A piece of the radio over the weekend had me asking Mrs B when Louis Armstrong's name stopped being pronounced Lewie and became Lewis.
Canada has a new PM today, Justin Trudeau son of Pierre Trudeau. Surname pronounced true - doh as long as I can remember. Chap on R5 this morning kept using true-doo.
IIRC Pierre's wife had a reputation of her own....
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 20 Oct 15 at 16:55
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They do it all the time Bromptonaut, teenage Aussies working for peanuts, self-expressing cheap hustlers from the comprehensive system, snooty morons from the private sector, no one can read or write any more. I try not to notice too much. The odd wince perhaps.
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On Armstrong Wiki says:
Judging from home recorded tapes now in our Museum Collections, Louis pronounced his own name as "Lewis." On his 1964 record "Hello, Dolly," he sings, "This is Lewis, Dolly" but in 1933 he made a record called "Laughin’ Louie." Many broadcast announcers, fans, and acquaintances called him "Louie" and in a videotaped interview from 1983 Lucille Armstrong calls her late husband "Louie" as well. Musicians and close friends usually called him "Pops."
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The city has always been 'Saint Lewis', though; 'Snt Lewie', as often heard out of English mouths, is just wrong. As, for that matter, is 'Los Angeleez'.
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>>As, for that matter, is 'Los Angeleez'.
How should it be done?
What about Burnley. Do you expect the BBC announcer to adopt a broad Lancastrian accent?
In fact, wasn't there an outcry over the pronunciation of James Bulger. It was arrogant to refer to him as 'Bahlger' but patronising to the Liverpudlians to use 'Booolger'. You lose some, you lose some.
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>> >>As, for that matter, is 'Los Angeleez'.
>>
>> How should it be done?
Damned if I know and I've lived there.
An H instead of the G if you want to pretend you're a Spanish speaker, I guess; but since its in an English speaking country that wouldn't make sense.
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Nice article here with some more options for getting it wrong:
articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/26/local/la-me-0626-then-20110626
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I noticed when there that it was pronounced in a lot of different ways, although L'sanglis seemed prevalent. Anyway Angelenos don't care or even listen, and they often think they come from some specific part of the meagacity, Burbank, Hollywood...
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>> some specific part of the meagacity, Burbank, Hollywood...
Malibu. That's what those three dots meant.
Drove a nice little bronze VW Beetle convertible down that Malibu road with its gentle hairpins. Stupid time and place, and yes, I was as thick as pigscheiss too. It was nice though, good climate. You can sort of see what people see in CA, dumbass scheisshole though it is.
Not sure you'd want to live there though. Six weeks are enough. Stay too long and you may never be seen again, knowImean?
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Poor old Van Gough - been largely mis-pronounced by many. Misunderstood in life and death
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>>Poor old Van Gough
Was he related to van Gogh?
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>> Damned if I know and I've lived there.
>>
>> An H instead of the G if you want to pretend you're a Spanish speaker,
>> I guess; but since its in an English speaking country that wouldn't make sense.
edit, WDBs post covers it
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 20 Oct 15 at 18:06
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What about Burnley. Do you expect the BBC announcer to adopt a broad Lancastrian accent?
Big difference between using the same consonants and basic vowels as the locals ('Loss Anjel-ezz') and outright mimicry ('Boorn-leh').
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>>Big difference
Really? Is it PariS or Paree? Sint Tropez or San Tropay?
What about Jerez? What are you going to do with that that 'uses the same consonants and 'basic' (whatever that means) vowels as the locals'?
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>> Really? Is it PariS or Paree? Sint Tropez or San Tropay?
That's an odd one because PariS is pretty much universal in UK English. Paree would look pretentious. The same may have been said of San Tropay thirty years ago but, like Myorca rather than Madge Orca it's become accepted/recognised.
But then wee have domestic ones too.
Shrows bury or Shrews bury?
Do you eat Sconns or sc owns? Is the L in Almonds pronounced?
