ship on the obverse), a whole lot of big aluminium francs from forties and fifties France and some Spanish and other foreign stuff.
But can anyone confirm my memory that the farthing coin was physically a bit bigger than a modern 1p (whose face value is 9.6 times that of a farthing)? It's driving me mad.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 30 Dec 14 at 22:00
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Yes a bit bigger than the current 1p. Had a wren on the reverse. Apparently the reason continued in circulation so long was that the price of bread was fixed by the government after the war. The price of the standard one pound loaf was in raised in halfpenny increments. Since bread was also sold in half pound loaves the farthing was a political necessity
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 30 Dec 14 at 22:08
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>> But can anyone confirm my memory that the farthing coin was physically a bit bigger
>> than a modern 1p (whose face value is 9.6 times that of a farthing)? It's
>> driving me mad.
The farthing was gone in all but name by my time and formally abolished in 1960. I can though remember the child bus fare home from school being threepence halfpenny.
According to Wki a farthing coin was a bit over 20mm wide - so larger than current penny.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 30 Dec 14 at 22:15
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In Plymouth in the fifties we used to save farthings to annoy the bus conductor on the way to school. They hated that, so as evil little boys we loved it.
I would imagine in the last year or so they were used by nippers buying ghastly sweetmeats in corner shops. In fact I remember that they were... liquorice pipes and cigarettes were popular (not very nice though). Small shopkeepers didn't mind them. It's all money, it all adds up.
I seem to remember no one except a bank was obliged to take more than half a crown's worth of them.
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>> According to Wki a farthing coin was a bit over 20mm wide - so larger
>> than current penny.
I would have guessed nearer 15mm, but you're right - the halfpenny was an inch, believe it or not. They were big, those old coppers.
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>> They were big, those old coppers.
Georgian copper pennies were even bigger. They called them cartwheel pennies.
In the late seventies new pence were made of copper or whatever passed for copper, probably something to make it wear better in an alloy. But I've just been trying a magnet on some of the later ones. By the late nineties they were made of mild steel plated with the copper stuff. I don't know when the changeover came. But I can't help thinking it's a bit infra-dig, it would have been seen as undermining the currency before money went upmarket and became purely theoretical. Same with small silver coins - 5p and 10p - but I haven't found a steel 50p yet.
I wonder what this proposed 20 quid coin will be made of. Perhaps it will be radioactive.
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As far as I know, the cartwheel penny is usually the steam struck 1797 item. A lot were made, my father had one as his good luck charm. Since he carried everywhere though, only the size and weight enables identification, the images have long gone.
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>> But can anyone confirm my memory that the farthing coin was physically a bit bigger than a modern 1p (whose face value is 9.6 times that of a farthing)? It's driving me mad.
I found a farthing last night. Actually the diameter is identical to that of a 1p, but the farthing coin seems to be a whisker thinner.
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I find it difficult to believe that some people use extinct when they mean existant.
;-)
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>> Find it difficult to believe that in my lifetime we had a coin that needed
>> 960 to make a pound.
I blame it all on decimalisation - removed the need to think about things mathematical.
Bring back the pounds, shillings and pence, I say!
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Another declaration of UKIP policy Roger? It'll be ration books and the compulsory wearing of hats next. ;-)
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In the late Norman era, the monks paid for the rebuilding of St Albans Abbey. Trouble was, they ran out of money, and the story is, they'd thought they had enough, but the Roman numerals and the standards of literacy and mathematics were not really good enough.
And that is why, to this day, the nave in St Albans Abbey has both early and late Norman arches. The early Norman architecturally is pretty much visually the same as Saxon architecture with single curvature arches, whereas late Norman arches have a peak.
A ten year old Sliding Pillar did a school project on Church Architecture.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Wed 31 Dec 14 at 13:49
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>>....whereas late Norman arches have a peak.>>
That was because, according to a BBC Four series I watched a few years ago, they provided greater support strength for the surrounding stonework.
