Personally, I won't wear one before the week preceding armistice day.
What's with all these presenters on the telly doing it in October?
I also thought that gentlemen wore it in their LH lapel and ladies in their right. The ladies can't seem to make up their minds on the telly and one gent reporting from merkin land had his on his RH lapel.
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Not bothered where it's worn, or if it's worn at all - it's still voluntary, isn't it? But don't start too soon, and do wear a plain paper one; those Look-At-Me-I-Care-More-Than-You enamelled jobs are just awful.
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>> What's with all these presenters on the telly doing it in October?
It does seem to have crept back into October in recent years but once it starts....
Not just presenters either - coverage of commons etc suggests same in other public fora.
We had the Northampton St Crispin Fair outside the office early this week. Today there are poppies on the lampposts round All Saints Church.
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People start wearing them when they go on sale; so presumably this is to do with that happening earlier and earlier.
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I wear a suit in the week and usually the poppy gets damaged so I buy the wrist bands.
I think they are given them early on TV to raise awareness.
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>> I wear a suit in the week and usually the poppy gets damaged so I buy the wrist bands.
Oh!
You are one of those men that wear wrist bands, are you?
Hmm.
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Nothing wrong with that Duncan.
Pat
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>> Nothing wrong with that Duncan.
>>
>> Pat
>>
You are, of course, as usual, absolutely right.
Wrist bands are a very useful identifier.
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>>Wrist bands are a very useful identifier<<
...of a confident and self assured person content with their own identity.
Pat
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>> I also thought that gentlemen wore it in their LH lapel and ladies in their
>> right. The ladies can't seem to make up their minds on the telly and one
>> gent reporting from merkin land had his on his RH lapel.
>>
I don't think there's any real rules in wearing. I don't wear mine until November, usually ends up in a bit of a state quite quickly.
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Although I usually lob a pound or two into the the donation box I don't bother with the poppy.
The military charities do receive a lot of money from the public so I direct my charity payments to less well supported causes.
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i never wear one either. It's just not me. I don't ever dress smartly enough these days to have a lapel, and I won't make pin holes in my clothing ! I contribute to the BL as I'm very conscious of the work they do through CAB. I'm not self assured enough to wear a wrist band.
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>> I never wear one either. It's just not me.
Same here. I put a few pounds in the tin but decline the poppy. I feel a certain degree of smartness is necessary to display "look at me" fashion accessories.
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>> >> I never wear one either. It's just not me.
Chuck a quid in the tin, but only wear one if I have a lapel.
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>>I don't ever dress smartly enough these days to have a lapel,
I'm with ^this Geyser.
:o)
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I have a windscreen sticker in the lorry (in quiet defiance of the company rule against such things but I'm gleefully waiting for an office jobsworth to say something) and I am also of the wristband fraternity; quite simply because a "standard" poppy wouldn't last two minutes in my work environment.
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I don't like these enamel or jewel laden versions...they look crass and "look at me". The old fashioned Poppy's charm and respect was in its simplicity, in the old days made by disabled ex-service people,...wire wrapped in green paper, poppy out of paper. I saw some chavvy type woman wearing one the other day...yuck. I have a badge I bought to help pay for the Flanders war Memorial for the Welsh. It bears a poppy and a flag of Wales and Flanders. I may dig that out.
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>> I don't like these enamel or jewel laden versions...they look crass and "look at me".
>>
Can be handy if it risks looking scruffy and crushed quickly.
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I gladly put money in the tin and indeed gladly pin the poppy ( damn the spellcheck which nearly tricked me into typing 'puppy' ) on whatever I'm wearing. On the left of course, wouldn't feel right elsewhere. Inevitably though it falls off before the day is out leaving a pin lurking ready to do its worst when you take the garment off. Wristbands fine but never on the same wrist as your watch. Obviously.
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Ahh but you have skirted round the delicate issue of wearing an enamel poppy pin with white Umbro trainers.
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Neither of those courses of action stands up to much scrutiny. Unless of course it provides an opportunity to win a bet or something I suppose.
