I have paid work two days a week with a national advice charity. My working day comprises two four hour shifts, 10-2 and 3-7, with an hour unpaid break in between.
Yesterday we had a public event, described as an 'Impact Review', held at another site 10/15 minutes walk from the office. There was a '3 line whip' on attendance and were expected to be there at least ten minutes before the start at 2-30. The event ended at or shortly after 3-30, I wasn't clock watching so not sure exactly but the C/Ex was still in full flow at 3.20.
I then had a brief chat with a volunteer colleague about her health, an eye problem affecting her ability to use a PC and then another with our Solicitor about digital courts. Not long but enough for us to say they will be brilliant for divorce, much less so for benefit tribunals. Went back to office stopping briefly at Greggs to pick up a sandwich. Again not clock watching but it must have been after 4:50 before I was in the building, never mind up on third floor with my coat off.
Expected to get my hour's break; there were no calls booked until 5pm. Around 4:20 manager walks in and tells us that since there are no calls booked for assessments we were to 'cold call' clients who need reviews booking. Bit of a stunned silence from colleagues, one of whom was on his last day. I then chipped in and asked her how our break fitted in to be told it comprised time before and after the off site meeting and a further 20 minutes ending at 4-20.
Worked under protest from 4-30 'til 5 but doing some casework catch up rather than calls as requested.
Did 5 o'clock calls then two of us went to her desk and tackled her again. No real concession but an increasingly dissembling account of how break was comprised. Seemed to take it personally 'surely you don't think I'm that sort of person, you got time off for Xmas meal' kind of thing.
Wouldn't be so bothered if I didn't regularly work during my break and after shift finish at 7pm. Even if we had gained five minutes she could have left it as quid pro quo for that.
I'll let it ride for now, unless she has a moan to the C/Ex, with whom she live, and he wants to rebuke.
But next time there's a meeting out of normal time I'll watch the clock like a hawk.
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I take it you meant you got in the office at 3.50 not 4.50?
I think you lost about 20 minutes break? Perhaps a one off i wouldn't worry too much about it. Your boss might well have been having a bad day or under pressure.
What is the manager like generally?
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Reasonable/unreasonable - it's up to you.
How much do you like the job compared with the remuneration?
If you like the money - stay.
If you hate the job - walk out.
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It's not always whether you like the job, sometimes people need the job and a replacement would be hard to fund.
But I'd let it pass, esp if I liked the job, but if it happened again I'd consider making quite a fuss/leaving, depending how much I needed the job!!
I remember one day years back we had a really gruff Director and he saw me coming into the office at about 9:30 and made a suitably rude comment. What he didn't know was that I'd been doing overtime at a customer till the early hours and strictly wasn't due in till about 11 (there was some rule of thumb about having 8 hours at home). I didn't' dare say anything to him but I did tell my immediate manager about it so it was "on the record".
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Can't remember ever taking a "lunch break" or any other kind of break come to that. Just grab a sandwich and/or a coffee on the go. Don't work set hours either mind you, I start when I have to and finish when I'm done. Some days that's a lot of hours and some it's fewer. Never really think about it. If I did, it would be quite depressing ! ;-)
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Do you drink coffee during the day? Do you ever stop and chat to a colleague about non-work stuff? Do you ever speak to your wife on the phone? Do you in fact ever do anything on-work related during work time?
Do you then deduct that time from your breaks?
Do you want to work in a +/- minutes environment??
Its swings and roundabouts. If generally the hours you actually work are reasonably fair and equitable, then get over yourself.
If they're not, then that's a different matter I guess. Quit or get it changed.
>>Worked under protest from 4-30 'til 5 but doing some casework catch up rather than calls as requested.
Now that is ridiculous. Is it some kind of sulky protest? She made me work but I did *different* work, that'll show her.
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>> Now that is ridiculous. Is it some kind of sulky protest? She made me work
>> but I did *different* work, that'll show her.
