Non-motoring > Can we really claim to be a civilized country?	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Armel Coussine	Replies: 41

Wed 8 Jun 16 18:39   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Armel Coussine

I've just heard an assertion on the box that 40% of police time is taken up by mentally ill people. Clearly as a nation we can't find the money or the brains to treat these people as they need, with much psychiatric input of an intelligent kind, instead of just dumping them on the fuzz who are a bit overworked and find mad people as annoying as the rest of us do. Alas, i can't claim not to understand it. But then I don't have the illusion that we are civilized. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 19:20   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Slidingpillar

I suspect that many of the folk who take up the 40% are not undergoing treatment/monitoring. Probably quite a few of them will function normally enough sober, but put some Tennents Super (or any other tramp juice lager) in them and a different story emerges. It's a very fine line where one forces treatment on someone, and that assumes they'd take if offered. And then of course, you have the issue of the NHS not having the facilities/money to help/deal with them. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 19:28   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Runfer D'Hills

I expect we are all on the graph somewhere. I often suspect that I am but I've got away with it so far. ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 19:46   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Dog

My ole mum used to say there were more out than in. (*_*) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 19:58   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Old Navy

Care in the community is cheaper than in patient care. There is (was) a big hospital near here for mental patients. It had small blocks of flats for the more able patients, but are now demolished along with many wards. The land has been sold off for development. What is left of the hospital cares for the the severely mentally disabled who can't be released. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 19:50   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Dutchie

What is civilization anyway.Control by law or self control.There is the devil in all of us and we choose which road to take.Mentall illness is complex some people want to be helped others not. Psychosis is something you can pick up any time in your live.Could be events or heredity. Not qualified enough just what I have seen and experienced over the years. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 20:04   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Westpig

Mental health provision has always been well underfunded. God knows what it's like nowadays with all the general cut backs. That 40% figure does seem a tad high, although the waste of police resources because no one else can deal has been a big, big problem for decades. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 20:14   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - WillDeBeest

Lygo can probably confirm there's a similar situation with GPs and the socially deprived - mentally ill or not. (Confirm because that's what my Sis-in-L, who is one, tells me.) The resources that should help them - social workers, housing officers - are easy targets for cuts (and for sneering rightwingers) and the doctors, like the police, are expensive resources left to pick up the pieces. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 20:18   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Westpig

>> (and for sneering rightwingers) You need 'sneering rightwingers' to counteract the Vivian Nicholson's of the Left. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 8 Jun 16 21:32   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Bromptonaut

>> You need 'sneering rightwingers' to counteract the Vivian Nicholson's of the Left. Mrs Nicholson's what? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 22:15   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Westpig

>> Mrs Nicholson's what? >> tinyurl.com/zyyk2eb Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 22:21   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - No FM2R

www.englishbaby.com/lessons/grammar/plural_vs_possessive_s Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 08:45   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Westpig

>> www.englishbaby.com/lessons/grammar/plural_vs_possessive_s >> I've read that..and still don't know. What should it have been?.... I'm guessing it should have been no apostrophe at all? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 08:55   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Focusless

Possession - "the copper's truncheon" (only one copper) or "the coppers' truncheons" (multiple coppers). Plural - "the coppers had truncheons". Exception - "the dog lost its way" - possessive, but "it's" is only an abbreviation for "it is", a mistake Bromp has made a few times IIRC :) EDIT: ok took a while to find one but www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=22489&m=499278 Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 9 Jun 16 at 08:59 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 09:19   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Focusless

...and sorry, yes, should have been no apostrophe because it was plural not possession. "...the Left's Viv Nicholsons" Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 9 Jun 16 at 09:20 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 21:08   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Cliff Pope

>> ...and sorry, yes, should have been no apostrophe because it was plural not possession. >> >> "...the Left's Viv Nicholsons" >> True, but you need to know that the surname is Nicholson and there are several of them, rather than only one called Nicholsons. Look at the knots people get tied up in over Jones, Joneses, Jones' house, Joneses' house. Or Chambers Dictionary. There were two brothers called Chambers. So the dictionary ought really to be Chamberses' Dictionary, not just Chambers. In the early days of a bank there was sometimes one partner, called Lloyd, and sometimes two. So the name had to be changed from Lloyd's Bank to Lloyds' Bank. In the end they got tired of repainting the signs so just called it Lloyds Bank. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 22:33   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Westpig

>> True, but you need to know that the surname is Nicholson and there are several >> of them, rather than only one called Nicholsons. Oh hell... does that mean I was right all along? I thought I'd managed to get my head around it. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 10:12   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Manatee

Its - sorry - it's one of the simplest rules of grammar. Not too much trouble for anybody to learn, especially one whose job involves lots of writing. Every time the mistake is repeated, a reader somewhere rolls his or her eyes. Similarly with "who's", commonly seen as a possessive. Rule - if you don't mean "who is", then you should be using "whose". Grammar is really, really complicated and difficult and I am hopeless at it. Fortunately, one can get 99% of it right by knowing about 1% of the rules. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 10:41   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Bromptonaut