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I knew a boy called Norman Archer. His dad was a mason. Last time I saw him he was stoned.
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All Norman arches are semicircular. The pointed arch was a later invention unknown to Norman masons and is known as a gothic arch and was introduced in the twelfth century. Early gothic is known as Perpendicular and gave way to the Decorated style in the fifteenth century The pointed arch is much stronger than the Roman or Norman arch Norman arches are often decorated with geometric zig zag type patterns and appear quite massive compared to later styles
Medieval buildings often took many years to complete and incorporate multiple styles
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>> Medieval buildings often took many years to complete and incorporate multiple styles
My father used to bore us about early and late perpendicular, with details of fan vaulting and so on. Later, when we started to take an interest in the buildings themselves, all of that fell into place and helped us to understand what was what.
There are utterly wonderful cathedrals all over Britain and France. I like the small eccentric ones myself. Ely and Wells stand out. Westminster Hall is a very fine space too.
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Yes if you know a bit about architecture you can read the history of a building and it makes sight seeing a lot more interesting. Lots of medieval buildings here in Norfolk and Norwich cathedral is up there with the best. Fantastic spire
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>>I like the small eccentric ones myself. Ely and Wells stand out. >>
I recall that the BBC Four programme series I mentioned described how the central tower of Ely Cathedral collapsed shortly after being built, but can't recall if any lives were lost.
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>>The pointed arch was a later invention unknown to Norman masons>>
It was the pointed arch to which I was referring. The series proved fascinating because, as someone who has been in cathedrals in many parts of Europe, I was keen to learn how such massive and heavy stones could be lifted to remarkable heights. Turned out that carpenters were the key...:-)
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All Norman arches are semicircular. The pointed arch was a later invention unknown to Norman masons and is known as a gothic arch and was introduced in the twelfth century
Er no! Here's another example:
www.astoft.co.uk/selbornechurch.htm
Architecturally, the next ecclesiastical style was early English and is a more graceful interpretation of the pointed arch. Wikipedia has it down as English gothic, but I'd have not used that label as it covers far too many years and will be mistaken for the excesses of the Victorian era. An example would be Lord Grimshaws pepperpots, the twiddly towers at the end of the nave at St Albans.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Wed 31 Dec 14 at 15:12
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>> Florins and farthings are rarely mentioned now for obvious reasons but I wonder what "fortnight"
>> did wrong? Rarely hear that now. I always found it quite a useful word.
>>
Too weak for some?
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>> >> Florins and farthings are rarely mentioned now for obvious reasons but I wonder what
>> "fortnight"
>> >> did wrong? Rarely hear that now. I always found it quite a useful word.
>> >>
Much like "sennight" (one week, or seven nights.)
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Thought that was a laxative.
;-)
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Somewhere, someone in the BBC is retraining those who are heard on radio or appear on TV.
Slowly everyone is now changing the way they say their "A"s
Common parlance has always been "Here is a ('ah' ) Dog
now its becoming
"Here is a('aY) Dog" heavy on the Y
Annoys me immensely
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I dislike "the family has been told".
Although I have noticed them starting to turn to "the family have been informed"
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As well as being irresistible (to me) the print and electronic media nearly always put me in a towering rage sooner or later, with crappy childish mistakes of every sort. Pronunciation, defective grammar, inadequate background general knowledge, false, fashionable and heartless simulated attitudes... it's a long, inglorious list.
The US has some real culture, but that isn't the sort aped and retailed by the world's media. We get a sort of second-rate world culture, the product of a money-driven cultural imperialism. Boring pap, often pernicious.
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People who say or write "would of", should of", "could of" and so on for "would've", "should've and "could've".
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People off the telly instead of on it.
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I thought they were in it. Are you telling me there aren't little people in there?
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>> I thought they were in it. Are you telling me there aren't little people in
>> there?
Don't be daft, given our well known obesity problem and flat screens, how could they be?
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 30 Dec 14 at 21:55
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>> People who say or write "would of", should of", "could of" and so on for
>> "would've", "should've and "could've".
