I liked this article.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32961309
Might mean something to you Bromp, you being a Leeds-er.
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Thanks M. Interesting report.
As a girl my Mother lived close to Methley at the now demolished hamlet of Astley. Her father was transport manager at Primrose Hill and associated pits owned by the Bowers firm. Primrose Hill closed in the sixties.
The whole landscape of the area has changed since as a result of open cast mining in the seventies.
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Yes, very good piece whose workerism is entirely appropriate for once. In youth had friends from the industrial North and long ago a Geordie girl friend - an Oxford scholar - whose family had been miners and still were almost, although deep pits were closing fast.
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Probably in the mid to late seventies, I went on a Round Table trip down Agecroft Colliery(Ted will know where that is).
The seams there were about 800mm high, and sloped at about 30degrees.
A coalcutting machine went up and down the face, like a zip fastner, and at every pass, the hydraulic props had to be advanced individually. The coal fell on to a conveyor belt in front of the cutter. We were down there for about two hours and returned completely shattered, and we were only visiting.
Final treat was riding back up the seam on a "Manriding Conveyor" - which was a coal conveyor minus the coal.
You dropped on, on all fours, and rolled off at the top.
TERRIFYING!!
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>> Thanks M. Interesting report.
>>
>> As a girl my Mother lived close to Methley at the now demolished hamlet of
>> Astley. Her father was transport manager at Primrose Hill and associated pits owned by the
>> Bowers firm. Primrose Hill closed in the sixties.
>>
>> The whole landscape of the area has changed since as a result of open cast
>> mining in the seventies.
And Maggie Thatcher gets universally abused by t' miners even tho she saved them from this appalling unhealthy dangerous work. Ungrateful Gits
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>> And Maggie Thatcher gets universally abused by t' miners even tho she saved them from
>> this appalling unhealthy dangerous work. Ungrateful Gits
>>
I've long held the view that there was a quiet sigh of relief from the more progressive wing of Labour when the pit closure programme went ahead; for all his rhetoric Kinnock knew full well that such a thing was inevitable given the way the world was going, but he also knew full well that Labour could never deliver it. You'll note too that in the thirteen years of Labour government from 1997 not a single pit was re-opened, nor was any money given in subsidies to the remaining rump of the industry.
I lived through the miners strike, resident in Eastwood at the time; it cost me my job because my then boss was largely dependent on colliery work, but I didn't benefit from the highly enhanced redundancy packages that were handed out, together with the questionable "vibration white finger" compensation later.
The writer's experience was not uncommon. It's somewhat ironic that labour destroyed the grammar school system which was such a force for good in getting working-class children into university and therefore away from the mines and factories; Kinnock himself was a product of that system. Speak to most ex-miners today and whilst they miss the camaraderie and the wages, very few would go back themselves and not one I have spoken to rues the fact that their sons never will.
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>> I lived through the miners strike, resident in Eastwood at the time
My ex came from Coalville, she moved to Eastwood and is now living in another former mining village in the Rhondda. All three places have a certain sense of being shattered about them.
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My Grandfather was a Welsh miner, an awful, awful job. He swore his sons would never go down the mines.
I do not believe that anybody would be a miner from choice. Although there was much to be said for the communities and families around the colliery, there was little to be said for the job itself..
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>>
>> >> And Maggie Thatcher gets universally abused by t' miners even tho she saved them
>> from
>> >> this appalling unhealthy dangerous work. Ungrateful Gits
>> >>
>>
>> I've long held the view that there was a quiet sigh of relief from the
>> more progressive wing of Labour when the pit closure programme went ahead;
The extreme left wing of the Labour party, like the Catholic church, needs its flock to be kept poor ignorant and downtrodden for its own survival.
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Sounds close to the SNP, or is it communism?
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>>It's somewhat ironic that labour destroyed the grammar school system which was such a force for good in getting working-class children into university and therefore away from the mines and factories<<
Oh really? I'm a 'working class' child who suffered under the appalling middle class grammar school system, run in my experience by sad b*********s who wished they were public school teachers.
I'm just grateful to Harold Wilson, Jenny Lee and the enlightened Left who saw the weaknesses and injustices of that system, did their best to abolish it and instituted the Open University, where people like me could be understood and nurtured rather than patronised by a bunch of gown-wearing d***-heads.
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>> run in my experience by sad b*********s who wished they were public school teachers.
I think in my case it was closer to "sad b******S who THOUGHT they were public school teachers".
My Grammar school teachers were, with perhaps one exception, arrogant, sadistic under achievers revelling in the only environment where they could feel any self worth by bullying children.
But I suppose not all Grammar Schools were like that.
Abolishing them was not the best solution, but they certainly needed fixing and disposal was better than nothing.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 9 Jun 15 at 15:24
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>> But I suppose not all Grammar Schools were like that.
The one I went to (in Alcester, still there) seemed ok, although I was ok academically and not a challenger of authority so perhaps didn't see so much of the negative aspects. And from what I remember the teachers (including my mum!) didn't match your description either - not perfect, probably some arrogance, but I'd dispute sadistic and bullying.