Not really. I could have carried on reading the paper in a gesture of insubordination, but that's not me. The casework catch up is stuff I usually end up doing in my own time, either coming in early or going home late. Part of it arises from the CRM system not uploading stuff from referrers as it should and having to enter data manually - something management should have dealt with
Management is normally pretty hands off, person causing problem is yesterday is spread far too thinly across projects and I often go two or three weeks without any significant input from her. Two colleagues supervise on the 'shop floor' but both were off yesterday and I was effectively covering basics of their role as well as my own job.
For the most part I love the job. Telephone interviews, structured but not scripted, for people on low incomes having problems with utility bills, an income/expenditure assessment plus professional benefit check.
Two calls per staff member every hour and even the simplest take around 15-20 mins plus write up time. Something like 35-40% are abortive, customer fails to answer or is not ready. Keeping the plates spinning means working with colleagues to support those with lengthy calls or difficult scenarios. If you have a call fail to answer/complete then you either pick up from someone who's pressed or do 'paper' assessments for clients who have completed an on line process.
It's a pretty well 100% match with my skills on (a) dealing with public and (b) technical stuff round benefits etc. I'm usually up with leaders on the progress board for calls completed.
I don't personally find it stressful but some do and a few find lack of day/day management and implicit expectations to perform demotivating.
Compared with previous jobs there's barely time for a pee and a cup of instant at the desk. Very little non work chit/chat still less time to do personal stuff like sort out car service.
It's not usually a +/- minutes environment which was probably why yesterday rankled so much. Having my unpaid time diced and sliced I could tolerate but not when half of it disappears in process. I suspect she is under pressure on this project but partly for reasons to do with her own omissions in managing referrer expectations.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 11 Mar 17 at 15:00
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> Management is normally pretty hands off, person causing problem is yesterday is spread far too thin
> For the most part I love the job.
those two being so, its probably a one off. I wouldn't worry about it.
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>> I remember one day years back we had a really gruff Director and he saw
>> me coming into the office at about 9:30 and made a suitably rude comment. What
>> he didn't know was that I'd been doing overtime at a customer till the early
>> hours and strictly wasn't due in till about 11 (there was some rule of thumb
>> about having 8 hours at home). I didn't' dare say anything to him but I
>> did tell my immediate manager about it so it was "on the record".
>>
I get similar.
I am a home worker. It is in my contract. We set team meetings in cities around the country with a start time of 11:00 AM, but I have to set off at six to get there, so three hours of my time and two of the company's. I get sarky comments and glances at watches or clocks when I get in and it hacks me off, especially when I might have been working on a presentation until midnight or didn't get home until 8pm from seeing clients 3 nights that week despite leaving home at 6:00AM.
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"Office" workers can be a particularly mean spirited and petty breed Zippy. I remember witnessing a really quite heated row over which coffee mugs were whose once ! Not an environment I could stomach for any period of time.
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>> . I remember witnessing
>> a really quite heated row over which coffee mugs were whose once ! Not an
>> environment I could stomach for any period of time.
Opening and closing windows or curtains is another perennial. As a smooth cheeked 18yo I witnessed two men age I am now (late fifties) almost come to blows over a window.
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>> Opening and closing windows or curtains is another perennial. As a smooth cheeked 18yo I
>> witnessed two men age I am now (late fifties) almost come to blows over a
>> window.
I moved into a new office and spent some considerable time getting the air-con to work. It used to wind me up when people opened windows 'for fresh air' when it was running despite me proving it drew air in from outside (through a filter). I tried to argue the point by asking if they'd drive their car with the windows open and the air-con on, 'yes' one in particular would maintain. I suppose not everyone understands physics.
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I'm a bit like a caged song-bird in our office. I'm known to wander off on occasions (statutory breaks) - I don't get paid for meal breaks, but rarely take them in full. The Supervisor is pretty cool as long as our "pot" is cleared. Some of the work can be pretty traumatic (if one was the sensitive type), so a relaxed attitude is promoted. I work better on my own than in a team - I'm the only male in the office and the eldest by a generation. CAB work was different, I was my own boss as far as possible - and it suited my free spiritedness. It's take it or leave it for me. I enjoy what I do and I might miss elements of it if I decided I'd had enough.
