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On-going Debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 16 Jun 16 at 10:38
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So when did Boris make this video?
www.facebook.com/EvolvePolitics/videos/1699732976945309/
Boris Johnson made a video campaigning for Turkey to join the EU - he said it would be a "great moment". Funny how he's now trying to scare people about the number of potential Turkish migrants to Britain. The only number BoJo cares about is Number 10.
How can anyone accept his judgement on anything?
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Sat 11 Jun 16 at 19:51
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Boris Johnson has my vote.
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>> Boris Johnson has my vote.
>>
I rest my case.
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There's been a lot of stuff going on in the air today. RR Merlins doing their thing.
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>> There's been a lot of stuff going on in the air today. RR Merlins doing
>> their thing.
>>
A Spitfire flew right over the house just as I popped out to the car today. Even if you've seen them plenty of times they are a well worth a look up.
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Sounded as if they were doing loops.
They got a bit slow at the top I noticed. Giving the old motors an easy time one would hope.
They went on for a long time.
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Might well have been doing some stuff your way to tie into the queen's flypast. They often kill two birds with one stone.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 11 Jun 16 at 21:12
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The only number BoJo Cameron cares about is Number 10.
How can anyone accept his judgement on anything?
(Fixed it for you).
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Something to consider for all those who insist the Ever Closer Union train is unstoppable. It may already have stopped. (Article in Saturday's FT by Timothy Garton Ash)
app.ft.com/cms/s/7f7c29d6-2e57-11e6-bf8d-26294ad519fc.html
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Sun 12 Jun 16 at 10:33
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>> How many EU migrant workers are, or will become, a burden?
I agree with your point, mostly.
However, should 'out' win, I'd be happier with an immigration system that vets who wants to come here, let's in those we decide to and doesn't the rest...
.. and if we decide that it's not an acceptable practice to pay child allowance to people from abroad whose children do not reside here... we'll get our elected politicians to change our laws and stop doing it.
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Good grief: our local Labour M.P. John Mann has come out in favour of leave!
His constituency office has a Vote Leave poster up, too.
At our street stall for Leave on Saturday, several known Labour District councillors came up to say they are voting Leave.
John Mann has an iron grip on our local Labour party and local council, but he is a professional politician who is generally looking out for No. 1. Does he see writing on the wall for a Brexit and has he come off the fence because of conviction, or ambition, I wonder?
I would like to think conviction and we are grateful for support however motivated!
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According to some here it will be because he is a mentally ill racist.
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...mentally ill racist.
Feeling a touch of paranoia, RR?
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The mood of the country is for voting out.This is the politicians own fault who have lost touch with ordinary folk.
Maybe if Britain votes for out it will shake up the rest of Europe and different alliances will be formed.But I like to see the overbearing American influence in the UK also go.
We are not their spare Aircraft Carrier are we?
I hope the vote is either decisive one way or the other.
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The mood of the country is to vote out.
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>> However, should 'out' win, I'd be happier with an immigration system that vets who wants
>> to come here, let's in those we decide to and doesn't the rest...
Isn't there a contradiction there? The out case makes a big thing out of how EU red tape is tying up business (albeit they tend go go umm errr when asked to be specific). But they want to impose considerable lengths of red tape on businesses that need to recruit labour from abroad?
>> .. and if we decide that it's not an acceptable practice to pay child allowance
>> to people from abroad whose children do not reside here... we'll get our elected politicians
>> to change our laws and stop doing it.
So they bring their children here. Win Win.
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>> Isn't there a contradiction there?
Nope, none at all.
The out case makes a big thing out of how
>> EU red tape is tying up business (albeit they tend go go umm errr when
>> asked to be specific). But they want to impose considerable lengths of red tape on
>> businesses that need to recruit labour from abroad?
It's a matter of which is more important.... great big holes in our borders for all and sundry to stroll through regardless of how they can support themselves... versus... some sort of system that could easily be set up, so that if you were offered a meaningful job that would be looked favourably on for a work visa.
