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Seems quite sensible to me as indeed the vaccum cleaner thing
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>> Remind you of the vacuum cleaners' electric motors size nonsense a while back?
>>
>> www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6771-eu-mandates-standby-modes-for-networked-devices.html
Yes, it was in the press. Its an excellent idea, exactly as the vacuum idea is.
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I saw it, but forbore to comment, but as Zero used my innocent lbs and ozs. on the bread thread to mock, I'll say it is a damn silly, authoritarian, idea.
Freedom of choice (remember that?) means that I can choose whether to spend my money on "unnecessary" power or not.
Last edited by: Roger. on Tue 6 Jan 15 at 17:08
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>> I saw it, but forbore to comment, but as Zero used my innocent lbs and
>> ozs. on the bread thread to mock, I'll say it is a damn silly, authoritarian,
>> idea.
>> Freedom of choice (remember that?) means that I can choose whether to spend my money
>> on "unnecessary" power or not.
Alas Roger it don't because you are rucking up MY environment you selfish git.
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"Freedom of choice (remember that?) means that I can choose whether to spend my money
>> on "unnecessary" power or not.
Alas Roger it don't because you are rucking up MY environment you selfish git."
Yes but, the next stage is that the EU will limit all computer/electrical equipment/central heating to 2 hours use in each 24 hours. Smart meters will control it all.
In addition, all cars after 2020 will be limited to a maximum engine size of 1500 cc and/or 80 bhp.
It's because they all "ruck up the environment"
;-)
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>
>> Alas Roger it don't because you are rucking up MY environment you selfish git.
>>
So when are you going to stop driving all over the country train spotting and using up MY fuel supplies for your oddball pleasure ?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 6 Jan 15 at 19:39
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>> >
>> >> Alas Roger it don't because you are rucking up MY environment you selfish git.
>> >>
>>
>> So when are you going to stop driving all over the country train spotting and
>> using up MY fuel supplies for your oddball pleasure ?
Just getting you back for spreading radiation all over the globe.
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I wonder if it will affect the modem speed, I remember on here asking about turning them on and off when not in use and told it could affect the speed, would there be a workaround on that?
I'm not sure how much electricty it would save, the generally consesus on here was to leave it on as it used very little electricity at all, surely standby mode would save even less?
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I rather imagine the modems will be shipped with a sheet that tells you how to disable the compulsory on/off switch in order to get the maximum speed.
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>> I'm not sure how much electricty it would save, the generally consesus on here was
>> to leave it on as it used very little electricity at all, surely standby mode
>> would save even less?
You can keep the Wan link alive with little power being used. Turn off power to the Wifi, and the router ports
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I don't believe this will make a worthwhile saving for the hassle in having to wake the thing up when you want to use it. I like to be able to use WiFi as soon as I step into the house rather than having to turn something on first.
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I have been working to implement this directive for a couple of years now as it is part of a group of energy saving standards. The basic idea is that products when not performing their main functions go to lower power modes whilst still maintaining network connection if applicable. The savings in energy consumption are many TW over all product groups. Is should not affect wake ups as manufacturers are using better chip sets but it may affect older products.
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Brilliant, reduce power consumption, save fuel, (cost) and the power companies hike their prices to protect their profits. Sounds like a non job to maintain the status quo.
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>> Brilliant, reduce power consumption, save fuel, (cost) and the power companies hike their prices to
>> protect their profits. Sounds like a non job to maintain the status quo.
Not that far off the truth, given the regulated environment.
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>> Brilliant, reduce power consumption, save fuel, (cost) and the power companies hike their prices to
>> protect their profits. Sounds like a non job to maintain the status quo.
So power prices were lower when we used a lot then?
Opps no they weren't were they.
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It’s planning for rationing.
We are using more and more power in our homes and supply does not increase incrementally but by expensive step changes (new power stations).
Slow down the increase in usage and you delay (or buy time) to build new power stations.
It is a sensible measure to limit the use of the world’s resources and will keep energy prices lower as demand is limited.
The "It's my money and I will spend it how I want" view of the world may have to change in the future with key commodities like food, water and power being rationed as the populations increase or face war to protect the over use which appears morally bankrupt.
