Watched The Theory of Everything, a sort of biopic of Stephen Hawking, this evening. It's a very good movie but not a barrel of laughs. To become more or less helpless and incommunicado while your brain is still unaffected must be pretty unspeakable.
I don't doubt that Professor Hawking's insights into the terrifying and violent void that surrounds us are beneficial to humanity, although I can't say I really understand why. But Herself and I agreed that if something like that happened to us we'd rather be dead, and take steps to check out while we were still capable of it.
|
|
A colleague of mine has it. Poor quality of life, on a ventilator most of the time, team of 4 carers during the day and his wife does the overnight stint. He gets out and about in a specialist vehicle and has a lot of social support from friends from his former work. He has survived for a long time and is very positive about his situation.
|
My 2nd cousin (mother's cousin) died of it years back.
Dreadful, dreadful disease. We'd visit and the poor sod would be sat in a wheel chair trying to speak, but could not...yet his mind was fully active. How awful.
I agree with AC, I'd want 'out' before it got to that stage.
|
|
Missus is a palliative care nurse - she reckons the two worst "diseases" , for differing reasons, are MND and Alzheimers.
|
>> Missus is a palliative care nurse - she reckons the two worst "diseases" , for
>> differing reasons, are MND and Alzheimers.
There are other forms of dementing illness as well as Alzheimer's but the point is well made.
|
>> There are other forms of dementing illness as well as Alzheimer's but the point is well made.
Yes, dementias are hideous, another thing one would take the most drastic steps to avoid, and to avoid imposing on one's nearest and dearest.
A very old friend, who later became an in-law, a much-admired intellectual and good poet and writer, has something of the sort. Went to see him a couple of years ago with another friend of his, and mine, from London. He sort of recognised us but wasn't really interested. After ten minutes he got up and went across to play bingo or something with the other patients. Incredibly sad and depressing.
|
There are two special circumstances in SH's case which do very slightly offset the ghastliness.
He was fortunate to have been recognised as having an exceptional mind early enough for support to be provided to enable him to use it and communicate his ideas. A genius whose condition had progressed too far might have passed unnoticed.
So he has had a lot of very special equipment available, to his and the world's benefit, which would not have been forthcoming for a lesser or unrecognised intelect.
Secondly he appears to have a very unusual form of the disease, with an exceptionally long life-span. It may not technically even be MND, but whatever it is, it is clear that despite the odds and what might more normally have been the prognosis, he has led, and continues to lead, a fullfilling life. People who know him confirm that he is a humorous and engaging personality.
So it might be bad, but it's not all bad.
|
I sometimes read that a person has "Died" of dementia; is that actually possible, strictly speaking?
Dire and diminishing quality of life and loads of care and supervision care needed but is dementia a killer as such?
|
forgot to breathe maybe?
Having had two of my acquaintance go that way, its usually just old age. Doctors don't usually put that as cause of death but often one of the complicating factors noted.
|
My Dad died of MND 9 years ago, but the disease made him (and those around him) suffer for 10 years, when usually it takes people much sooner (Stephen Hawking being another exception).
Having seen the suffering, I think that if ever I were diagnosed I would do something about it whilst I could.
|
" when usually it takes people much sooner "
Our next-door neighbour went from 'us not being aware that there was anything wrong' to death in about 3 years.
|
>>I sometimes read that a person has "Died" of dementia; is that actually possible, strictly speaking
I guess it is - many people with end-stage dementia, having become bed ridden, increasingly spend their time asleep, taking less food and drink, and pass a tipping point where the body starts shutting down and weakens over a final few days or so.
They may perhaps pick up a chest infection or die as a result of dehydration, but ultimately the dementia caused these events and can be put on the certificate.
For the vast majority of people actual 'death' is the result of the cessation of brain function due to lack of circulation/oxygenation but that's being pedantic and is unhelpful on a certificate.
'Old age' is acceptable on a certificate where no other cause is obvious and the patient is... very old.
|
@ Lygonos
I always find your medical posts most interesting and very helpful.
Probably because I still have a thirst for knowledge...but credit where credit is due.
|
What is "very old"?