>>
I say that 'would of' etc, always sounded right to me rather than 'would have'.
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Funny that sooty, the correct thing sounding less natural than the incorrect. FMR has another example above: he doesn't like the word 'family' being a singular. One tends to think of it as a plural because it has more than one member. Nevertheless, it is singular.
There must be many other examples.
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>>I say that 'would of' etc, always sounded right to me rather than 'would have'. >>
That seriously surprises me. But maybe you are younger than me and it does tend to be the young generation (perhaps due to greater use of text messages) who use such expressions.
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My pet hate, and I really should get over it, is people who describe themselves as having been sat when they had in fact been sitting. I feel like Canute on that one.
"I was sat in the car". Nooooooooo, you were sitting in the car !
;-)
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engage troll mode
Isn't sat the past perfect, and sitting the past tense? Sat implies a brief action, but sitting a lengthy one.
wanders off whistling
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Aren'twe talking about two entirely different verbs, to seat, and to sit?
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I sat in the car to wait for my wife to return from the shops. While I was sitting there I listened to the radio. When my wife arrived she was surprised to find me seated as I would normally have got up to help her load the shopping into the car.
"Why are you sitting there?" she exclaimed. "I sat down to listen to the radio darling, did you know our MP may lose his seat at the next election?"
;-)
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>> I was sat in the car to wait for my wife to return from the shops.
>> While I was sitting sat there I listened to the radio. When my wife arrived she
>> was surprised to find me seated sat there as I would normally have got up to help
>> her load the shopping into the car.
>>
>> "Why are you sitting sat there?" she exclaimed. "I was sat down to listen to the radio
>> darling, did you know our MP may lose his seat at the next election?"
Isn't that what you meant :)
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>> engage troll mode
>>
>> Isn't sat the past perfect, and sitting the past tense? Sat implies a brief action,
>> but sitting a lengthy one.
>>
>> wanders off whistling
Nice try SP, but no coconut!
"I sat" would be fine, or in the continuous form "I was sitting" - what Rd'H objects to is presumably "I was sat" instead of "I was sitting".
"I was sat" has no application as far as I can work out, other than possibly implying "somebody sat me there"
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I would much prefer to have been seated somewhere by another person than to have been sat by them. I would look upon them far more kindly.
;-)
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>>Nice try SP, but no coconut!>>
How would it be written if the car was a Seat?
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The sat/stood battle is lost. I've seen it at least three times in print in the last couple of weeks.
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>> The sat/stood battle is lost. I've seen it at least three times in print in
>> the last couple of weeks.
Bad news for you, American english is doing away with the word "fitted" "fit" is the universal replacement in much american print.
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>> My pet hate, and I really should get over it,
You've got quite a few on here
:-)
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"Would of" is surely just an error in representing the contraction "would've" in writing.
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There should be penalties.
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The English are no good at penalties.
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>> "Would of" is surely just an error in representing the contraction "would've" in writing.>>
That was exactly the point I made earlier, whether in written or spoken form....
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>> >> "Would of" is surely just an error in representing the contraction "would've" in writing.>>
>>
>>
>> That was exactly the point I made earlier, whether in written or spoken form....
>>
Nah it's the way of the future, you'll all be using it soon.
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>> That seriously surprises me.
But maybe you are younger than me and it does tend
>> to be the young generation (perhaps due to greater use of text messages) who use
>> such expressions.
>>
Never thought it rolled off the tongue right, of always sounded more natural and easier to say.
Possibly so, words and their use always probably the (one of the) next one.
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In fairness, we've drifted now into observations on dialect as opposed to mispronunciation. Dialects are great fun and have given rise to some wonderful descriptions which could not otherwise exist.
Some of my favourite Scots dialectal words are those used to describe things as being dirty, smelly, dusty or untidy such as "mockit", "clarty", "minging", "stoorie" and "manky".