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According to our meter readings we use about the same electric as we did a few years ago. But the last two years gas usage has gone down.
We'd use less electric if I went into the office to work. But I'd drive at least an extra 650 miles a month which I'd pay for. Call it £100pm for petrol.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 6 Jan 15 at 22:24
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>> The "It's my money and I will spend it how I want" view of the
>> world may have to change in the future with key commodities like food, water and
>> power being rationed as the populations increase or face war to protect the over use
>> which appears morally bankrupt.
>>
Most wars are about securing resources, be they shooting or economic.
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"key commodities like food, water and power being rationed as the populations increase or face war to protect the over use which appears morally bankrupt."
zippy - your name is either Thomas Malthus or Paul Ehrlich - which is it?
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"The savings in energy consumption are many TW over all product groups. Is should not affect wake ups as manufacturers are using better chip sets but it may affect older products."
Bit vague to say the least - what is "many TW"?
Anyway, I read recently that energy usage in UK is 24 x "average home usage" x number of homes in UK.
So how much energy is this really going to save? Especially as most people don't swap their computers/routers/TVs/fridges/cookers/etc.etc all that often. Hope our Henry Hoover thing keeps going for another 10 years or so.
And since it is all being done in the name of "saving the planet" how about giving us a figure in terms of the world's energy usage and how these EU measures will "save the planet"?
Nice job though - wonder if all your office lights/computers/central heating/air conditioning/computers/routers/lifts/ are turned off at night. Do the cleaners use the latest lower powered Hoovers? Is the car-park still floodlit at night or are there sensors which switch them off at night (except when cats/foxes set them off) Are there nice electric gates on your car park or do you get out of your car to open/close gates? Do you fly all over Europe/world to discuss these directives or do you video conference? Of course not - you probably cycle to work/conferences.
I hope you are setting a good example to us all.
Off to bed now - Mrs W will do her usual before following me - switching off and unplugging every electrical device in the house - after all, don't want to contribute too much towards those stupid wind turbine things which make our rich land owners so much money.
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Some folk will believe anything if it is labelled "man-made global warming"
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* alas the swear filter got int he way *
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 6 Jan 15 at 23:23
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Some folk will believe anything if it is labelled "man-made global warming"
Whereas some people will simply believe anything. They mostly vote UKIP
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"Whereas some people will simply believe anything."
Black Shuck?
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>> Off to bed now - Mrs W will do her usual before following me -
>> switching off and unplugging every electrical device in the house - after all, don't want
>> to contribute too much towards those stupid wind turbine things which make our rich land
>> owners so much money.
you really are jihadist dinosaur. Any slight mention of "climate change" or "energy saving" is guaranteed to open a floodgate of head in sand verbal spewage.
I do however agree with you that the perceived future over reliance on wind turbines is an issue.
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Anyone remember Peak Oil?
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"jihadist dinosaur"
Didn't they become extinct because of climate change?? ;-)
Maybe the same fate awaits me!
"head in sand"
more like head in a bottle of wine.
"verbal spewage"
Yeah, maybe, but then I just wonder whether these directives can really do much to prevent "catastrophic climate change".
What is the "ideal" world climate?
Temps have gone up by 0.8 degrees since 1880 - is that a bad thing? Would a rise by, say, 2 degrees in the next 100 years be a bad thing? Will temps actually rise by by that?
Does anyone know?
Enough "verbal spewage"!!
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>> Yeah, maybe, but then I just wonder whether these directives can really do much to
>> prevent "catastrophic climate change".
Only a very limited amount, but every little helps.
>> What is the "ideal" world climate?
>> Temps have gone up by 0.8 degrees since 1880
Measured where and how?
>> Would a rise by, say, 2 degrees in the next 100 years be a bad
>> thing?
Based on worldwide averages seriously bad if you live very close to sea level, like just above areas affected by current flood/tide combos.
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Thanks Brompt.
You have replied by making points and asking questions rather than just by calling me names (I still don't know what a "jihadist dinosaur" is!)
"Only a very limited amount, but every little helps."