That's what my mate did to get to live and work in the US... and ditto the one that does the same in Australia.
>> So they bring their children here. Win Win.
How would too many people living in an existing house/flat be considered a win win if they also piled their kids into that set up instead of leaving them with relatives?
>>
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Future taxpayers, WP. I've just looked at my tax report for 2014-15. Looks like the top three items alone - including state pensions but not education - cost me £15,000. We're not producing enough home-grown taxpayers to fund those who will become dependent on the state in later life, so where else is the next generation of workers going to come from?
Incidentally, our EU contribution is at the bottom of the list: £155.
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>> >> We're not producing enough home-grown taxpayers to fund those who will become dependent on the
>> state in later life, so where else is the next generation of workers going to
>> come from?
>>
>>
And what do we do when those new arrivals reach the age when they become dependent on the state themselves, import even more to support them and so on and so on?
Fine if you want to turn the whole country into a concrete jungle full of high rises, not otherwise. As regards to pensions, we have to accept we are living a lot longer and staying healthier for a greater proportion of that time so the qualifying age will have to rise to reflect that.
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The deficit of workers and the surplus of pensioners exists now, RR. Do you have a better idea for overcoming it?
And yes, if we keeping draining the workforce faster than we replenish it, we'll face the same problem in future generations. But we'll at least have time to plan - and work - for that.
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Nope, none at all.
>>
>> The out case makes a big thing out of how EU red tape is tying up business (albeit they tend go go umm errr when asked to be specific). But they want to impose considerable lengths of red tape
>> on businesses that need to recruit labour from abroad?
>>
>> It's a matter of which is more important.... great big holes in our borders for
>> all and sundry to stroll through regardless of how they can support themselves... versus... some
>> sort of system that could easily be set up, so that if you were offered
>> a meaningful job that would be looked favourably on for a work visa.
Surely more checks = more red tape? I can see pros and cons to both systems. But you can't have both ease of access for workers and at the same time more checks to make sure they aren't criminals, fake job offers, chancers etc?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 12 Jun 16 at 18:55
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>>if we decide that it's not an acceptable practice to pay child allowance to people from abroad whose children do not reside here...
I must admit, I used to think that was wrong... but...
...remember whoever comes here to work has been brought up and educated by another country, at no cost to the UK....
..also a child in a UK state school costs £100/wk - one growing up in Poland costing £13/wk child benefit is a large saving to the UK I imagine.
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>> child benefit is a large saving to the UK I imagine.
>>
There'd be even more of a saving if we didn't pay it at all for children abroad.
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Why pay child benefit in the first place? You want children you pay for them.
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Its pretty part of most countries welfare spending in the west anyway. Once you open that door, where do you stop, you want a retirement you pay for it, you want your child to be educated you pay for it?
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>>Why pay child benefit in the first place? You want children you pay for them
Because Japan and Germany are showing the rest of the world what happens when the average number of children per family drops below 2.
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You want children you pay for them.
Not quite. We have children, they pay for you.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Sun 12 Jun 16 at 22:52
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>> Not quite. We have children, they pay for you.
>>
Effectively of course that's what happens in the UK. All these folk who witter on about paying for THEIR old age via their NI contributions fail to recognise that it's their kids and grandkids who'll be stumping up for their care homes and Zimmer frames, because of how the system was set up in about 1906.
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And look at the conditions in some care homes.You better off kicking the bucket before entering a carehome.
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Well that's technically true but what of course is also true is that they in turn spent their working lives paying for the previous generations pensions and welfare.
The system is a sort of inter-generational contract.
What should also not be forgotten is that pensioners also pay income tax although they are exempt for NI contributions
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Yep I still pay income tax on my pension.It never ends paying tax does it.
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>> Yep I still pay income tax on my pension.It never ends paying tax does it.
