www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31125052
Not what you would expect to see on your dashcam!! Something gone majorly wrong somewhere!
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Also see:
tinyurl.com/kuxxx8s
Both the taxi driver and whoever had the dashcam in their vehicle were both very lucky although, sadly, many on the plane have lost their lives.
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For a long period aircraft crash was extremely rare event.
Now suddenly we are seeing a number of aircrafts going down (whatever be the reason).
What is happening?
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Clearly God is punishing the world for its wickedness and for allowing gay people to marry.
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Many more flights ?
aviation-safety.net/statistics/
Actually shows last year there were fewer crashes...(does not include the Air Malaysia Shoot down)
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Still the safest form of travel.
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That's trains, isn't it?
To give a more reasoned answer to Movi's question, rare events are, well, rare, but they do happen. Every so often they happen in clusters. You wouldn't roll a die and expect to throw five sixes in a row, but every so often someone does, and occasionally several people do in quick succession.
As another illustration, when you buy mosaic tiles for your bathroom wall, the 'random' pattern you see is actually pseudo-random. Why? Because a truly random distribution has too many clumps and clusters in it to fit with our idea of what looks properly random!
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Mmm....another hour in te bath studying tiles.
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No hanging about out there!
A very large mobile crane appeared on site and has now moved the hull to the river bank.
Continuous coverage....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8GmxMGCDh4
Sorry no translation
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Looks like one of my landings.
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A comment on the thumbnail picture earlier: "White X means Lane Closed"
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You must have been flying the 319 I was on last night then!
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Just heard on Sky News that both engines failed soon after take off.
My speculation is lack of fuel for whatever reason.
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The very latest suggestion on the web.They shut the wrong engine down.
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>> The very latest suggestion on the web.They shut the wrong engine down.
Not the first time that one would have happened.
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If that is true, Kegworth again.
The crash at Kegworth was caused by shutting the good engine and expecting the broken one to work. A bit more to it, but that's the basics.
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>> The very latest suggestion on the web.They shut the wrong engine down.
See www.pprune.org/rumours-news/555876-transasia-water-13.html
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My theory is to always leave the cockpit, walk down the cabin, look out of the window, see which engine is on fire and then shut it down. Everyone on the plane knew at Kegworth (except the pilots).
I do enjoy Air Crash Investigation, nay, addicted. So is my little boy. New episode on Monday.
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I read a report or a tale somewhere, of a a crew in a defective engine scenario scared of shutting down the working engine, so they placed some kind of visible marker or tag on the good throttle lever with the word NO on it.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 6 Feb 15 at 10:29
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It's about the one situation left that slightly supports the superstitions of the four-engines-good lobby: if you're going to shut down a good engine by mistake, you'll still have two more good ones running. But, so soon after takeoff, would two out of four be enough to keep the plane flying?
Ergonomics here might be worth looking at – perhaps Fursty could comment. The throttle levers are traditionally placed side by side. While convenient in normal operation, does this make it easier to move the wrong one in an emergency?
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>> Ergonomics here might be worth looking at - perhaps Fursty could comment.
>> The throttle levers are traditionally placed side by side
I have no idea why or how they could shut down the wrong engine.
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Didn't see the updates! Deleted my whittering.
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Fri 6 Feb 15 at 11:14
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"leave the cockpit, walk down the cabin, look out of the window"
As long as, facing the other way, he doesn't call out "the one on the left".. :-)
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You're right there JBJ. It's open for making mistakes.
How about naming each engine? For example, John, Paul, George and Ringo on a 747.
"George has flamed out!"
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Tinky-Winky, Dipsy, Lala and Po on an A380. They could have colour-coded cowlings and levers too - with appropriately shaped hats on the levers. Foolproof!
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Or perhaps just a label on the throttle levers: "Are you sure?"
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Or a dis-embodied voice, mid atlantic accent "Are you sure you want to do this Dave ?"
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Sonny and Cher on a twin ?
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"Shutting down Tinky Winky..."
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>> You're right there JBJ. It's open for making mistakes.
>>
>> How about naming each engine? For example, John, Paul, George and Ringo on a 747.
>>
>> "George has flamed out!"
Ringo is off beat! Well we all knew that.
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Paul would have to be on the left hand wing.
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>> "leave the cockpit, walk down the cabin, look out of the window"
>>
>> As long as, facing the other way, he doesn't call out "the one on the
>> left".. :-)
>>
>>
Ever since Kegworth quite a lot of effort goes into teaching cabin crew the correct way to identify an engine. If we've suffered an engine problem (only in the sim for me) the conversation with the cabin crew might start "Have you noticed anything unusual?".
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Answer. " Yes. All the people on the port side are screaming."
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"teaching cabin crew the correct way to identify an engine"
I'm slightly alarmed to hear that this might be necessary...
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Ever since Kegworth quite a lot of effort goes into teaching cabin crew the correct way to identify an engine. If we've suffered an engine problem (only in the sim for me) the conversation with the cabin crew might start "Have you noticed anything unusual?".