I use all of those on a regular basis, normally in conjunction with commentary on my son's bedroom or the interior of my wife's car.
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>> Never thought it rolled off the tongue right correctly, <<
So - it rolled off the right side of your tongue, did it?
Duty pedant.
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I don't know if this solecism has been mentioned, but "off of" is my bête noir.
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On a topical note, it's "Auld lang syne" NOT "Old lang zyne" !
;-)
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>> On a topical note, it's "Auld lang syne" NOT "Old lang zyne" !
Oh God, I'd forgotten about that. Some fool is sure to get it going this evening. Having to stand in a ring holding hands the wrong way round, grinning falsely and trying not to listen to the discordant clamour.
Perhaps this would be the moment to top oneself if one could be sure no one would be upset.
:o{
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>> Some fool is sure to get it going this evening.
They did of course. But I managed to stand outside the circle, shouting SYNE! every time they sang 'zyne'. But they didn't listen or even seem to understand. I predict a particularly stupid and resistant year, but don't worry, I'm often wrong. .
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>> I don't know if this solecism has been mentioned, but "off of" is my bête
>> noir.
"for free". Where did that come from?
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My shrink one day used the expression 'For why?'
It was so uncharacteristic of her that I realised she was saying it to provoke and annoy me. So I didn't get annoyed or provoked. I must have been a very frustrating patient.
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"for free". Where did that come from?"
Go figure.
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Next up.
Fairly close to being a good reason to reintroduce the the death penalty.
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>> Go figure.
I heard that CGN. But 'tis the season to be forgiving. Happy New Yearstopky to you.
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And a Happy New Yearstopsky to you too.
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>>
>> >> Never thought it rolled off the tongue right correctly, <<
>>
>> So - it rolled off the right side of your tongue, did it?
No right as in correct.
>>
>> Duty pedant.
>>
duty overthinkingthings more like.
;-)
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A break between post holiday house cleaning, more like.
Signed:-
The Grump.
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One of the excitements of reading old books in editions as near as possible to their first is the grammar. I've posted before about Lewis Carroll using the words sha'n't, ca'n't and wo'n't but a new one to me the other day was Boswell writing the word her's.
There's little profit to be gained if we are too Epimethean about it all I suppose.
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BBD's spontaneous Polish-derived gibberish is most attractive I find.
Happy New Yearstopky to one and all.
Dobranoc.
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Now's the time of year for the Jocks to get going with their music.
Do they actually make up words to try and fit a rhyme in ? I was listening to Annie Laurie on the wireless the other day and there's a line ' I would lay me doon and dee '
It's English for Gawd's sake...or would,'t 'die' rhyme with anything ? Sing it in the Gaelic if you want authenticity !
Frichtened
Licht
Ma ain hoose
Do me a favour !
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>> Now's the time of year for the Jocks to get going with their music.
The Jocks? Pfft if it was only them it would be alright!
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I don't give a brass farthing, but it's amazing how many Scots think Scots is a language and not a dialect of English. Quite a few of the words they claim are theirs are the same in the dialect of the Lake District although precious few people speak it these days. Bairn for example is used in both Kendal and Glasgow.
Scots Gaelic though, yes that counts as a language in its own right. Although the written form is quite different to other Gaelic languages, it's surprising how well the other forms of Gaelic can communicate with each other.
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>> Scots Gaelic though, yes that counts as a language in its own right. Although the
>> written form is quite different to other Gaelic languages, it's surprising how well the other
>> forms of Gaelic can communicate with each other.
>>
On one of those strange empty days between Christmas and New Year, I was trying to find some rugby to watch on a FreeSat telly.
My companion and I discovered Alba(?) which was showing Leinster v Munster, with the commentary in Scots Gaelic! From time to time the commentator lapsed into English. The referee who was Welsh (Nigel Owens?) was talking in English, the players were using English. Quite a surreal experience.
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A last minute edition, draw-ring instead of drawing.