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I get sarky comments and glances at watches or clocks when I
>> get in and it hacks me off,
i used to get them as well, although I'm not in an office job. If i was still in past midday on a friday or midnight when I'm on nights, people use to look at the clock and say 'your still here then? ' mainly joking but a couple took it seriously, i used to laugh at them.
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Having read this it reinforces my conviction that getting out of an office job is one of the best career moves I ever made.
Even given the surveillance-intensive technology of modern lorries, it's pure freedom compared to the monkey cage of a modern office.
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I have it on good authority (SWMBO) that national charities are one of the worst employers in office / admin type work in regard to attitude, goodwill etc.
She has tried 3 over the years and says 'never again'.
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>> I have it on good authority (SWMBO) that national charities are one of the worst
>> employers in office / admin type work in regard to attitude, goodwill etc.
>>
Charities can be terrible:
This bloke was made redundant by one then forced to work for them doing his old job for just benefits - this stinks!
www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/03/dwp-benefits-electrician-work-placement-labour
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The nationally known and respected charity I work for are **** poor employers, beyond our office that is.
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>>Having read this it reinforces my conviction that getting out of an office job is one of the best career moves I ever made.
I'm with ^this geyser. although I've never worked in an orifice. I worked in a factory for 5 years back in the 1970's [whenever that was]
Lady Dog has worked in an orifice all her life and still does at age 64. She's the office manager so does the hiring and firing. Been working for present firm for 15 years so seen a lot of people come and go, especially since 2008!!
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Work ?.....Schmurk !. Best work I ever did was retiring . No-one tells me what to do...except SWM ! Took a part-time job working from home later but only'cos I liked getting out and about in the City. It wasn't for the money and there was no recrimination if I couldn't sort out any particular problem for them. Would probably still be at it if they hadn't sold out to a bigger firm who promptly got rid of all the free-lancers.
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The last time I ever worked in an office environment or 'studio' in my case was 1997. There were never any snidey, sarky remarks regarding time-keeping or bitching although I was in trouble with HR a few times. Calling a secretary 'a ginger minge', got me in a whole heap of trouble. Surely a term of endearment? The HR girl was one too.
If we were drowning in work, someone would do a chip-shop-run. Otherwise we spent lunch in the pub, opposite. For a young designer in an agency, it was a fab environment, I rarely ever took all my holiday.
I’ve been self-employed for 20 years now so I do 80-hour weeks or absolutely sweet FA and anything in between. Sometimes on-site mostly at home. But I really, deep down, miss that 9-5 routine. Perhaps I should try it again.
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I know it's me that isn't "normal" so I have to bite my tongue if I'm in that environment, but it's the just stopping, simply because it's "lunchtime" or "coffee time" or whatever, if there's loads still to do that I can't cope with. Equally, I don't cope well with anyone just lurking about until the end of the day even if they have nothing left to do. I suppose I never have been all that good with rules trumping common sense, but like I say, I recognise that its probably me that's wrong.
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>> but it's the just stopping, simply because it's "lunchtime" or "coffee
>> time" or whatever, if there's loads still to do that I can't cope with.
I'm a 'worker bee' doing 16hrs a week and getting 16 fortieths of a full time salary. In the office from 10-7 there's an hour I'm not paid for. The nature of the job is that client you phoned at 1:35 won't necessarily finish talking in 25 minutes, never mind time to for me to do record keeping. So I end up doing it during that unpaid hour. I don't resent that, it goes with dealing with people.
Clients can have my time for free. When the bosses cook the arithmetic to deprive me of it it's a different ballgame.
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That's much how the Navy worked in my day, flexible on working hours depending on the task or lack of one.
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>> That's much how the Navy worked in my day, flexible on working hours depending on
>> the task or lack of one.
>>
Nowadays there is more work than hours, every day!