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The GS I went to was pretty good, though I didn't make the best use of it if I'm honest.
My usual observation - a fish generally rots from the head, the head teacher in this case. We only had one sadist, a few ineffectual types and reasonable discipline without any vicious enforcement. The cane was permitted but was mostly theoretical.
It was co-educational, which probably helped.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 9 Jun 15 at 15:57
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Yes, ours was co-ed too, and the cane was only administered a handful (< 5?) of times in the 7 years I was there. It was a Big Event.
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>> the cane was only administered a handful (< 5?) of times in the 7 years
I doubt a week went past where the headmaster did not use his long bamboo cane and the games master his rugby boot.
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>>My Grammar school teachers were, with perhaps one exception, arrogant, sadistic under
>>achievers revelling in the only environment where they could feel any self worth by bullying
>>children.
Quite probably. Public school masters were just the same, anecdotally. Savage beatings; s3xual abuse; the lot. Possibly worse than your Grammar schools as they were in loco parentis. A reflection I think of the time.
But it's completely wrong to blame this on the academic approach of the school system. Kent, Cheshire and some other local authorities still have Grammar schools. And I guarantee that they're not full of sadistic under achievers revelling in bullying children.
So I think you've completely mixed up cause and effect.
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>> it's completely wrong to blame this on the academic approach of the school system
I think that there was an attitude which said we were lucky to be at the Grammar School. I think this made families grateful and less likely to complain, and made the schools feel righteous and powerful.
So whilst to an extent I agree, I do think that there was an indirect connection that at least facilitated the behaviour.
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>> I think that there was an attitude which said we were lucky to be at
>> the Grammar School.
But wouldn't that be even more so at what's left of the grammars today? My son's in the last year at his, and while some teachers are better than others, I'm pretty sure we'd get to find out about any really bad ones. Or are we just lucky because they can't get away with it these days?
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>>But wouldn't that be even more so at what's left of the grammars today?
I don't know. My impression is that such people have been gradually driven from the system, but I don't really know.
I haven't really had any contact with the state education system since I left it a gazillion years ago.
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>> >> the Grammar School.
>>
>> My
>> son's in the last year at his
Reading School? My boy's about to sit the 11+ this September.
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>> Reading School? My boy's about to sit the 11+ this September.
Yep - good luck! It seems to have suited son quite well, and he's leaving with fond memories. But you don't need me to tell you it's not the end of the world if he doesn't get in - one of stepsons tried and failed, going to Forest in Winnersh instead, which suited him fine.
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>> you don't need me to tell you it's not the end
>> of the world if he doesn't get in - one of stepsons tried and failed,
>> going to Forest in Winnersh instead, which suited him fine.
Yes indeed. His back up school is fine these days. Trying not to put to much pressure on him but it's a difficult balance.
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>>made the schools feel righteous and powerful [being a Grammar School]
The worst abuses reportedly happened to children in care; they certainly weren't 'lucky' to be there. Or maybe they were. But they weren't at the top of the perceived social pile, anyway.
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>> Oh really? I'm a 'working class' child who suffered under the appalling middle class grammar
>> school system, run in my experience by sad b*********s who wished they were public school
>> teachers.
>> I'm just grateful to Harold Wilson, Jenny Lee and the enlightened Left who saw the
>> weaknesses and injustices of that system, did their best to abolish it and instituted the
>> Open University, where people like me could be understood and nurtured rather than patronised by
>> a bunch of gown-wearing d***-heads.
>>
You lost me at the phrase "enlightened Left".... we're only now reaping the harvest of the damage such people did to the educational system of this country.
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>>You lost me at the phrase "enlightened Left".... we're only now reaping the harvest of the damage such people did to the educational system of this country<<
The words 'Gove' and 'Michael' suggest themselves, in no particular order.
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Mike, in previous postings to this site, I've made no secret of the fact that I am one of the minority centre-left posters.
I went to a grammar school. About 10% of us were from poor families (my own was extremely poor). I never experienced any prejudice or snobbery at all, though my antenna are extremely sensitive to both things.
If anything, I always felt that the teachers were that little bit MORE helpful to the boys from poorer backgrounds.
Now, I know that you will say that my school was probably an exception. Maybe it was. However, I don't think that the answer to Britain's educational problems lies in destroying good schools out of spite or dogma - it lies in raising the standards of the failing schools, and tackling the education gap as soon as children start school, as Liz Kendall is very keen on.
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>> I went to a grammar school. About 10% of us were from poor families (my
>> own was extremely poor). I never experienced any prejudice or snobbery at all, though my
>> antenna are extremely sensitive to both things.
>>
My thumb.
I could have written this, word for word.
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Me too, I never experienced any prejudice whatsoever.
It always makes me smile though when people say 'uniform is a great leveller'!
The poor kids uniform was always too small/tight/short and well worn so we stuck out like a sore thumb.