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>> Myorca rather than Madge Orca
Depending on which particular flavour of Spanish you speak "ll" can be more like "j" than "y".
So in Catalan, which is spoken by the locals something similar to a "y" is most correct. However, for many Spaniards from else where in the country it is closer to a "j".
So for the Brits speaking English then Majorca, Mayorca and Mallorca all work. As long as you're understood its usually only pompousness on the behalf of other Brits.
Mind you, since the Spanish visit Londres rather than London, I cannot see why we wouldn't equally visit MaLLorca, ditto with the French and Pariss and the Portuguese with Lisbunn.
For me then I myself personally use the one most applicable to the language I am speaking at the time.
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To local locations in my region that are not what they seem
Esher for some reason is Eesher.
Of course Van Go lived in Islewoth of Red Barrel / Grotneys fame.
It is not Isle Worth but I sl worth apparently from Thisleworth and nothing to do with islands in the Thames.
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The football club Ajax of Amsterdam is now pronounced Ayax, where as it used to be said the same as the domestic product of the same name. Similarly Milan is now Meelan.
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>> The football club Ajax of Amsterdam is now pronounced Ayax, where as it used to
>> be said the same as the domestic product of the same name.
Milky Bar; Nessels or Nesslay?
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Ajax? Always been AYax to me, Robin!
There is a certain arrogance of English speakers who decide how they'll pronounce 'foreign' names as they are spelt, and as a semi-Johnny Foreigner myself it is baffling.
In addition, just anglicising names confuses me... Brunswick, Munich, Cologne and Florence spring to mind.
Continuing on a footballing theme, though, remember Lucas Radder-bee from Leeds?
And Peter Ndluuurve?
(properly pronounce had-dare-bear and Nd- loave-oo)
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...anglicising names...Cologne...Florence...
Didn't the French give us those two? A very long time ago, too.
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>> The city has always been 'Saint Lewis', though; 'Snt Lewie', as often heard out of
>> English mouths, is just wrong.
Unless the at that stage delectable Judy Garland was singing "Meet me in St Louis, Louis" of course.
Damn. Now I shall have to watch it again for the millionth time.
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Launceston in Cornwall is a good one.
Pronounced lawn-ston, sometimes 'lawn-son'.
However in Tasmania the town of Launceston is pronounced lawn-ces-ton.
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>> Launceston in Cornwall is a good one.
My daughter, now living near Plymouth, follows her NHS colleagues and pronounces it 'Lannson'.
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Cirencester - locals (used to) rhyme it with "sister".
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>> Cirencester - locals (used to) rhyme it with "sister".
Towcester (where I spent 90 minutes this afternoon due to a capsized lorry on the A43) foxes a few.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 20 Oct 15 at 19:14
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And Norwich rhymes with porridge. There is no "itch" !
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Tong or Tung? Tong(ue) for me.
Lorry or Lurry? Lurry for me.
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I don't mind regional variations in speech, but why can't people, especially in the communication industries, say:
Sixth (sikth)
Fifth (fith)
Doubleyou) (dubyew)
and many others
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Well with my surname being Cholmondley-Featherstonehaugh* I ought to be the arbiter of such matters.
*it isn't
;-)
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>> Well with my surname being Cholmondley-Featherstonehaugh*
Somebody on the old Urban Cyclist newsgroup posted as Aloysius Cholmondley-Featherstonehaugh
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>> >> Well with my surname being Cholmondley-Featherstonehaugh*
>>
>> Somebody on the old Urban Cyclist newsgroup posted as Aloysius Cholmondley-Featherstonehaugh
>>
I am delighted to confirm that it isn't me. My legs remain resolutely hirsute, my favoured mode of transport unapologetically "unsustainable".
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Only if you attempting a Norfolk dialect. The correct standard English as used by the BBC is Norridge.
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The correct standard English as used by the
>> BBC is Norridge.
>>
Well that rules out any norfolker i ever met. They all had quite an accent.
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>> >>
>>
>> Well that rules out any norfolker i ever met. They all had quite an accent.