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"Opening and closing windows or curtains is another perennial."
Did you ever have problems of this nature on your submarine, ON?
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>> "Opening and closing windows or curtains is another perennial."
>>
>> Did you ever have problems of this nature on your submarine, ON?
>>
Opening bunk curtains could be risky unless you were waking someone up for their watch. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 11 Mar 17 at 19:20
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I think it's the nature of the work, RDH some jobs lend themselves to breaks, some not. Not always an easy division between blue and white collar either. Some goes for working at home, utterly impossible in my job, entirely practical in others.
As for stopping at lunch when there's plenty of work on, in some roles I've done that, simply if you didn't you wouldn't get a break. And i don't mean over the day, it would swamp you cumulatively over the days and weeks. In others jobs some people seem to take a perverse pleasure in flogging themselves, imaging the world would stop if they so much as went to the toilet. No idea why.
Fatigue management is quite a thing where I work and the management are keenly aware of pushing too hard in a safety critical area.
Not criticism of anybodies choices or working practices, just my random thoughts :)
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You're not wrong Humph. I've got no qualms in taking breaks though.
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>> You're not wrong Humph. I've got no qualms in taking breaks though.
>>
Again one of the hidden benefits of lorry driving. The law compels them to be taken; admittedly it does in other disciplines too with the Working Time Directive but with tachographs there's no escaping them.
It is however frustrating when you have no option other than to take a 15 minute WTD break when you're ten minutes drive from your depot, and that means you effectively simply end up going home 20 minutes later than you would have done.
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We're all adults. If the chips are down we work through them. Pretty good give and take on both sides. Notwithstanding the office politics - which I don't get involved in really, it's not a bad place really.
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> Notwithstanding the office politics
Leaving aside consideration of the incompetent managers that allow them to arise, why does anyone get involved in office politics? When did it ever contribute to or help anything?
It never does anybody any good.
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>> Leaving aside consideration of the incompetent managers that allow them to arise, why does anyone
>> get involved in office politics? When did it ever contribute to or help anything?
>>
>> It never does anybody any good.
>>
My personal experience is that it's all too easy to be unwittingly drawn into them; especially if you're in the middle.
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>> My personal experience is that it's all too easy to be unwittingly drawn into them;
>> especially if you're in the middle.
Indeed. Worked (years ago in CS) for a manager who ran his entire career on politics. No focus on delivering service to public just what made him look good and his rivals bad. We were delivering a corporate service, the cashier function, to staff who actually dealt with (vulnerable) service users.
Was in trouble on more than one occasion for going out of my way to help deliver service rather than let my internal customers struggle or fail to deliver.
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>> Was in trouble on more than one occasion for going out of my way to
>> help deliver service rather than let my internal customers struggle or fail to deliver.
>>
I've had this argument with senior management more than once. One said to me that the company paid my wages, to which I replied that in fact the customers did. He was not best pleased.
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Clearly he was an idiot. Reverting to the phrase "the company pays your wages" just shows a total loss of control.
However, neither does the customer pay your wages. Over-riding instructions because it is better for the customer is not necessarily appropriate. The customer does not pay the wages, the company does. And if the company goes bust you don't get them. Or if the company spends too much money, the customer will get much less.
Entirely depends on the issue as to what is the right thing to do, but sometimes it is not obvious, easy or clear.
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Not dissimilar to the question, 'Does a business exist to provide goods/services or to make a profit?'
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I only ever had one pure office job. I found it extremely stressful and I could only stand it for three months. This was because there was nearly nothing to do and it required greater patience and guile to pretend to work all day (on life insurance policies) than I could summon.
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>> Not dissimilar to the question, 'Does a business exist to provide goods/services or to make
>> a profit?'
Does Mortar stick the bricks together or keep them apart? :-)
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>> Not dissimilar to the question, 'Does a business exist to provide goods/services or to make
>> a profit?'
>>
A business exists to add value to a commodity enabling it to be sold for more than it costs as a product or a service, thus providing employment for the business owner and/or others and in turn enabling them to purchase products or services from other businesses - and so the world goes around. Or it's supposed to ...