I'd hope the idea of left and right is as seen from the cockpit seats, in the normal direction of travel? One refers to car bits that way, and it is consistent with the medical profession using the patient's left and right for descriptions.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Fri 6 Feb 15 at 15:14
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I've always referred to "port" and "starboard" with regard to aircraft and boats, but that might have rubbed off from being fascinated with both since I was knee high to a grasshopper. Both parents having worked in aviation might have some role too...
In fact, Little Brother could never remember which foot was left and which was right as a kid - he had to learn that 'left' meant port-side, and vice versa!
I was more surprised to see Flight International using 'left' and 'right'. You'd hope their readers could tell port from starboard :-)
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I think pointing out of the window and screaming might get the point across..
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>> I was more surprised to see Flight International using 'left' and 'right'. You'd hope their
>> readers could tell port from starboard :-)
>>
Never seen engines 'named' port and starboard, either left and right or if more than one engine, numbered.
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Never seen engines 'named' port and starboard, either left and right or if more than one engine, numbered.
Numbering engines though is dangerous, unless in a twin, the left/port engine is one and the right/starboard engine is two.
However, that leads onto cylinder numbering and it all goes wrong. A two or three speed V twin Morgan, cylinder number one is the one on the right/drivers side and number two is on the left/passenger side. And if that seems odd and the same engine in a motorbike the rear cylinder would be number one - true. Magneto timing on a twin is a barrel of laughs, and can be nice and confusing.
I shudder to think how a V engine cylinder could be numbered in an aircraft, and the fact that most aero engined cars put the propeller end at the rear of the car.
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>> Never seen engines 'named' port and starboard, either left and right or if more than
>> one engine, numbered.
>>
>> Numbering engines though is dangerous, unless in a twin, the left/port engine is one and
>> the right/starboard engine is two.
I should have put 'more than two engines' but no there's nothing dangerous about it.
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Haven't port and starboard practically disappeared from commercial aviation, presumably because 'left' and 'right' are more Globish and - well - easier to understand?
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>> Haven't port and starboard practically disappeared from commercial aviation, presumably because 'left' and 'right' are
>> more Globish and - well - easier to understand?
Civil ATC instructions are certainly phrased as left/right and have been for all of the 40 or so years I've earwigged on them.
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>> Haven't port and starboard practically disappeared from commercial aviation, presumably because 'left' and 'right' are
>> more Globish and - well - easier to understand?
>>
Can't say I've seen them, you're probably right an old fashioned term/s not used much now.
Globish= more global?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 6 Feb 15 at 16:31
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Global English. You may not think you speak it - but you do!
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>> Global English.
Ah right thanks
You may not think you speak it - but you do!
Never thought about whether I do or don't tbh.
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>> >> Haven't port and starboard practically disappeared from commercial aviation,
Still used in space.
There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Jim.
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"Haven't port and starboard practically disappeared"
When we're out gallivanting about the North Sea and bothering fish from my mate's boat, we always refer to 'port' and 'starboard'. 'Left' and 'right' can mean anything, depending on which direction the observer is looking from.
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'Left' and 'right' can mean anything, depending on
>> which direction the observer is looking from.
>>
They have replaced port and starboard in aircraft circles, the meanings are clear.
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Ignore HW, he's being wilfully obtuse - and quoting me out of context.
}:---P
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"I shudder to think how a V engine cylinder could be numbered in an aircraft"
Must have been hard work in a Spitfire, then! 14-cylinder radials with two banks (e.g. Twin Wasp) must have been tricky, too...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_R-1830_Twin_Wasp
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Pretty difficult on a fwd 5 cylinder Megola: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAQuljp-atA
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During a past life as an Mot tester, I came across many customers confused by the terms 'nearside - offside' As you all know, in the motor trade they are standard terms for one side or the other, and impossible (In the UK) to be mixed up - no matter what the orientation of car or driver.
You might be surprised by the number of drivers who think that Nearside means the side closest to them.
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>>, I came across many customers confused by the terms 'nearside - offside'
Both my son and daughter, both in their 30s, both very bright and switched on, d o not know these terms and a I get a prod to speak in a language they understand.
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>> Both my son and daughter, both in their 30s, both very bright and switched on,
>> d o not know these terms and a I get a prod to speak in
>> a language they understand.
Me too, son 20 and daughter 22. I think she grasped it with a bit of thought and compliance with 'Dad's 'old fashioned stuff'. The Lad still struggles.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 6 Feb 15 at 22:13
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'Dad's 'old fashioned stuff'.
"Near and Off Side. Left side and right side. “Near wheel†means that to the coachman's left hand; and “near horse†(in a pair) means that to the left hand of the driver. In a four-in-hand the two horses on the left side of the coachman are the near wheeler and the near leader. Those on the right hand side of the coachman are “off horses.†This, which seems an anomaly, arose when the driver walked beside his team. The teamster always walks with his right arm nearest the horse, and therefore, in a pair of horses, the horse on the left side is nearer than the one on his right.
1 3
2 4
Thus, 2 is the near wheeler and 1 the near leader, 4 is the off wheeler and 3 the off leader."
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To be honest, I always thought that nearside meant nearest to the kerb !