>>
Be glad you earn enough to pay tax
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The Remain side are starting to panic.
I think it will be 55% Vote Leave and 45% to Remain.
If I was a betting man I would put £10 on Vote Leave.
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>> If I was a betting man I would put £10 on Vote Leave.
I am one, sometimes, and I quite fancy a punt on Stay being an optimistic sort of cat.
The odds will be carp though. You'd have to be a full-time punter. Even then it wouldn't be worth the effort of tottering down to the place.
I used to know a constant punter in Bath. What a weird cat he was. But knowing him earned me a good few quids.
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>> I used to know a constant punter in Bath. What a weird cat he was. But knowing him earned me a good few quids.
Mr Peters put bets on for me which sometimes won since he gave me tips as well.
A stopgap waitering job between one thing and another.
My colleagues were a London tough guy called George and a soppy old local chick, very nice, whose name I forget.
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4/9 Remain
7/4. Leave
Punters don't seem to believe the opinion polls.
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>>>>
>> Punters don't seem to believe the opinion polls.
>>
How many rich punters do you know?
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A poem for Mr Cameron - Anon
I don’t care if you say
My vote could cause World War 3
A plague… recession
Or global dysentery
I have no fears
Of predictions from the IMF
Of permanent recession
Pestilence or death
I don’t want Obama
Telling us what to do
With bullying threats
Of the “back of the queueâ€
I dislike officials lying, saying
'We’re too weak on our own'
The world’s Britain’s oyster
We’ll never walk alone
I’m proud of the achievements
Of my country of birth
Freedoms and democracy
All of priceless worth
A thousand years of freedom
You ask me to forgo
For some unelected EU bureaucrats
And their precious failed Euro
I love Europeans
Their food and music too
But I also love Jamaican reggae
Or a spicy vindaloo
For all Europe’s many wonders
It’s the world which beckons me
And I see a global future
For Britain’s destiny
So Mr Cameron should you read this
I care not for your warning
I see a bright new future
As a great new day is dawning
Hope, optimism and confidence
In this I do believe
And so on the upcoming June the 23rd
I WILL VOTE TO LEAVE
(Found on Facebook)
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>> How many rich punters do you know?
Or poor bookmakers.....
With no point to make, I think this is an interesting read....
www.artofmanliness.com/2009/06/03/so-you-want-my-job-professional-gambler/
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>> 4/9 Remain
>>
>> 7/4. Leave
>> Punters don't seem to believe the opinion polls.
>>
I think the odds of a leave vote have shortened by a fair bit and lengthened for remain. So there is movement that way.
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Indeed there is but it is interesting that the the odds still very much favour Remain when compared to some of the latest opinion polls. The betting market is normally a pretty good indicator of results in elections and it is interesting to speculate what is going on here.
There is clearly a difference between what people are saying to pollsters and how betting people think others will actually vote .
Effectively the belief is that the voters are protesting when they know it doesn't matter but will actually vote Remain based on the widely publicised economic factors and self interest. The punters are prepared to lay out money on this view which gives it some weight.
Whether this is true or or not who knows? Time will tell.
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>> Indeed there is but it is interesting that the the odds still very much favour
>> Remain when compared to some of the latest opinion polls. The betting market is normally
>> a pretty good indicator of results in elections and it is interesting to speculate what is going on here.
Interesting that the odds shifted around the same time though. Maybe there's a lag.
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>> Interesting that the odds shifted around the same time though. Maybe there's a lag.
>>
That's how betting works, bookmaker or whoever will set initial odds but very quickly the odds follow the money. As bets are placed, odds are reduced on events or outcomes people bet for and increased on events or outcomes nobody bets on.
A bit simplistic, its a bit more complicated than that but you get the picture
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I meant at the same as the polls.
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Yes, what is interesting is that those opinion polls in favour of "Leave" have not affected the betting odds to a greater degree than they have. An indication that the betting public tend not not to believe that is the way people will actually vote.
