Non-motoring > A despot dies.	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Roger.	Replies: 22

New Sat 24 Jan 15 10:16   A despot dies. - Roger.

So the Saudi King has popped his clogs and the Western World grovels and worships his memory. "Nothing will change in Saudi Arabia" is the message from that country. So the public executions, stoning of women and the funding of Jihadists will carry on as normal then? That's OK as long as the oil continues to flow. Bah humbug. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 10:22   A despot dies. - CGNorwich

You take a different stance to your leader then: Asked if Mr Farage was comfortable with the decision, his spokesman said: "Lowering a flag is an issue of diplomatic protocol, respect for an ally in the war on terror. "We should forcefully take up the issue of human rights with the new not the dead king." Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 10:31   A despot dies. - Bromptonaut

I think Farage has got it right for once, at least in so far as diplomatic protocol is concerned. Reports yesterday suggested Saudi Arabia is in fact changing, albeit at a fairly slow pace. Although appearing to be an absolute Monarch the head of the House of Saud is, in practice, constrained by other members of the household and the dominance of Wahhabi Islam. Whatever the west can achieve will be done by diplomacy. The precedents where middle eastern dictators have fallen or been pushed are not encouraging are they? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 10:42   A despot dies. - NortonES2

If the sentence is ended at protocol, fair enough. But Saudi exports Wahhabism and encourages salafists. Main source of funding. Not a very good ally. However, they like our military training and spend a lot on the Al-Yamamah arms deal. I suppose we, nationally, have to be as Janus faced as Saudi princes, whilst they live.... Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 10:35   A despot dies. - Roger.

I am allowed to differ from my party leader - I do in this instance! The West's reliance on oil from the Middle East suborns all normal reactions - I happen to think that the sooner the UK can become less dependant on foreign controlled, or supplied, energy, the better. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Sat 24 Jan 15 10:43   A despot dies. - Bromptonaut

>> The West's reliance on oil from the Middle East suborns all normal reactions - I >> happen to think that the sooner the UK can become less dependant on foreign controlled, >> or supplied, energy, the better. >> > I don't disagree with that in principle but OTOH nobody wants racking in their back yard. And, irrespective of energy politics the outcome of revolution in Saudi would not be the triumphant installation of liberal multi-party demoracy. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 10:46   A despot dies. - Zero

>> So the public executions, stoning of women and the funding of Jihadists will carry on >> as normal then? Its got sod all to do with you what happens in another continent. If they don't like it they can, and will rise up - another Syria no doubt. However someone in the west will be on here to decry the human rights abuses out there, tell us we should go out there and beat the bully, but at the same time advocate hanging people and chopping off hands. >> That's OK as long as the oil continues to flow. >> >> Bah humbug. No not bah humbug, expediency. Its called looking after us and minding our business. Last edited by: Zero on Sat 24 Jan 15 at 10:47 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 10:56   A despot dies. - Bromptonaut

Martin Rowson's take: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/jan/23/death-king-abdullah-cartoon Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 11:39   A despot dies. - Dave

I don't remember the same courtesy being extended to Gadafi when he died, and he was a friend of ours (or at least Tony). And what about Mugabe, when he meets his maker? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 11:46   A despot dies. - Zero

>> I don't remember the same courtesy being extended to Gadafi when he died, and he >> was a friend of ours (or at least Tony). Difficult to pay respects to a leader who blew up a jumbo jet over your country, >>And what about Mugabe, when he >> meets his maker? Firstly he wont, he has a paid witch doctor on his staff who assures him he will live forever (and lets face it is dong a damn fine job) and secondly if he does, he has no oil and no strategic importance so he can be roundly abused, insulted and reviled as much as we like. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 12:00   A despot dies. - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> Its got sod all to do with you what happens in another continent. If they >> don't like it they can, and will rise up - another Syria no doubt. However >> someone in the west will be on here to decry the human rights abuses out >> there, tell us we should go out there and beat the bully, but at the >> same time advocate hanging people and chopping off hands. >> >> >> I'll second that. Most of the world don't give a stuff about democracy, they are content to live under totalitarian regimes. When they do replace one despot it's only with another of the same ilk. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 14:36   A despot dies. - madf