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Hi Runfer, where ya bin? We wondered if you'd done yourself a mischief on that old MTB boneshaker.
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Not that I'm a lickpenny......but I've managed to retain the same poppy for 4 years now. It is a ' luxury ' one, though.
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No, just stupidly/outrageously busy of late I'm afraid. Some of it for good reasons, bits of it not. Same as most people I guess. ;-)
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I once willingly went round the village door knocking for the BL. Bit futile really and only did it once as I don't like charities knocking on my door. Everybody already had a poppy. Those that answered their doors anyway.
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Why not?
Is there a worry that this means he didn't pay his £1? Perhaps a fear that whoever makes them lost out on the chance to make another one?
Stuff and nonsense.
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Poppycock, Brompton.
It seems like an exceptionally sensible thing to do. Old photo, no poppy, add one.
It's not the same as "won't wear a poppy."
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Bit of a silly slip though! Did Central office think they could slip a blurred fake poppy in, to an already published photo?
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You'd certainly think his publicity people would know it would be spotted and how loads of knickers would get in a twist over it.
I am slightly concerned these days that people are hunting down poppy offences in much the same way that McCarthy hunted down supposed communists.
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Just a harmless and rather ridiculous faux pas in the poppy case.
But on more serious matters I think we should be suspicious of airbrushing inconvenient history.
If any footage ever surfaces of the Cameron poke in a pig episode, I expect the pig will be found to have given consent.
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>> Poppycock, Brompton.
Really? Do you Mark and Rob actually think it was the donation aspect that is being being mocked?
If Central Office genuinely couldn't find a proper photo of the PM with a poppy then photo shop might have been a solution. However:
(a) Do it professionally; make sure the poppy is placed properly on his lapel and remove the stall
(b) be aware that web search tools make it easy to 'match' the original picture and rumble the deceit.
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>>deceit
Deceit? Really? Do you really think that it was deceitful?
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>> Deceit? Really? Do you really think that it was deceitful?
I could have chosen a different word but anything intended to mislead another: fraud: falseness (Chambers Dictionary) seems to cover it.
Low level stuff but I bet the people responsible have been 'carpeted' this morning.
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So this is a headline which is essentially "Shock, horror, some people bad with Photoshop. Nation's media in uproar"
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>> i never wear one either.
+1.
Like I said last year when it came up.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=18448&m=406806
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Words fail me at this thread but in true Pat fashion I will have a go....
Poppy protocol? Surely the way a poppy is worn is not important but the reason for wearing it.
Which leads nicely to the fact that if anyone in the public eye doesn't wear one they are vilified by all and sundry.
Broadly speaking, those being remembered were fighting for our freedom.
Freedom of choice, not peer pressure as seems to be the case now.
There is only one poppy protocol.
Wear it with pride or not at all.
Right way up, with or without stalks, real or fake it's the thought that counts.
Pat
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Perhaps when the last veteran of the Second World War dies remembrance day should be scaled down and the world wars allowed to slip quietly into history with all the other wars of the past.
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>> Perhaps when the last veteran of the Second World War dies remembrance day should be
>> scaled down and the world wars allowed to slip quietly into history with all the
>> other wars of the past.
Must be 30 years since I voiced idea that 2018/19 would be a good opportunity to recast the remembrance Sunday ceremony.
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The last WW1 veteran died in 2011, 93 years after the war ended. Going by that we won't see the last WW2 veteran pass until about 2038. We have a bit of time to worry about what happens to Remembrance Sunday still. Blimey, I'll have been a year retired by then (hopefully).
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Gives us some time to gently wind the whole thing down.
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>> Gives us some time to gently wind the whole thing down.
>>
Do you mean that the dead and injured from Korea, the Falklands, Iraq, Afganistan, and Syria if the politicians get their way, are any less worthy of honouring and supporting?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 3 Nov 15 at 13:34
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No but perhaps there need to be a change in the way we honour those people. I would suggest that military wreath laying ceremonies, tombs of unknown soldiers etc don't really have much relevance with younger generations. When those for whom it does have a relevance are gone perhaps it will be time for a change.