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I'm going to blame the mods for that, looked like addition when I typed it! ;-)
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>>My companion and I discovered Alba(?) >>
Celtic word for Scotland. BBC Alba's soaps are usually captioned in English as quite a few people from across the border watch them.
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>> Celtic word for Scotland. BBC Alba's soaps are usually captioned in English as quite a
>> few people from across the border watch them.
>>
As of course do a fair number of the 98.8% of the Scottish population who can't speak Gaelic.
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>> As of course do a fair number of the 98.8% of the Scottish population who
>> can't speak Gaelic.
Still a better use of digital spectrum than the half dozen porn channels round here.
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>> Still a better use of digital spectrum than the half dozen porn channels round here.
>>
A certain Dave would disagree with you.
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>> Still a better use of digital spectrum than the half dozen porn channels round here.
>>
>>
Is that real porn or just repeats of Top Gear? ;-)
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Never mind mispronunciation (NB - not mispronounciation") - what really annoys me is the grotesque performance some people exhibit when eating!
Arms akimbo, faces lowered to within a couple of inches of their plate, knives and forks grasped as though they were weapons of war, two hands grabbing a perfectly loaded sandwich, or even a plain buttered/jammed slice of bread, which latter items are never put down on a plate between mouthfuls, but waved about as though sending signals by semaphore.
All to be seen on TV (particularly the adverts.) and I dare say, replicated throughout the land, often by people who do not possess a dining table, but loll around balancing plates on knees while ingesting food of doubtful provenance.
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Is there anything about modern life you do like Roger?
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Roger, you may approve of the following:
The British film censors turned down the line "man cannot live by sausage rolls alone" in Carry On Sergeant because, they said, it wasn't done to parody the Bible as it would be offensive so to do.
I suspect life has moved on though.
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Nope: I'm atheistic, parodying religions is OK by me!
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I'm an Agnostic thank God.
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>> Manners maketh man.
makyth I seem to remember Roger. Same word of course.
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>> >> Manners maketh man.
>>
>> makyth I seem to remember Roger. Same word of course.
>>
>>
Yes - I did originally intend "makyth", but as I am not a Wykhamist, I thought it a trifle ostentatious!
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Has anyone mentioned alternatives?
There can only be one alternative, as in alternate.
Options may be a better choice of word.
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Not according to dictionary.reference.com/browse/alternative
NOUN
1. a choice limited to one of two or more possibilities, as of things, propositions, or courses of action, the selection of which precludes any other possibility:
You have the alternative of riding or walking.
2. one of the things, propositions, or courses of action that can be chosen:
The alternative to riding is walking.
3. a possible or remaining course or choice:
There was no alternative but to walk.
ADJECTIVE
4. affording a choice of two or more things, propositions, or courses of action.
5. (of two things, propositions, or courses) mutually exclusive so that if one is chosen the other must be rejected:
The alternative possibilities are neutrality and war.
6. employing or following nontraditional or unconventional ideas, methods, etc.; existing outside the establishment:
an alternative newspaper; alternative lifestyles.
7. Logic. (of a proposition) asserting two or more choices, at least one of which is true.
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>> Yes - I did originally intend "makyth", but as I am not a Wykhamist, I thought it a trifle ostentatious!
Bah, humbug. A quote is a quote Rastaman. Wykhamist Schmykamist...
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The quote has nothing to do with table manners and has an interesting ambiguity.
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>> >>My companion and I discovered Alba(?) >>
>>
>> Celtic word for Scotland.
>>
Nothing to do with albatross then, as in financial burden, Barnet formula, etc ?
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>> >> >>My companion and I discovered Alba(?) >>
>> >>
>> >> Celtic word for Scotland.
Alba also means dawn, in Italian and several other related languages. I am unlikely ever to forget this, having done some work a few years ago with a company located at Monticello d'Alba, in northern Italy.
Whenever the address appeared in documents that I used translation software on, it would translate to "little hillock of the dawn".
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So - Dawn is a 32A, then?
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Oft Mispronounced Words. - No FM2R