Pat
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>>The poor kids uniform was always too small/tight/short and well worn so we stuck out like a sore thumb.
Whilst that is true, less kids stick out and those who stick out, stick out less than when allowing children to come in with the latest fashions, which involves horrendously expensive labels.
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Did your grammar school not teach you that antenna is singular and therefore if you only have one it should be "my antenna is" ?
Since all creatures have multiple antennae, unless of course one or more have has been lost in an accident, "my antennae are" would probably be more appropriate.
Yours pedantically,
ex Grammar School boy. Ordinary Level English Language Grade B, Zoology Grade C.
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>> Yours pedantically,
Spot on
duty pedant (retd)
Gone for retraining.
8o)
Last edited by: neiltoo on Wed 10 Jun 15 at 11:52
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>>Since all creatures have multiple antennae,
+
>> Zoology Grade C.
= You must have cheated.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 10 Jun 15 at 13:38
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snipquote!
>> ex Grammar School boy. Ordinary Level English Language Grade B, Zoology Grade C.
I was going by "antenna" as used in "TV Antenna". I did foreign languages and History/Economics as my major subjects.
I never did none of that there English Grammar like what you did! ;-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 10 Jun 15 at 16:49
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>> My thumb.
>>
>> I could have written this, word for word.
>>
And mine, for the same reasons.
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>> >>You lost me at the phrase "enlightened Left".... we're only now reaping the harvest of
>> the damage such people did to the educational system of this country<<
>>
>> The words 'Gove' and 'Michael' suggest themselves, in no particular order.
>>
>>
>>
Ah, so you've acknowledged his major contribution towards righting those wrongs then? ;-)
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>>
>> And Maggie Thatcher gets universally abused by t' miners even tho she saved them from
>> this appalling unhealthy dangerous work. Ungrateful Gits
>>
Who conveniently forget that the previous Labour administration started the closures.
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Well, whatever. The grammar school I attended cost me 20 valuable years, a fact I will resent as long as I have any life left.
When you've seen your father laughed at because he was driving a lorry you don't forget, I can tell you.
The only thing that pleases me is that many of the people who made my life a misery are still flogging away in the rat race, while I was clever - or lucky - enough to get out years ago.
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Wed 10 Jun 15 at 15:00
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>> The grammar school I attended cost me 20 valuable years,
I guess I got lucky, I was expelled.
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>> Well, whatever. The grammar school I attended cost me 20 valuable years, a fact I
>> will resent as long as I have any life left.
Sorry Mike, am I missing something, you were there for at most 7 years how can it cost you 20 years of your life?
I went to a fee paying grammar school in Glasgow, one of a small number of kids from council houses whose parents worked all sorts of hours to get me an education I could not have got in the local school which was the alternative. I did not encounter any kind of discrimination at any leve, from staff or from fellow pupils, maybe I was lucky.
School, especially secondary school, is only a small part of your life, you have obviously moved on successfully maybe it's time to leave the resentment behind.
If I am being an interfering busybody, sorry.
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My dad was a coalminer. Born in 1925, he celebrates his 90th next week and, linking in with the beer thread, I went over to the Adnams beer shop in Woodbridge yesterday to get a case of assorted ales for the family get-together. In recent years, the base of dad’s spine seems to have given way somehow, interfering with the nerves to his legs with the result that he can’t walk …….... but nevertheless, he has outlived all of his mateys. His main incentive for keeping going seems to be the thought of getting his concessionary coal forever or, until fossil fuels run out. He has been burning solid fuel since 1943 and is single-handedly responsible for much of the global warming.
After leaving school, he was learning the shoe trade, and contemplating being called up for service. As he approached his 18th birthday, one of the village elders took him to one side and said that he oughtn’t to join the army, but rather go down the pit in consideration for his family – his father was a blind basket-weaver, mother invalided with some (I think) kidney issues, and his brother suffering chronic asthma. So, the pit it was.
He worked above ground at Desford Colliery (Leics) and, after training, went down pit when he was 18 in 1943. Shortly afterwards, he was joined by the ‘Bevin Boys’.
Sometime in the 1970’s, someone realized that miners couldn’t really go on until they were 65, so the retirement age was to be brought down; more youngsters would have to be brought in and trained. Dad came up from the coalface as an instructor, but this was to be fairly short-lived as the whole of the industry was rapidly wound down. He was made redundant in 1981.
My younger sister and I both passed our 11+ and attended Coalville Grammar School. My sister went on to complete an education degree and became a teacher; I studied applied biology and phytopathology and worked for a major German chemical company – neither of us went down pit!
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If you were brought up in a mining area going 'down the pit' was the natural career choice. In spite of his scholarship to Lawnswood Grammer School and School Cert there was an assumption that my maternal uncle would join the workforce of Bowers - soon to be enjoined into the National Coal Board.
Going to the General Post Office's Telephones section as a Youth in Training was a bit of a rebellion.
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Life down the pit - Bromptonaut