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>> However, neither does the customer pay your wages.
With all due respect, when it comes down to basics they do. Without customers a company has no income, without income it cannot pay wages.
Unless of course it's a hedge fund. ;-)
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>>when it comes down to basics they do
It sounds like a pedantic point, but its quite important, no they don't. They certainly usually provide most of the funds to a business, a certain amount of which is used for wages, but how that money is spent is nothing to do with them.
It could be in a failing or struggling business that the bank is paying your wages. What then? Or in a company growing by external investment or grant.
Customer satisfaction is important, perhaps the most important. But that importance is not related to who is paying salaries.
It can be most important to a business to do something which will be mightily annoying or dissatisfying to customers, for example.
One of the other trite phrases often trotted out by incompetent managers that annoys me is "the customer is always right".
They b***** aren't. Life would be easier if they were, but they usually aren't. The point is rather that whether or not a customer is right is not relevant, they are still the customer.
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>> is "the customer is always right".
>>
>> They b***** aren't. Life would be easier if they were, but they usually aren't. The
>> point is rather that whether or not a customer is right is not relevant, they
>> are still the customer.
>>
Reminds me of this...
"Give them the third-best to go on with; the second-best comes too late, [and] the best never comes.â€
Robert Watson-Watt deleloper of RADAR for the UK
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They certainly
>> usually provide most of the funds to a business, a certain amount of which is
>> used for wages, but how that money is spent is nothing to do with them.
>>
I never said that the customer dictated how the income was spent. I do accept that my own point is overtly simplistic but I still think it's a valid one. I do actually think you're splitting hairs with your points about banks paying wages etc, because again if there were no customers they wouldn't be doing it for long.
And I do accept that customers can be a **** nuisance; but when all's said and done the overwhelming majority of businesses would be stuffed without them.
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> I do actually think you're splitting hairs ...
Well perhaps, but I'm not meaning to. More a limitation of my explanation I think,.
Being told the company pays your wages is not justification for whatever you're being told to do, saying that the customer pays your wages is not justification for what you want to do.
As another point, the more of a nuisance one's customers are, typically the more money one can make from them.
Precisely what expensive shops aiming for the wealthy individual client are counting on.
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>> With all due respect, when it comes down to basics they do. Without customers a
>> company has no income, without income it cannot pay wages.
>>
And where do the customers get their money? and so on and on and on ....
>> Unless of course it's a hedge fund. ;-)
>>
Or it is financed by debt, or raised through venture capital, or the stock market, or ....
In the end, if you are employed, it is your employer who pays you and is subject to employment laws. If the employer has depends on paying customers for income, remember not all customers will pay their invoices and so you won't know which customer is your your ultimate source of wages. The customer couldn't care less whether you are paid minimum wages, zero-hour contract, or on some fabulously generous profit share scheme.
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>> > Notwithstanding the office politics
>>
>> Leaving aside consideration of the incompetent managers that allow them to arise, why does anyone
>> get involved in office politics? When did it ever contribute to or help anything?
>>
>> It never does anybody any good.
>>
In my experience, those that excel at it tent to get promoted quickest regardless of their ability to do the job they were originally employed for!
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>>In my experience, those that excel at it tent to get promoted quickest regardless of their ability to do the job they were originally employed for!
You'd think.
But IME it doesn't last. They all fail in the end. Or at least stagnate. Karma is quite the thing in a work environment.
Its not 100%, but its better than you think.
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I don't really know what office politics is. Cliques, I suppose, with their little secrets and agendas that they don't share. Often a "boss", anywhere between dept head and supervisor, at the centre of it, which makes them useless.
What I have always recognised is that people have agendas, preferences, personal objectives, various buttons to press and they are all different. That includes people with great integrity (that's just a button, and a very useful one). Getting to know people in a negotiation, and trying to understand their behaviours as well as what they really want has never been a waste of time. Managing a boss is not much different.