Fair enough - I accept your point
"Measured where and how?"
In reply I would say that from the IPCC 14 degrees was used as the "average world temp in 1880" as their base figure against which to measure "Global warming" in the 20th century (See www2.ucar.edu/climate/faq/how-much-has-global-temperature-risen-last-100-years ) and has risen by 0.85 degrees since.
One problem is that the original "14 degrees" was + or - 2 degrees. Mainly because polar temps were impossible to measure because no-one had been there and vast areas had no/inaccurate measurements (much of Africa/ S America/Asia etc) so the current "global temp" lies well within the error bars of the original measurement. Measurements done using thermometers which are difficult to read with more accuracy than 0.5 degrees.
With regard to "seriously bad if you live very close to sea level,", as far as I have read, sea level rises have been about 3mm per year since the end of the "Little Ice Age" and this hasn't changed much over the years. Latest satellite data even suggests it might have slowed slightly. This is not to belittle the problems of those living close to coasts being eroded in areas like Holderness and Norfolk but it's not a new problem (see www.wilgilsland.co.uk/page2.html )
and, of course, some of the ancient settlers of these isles migrated across what is now the North Sea!
Hope that's not too much "verbal spewage"
P
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>> Thanks Brompt.
>> You have replied by making points and asking questions rather than just by calling me
>> names (I still don't know what a "jihadist dinosaur" is!)
Its a new made up monica - rather proud of it actually. The dinosaur bit is obvious, and the jihadist bit is someone who is militant and noisy about it.
>> Hope that's not too much "verbal spewage"
>> P
Its just that the merest sniff of anyone mentioning climate change elicits a long and wieldy reply with lots of denial links, from someone who is normally laid back about most things.
My climate change beliefs? I see, hear and read lots of things that our climate is changing, rather more rapidly than the normal long slow cooling and warming cycles in eons past. Everything I have seen and experienced myself in the UK in the last few years is sufficient for me to accept that premise.
The idea is put forward that this change is caused by the use of fossil fuels and general human factors affecting the earths climate. Now no-one has proven or disproven that to me, but its not an unreasonable conclusion to accept.
The upside is of all this is of course that society will try and find, with rather more rapidity than they would have done otherwise, other sources of power and ways of using less of it - in the process making the whole life thing as we know it much more sustainable.
Now how is that a bad thing, and why and how does it warrant such a vitriolic denial reaction?
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 7 Jan 15 at 22:31
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>> The idea is put forward that this change is caused by the use of fossil
>> fuels and general human factors affecting the earths climate. Now no-one has proven or disproven
>> that to me, but its not an unreasonable conclusion to accept.
>
>> Now how is that a bad thing, and why and how does it warrant such
>> a vitriolic denial reaction?
Find myself agreeing with Zeddo. Should I panic?
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Thanks for answers Z and Brompt - didn't realise that I had posted something seen as " a vitriolic denial reaction" Thought the last links provided were balanced and factual.
And , Brompt, I also find "The idea is put forward that this change is caused by the use of fossil fuels and general human factors affecting the earths climate. Now no-one has proven or disproven that to me, but its not an unreasonable conclusion to accept." is something I could agree with!!!
"agreeing with Zeddo"
"Should I panic? "
I am in a state of panic!
Also quite like my new monica,
Think I might change my log in to Jihadist Dinosaur!!
Regards
JD
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He is right sometimes and this is one of them.
Wrong about homemade bread though :-)
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Manufacturers are having to design these features into products as the days of endless energy are over. equipment will automatically now go to lower power modes due to built in functions. The days of encouraging users to switch off when not in use are over as the campaigns don't work for the long term.
My position is working for a manufacturer implementing the requirements as the law is very clear, that we can't market products unless these measures are built in.
If they contribute to global climate change is debatable. What we do definitely know is they will save energy.
Slowly all products which either use or influence the consumption of energy will be affected. There are many classes of products which legislation is planned.
One other aspect which has been not been mentioned is that products will have to have less harmful chemicals in them and better use consumables. One aspect is that all printers must by law offer duplex and n up printing under certain conditions and speed ranges.