>>
>>
And they would have all pronounced Norwich as Norridge
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>>My daughter, now living near Plymouth, follows her NHS colleagues and pronounces it 'Lannson'.
Mostly by the older proper Cornish, others, me included pronounce it Lawn-ston.
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So how do you pronounce Penistone?
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>> So how do you pronounce Penistone?
>>
Pennystun?
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>Pennystun?
As an ex-pupil of Penistone Grammar School I can confirm that Bromp is correct.
It might not stay that way though. I heard that Streatham is now pronounced Saint Reatham.
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>>So how do you pronounce Penistone?
===> www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIYJeytFhmo
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>> >> Launceston in Cornwall is a good one.
>>
>> My daughter, now living near Plymouth, follows her NHS colleagues and pronounces it 'Lannson'.
>>
I hate to say this but Bromp has it right. If I had to be pedantic I'd say, 'They' say Laanson, if you get my drift?
It puzzled me for quite a few years.
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>> On his 1964 record "Hello, Dolly," he sings, "This is Lewis, Dolly"
>>
Quite right. Have the Hello Dolly track on a LP somewhere it the attic.
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Praze-An-Beeble [Pras an Bibel]
:}
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Every country is entitled to have its own names and pronunciations of foreign names if it wants.
It works both ways - remember doing French learning the french words for English Channel, London, etc? We don't get all huffy because the french call it Londres, and say things like "It must be London, that's how the locals say it".
It's perfectly correct to say Germany, Finland, Hungary, Switzerland, Rome, Geneva, etc.
Obvious when in the country one tries to use the local word, but externally, a multiple system has worked well for centuries.
It's just pretentious to say Paree, Suomi, Confederation Helvetica, Moscva, etc.
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English spellings are often not written as pronounced. So some deviation will happen naturally over time.
As long as meaning is conveyed correctly most people will be happy with that.
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Oi loike Piddletrenthide!
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>> Oi loike Piddletrenthide!
Upton Snodsbury, Peopleton and Crowle
North Piddle, Wyre Piddle, Piddle in The Hole.
>>
Last edited by: Ted on Wed 21 Oct 15 at 18:51
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>> Confederation Helvetica
So that's why Swiss cars have CH on them. I had often wondered, but for some bizarre reason never thought to find out. Thank you.
I had assumed there was some convoluted Swiss German way of spelling Schweiz, i.e. Chweiz or something.
Whaddayaknow.
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A cartoon from Facebook.
(You may need a FB account to see it)
tinyurl.com/qak6ovk
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Very good - I'd watch it. ;-0
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Not exactly pronunciation, but not worth a whole thread on its own.
I overheard this today, and I thought that young people do seem to want to make a meal of a simple phrase.
Where I would have said "I thought", and indeed just did, a young lady said "..and in my head I was like..."
Which seems altogether more wordy to me. Like.
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I was like.... she was like....
Dreadful changes to the language..... innit?
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Almost as irritating as the ghastly trend of people beginning the answer to a question with 'so'. Or people making every comment into a question? :-)
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Watch Countryfile.....whenever a presenter asks someone a question to which an affirmative reply is given..........90% of interviewees start with 'absolutely '.
Yes would do nicely.
Our local Morrisons had a loudspeaker girl who constantly told the store that if you bought such and such a thing, you'd get another one ' absolutely ' free . I told a manager that free was free...There were no degrees of free. He showed an unusual lack of interest !
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>> if you bought such and such a thing, you'd get another one ' absolutely ' free. I told a >>manager that free was free...There were no degrees of free. He showed an unusual lack of >>interest !
>>
Free also means unfettered, without conditions.
To be told that if you buy one item, you will receive two does not mean that the second item is free. If it's free, just take the second item.
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>>There were no degrees of free.
>>
Free with strings attached?
Free lunch?
Free to qualifying applicants please read the terms and conditions?
There are lots of degrees of free :)
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Wrong/Changing Pronunciation - Armel Coussine