Do I qualify? :-)
|
>> For the vast majority of people actual 'death' is the result of the cessation of brain function due to lack of circulation/oxygenation but that's being pedantic and is unhelpful on a certificate.
Opiate 'overdose' can cause the body to 'forget' to breathe, causing death. If anyone notices what's happening and the facilities are available, an iron lung or some other form of enforced breathing for a few hours will prevent death, since opiates aren't really toxic.
I had an aunt - my mother's elder sister - whose grasp on reality was never all that firm, and who sank into dementia at the end of her life. She was a tough old thing though and survived for a good year or so in a state of steady decline. I used to go and see her during that period and was there, or having a coffee nearby, when she died. Her nurses - former colleagues of hers although she was a humble, non-SRN nurse - told me that because she was so small (4ft 10 or thereabouts) the morphine shots might have been too big for her. Something in their manner suggested to me that they had semi-deliberately eased her on her way. But I didn't mind. I agreed with them (if that's what they'd done).
Early dementia seems to pass from mother to son. My tragic intellectual friend is a case in point, his mother having shown symptoms in her fifties. Thank goodness mine died with all her marbles intact (although she was quite young, 53).
|
My mother-in-law who passed away last week was still sharp intellectually. And through regular injections kept her sight despite age related macular degeneration.
We think she passed peacefully and she was at home. We know it was her aneurism that went. I know there can be some pain but she will have lost consciousness quickly. And we know now there was nothing we could have done if we'd been there. She wouldn't have the surgery years ago and was too weak to have it now. And risk factors etc of course. And she had decided she would not want reviving either. She went too early (she'd have been 79 next week) but I think overall she had a good life.
This place is good to sound off - sorry I've gone on recently. It is like being down the pub with friends :-) Except I don't visit pubs often.
|
>>Opiate 'overdose' can cause the body to 'forget' to breathe, causing death. If anyone notices what's happening and the facilities are available, an iron lung or some other form of enforced breathing for a few hours will prevent death, since opiates aren't really toxic.
Nah - wee jag of naloxone and it's wakey-wakey time - overdo it however and the addict (presuming of course it's a recreational and not medical overdose) goes straight into withdrawal and escapes from hospital for another fix.
Usually in time for the naloxone to wear off in the carpark and the initial overdose kicks back in and they are found in the bushes.
|
|
I shouldn't find that scenario amusing - but sadly I do. Poor things that are addicted to such drugs.
|
>> I shouldn't find that scenario amusing - but sadly I do. Poor things that are addicted to such drugs.
That's heartless of you rtj. I'm surprised.
|
>> That's heartless of you rtj. I'm surprised.
Sorry. But someone who ends up in need of care (and probably dying from an OD) who then wakes up because they are given something to counteract the heroine to then leave the hospital to find the heroine effect kicks in. Amusing is the wrong word I suppose. But on leaving the ward the original OD is now in effect again and a life threatening threat.
|
>> Usually in time for the naloxone to wear off in the carpark and the initial overdose kicks back in and they are found in the bushes.
Things are obviously pretty rough up by you Lygonos. I'm thinking though of a respectable, eager young sprog given some 'brown powder' - no idea how they took it, probably orally though - who went to sleep and simply died in his sleep. He and the idiot who had bought the stuff (who survived, slightly foxed) simply didn't know what it was, or anything about it.
His devastated parents thought the stuff must have been contaminated, but I knew from the accounts that it must have been pure stuff, Mexican brown sugar or similar. If he hadn't been so innocent, if only he'd had junky friends as I did at his age to ration him firmly to a non-lethal taste (with the added advantage of more for them!), he'd still be with us.
If you're going to dice with death - something the young quite fancy - it's best not to be too respectable.
|
Scotland is typically the final staging post for heroin that arrives in Liverpool or the South of England - typically 20-25% pure after repeatedly being cut with adulterants.
Every so often if demand is low darn sarf, a less cut stash hits the streets and deaths follow.
Been a couple of cases of botulism in the last week I believe up here, from users missing their veins with contaminated H.