The question is of course is the betting market a better indicator of the result than the opinion polls? Who knows? It was at the General Election though.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Jun 16 at 10:16
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>> The question is of course is the betting market a better indicator of the
>> result than the opinion polls? Who knows? It was at the General Election though.
>>
The betting market is an indicator of where people have put their money rather than their mouth.
I guess philosophically, the polls are an indicator of what people want to happen, the betting is an indicator of what people think will happen.
Which is a better indicator or predictor of the result, who knows.
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>> Yes, what is interesting is that those opinion polls in favour of "Leave" have not
>> affected the betting odds to a greater degree than they have. An indication that the
>> betting public tend not not to believe that is the way people will actually vote.
It could be, but the odds reflect the total amount waged, whereas each poll is starting from scratch.
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This smells just like the Jockanese referendum. Opinion polls started showing for Yes about this time too. It wouldn't surprise me that it is a ruse to ensure those on the Remain side in this case are properly motivated to vote, if they think there's a chance of Leave winning.
If I had to bet on it, I'd back Remain. 55-45ish.
Depressing that it's even remotely close, though.
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>> 4/9 Remain
>>
>> 7/4. Leave
>>
Just had a quick look this morning; Leave is down 5/4 and remain is 4/7.
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Ex UKIP and politically incorrect, he may be, but Godders has some interesting points to make!
goldandliberty.com/libertarian-thoughts/global-gold-talks-godfrey-bloom/
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Jun 16 at 10:16
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You are quoting an interview with a man who forecast in the 1990s that the Euro would collapse within 10 years. (his words, not mine)
Twenty years later and it - the euro - is still here.
I think you are very brave.
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A clear example of wishing something to be true does not make it so.
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 14 Jun 16 at 13:31
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>> You are quoting an interview with a man who forecast in the 1990s that the
>> Euro would collapse within 10 years. (his words, not mine)
>>
>> Twenty years later and it - the euro - is still here.
>>
>> I think you are very brave.
>>
Still here, but in intensive care.
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With sterling predicted to crash by 30% if Brexit occurs, now is the time to buy Euro!
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>> With sterling predicted to crash by 30% if Brexit occurs, now is the time to
>> buy Euro!
>>
Bought mine for my Dutch/French trip; got 1.25 exchange rate when I ordered on Sunday, down to 1.22 tonight so I'm 10 Euro's to the good.
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Bought mine online yesterday @1.228. Collecting airside at LBA Thursday AM. Mind you when I was in LC (Tenerife) Dec'15 a pint was 99c, increasing to €1.50 pint after 7pm if memory serves me correctly.
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Stock market has a severe case of the jitters today and has fallen heavily for third day running.
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Hedgies will be cock-a-hoop, looking forward to creaming it off after the recovery which will follow a Remain vote.
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This is an urgent plea for humanitarian aid. Millions of desperate UK citizens are trapped on a sinking vessel just off the coast of Britain.
The sinking vessel has been named as the EU. A spokesperson for the millions said, this is a direct appeal to the people of the UK to help their countrymen.
Our only hope of being saved and not going down with the EU, is if Britain votes out on the 23rd June, this is our last chance.
The man who used to be the British PM has quit that job and has now become an EU crew member, and he is threatening and bullying us to try to make sure we sink with the EU when it goes down, he has even said he will financially penalise elderly citizens pensions if they do not stay on board and sink with the EU.
Please help free us from this tyranny and vote leave on the 23rd, you are our only hope.
Thank you.
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Found this on Faceache this morning, how much is true I'm not qualified to say! - but I know some of you will be:
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
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Certainly a terrible account but not the way I think Ambo meant. It seems to have taken a list of businesses that have transferred manufacturing out of the UK, adds the phrase 'EU grant' and stuck it up as fact for europhobes to lap up. The factory moves themselves may be real - the Cadbury one is - but if you can find a source for the EU angle that doesn't refer back to this unreferenced list, you're doing better than (an admittedly quick) Google could for me.