Overall I think it's a good move. I know some won't agree but that life. We don't all agree on everything do we?
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>>There are many classes of products which legislation is planned.>>
Busy bodies and know-alls keeping themselves in employment more like it.
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Don't get me wrong Steve - I'm all for saving energy use, but mainly to save on my bills! Hence the switching off of all lights when not in use, dropping CH temp by a degree or two, getting best insulation for my house etc, etc, And my printer has duplex! And I recycle as much as possible to conserve resources.
However, on what basis do you say "the days of endless energy are over"? I know that most sources of energy are not infinite but where are the signs that coal is "running out". How about oil and gas? If they are running out how come prices are falling? New techniques enable us to discover and recover more and more sources don't they?
I understand your position on the basis of "implementing the requirements as the law is very clear, that we can't market products unless these measures are built in." In other words, it's nowt to do with "energy sources running out" but to fulfil the requirements of the law?? Is the law an ass????
With regard to "that products will have to have less harmful chemicals in them", have you read this on cleaning up a broken CFL? www2.epa.gov/cfl/cleaning-broken-cfl
One problem is that the consumption of energy is in direct proportion to standard of living - the more energy consumed, the higher the standard of living (ask Al Gore!!!) so no matter how much we in "the developed world" reduce our energy consumption by, our poorer friends in the "less developed world" will more than make up for it. And so they should - instead of burning cow dung to heat a stove to cook dinner in the light of a candle how about a new electric cooker and then settle down in front of the TV in a well lit centrally heated house and get rid of the donkey in favour of a Hilux or Massey Ferguson??
Will your duplex printer make up for that?
"Overall I think it's a good move."
Yep, I agree, but not for same reasons???
Regards
P
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Phil
I think we agree on most things. maybe endless was not a good word choice. as far as cfl lamps are concerned they are just an interim measure as Mercury is planned to be phased out and it's used at present as a legal exemption. Led will be the way forward for lighting in s few years.
We had incandescent lamps where only 2% approx of its energy used was converted into light output so in terms of the bulbs main function they were inefficient. Thus they go under the legislation.
CFLs have a higher % efficiency but still rely on Mercury to produce the light output. Yes with Mercury included they are hazardous when broken. What is strange is when I was younger we never had such warnings about fluorescent tubes which contained many times the Mercury.
LEDs with almost 100% efficiency will be commonplace in 5 years time.
The only lamps that will be available then will be ones with specific functions such as heat lamps,sun tan beds,photography etc as examples where maybe light output is a secondary function.
Lead has already been phased out along with hex chromium and cadmium as some of the environmental and health benefits.
So when your tv and video remind you after 4 hours without any interaction do you want to remain watching,then that feature is already built into all products currently for sale.
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My Sony Bravia flashes a message up every so often...at least twice in an evening....to say it's going to switch itself off unless we hit any button on the remote.
I thought this was something we just had to put up with, but is it the fact that this is one of built in features you refer to, Steve ?
Apart from switching the set on and off, the only interaction we usually have with it during an evening's viewing is by way of the Virgin+ box. We view on cable all the time.
SWM get annoyed with it and nags me to sort it out....but I'm usually asleep !
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Yawn.
Nuclear and LEDs, awright?
Yawn.
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Yes TVs were one of the first groups to implement this type of power management. The time before the message can be fixed or there may be a choice of different times in the setup menu. The tv industry chose 4 hours as the default setting from my memory. There may also be an option to disable this function as the legislation applies in an 'as shipped' condition.
Almost any electrical items for sale now have some sort of this power management built in.
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If you are making coffee from a kettle, then the received wisdom seems to be that you only need the water to be 85 degrees. For me, I just boil it and then either ignore that idea, or wait around a bit until I think it might be a bit cooler.
How about a button on the kettle marked "coffee" that shuts it off at 85 degrees if you choose?
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>> How about a button on the kettle marked "coffee" that shuts it off at 85
>> degrees if you choose?
www.housetohome.co.uk/product-idea/picture/10-of-the-best-electric-kettles/3
One of many models of variable temperature kettles.
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>> www.housetohome.co.uk/product-idea/picture/10-of-the-best-electric-kettles/3
>>
>> One of many models of variable temperature kettles.