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>> tombs of unknown soldiers etc don't really have much relevance with younger generations. When those for whom it does have a relevance are gone perhaps it will be time for a change.
Change to what CGN? Commemoration Lite?
'Younger generations' either know a bit of history, or urgently need to learn some. They can and should be taught this stuff, not encouraged to dismiss it as irrelevant.
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>> >> Gives us some time to gently wind the whole thing down.
>> >>
>>
>> Do you mean that the dead and injured from Korea, the Falklands, Iraq, Afganistan, and
>> Syria if the politicians get their way, are any less worthy of honouring and supporting?
>>
Malaya, Suez, Northern Ireland.
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>> Malaya, Suez, Northern Ireland.
>>
Palestine, Cyprus, Kenya, Borneo, and the covert ones we don't hear about. I can remember going to collect the ships mail in Cyprus escorted by two army armoured cars.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 3 Nov 15 at 17:51
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But the question is how long are we going to have a ceremonies basically designed for the dead of the Great War and Second World War. Will not these historical events fade into history? Who is now commemorating the dead of the Napoleonic and Crimean Wars?
Perhaps the best memorial to the victims of modern conflicts would be ensuring that they are looked after properly and that as a nation we do our utmost to avoid entering unnecessary wars. The improved teaching of our history would be a big help.
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>> But the question is how long are we going to have a ceremonies basically designedfor the dead of the Great War and Second World War. Will not these historical events fade into history? Who is now commemorating the dead of the Napoleonic and Crimean
>> Wars?
The shear volume of recorded media means it's much less likely to fade away. It was the first two wars that were very large, had a large amount of first hand recordable information and that played such a huge part in shaping us socially.
>> Perhaps the best memorial to the victims of modern conflicts would be ensuring that they are looked after properly and that as a nation we do our utmost to avoid entering unnecessary wars. The improved teaching of our history would be a big help.
I don't think its a case of either or.
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Time will tell. I rather suspect that there will be only a handful of people attending Remembrance Day services and parades in 30 years time.
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>> Time will tell. I rather suspect that there will be only a handful of people attending Remembrance Day services and parades in 30 years time.
It will indeed, but i be very surprised if it reduced in our national consciousness.
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Ask a thirteen year old what he knows about the first world war.
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About as much a 13 year old knew about WW1 10, 20, 30 years ago i would imagine.
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Exactly - very little and for most of the population the first world war is already ancient history of which many have only have a murky recollection, no more relevant to their lives than the Battle of Hastings or the Armada.
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>> Exactly - very little and for most of the population the first world war is ancient history.
And yet it hasnt gone anywhere in the last 10 20 or 30 years. It's in the media as much now as at any point. Why is that?
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>> Exactly - very little and for most of the population the first world war is
>> already ancient history of which many have only have a murky recollection, no more relevant
>> to their lives than the Battle of Hastings or the Armada.
>>
I beg to differ. The fact that the vast majority of people of the WW1 generation were literate and often recorded their own experiences for posterity sets it apart from your two examples quoted, as does the ready availability of both still and motion pictures, and sound archive from the survivors.
Furthermore, I'd suggest that whilst the actual war itself may not be relevant to their present-day lives, the outcome of same is and will remain so for many years to come. We should not let them forget, nor seek to airbrush its lessons from history.
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>> About as much a 13 year old knew about WW1 10, 20, 30 years ago
>> i would imagine.
Go back another 10 though and 1973's thirteen y.o. might have had grandparents in the trenches. Mrs B's Grandfather was, so were a couple of Great Uncles of mine.
The last of my fellow workers who'd fought in WW2 retired in the mid eighties. When folks of that generation got together 'what did you do in the war' was a pretty standard conversational piece. My maternal Uncle trained as a pilot in Canada from 43-45 and flew Avro Yorks to the far east from 45 to 47. Once, c1980, I joined him and one of his colleagues (worked for BT) for a pie and a pint in London - they talked of nothing but war time recollections.