'Sprogs' (I know you are referring to teen/tweenagers above) of pre-school age tend to suffer as the result of finding their parents' methadone ration (a pleasing green colour) rather than wraps or 'tenner bags' of H. Methadone is no safer than heroin to those who are not used to taking opiates, and if used recreationally is even more dangerous as it can last more than 24 hours in the system compared to 4-5 hours for morphine/heroin/codeine.
|
>> Methadone is no safer than heroin to those who are not used to taking opiates,
It's obviously evil stuff, worse than H. I remember junkies complaining that it didn't give them anything like a buzz, although it stopped them from being sick with withdrawal. And I also remember someone ODing on it and damn nearly dying.
Is the NHS still handing it out? Why don't doctors realise that H (used intelligently) is less dangerous? Or are they just so anti-pleasure that they don't care?
|
>> Is the NHS still handing it out? Why don't doctors realise that H (used intelligently)
>> is less dangerous? Or are they just so anti-pleasure that they don't care?
Could a doctor still prescribe heroin?
I'm sure that collectively they know it to be safer than Methadone but we know what happens to anyone who challenges the 'all drugs are lethal' paradigm. See Professor Nutt who's good sense on 'E', another where banning the stuff and it's precursors has led to much more dangerous substitutes, was subject of a Grauniad piece yesterday:
www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jan/05/superman-ecstasy-pill-death-result-uk-illogical-punitive-drugs-policy
|
>> Could a doctor still prescribe heroin?
Only a super-expensive private one I would think. The vile superstitious Americans have infected the NHS I'm afraid. It is now, like US doctors, hostile to the real thing and favourably disposed to the nasty, more dangerous substitute.
I don't mean Lygonos or any sensible doctor. But so many (I'm afraid) are pusillanimous timeservers.
|
I think there were some doctors with special Home Office licences alllowing them to prescribe diamorphine to addicts.
To my knowledge there are none in Scotland and I'm not even sure if these licences still exist.
|
>> His devastated parents thought the stuff must have been contaminated, but I knew from the
>> accounts that it must have been pure stuff, Mexican brown sugar or similar. If he
>> hadn't been so innocent, if only he'd had junky friends as I did at his
>> age to ration him firmly to a non-lethal taste (with the added advantage of more
>> for them!), he'd still be with us.
>>
>> If you're going to dice with death - something the young quite fancy - it's
>> best not to be too respectable.
>>
To this innocent oldster, this all looks like skating on very thin ice.
At the risk of sounding anti-pleasure, or even worse still pompous. Wouldn't it be better to avoid completely ALL of these substances?
|
>>If you're going to dice with death - something the young quite fancy
The young don't take drugs to dice with death - they take drugs for an effect, such as feeling high, a release from misery, altered perceptions, etc. They often have a poor comprehension of risk and consequence, and those susceptible to the drugs are guilty of trying to get more of a buzz by taking increasing amounts increasingly frequently.
Probably one of the most dangerous substances used by youngsters (and occasionally older people) is solvents - kills more under-16s than all other illegal drugs combined.
What they don't necessarily appreciate is the risk they are taking - 17yr old lads don't drive like morons to 'dice with death' - they expect not to crash and are then shocked when almost inevitably they do.
|
"The young don't take drugs to dice with death - they take drugs for an effect, such as feeling high, a release from misery, altered perceptions, etc. They often have a poor comprehension of risk and consequence"
I would add to that peer pressure. Young people start to take drugs because their mates do. They drink themselves silly because that's what their mates do. They drive recklessly to impress their mates.
|
>> The young don't take drugs to dice with death - they take drugs for an effect, such as feeling high, a release from misery, altered perceptions, etc. They often have a poor comprehension of risk and consequence, and those susceptible to the drugs are guilty of trying to get more of a buzz by taking increasing amounts increasingly frequently.
You're right of course Lygonos, 'dicing with death' is somewhat OTT. However anyone taking powerful opiates is likely to have some sort of idea that there are potential risks, although as we all know some are so incredibly ignorant and naive that they can't be called aware.
Your point about solvents is well made. In Latin America leaded petrol, energetically inhaled from a soaked cloth, is chosen by some (its users must feel spectacularly awful to start with, seems to me). The other good point is about the greed of drug users - all drugs including alcohol and tobacco - leading to dangerous excess. I know what I'm talking about here, and agree totally.
|
Motor neurone disease - wokingham