There's an embedded video, with sound, on that page that starts about 10 seconds after link loads. Slightly spooky if you're not expecting it.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 8 Jan 15 at 09:05
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>> SWM get annoyed with it and nags me to sort it out....but I'm usually asleep!
>>
This function can be (and is) switched off in the Eco menu on my Sony TV.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 8 Jan 15 at 08:10
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>> My Sony Bravia flashes a message up every so often...at least twice in an evening....to
>> say it's going to switch itself off unless we hit any button on the remote.
Our Sky+ HD box does this once during the late evening as well if it's been on the same channel for any length of time.
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>> Our Sky+ HD box does this once during the late evening as well if it's been on the same channel for any length of time.
Which can be disabled in the setting menu.
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Which can be disabled in the setting menu.
And so can the one on my Sony Bravia... Which I have as well, along with killing the overscanning and turning down the colour level (ie making it realistic, not dramatic).
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Steve,
Interesting and educational post - thanks!
We've already started replacing bulbs with LEDs in kitchen/bathroom/ensuite thingy. Cost a lot more initially but efficiency should make up for that! And if they last as long as the label says they will more than see me out (after my energy efficient cremation and spreading ashes on the strawberry bed - potash good for strawberries - told you I was keen on recycling??? ;-) )
Not come across the 4 hour thing on TVs and Videos, but then we tend not to have TV on for that long without interacting.
Good to hear that lead, cadmium etc have been phased out - nasty stuff.
Regards
PhilW .
Oops, I mean
Jihadist Dinosaur
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>> We've already started replacing bulbs with LEDs in kitchen/bathroom/ensuite thingy. Cost a lot more initially
I too have nearly replaced every bulb with LED types. Not for any energy saving fatwah, but because I am fed up with changing the damn things every week!
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Our kitchen has loads of GU10 downlighters, they originally each had 50w bulbs in them and must have been using a lot of electricity. Plus, they were forever blowing. I replaced all of them with LED bulbs about a year ago and so far they've all kept going.
Only trouble is they're so dim by comparison I can't always see what I'm doing in there. Fortunately it's not a room I interfere with much. Unless there's a bike to strip down and lube of a winter's night of course.
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Replaced our 3*GU10 kitchen fitting with one taking four 50w equivalent GU10 LEDs. A great improvement.
GU10 and those G9 halogen capsules must be the shortest lived bulbs in history. See my Mum about once every fortnight and there are always two or three to replace. Brother in law and her cleaner change them too, not as if they save them up for me.
The G9s seem to last a few weeks at most and are so easy to break in the fitting or bend the connectors.
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>>. Unless there's a bike to strip down and lube of a winter's night of course.
>>
Does your missus know about you take a bike into a dark room, stripping, and lubing???? ;-p
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"because I am fed up with changing the damn things every week!"
exactly - guaranteed for 2 years but blow after 2 months. And can you find the receipt to get replacements? No me neither.
I'm a bit sceptical (!! no, not in denial!!) about how long the LEDs will last - but so far so good!
JD
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At present its the users choice if the power save feature is enabled. That's ok for now but it's most likely in the future this will not be allowed.
So the products are shipped with the feature enabled, then it's up to the user to read the manual etc and disable it. It is hoped that this will deter? People from changing it.
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>>That's ok for now but it's most likely in the future this will not be allowed.
>>
>>
Will not be allowed !
Are the people who make these decisions elected, or officials appointed by officials ?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 8 Jan 15 at 18:24
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I too have the LED bug.
17 X 50W GU 10s in the kitchen replaced by COB 6W s. And then 11 X undercupboard 20 W jobbies replaced by 2.4 W. Went for cool white which I'm not sure about but they are fitted now.
Warm white everywhere else and I was able to up the wattage of the GU10s in the bathroom particularly one with grey tiles which absorbed the light making it a bit dark.
Spent a fortune! But makes me feel better and no constant bulb changing and consumer unit tripping out.
Anyone want a slack hand full of new and slightly used GU10s ? :S
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Did anyone else spot this EU directive? - CGNorwich