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I agree, it is a terrible account, whether the E.U Grant bit is stuck-on or not, it still reads like we are in the business of exporting businesses rather than the Goods.
There must be a valid reason why these businesses have deserted the U.K, something the Government seems not to have done anything to rectify perhaps?
Last edited by: devonite on Wed 15 Jun 16 at 11:46
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but if
>> you can find a source for the EU angle that doesn't refer back to this
>> unreferenced list, you're doing better than (an admittedly quick) Google could for me.
>>
Is this the sort of thing you were looking for wdb?
www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10020273.Ford_s___80m_EU_loan_to_boost_Turkey_factory___and_close_ours/
www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/09/row-over-eu-loan-twinings-factory
not sure how much use they are?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 15 Jun 16 at 12:48
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Another commentary from Woodford Investment Management, this one from the man himself.
goo.gl/4KTreL
Two main points -
- WIM "...could not construct a convincing long term economic argument that supported either ‘remain’ or ‘leave"
- there are more serious risks to worry about, including "..excessive government and consumer debt (excessive corporate debt in China); excess capacity and deflation; rapidly ageing demographics; very weak productivity growth; and a lack of investment...unfunded retirement commitments ... inadequate savings, wealth inequality, the rise of political populism, and...the challenges posed by the scale of the Chinese credit bubble and the implications of its rapid deflation."
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Woodford's view is famously long term, which is a good thing for an investor. But his view is a global one on the corporate sector as a whole, which will undoubtedly recover to a great extent from the immediate damage a Leave vote will cause. He may think he and his investors will come out about even; that's not the same as saying the British economy and working Brits will be as fortunate.
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>> Woodford's view is famously long term, which is a good thing for an investor. But
>> his view is a global one on the corporate sector as a whole, which will
>> undoubtedly recover to a great extent from the immediate damage a Leave vote will cause.
>> He may think he and his investors will come out about even; that's not the
>> same as saying the British economy and working Brits will be as fortunate.
Quite.
But he does say that they could not construct a "convincing long term economic argument that supported either remain or leave".
Then he says
"To be clear, I am not saying that there wouldn’t be more uncertainty in the short term associated with a ‘leave’ result. Clearly, from a UK and arguably European perspective, such an outcome would be destabilising for investors and for governments across Europe and this would take time to dissipate."
and
"Of course the likely coincident fall in sterling (especially against the US dollar) would provide some mitigation but in the short term this uncertainty would weigh on us all."
For what it's worth, I am still of the mind that in the medium and longer term, leave will have more opportunities for us than in.
UK is a net contributor in cash terms to the EU, a consequence of being one of its more productive members. There is no doubt in my mind that low-skilled wages are kept lower by the large number of EU workers from countries in which the wages they can send home, even on a UK minimum wage, are a multiple of what they could earn at home. Whilst this economic migration might (I use the word advisedly) be good for GDP, GDP per capita cannot increase in proportion when the population is growing at the same time by 300,000 per year, roughly 180,000 of which is from the EU.
I am prepared to believe that some of the trading arrangements we will end up with will individually be 'worse' than those agreed now at EU level, but freedom of action, the value of which has IMO been ignored for the most part, will create opportunities to make different trade-offs tailored to the UK, not the EU as a whole. And a 3% tariff on UK imports to the EU for example is not in itself going to create a barrier to exports if sterling is 10% lower.
On the downside, we have been told that house prices may fall by 18% (a remarkably precise number, like many others that have been mooted). That will happen if foreign investors who are currently using UK property as a piggy bank no longer see that bank as safe and cause a run on it. Some might think that is a good thing, but it will I expect create problems for our banks which, as they do, have been overlending and have partly fuelled the price inflation for their own profit. We may see a credit crunch which will hurt us.