Nevil Shute's novel Requiem for a Wren, albeit tragic, is partly predicated on idea of the war as the experience of a lifetime for a generation. He wasn't wrong...
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Nevil Shute's novel Requiem for a Wren, albeit tragic, is partly predicated on idea of the war as the experience of a lifetime for a generation. He wasn't wrong...
Funnily enough this is on my "to read" bookshelf and survived a sort out last Sunday.
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>> Funnily enough this is on my "to read" bookshelf and survived a sort out last
>> Sunday.
Shute is one of my favourite authors. His early crime/espionage stuff (Marazan, So Disdained) is quite good as such yarns go. It's fascinating how he develops as a writer through Ruined City and his wartime romances like Landfall and Pastoral to the more involved In the Wet and (Mrs B's favourite) The Rainbow and the Rose.
His politics though - as expressed in (eg) In the Wet and The Far Country grate a bit!!
Autobiography Slide Rule and biography Parallel Motion by John Anderson are worth a read too if you regad yourself as a 'Shutist' - www.nevilshute.org/
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Either of mine could give you a very respectable summary.
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WW1 is still covered in most schools, it did, after all, shaped europe as we know it now.
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The poppy day activities are designed to honour any soldier who has fallen in the service of the UK. So although I'm quite upfront about not supporting the politicians who decided to risk our soldiers in more recent campaigns, the soldiers themselves have my utmost respect.
So from my point of view, I carry on donating and would try and get others to do it as well.
www.slidingpillar.co.uk/remember.htm
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I always give, and usually more than once since I lose the damn poppies so quickly.
However, seemingly the Thought Police in the UK would revile me for walking around [hushed voice] without wearing a poppy.
They need to FRO. Its a private matter and not subject to the approval, or otherwise, of anyone else.
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>> I always give, and usually more than once since I lose the damn poppies so
>> quickly.
>>
>> However, seemingly the Thought Police in the UK would revile me for walking around [hushed
>> voice] without wearing a poppy.
>>
>> They need to FRO. Its a private matter and not subject to the approval, or
>> otherwise, of anyone else.
Pretty much my stance.
The poppy appeal is one of the few charities I always dip my hand in my pocket for.
I used to try to get a poppy to stay on my clothing, but don't bother now.
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>> Perhaps when the last veteran of the Second World War dies remembrance day should be
>> scaled down and the world wars allowed to slip quietly into history with all the
>> other wars of the past.
The main point is remembrance to reduce the chance of such horrors being repeated - so scaling down, diminishing, forgetting, is at odds with that.
I think it is accepted and understood that it is now a tribute to and remembrance of all fallen servicemen not just those killed in a particular conflict.
I have no problem with the small enamelled poppies; I usually lose the paper ones within an hour or two. The boss got a big plastic one for her car that I have just attached.
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I have enamel. One in the van unopened from 2013. Why I'll never know/remember. One from 2013 (yes) attached to my shooting hat. Another from 2014 pinned to another bit of outdoors clothing. When I tried to buy last years (2014) there were only 2013 dated items in the local BL box? A friendly Barmaid picked a 2014 up for me from an adjacent town.
Anyway, I support. I never want to forget. As for today's 20 year old's, Pah! Germany in a freezing Lancaster, no chance. Keyboard perfect innit.
M.
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I contribute to various charities, Poppy appeal isn't one of them.
As far as I am aware I have no friends,, relatives etc in any of the services and even going back two or three generations I think that was the case. So no real emotional tie as such as much as I do to Cancer, Hospice, MND charities.
However , as with the ice bucket challenge, I get extremely annoyed when anyone is "forced" to donate to any charity, no matter what it is. If you want to , fair enough, if you don't then that is allowed!
The poppies on TV is just so contrived because the above is obviously the case, there is no personal opinion allowed! Either that or they make sure that everyone on TV will wear one before they are asked to go on!
Last night there was some announcement about Star Trek, think they are making a new film or something? Anyway the local program was discussing this and they had a Trekkie on it dressed from head to toe with a Star Trek outfit on.
And yes, pinned to the front, a Poppy!
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Poppy protocol - WillDeBeest
