If you are not aware it looks like "junior" doctors will come out on strike so ensure you do not miss any elective surgery or non urgent hospital appointments.
Contrary to what a lot of folks believe, junior hospital doctors are all those below consultant level and not those just out of Medical school.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-cancels-open-meeting-7-6533123
How to make things worse. Cancelling at 5 hours notice after many had made arrangements to attend just upped the anger.
www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/01/medical-schools-accused-of-stifling-protest-at-junior-doctors-contract
Medical schools accused of stifling protest against junior doctors contract
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-junior-doctor-contract-protest-parliament-square-october-a6675046.html
Parliament Square at 2pm on Saturday 17 October, with a Facebook event currently showing 7,000 people marked as attending.
I declare an interest as my daughter is a dedicated "junior" doctor who has been learning the job for 18 years but is not directly affected by these proposed changes but is fully supporting them.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34419123
Health Secretary Shona Robison....
"I have also given the conference a cast iron guarantee that we will not be following the UK Government's plans to cut junior doctors' pay"
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 2 Oct 15 at 00:15
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We are exporting trained doctors, mainly to "nice" countries, because of our treatment of them.
Correspondingly, due to the shortage thus created,we are importing doctors from parts of the third world, where their skills are really needed by their own countries.
Seems a bit skewed to me.
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Trainee train driver's jobs were advertised recently at £24,000 pa, paid while free training is given, and a junior hospital doctor's starting salary is c. £22,000, having had to pay for his or her own training beforehand.
There is a perfectly logical reason for this, I just can't think what it is at the moment, but I can understand the junior doctors feeling miffed.
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>> a junior hospital doctor's starting salary is c. £22,000, having had to pay
>> for his or her own training beforehand.
Do they pay for their training, or would it be more accurate to say that they make a contribution toward the cost?
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My eldest has just started year 4 at medical school.
Fees are £9k per year. Accommodation is £4k per year. Food and living expenses are about £3k per year. Travelling to different training sites around south is about £3k per year. So about £19k p/a in total. There is very little "partying" - there just isn't the time.
This year's elective in New Zealand cost about £7k in total - everyone took fees, the university here, the university hospital in NZ, the High Commission, medical certs were required and specialist X-Rays, specialist insurances etc.
Interest on the loans start from day 1 so over £60k owed already.
The £22k salary for a junior doctor is dreadful. A cousin straight from college (BTEC) is earning £20k p/a in an insurance call centre.
The hospital in NZ was keen to suggest a return when studies are completed.
Eldest is the first in our family to go to University having got A* in Physics, Chemistry and Biology at "A" level. Specific exams on top of the "A" levels were demanded - the BMAT and UKCAT exams - all at our expense. Most students on the course have parents that are professionals - doctors etc and are at an advantage because they can just call home if they don't understand something.
My doctor got in to medical school on 3 Cs at A level (in the 90s) and all his training was free. I was chatting to him last time I saw him and he advised that he does'nt know how the current generation manage with the costs.
One UK university is not taking UK students on their medical degree this year: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34326453, preferring to charge foreign students £36k PA.
The Govt. restricts the number of students that can study medicine and dentistry. These are the only courses that have numbers restricted at Govt. level - it is as if they want to keep the numbers low.
The Govt is effectively removing overtime from Saturday working which will cut the salary for many junior doctors by about £5k P/a.
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Zippy
Your support and interest is so valuable.
Many outside of the scene may not be aware that med students do not get weeks off attending Uni but slog all the way through.
My daughter also does teaching and training of doctors so they get the best of both worlds, new experience and older experience of the "trade"
She chose to do a DPhil so that was a delay of three and a half years on the ladder to consultant but still did normal hospital work.
With a notional two years left of training so now has a four year contract so a further two years delay. I know some " diversions" were her choice but all were progressions in her chosen speciality but 20 years of intensive non stop training since she left sixth form so IMO I do not think she is paid enough for her skills
>>The Govt. restricts the number of students that can study medicine and dentistry. These are the only courses that have numbers restricted at Govt. level - it is as if they want to keep the numbers low.
The same government that is going to give us more GPs, seven days a week, more consultants
seven days a week etc. etc.
They have in the last few years opened two new med schools so thats solved that!!!
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>> and a junior hospital doctor's starting salary is c. £22,000, having had to pay
>> for his or her own training beforehand.
>>
Medical school training and tuition fees etc..
Minimum of four years IF you already have a degree.
Norm was and I believe still is five years
My daughter did six years that includes a one year intercalated BSc
( a BSc will be good for your career . )
Some Med schools now require students to do a BSc.
The cost is the normal £9000 for each year plus her living expenses ( in London)
I subsidised my daughter and lost count of how many expensive books I bought.
She found all the funds from a variety of sources for her elective placement
www.medicalcareers.nhs.uk/medical_students/electives.aspx
which she did in the third world.
Her training was before the £9K fees era.
She has to pay to attend European and international conferences in her speciality.
Obviously many doctors do not do this.
Her insurance cost for medical liability is eye watering (Ii guess it is the most expensive of all )
IMO train drivers have an easier time.
>> There is a perfectly logical reason for this, I just can't think what it is
>> at the moment, but I can understand the junior doctors feeling miffed.
>>
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Is £22k what they actually get paid or is it, in practice, upped considerably by shift allowances and other enhancements?
If it really is that low the £18.5k FTE for my paid assessor role at CAB looks remarkable.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 2 Oct 15 at 11:29
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>> If it really is that low the £18.5k FTE for my paid assessor role at
>> CAB looks remarkable.
Is that usual? That seems very low given the skills that they need.
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I was on just over 20k for the same role but carrying supervisory responsibilities Mark. Most that do the jobs are graduate level, but remember this is the third sector and money is tight. I wasn't doing it for the money (but the money was handy) as I have a decent enough occupational pension - but I would imagine that that sort of money would be a struggle for a single earner with a family. Tax Credits are common for Caseworkers (probably on around 22kish) - the CEO was on around 46k.
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Junior doctors going on strike. - Lygonos