Nevertheless, and despite my feeling that the eurozone and the EU are heading for very stormy waters and this may not be the right time to leave, I have decided to vote leave and I have just done so by post. The house price crash if it happens is a problem that will hit at some point anyway, and a soft landing seems unlikely - our first loss may be preferable to the one that would occur after a further substantial rise.
I am not anti Europe in any way. I am not anti-immigration, although I do think that the UK should be able to decide on the number and qualifications of incoming migrants. Just as poor northerners like me flood to the south east of England, we can expect a steady flow of migration from the less productive countries of Europe if we stay in. As the eurozone implodes, that flow will only increase and we are already seeing an increasing number from Spain and Portugal neither of which has any realistic hope if being able to dig itself out of economic disaster in the forseeable future.
I believe that the present weakening of democracy is wrong - unless and until we are part of a federal Europe, which seems increasingly unlikely even if we stay in then it is simply wrong for laws to be imposed by a government that the UK electorate can not chuck out.
I don't believe the claim that this is a once only decision, or that there is no going back, ever. The one thing we can be sure of is that politicians of all stripes here or in the EU will do whatever is most convenient at the time.
Incidentally, there has been some terrific stuff on radio 4 this week. There are still two more special editions of 'More or Less' to come at 12.04 tomorrow and Friday for example, that have looked at some of the numerical claims that have been made by both sides.
One amusing analysis by a psychologist yesterday concluded that if you want to argue for the status quo, then fear is the way to go. On the other hand, if you want to get support for change, then you need to make people angry rather than fearful. That is exactly what we have seen from Remain and Leave.
Anyway the die is cast as far as I am concerned, and my vote has been cancelled out by the boss, so together we will not influence the result at all!
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Thumb from me, Manatee. I'm disappointed with your choice but I appreciate the trouble you've gone to to show your working, especially since you seem to be about the only Out voter here (not even going to call you an Outie) who is motivated by a genuine wish to improve things rather than by incoherent fury at the iniquities of Brussels.
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Comment appreciated WdB.
Difficult to be 'happy' with either choice on offer. I think most of us would probably design something different if we could.
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>>especially since you seem to be about the only
>> Out voter here (not even going to call you an Outie) who is motivated by
>> a genuine wish to improve things rather than by incoherent fury at the iniquities of
>> Brussels.
>>
It might surprise you to know that the "Xenophobes", "Nutjobs", "Fruitcakes", and "Racists" on the forum are also motivated by a genuine desire to improve things, even though we haven't expressed it as eloquently as Manatee (Neither have the Remains with their case, come to that).
You'll have to live with the fact that not everyone sees things the same as you do.
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"That will happen if foreign investors who are currently using UK property as a piggy bank no longer see that bank as safe and cause a run on it."
Do foreign investors borrow from UK banks to buy UK property?
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I think with the Chinese and Russians it's usually cash.
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>> I think with the Chinese and Russians it's usually cash.
Doubt any of these investors borrow. There's also a suspicion that a proportion of the cash is ill-gotten and/or being laundered.
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Its made up, as common sense ought to dictate. I know for a fact about two of them that there was no EU money involved, I am quite sure the same is in all cases.
Its a bit of a rant written by an ill-educated nutter.
However, what is the point of the note? That the EU has paid people to move away from the UK but that it will stop doing it when we are not part of the EU?
Yet again, a bunch of drivel written without basis in fact for the edification of the idiotic and dense. A depressing approach, whichever side it comes from.
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According to Google News, Osbourne is now planning what has been described as a "Punishment Budget" if we vote Leave.
Seems the "In" campaign has reached a new Low!
news.google.co.uk/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ei=qFeBVbXLCOei7AahlIMY&ved=0CAUQqS4oBQ
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Described so by whom? And if we really do end up £30bn short because a band of blowhards want to wave two fingers at 'Brussels', where do said blowhards suggest we should get the money from?