Nobody's objectives are just what they wrote or agreed to on their annual appraisal, they go much wider than that.
I don't think that is playing politics, just being as effective as possible. Logic rarely wins an argument or changes anybody's mind.
Off topic, sorry.
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I'm not really sure I understand your point.
I accept that you don't know what office politics are, and that will of course lead to some of the confusion, but whatever they are interpreted to be, they shouldn't be confused with effective relationship management or interpersonal sensitivity. Those are both quite different.
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>> I'm not really sure I understand your point.
That giving people what they want, and managing what you get out of it, requires thought and effort around things other than the task. I've known people complain about "office politics" when they simply haven't bothered to understand the people around them, or the culture they operate in.
Does "office politics" differ from normal human power games involving secretive behaviour, favouritism, forming little gangs and alliances, bullying, work-shedding, blaming, taking undeserved credit, brown-nosing, backside-covering and innate nastiness? Doesn't it come down to how individuals act and why? Is it only called "office politics" when it damages other people?
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Meh, I think you're getting all complicated and difficult beyond what was actually being discussed.
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>> Am I Being Unreasonable
Yes, since you asked.
I won't charge you any fees for the reply.
;-)
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I was going to reply but I'm on my break.
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I don't give free professional advice.
I do give free unprofessional advice.
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Given this is what the ladies would called an aibu thread, the answer is usually yanbu or yabu.
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Googling tells me those are acronyms from Mumsnet Cranky.
Is there something you want to tell us? :-)
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"Is there something you want to tell us? :-)"
On the internet no-one knows who you really are.
For all we know, the members of this forum are all impostors.
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>>Expected to get my hour's break;
I have never, once, in my life, expected a break of an hour.
>>Am I being unreasonable?
What is this, Mumsnet?
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>> >>Expected to get my hour's break;
>>
>> I have never, once, in my life, expected a break of an hour.
>>
I have also in my 40 years with a large IT company often not had a break at lunch times when things are busy, nor would I ever really expect to have a break of an hour, nor would I expect to have a 7.5 hour working day, despite what is specified in company "policy".
However I also have, as the balance to that, the freedom to use my working time as I want to as long as the job(s) get done.
For example I can type a reply here while having a coffee :-)
But I got here (70 miles from home) at 7:55 this morning, and I will not leave, to go to my hotel for the next 4 nights until well after 6.
Swings and roundabouts
Much better than my wife & daughter who, as teachers have the downsides of fixed "break" times, start times etc, with all the long hours that marking, planning and open evenings add to that particular profession.
Have never understood the "on the clock" mentality, but each to his/her own I suppose.
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>> I have never, once, in my life, expected a break of an hour.
In reality I don't either.
There is though an hour in the middle of my day for which I am explicitly not paid.
If, as I often do, I elect to work through that's my choice.
Being told to work through is a different thing.
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>> If, as I often do, I elect to work through that's my choice.
>>
>> Being told to work through is a different thing.
That sounds like a recipe for high blood pressure.
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I spent a lot of time at work and I was often late home but I always tried to take lunch breaks, sometimes long ones.
A friend is working for a well known Chinese electronics company. In the UK offices, many of the Chinese employees recline their office chairs and shut their eyes at lunchtime. In China, they get the camp beds our and turn the lights off.
He has already done a few trips to China, flying economy. Having just reached a certain age, he can now travel business class. That's a proper HR policy!
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I remember a few job posts/roles ago i used to get an hour break at midday plus 2 x 20 minute breaks during the day. They were near universally taken by everyone pretty much on time. No pressure from the bosses to work through at all, i found it quite refreshing.
Although this was near 15 years ago I've no doubt it's still exactly the same.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 13 Mar 17 at 11:34
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Here's an example of my working life. Yesterday I got up at 04.00, left the house at 04.45, drove 180 odd miles to one of our offices arriving at 08.30, worked all day there grabbing a sandwich on the run, left there about 17.30 and drove home arriving at 21.00. Another sandwich and then spent an hour or so catching up up with emails and off to bed at 24.00.