I fully understand it's/its. Errors are down to sloppy work with keyboard and proofing as a look/say reader. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 07:36   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Bromptonaut

>> >> Mrs Nicholson's what? >> >> >> tinyurl.com/zyyk2eb I was born and raised in Yorkshire and know full well who Viv Nicholson was. She was on Look North from time to time long after her national fame had died. Struggling to understand he relevance to this debate. Except perhaps for a morality tale about the 'deserving' poor/sick. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 08:41   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Westpig

>> I was born and raised in Yorkshire and know full well who Viv Nicholson was. >> She was on Look North from time to time long after her national fame had >> died. >> >> Struggling to understand he relevance to this debate. The Left's propensity to 'spend, spend, spend'. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 20:18   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Haywain

"and for sneering rightwingers" Oh dear, Will, you have got it bad. Do you have nightmares? Reply to this message | Report message       3

Wed 8 Jun 16 20:42   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - WillDeBeest

If a cap fitting made a sound, I think I'd be hearing it. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Wed 8 Jun 16 21:15   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Haywain

"If a cap fitting made a sound, I think I'd be hearing it." Have you had your hearing checked lately? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 21:23   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - WillDeBeest

I can still detect a dog whistle. Can you? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 21:40   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Slidingpillar

If that is true, either they have ropey dog whistles where you are, or you've had a sex change and are a 12 year old girl... :o) Even then, the normal frequency of dog whistles is 22 to 24kHz and humans that can hear that high are almost unheard of. For a male over 50 to hear over 14kHz is unusual to say the least Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 21:57   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - WillDeBeest

For a male over 50 to hear over 14kHz is unusual to say the least. You don't have to be over 50 to contribute here, Slidey - although I imagine it would help. I am over 12, though - which gives me the strength to pull HW's chain. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 8 Jun 16 22:01   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Haywain

"I am over 12, though" But less than 30? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 22:19   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Dog

>> For a male over 50 to hear over 14kHz is unusual to say the least Me and the ole woman (both 63) can hear up to 19 kHz: www.youtube.com/watch?v=00y198cE-IU Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 22:26   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Runfer D'Hills

Interesting, I got to 19 too on that. But I'm much younger than you... ( by 6 years anyway ) ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 22:35   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Dog

Be interesting to 'hear' what others hear - What's the betting everyone can hear up to 19kHz (except Sp) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 22:42   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Dog

This'll give you tinnitus, if you don't suffer from it already :) www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-iCZElJ8m0 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 00:18   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Manatee

I don't know what you listened to it on, but on my PC those tones were at nothing like the frequencies shown. I could sing most of them. And sometimes the pitch went down when the "frequency" went up. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 07:17   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Dog

I listened to them through a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze B2's via a Yamaha CRX-550. I still couldn't hear anything above approximately 19kHz. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 21:44   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Haywain

"I can still detect a dog whistle. Can you?" I doubt it after standing next to my mate's Trace Elliott bass rig for 15 years. I can hear the rustle of a cap though as I squeeze it under my halo. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 8 Jun 16 22:32   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - R.P.

I see a lot of this on my work. either victims or offenders or both suffering mental health problems lots of it brought on by substance mis-use. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 8 Jun 16 22:46   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - Harleyman

lots of it brought on by substance mis-use. >> None of which can be realistically blamed on a lack of education; and therein lies the problem. I regret to say that I have little sympathy for nor empathy with those who try to justify their bad behaviour by blaming it on the influence of something they did knowingly and willingly, having been well educated on the pitfalls involved both at school and (hopefully) at home. It might have washed forty years ago when most folk knew nothing of the dangers of substance abuse; it does not wash now. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 9 Jun 16 01:31   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - zippy

Friend of a friend has a child in The Priory Clinic. Sectioned for life as she is a danger to herself (not to others). Apparently she is lucky, her parents only have a six hour round trip to see her each weekend! Her last place actually gave her suicide kit back to her and she was found just in time. Staff weren't trained, didn't care or were just complicit in helping the authorities try to get rid of one more patient! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 08:02   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - CGNorwich

The Priory is a a very expesive private hospital treating mild to moderate mental health issues particularly addictions. There is no such thing as being "Sectioned for life' Perhaps it all became a bit garbled in transmission from your "friend of a friend". Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 10:38   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - devonite

In reply to the thread title, I think we are compared to other Countries, Pakistan for example. Terrible how folk can do this type of thing to their own Kids! www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36486974 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 11:08   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - WillDeBeest

Don't assume that couldn't happen here, Dev. Man-made dogmas drive people to bizarre and appalling extremes in all sorts of places. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 9 Jun 16 11:13   Can we really claim to be a civilized country? - devonite

It has happened here, but usually as one-off's, but 1100 women in the last twelve months is on a different scale. Reply to this message | Report message