>> >> I'll second that. Most of the world don't give a stuff about democracy, they are >> content to live under totalitarian regimes. When they do replace one despot it's only with >> another of the same ilk. >> Err how come? If they are living under a totalitarian regime,by definition freedom of speech is restricted and they may - and probably will - be punished for stating it's carp. So they say nothing... Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 15:08   A despot dies. - Bromptonaut

>> Err how come? If they are living under a totalitarian regime,by definition freedom of speech >> is restricted and they may - and probably will - be punished for stating it's >> carp. So they say nothing... From where we stand in a liberal democracy such restrictions seem unthinkable. OTOH I'd rather have been in Saddam Hussein's Iraq, keeping my head down but with some security, a home, job, sanitation etc than in the mess that is the post war Levant. And as AC points out in the Churchill thread democracy has a poor record in societies that lack a unifying national identity. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 16:05   A despot dies. - Roger.

>> And as AC points out in the Churchill thread democracy has a poor record in >> societies that lack a unifying national identity. Like the European Union you mean? :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 24 Jan 15 15:35   A despot dies. - Robin O'Reliant

>> >>>> >> Err how come? If they are living under a totalitarian regime,by definition freedom of speech is restricted and they may - and probably will - be punished for stating it's >> carp. So they say nothing... >> People in certain countries only want free speech when it's the kind of free speech their own particular despot allows. They're happy to see those they disagree with persecuted just like they were when the other lot held the reigns. If they really didn't like it they've had a good few centuries to sort it out. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 25 Jan 15 10:32   A despot dies. - Bromptonaut

And it's not just defence contracts either. We're bidding to help them run their prisons FFS: www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/25/ministry-justice-contract-saudi-arabia-prison Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 25 Jan 15 11:09   A despot dies. - sooty123

Mere small fry at £5.9m in comparison to the defence contracts we have out there. The money taps are still at full flow for that. I know quite a few people that have gone out there to work and made plenty of money, it wasn't/isn't hard to triple your take home pay. Maybe this contract will help curtail their need for beheadings etc, probably not but you never know. They will start to turn the corner at some point. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 25 Jan 15 12:10   A despot dies. - Falkirk Bairn

>> I know quite a few people that have gone out there to work and made plenty of money I went out to SA on the back of the sale of BAe planes to the RSAF in 1970 - spent 2.5 years and saved £8,500 - does not sound a lot today but it paid 50% of a house, furnished it, a new MGB GT (£1300) and still had £1500 left......from earning £5,500 per year in SA I returned to £1500 per year in the UK! Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 25 Jan 15 12:39   A despot dies. - sooty123

I think the last couple of lads that went out there went from, £20 odd grand to £55k the other £40k --> £120 odd grand. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 25 Jan 15 13:55   A despot dies. - sooty123

>> >> I know quite a few people that have gone out there to work and >> made plenty of money >> >> I went out to SA on the back of the sale of BAe planes to >> the RSAF in 1970 I take it was the Lightning contract? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 25 Jan 15 16:19   A despot dies. - Falkirk Bairn

>> take it was the Lightning contract? Yes, Al Yamana contract started in 1966 and in some formats it is still running nearly 50 years later I left, after 2 yrs 4 mths, in 1972 - little did I know the contracts would still be running 40+ years later. The contractors have changed but in theory the job still exists and I could have spent all my life in a single workplace. ex-RAF pilots provided the early cover as the training wasunderway. Some were reckoned not to be ex-RAF but on secondment but that was never confirmed to us. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 25 Jan 15 18:29   A despot dies. - sooty123

>> Yes, Al Yamana contract started in 1966 and in some formats it is still running >> nearly 50 years later >> Yep that was the contract the blokes I mentioned above went out on. They'll be many years left on it too, another 20 years at least I would have thought. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 25 Jan 15 19:45   A despot dies. - henry k

>> >> I know quite a few people that have gone out there to work and made plenty of money >> I too went to SA in the 70s onward. The longest stint was 3 months in the summer including Ramadan but had wife and baby with me. All the many other trips were two weeks or less. It certainly helped the bank balance. I was there when a previous king died. ALL scheduled flights cancelled and nearly all shops shut for a few days. Watched the funeral on TV with interest. After the worry re what next ? all returned to "normal". I told our staff" Believe all the stories cos 99% will be true" In those days if you drove a truck full of almost anything to SA, you could make a big profit, sell the truck and fly home in comfort. Reply to this message | Report message