Today, I'm working from home and stumbled downstairs to my office about 09.00, I'll walk the dog at lunchtime and if I'm all done by late afternoon I'll knock off early.
Just the way it is. Couldn't imagine or indeed bear having anyone telling me when I should start or finish. I'd wither in an environment like that.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Tue 14 Mar 17 at 10:44
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Of course, all hugely dependent on your job and your position in the hierarchy of course. I've always worked in places where you needed to be on a start/finish time, simply the nature of the job makes anything else impractical. Likewise working from home is impossible. Although I'm away from work quite a bit* when I'm at home I'm close to work so commuting to work is a doddle. I've got my own mileage down to a few thousand a year now. Gotten quite used to it.
* i worked it out the other day, going over an 16 month period, it'll be something like 180 nights away from home.
I'm not sure if its a lot compared to others on here? Do others here do more or less than that?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 14 Mar 17 at 11:21
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>> * i worked it out the other day, going over an 16 month period, it'll
>> be something like 180 nights away from home.
>> I'm not sure if its a lot compared to others on here? Do others here
>> do more or less than that?
>>
I worked out via the hotel rewards page that over about a 6 year period from 2009-2014, on different projects so not always based away from home, I had stayed 776 nights in the same group of hotels.
Incidentally, so far this year I have stayed 30 nights in a different hotel group on a different project
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> I worked out via the hotel rewards page that over about a 6 year period
>> from 2009-2014, on different projects so not always based away from home, I had stayed
>> 776 nights in the same group of hotels.
>>
>> Incidentally, so far this year I have stayed 30 nights in a different hotel group
>> on a different project
>>
If you don't mind me asking, do you tend to go away in big blocks or smaller but more frequently. Mainly nights away in the UK or abroad?
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>> If you don't mind me asking, do you tend to go away in big blocks
>> or smaller but more frequently. Mainly nights away in the UK or abroad?
>>
Since I started the "Consulting" part of my career about 18 years ago, I have been based mainly on client sites for the duration of my engagement on the project.
In some cases, these have been a reasonable travelling distance from home and have been done on a daily basis. In others they have required what the consulting world refers to as 5 4 3 working, ie 5 days working on the project 4 days based at the client site and 3 nights away from home, obviously the number of days or nights alters depending on the stage of the project.
Some projects, I have been on for two years and more, other projects are 2 or 3 months in duration. Some I drive to and from at either end of the week and others I travel by train.
Since 1998 I have not flown on business either inside or outside the UK.
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Thanks for that. Ours tend to be in bigger blocks, ie weeks or months and generally abroad. Although the odd trip might crop up in the UK, although they tend to be shorter two weeks max.
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Never had massive amounts of time away - probably 5 nights in a month max.
I used to have a supplier rep who was European - he told me that in 2015 he reckoned he only spent 18 nights sleeping in his own house due to being based in the UK most weeks, and on holiday the rest of the time
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I have spent one night away from London (working) in my entire working life.
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I dislike being in hotels overnight. Only do it if it's totally unavoidable. I don't mind early starts or late finishes if it means I can sleep in my own bed. Don't want to sit in some bar listening to wallpaper music and talking to some other sad sack trying to while away an evening and equally don't want to waste hours of my life watching rubbish tv in my room. If I have to stay away, I try to find a hotel that has a pool so I can at least have a swim.
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I had about 18 months of working substantially away from home in 1991-3. The odd night or two or even a week working elsewhere, I have done since but for me being away even three nights a week for months at a time is no life at all for anyone with a family.
During that 18 months I was driving a lot too, and I hadn't realised how run down and tired I had become until I stopped doing it. Perhaps I should have - I had a perforated ulcer during that period!
Following that experience I resolved never to do it again unless circumstances made it unavoidable. Neither would I become a regular London commuter. This has limited my choices somewhat, and certainly my income, but I don't regret it at all.
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I have spent one night away from London (working) in my entire working life.