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I get a prod to speak in
>> a language they understand.
>>
What words do you use to them?
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"As you all know, in the motor trade they are standard terms for one side or the other, and impossible (In the UK) to be mixed up - no matter what the orientation of car or driver. "
Not a lot of use, then, if you go over to the continent? We should use 'port' and 'starboard' on all vehicles; them old mariners knew what they wuz doing.
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>> Not a lot of use, then, if you go over to the continent? We should
>> use 'port' and 'starboard' on all vehicles; them old mariners knew what they wuz doing.
No they didn't, they used starboard and larboard.
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Going back a few years now, but when I had a boat, I used my own memory jog, No red port left.
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Driver's side & Passenger side works pretty well. If i said near/far side i would just get blank looks.
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"them old mariners knew what they wuz doing."
"no they didn't, they used starboard and larboard."
Jumping in again before engaging brain - you never let us down, Zedd! I said 'old' not 'ancient'. By 'old' I mean around the mid 1850s when the clever mariners realised that larboard sounded too much like starboard and, at that point, the navy also adopted the term 'port'.
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>>
>> Jumping in again before engaging brain - you never let us down, Zedd! I said
>> 'old' not 'ancient'. By 'old' I mean around the mid 1850s when the clever mariners
>> realised that larboard sounded too much like starboard and, at that point, the navy also
>> adopted the term 'port'.
Surely anyone with an engaged brain would have seen it was humour? Well at least "jumping in" made you do a google search and learn something.
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Obviously Zero will know the maritime numbering system in relation to port and starboard, it is not the same as multi engined aircraft. In my time at sea the port / starboard, left / right terminology was becoming blurred. A helm order could equally be " Port wheel steer xxx" or "Come left steer xxx".
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 7 Feb 15 at 10:12
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My little bit of bootneck maritime training (a frigate in the Solent as OOW - closely supervised (!) was as follows.
OOW - "Port 10".
Helmsman." Port 10, sir"
Helmsman "10 of port wheel on"
OOW "steer xxx degrees"
Quite fun driving a ship!
Our other sea-day as supernumeraries on a diesel electric boat was horridly boring.
(Circa 1954)
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"Well at least "jumping in" made you do a google search and learn something."
Powerboat certification training, dear boy - I learned a lot ;-)
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When I had the Westfield ( did I ever mention I had a Westfield? ) and we used to take it on our "great European road adventures" sometimes it was difficult when driving on the right to establish when it was safe to overtake. Unlike a normal car you sit so low to the ground that your sight lines particularly on hilly or mountainous stretches are reduced by a much closer "horizon".
My then girlfriend and now wife used to help by calling out a double check "go" or "no" from the passenger seat. Now with the apocalyptic roar from the engine and wind rush, "go" and "no" can sound quite similar...
We/she fairly quickly decided to change that to "safe" and "no" as being more distinct words.
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I know your views on cricket, Humph, but it might interest you to know that we coach our young players to call 'Yes' or 'No' when judging a run, for exactly that reason. 'Wait' if they're not immediately sure.
But if the future Mrs Humph was the better judge of an overtake, why didn't you just let her drive?
}:---P
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Because the lightweight sports door mirrors were jolly expensive that's why...
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 7 Feb 15 at 11:38
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Do you bulk buy wing / door mirrors ?
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No, but I have just had to order a tin of Nissan red touch up paint today...
:-(
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Does that fix the amber flashy light thingies in the door mirrors ?
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No but it does fix the scratched bumper...
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That's a slippery slope, mirrors, bumpers, where next, wheel arches, doors ? I have a problem driver too, she opened the drivers door in a full gale, fortunately there was a wall alongside the door or the door, wing, hinges and door pillar would have needed repairs. As it was it was just a £300 door edge repair.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 7 Feb 15 at 13:18
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I have proposed the motion that now the supermarkets do home deliveries and clothes can be easily purchased online, that she really doesn't need to leave the safety of her kitchen much and may not be able to justify owning a car in the long term.
So far it has met with what I feel is a fairly unreasonable level of resistance but I remain confident that she will, in due course, come to see the sense in it.
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>> So far it has met with what I feel is a fairly unreasonable level of
>> resistance but I remain confident that she will, in due course, come to see the
>> sense in it.
You may well be able to sell fridges to eskimos, you may well have made it to director of sales, but I can tell you, you have NFC with that one.
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should have got the version with the reversing sensors....
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It has those Bobby. But it doesn't have them at the front. This is not normally a problem as most drivers look where they are flipping going when parking next to brand new Mercs...
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Taiwan's aviation regulator has released data showing the pilot of a TransAsia plane which crashed in Taipei had switched off the working engine after the other lost power.
The report says that in a cockpit recording, the pilot is heard saying: "Wow, pulled back the wrong side throttle."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33358707
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>> The report says that in a cockpit recording, the pilot is heard saying: "Wow, pulled
>> back the wrong side throttle."
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-33358707
Again! This makes at least the third time this has happened.
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>>This makes at least the third time this has happened.
Jeez, you'd think he'd have got the hang of it by now.
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Another plane crash - Stuartli