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I guess all those factory transfers explains why UK unemployment has skyrocketed in the past 10 years.
Oh hang on....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36536432
And what NoFM2R says.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 15 Jun 16 at 12:50
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There was someone on the news last night (just someone on the street) giving one of his reasons why he'll vote to leave the EU. Straight bananas... That is a good argument and is more important than so many other factors. :-)
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As soon as we leave the EU we will all be rich, just like Scotland would have been if they'd left the UK.
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Well... 100% of not-a-lot is probably more than 10% of slightly-more ;-)
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>> Described so by whom? And if we really do end up £30bn short because a
>> band of blowhards want to wave two fingers at 'Brussels', where do said blowhards suggest
>> we should get the money from?
>>
Every time Cameron or Osborne comes out with a speculative guess like that it hardens the resolve of the leave camp and drives more people towards it.
On another note, it is widely supposed that the young will vote to remain. That is not the case with those I've spoken to or the ones I've heard interviewed on various media. They are just as split as the rest of us, with working class youngsters in particular being worried about pressure on jobs and housing from EU migrants.
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I reckon that when we vote to leave the sclerotic European dictatorship next week, Jupiter will collide with Mars.
But until then have a listen to this bunch of scousers making a noise over in Bulgaria wiv the Plovdiv Philharmonic Orchestra.
I got another letter yesterday addressed to a Mr Ceausescu living in the caravans I told thee about, turns out they work at a nearby Tulip meats factory and the letter contains their wage slip. Cheeky so-and-so's giving my address, no 'arm done though, so I wont chicken curry about it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=li_xjPIDBSo
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>> On another note, it is widely supposed that the young will vote to remain. That is not the case with those I've spoken to or the ones I've heard interviewed on various media. They are just as split as the rest of us, with working class youngsters in particular being worried about pressure on jobs and housing from EU migrants.
Same with my experience. The young people are very much split.
A lot of them are worried about their job prospect due to extra competition from EU migrants and being worried for priced out of housing market.
Those who are remain side are probably made to believe that immigration is good for economy.
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So far ----The Sun is for out.
----The Spectator is for out.
( blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/world-spectator-backs-brexit/ )
----The Express is (probably, as not formally declared) for out.
Last edited by: Roger. on Wed 15 Jun 16 at 16:23
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I am struck by what a reasonable mature bunch of cats we seem judging by posts here.
Can't be right though. Our complex nexus of bigotries cancels itself out, something more like that.
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Geldof to Farage in a confrontation on the river...
"Addressing Mr Farage over a PA system as his boat, the Sarpedon, pulled alongside the boat carrying the UKIP leader, Mr Geldof called Mr Farage a "fraud".
"Here are the facts about fishing. One, Britain makes more money than any other country in Europe from fishing. Two, Britain has the second largest quota for fish in Europe after Denmark. Three, Britain has the third largest landings. Four, you are no fisherman's friend.
"You were on the European Parliament Fishing Committee and you attended one out of 43 meetings."
The whole report here...
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36537180
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"I am struck by what a reasonable mature bunch of cats....."
Oh, I don't know, AC; the sight of Sir Bob campaigning to remain was sufficient to set the seal on my vote.
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Yes, HW. Govey, Nige, Mr Wetherspoons and, er, Roger are so much more appealing as bedfellows.
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"Yes, HW. Govey, Nige, Mr Wetherspoons and, er, Roger are so much more appealing as bedfellows"
Indeed, they are, Will.
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Blimey!
You'll notice I left Bozza off the list. He never stays in any one bed for long.
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With Farage on one boat and Geldof in the other, you'd have to say that swimming would look pretty appealing.
Nonetheless, thr stuff Geldof shouted is factually correct.
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Both my in-laws are in their mid eighties and live in Folkestone, so some might say they are one the UK front-line.
Both are voting to stay in.
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EU IN/OUT Referendum Thursday 23/06/16 - Vol 20 - sherlock47