Were/are you happy with that or wish that'd you'd travelled more with work?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 14 Mar 17 at 14:36
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Less of the were!
The choice isn't really between none and a little though is it. It's between none and loads. It's quite fun to do it occasionally. Indeed I realise I have told a lie in that I have twice(!) had to go to Paris and have gone over the night before and stayed in a hotel at my own expense. But that's because one can do that by train.
I loathe airports with a vengeance. They're such a waste of one's life. All hotels look the same. And most business travel leaves one with little opportunity to explore. So you might as well not.
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And most business travel leaves one with little opportunity to explore. So
>> you might as well not.
>>
I think it depends on the nature of the travel, a business meeting and travel straight back would leave you little time to wonder about. Luckily (or not! ) we're away for much longer leaving quite a bit of time to explore even have a night or two away elsewhere to explore.
I agree with you that airports can be dull, although I find the flights to be even more dull.
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Much as I hate flying (I don't mind being in an aeroplane, and I don't mind it being off the ground, I just hate the whole process), airporting is much worse. I'm quite happy sitting down with a good book/spreadsheet. In fact I rather enjoy the complete lack of distraction one has when in an aeroplane. Airports, on the other hand, you're constantly being shipped around and waiting for something to happen. Whilst on a plane you're going somewhere so I think it's quite different psychologically for me; not dull.
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>> I have spent one night away from London (working) in my entire working life.
I spent a year working in the channel islands, so home was moved there. I guess it wasn't working away from home in that case
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Spent too many nights away with work. Sort of miss it a little. A recent trip to Cardiff was an optional overnighter, I opted to drive for some stubborn reason
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I've been around in my time, a year in Aberdeen, six months in Glasgow, 4 months in Newcastle, 4 months in Peterborough, 8 months in Middlesbrough, always coming home for weekends but sometimes leaving again on Sunday afternoon.
When the company would cough for it I always went Holiday Inn (or express) as their loyalty scheme was second to none, as the longer you stayed the more the accelerated your earning - the whole year in Aberdeen was a great earner!!
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>> Spent too many nights away with work. Sort of miss it a little. A recent
>> trip to Cardiff was an optional overnighter, I opted to drive for some stubborn reason
>>
North Wales to South and back again. That is a carp journey, and Cardiff's not the worst place for a night out. Indicates a very high degree of stubbornness. ;-)
Comes with the territory for me of course. Nights away are an integral part of many lorry drivers' job description;mine vary from the odd one or two a week (and not every week) at this time of year, to being out Monday through till Friday, or even Saturday, in summer.
Standards have risen dramatically in terms of cab comfort and facilities in recent years, though the en-suite still leaves a lot to be desired! That however is offset by the almost criminal dearth of decent facilities and safe affordable places to park in the UK, when compared with continental Europe. The old lorry parks in towns, usually on cattle markets and the like, have largely gone usually due to complaints from the nouveau riche who don't want to lose any of their beauty sleep but begrudge us having a safe place to get ours. This, combined with the reluctance of some hauliers to pay for parking, is why so many lorries park up in lay-bys overnight, with zero facilities and with their drivers at risk of harrassment and even assault.
Picture yourself being rocked to sleep (or awake) by passing traffic for nine hours with only an empty pop bottle to pee in, and then ask yourselves why tiredness and the accompanying accidents are such an issue in the industry.
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I like Cardiff,stayed there a few times over the years. A character flaw made me do the round trip - it became a challenge. It wasn't a bad trip down, A55, A5, A49 across to the M4, less than four hours. Traffic on the M4 was bad. Came back the same way and was plagued by incidents, accidents. Weather was good for November which helped. Lat time I did the round trip in day I had the old 3 Series with the straight six petrol - felt a little better than the diesel, mind you cross country transport, difficult to fault the 320. The other option was taking the train. I couldn't face that either.
Went to the bike show the next day by car :-)
Last edited by: R.P. on Tue 14 Mar 17 at 22:08
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Am I Being Unreasonable - sooty123
