Presumably you judge acting awards on artistic merit so seems reasonable that you can compare female and male actors in the same category.
They are both doing the same job. You wouldn't have separate awards for male and female authors, lorry drivers or accountants so why different ones for male and female actors?
I think many female actors feel that being put into a separate category is rather belittling.
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>> Presumably you judge acting awards on artistic merit so seems reasonable that you can compare female and male actors in the same category.
>>
>> They are both doing the same job. You wouldn't have separate awards for male and
>> female authors, lorry drivers or accountants so why different ones for male and female actors?
>>
Agreed.
>> I think many female actors feel that being put into a separate category is rather
>> belittling.
>>
Why should female actors see it as belittling, why shouldn't male actors not see it as belittling, it's like the idea of all female/male shortlists, it should be on merit alone.
However what if it were applied to sport?
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Harder to do i suppose as nearly every sport is segregated by sex.
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>> However what if it were applied to sport?
>>
>>
Sport involving any kind of physical strength obviously cannot be gender neutral. Other sports, no reason why not. I don't believe sailing has men's & women's awards but I may be wrong.
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>> Why should female actors see it as belittling, why shouldn't male actors not see it
>> as belittling, it's like the idea of all female/male shortlists, it should be on merit
>> alone.
Because there's a perception, rooted to a degree in historical reality, that an actor and an actress are judged by different standards/
>> However what if it were applied to sport?
Why not in those few sports where men and women compete on equal terms?
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Horse racing, motorsports, chess (?) Can't think of many off the top of my head.
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"Why not in those few sports where men and women compete on equal terms?"
The 100 metres?
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>> The 100 metres?
>>
Exactly, do those who advocate gender neutral awards also think that athletics should be gender neutral and if not could they be accused of wanting to have it both ways.
While I agree with some of the points above, CGNorwich's post for instance, on balance I think that there should be awards for male and female actors, after all a man is not going to win a Bafta award for playing, say, Marilyn Monroe and a woman is not going to win a Oscar for playing , say, Richard Nixon.
Likewise it is clear that in most sports there should be gender categories, the exception being where skill rather than physical prowess is the key attribute, snooker, darts, motor racing, horse racing, show jumping, dressage, perhaps sailing etc.
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>> While I agree with some of the points above, CGNorwich's post for instance, on balance
>> I think that there should be awards for male and female actors, after all a
>> man is not going to win a Bafta award for playing, say, Marilyn Monroe and
>> a woman is not going to win a Oscar for playing , say, Richard Nixon.
Robin Williams won an award for Mrs Doubtfire and Dustin Hoffman an Oscar nomination for Tootsie.
No reason why judging acting the part of Monroe as against that of Nixon is more problematic then judging acting the latter versus. lets say, Admiral Nimitz
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 8 May 17 at 15:43
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>> Robin Williams won an award for Mrs Doubtfire and Dustin Hoffman an Oscar nomination for Tootsie.
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Neither were serious roles and could, would be judged accordingly whether gender neutral or not.
The point is could a man have played, say, Karen Silkwood as well as Meryl Streep.
>> No reason why judging acting the part of Monroe as against that of Nixon is
>> more problematic then judging acting the latter versus. lets say, Admiral Nimitz
>>
That's not the point, its's not a matter of judging acting the part of Monroe against that of Nixon, the point is that only a woman can play Monroe seriously, accurately, so it cannot be totally gender neutral when neither Dustin Hofmann or Robin Williams, or any other male, could ever play Karen Silkwood, or Margaret Thatcher, as well as Meryl Streep.
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>> Likewise it is clear that in most sports there should be gender categories, the exception
>> being where skill rather than physical prowess is the key attribute, snooker, darts, motor racing,
>> horse racing, show jumping, dressage, perhaps sailing etc.
Except that snooker and darts are not sports.
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>>Except that snooker and darts are not sports.
Agreed. And fairly annoying that they are described as such.
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>> >>Except that snooker and darts are not sports.
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>> Agreed. And fairly annoying that they are described as such.
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Fair point!
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>>However what if it were applied to sport?
Why not?
Why wouldn't they run in the same 100m race, with there being an overall winner and then 1st in each group.
Not unlike when you have different class cars running in the same race; You have overall winner, Group A winner, etc. It allows all groups to participate, to measure themselves against their peers, and to measure themselves overall.
So in the 100m you would have fastest overall, then fastest woman, fastest child under 16, fastest blond, fastest whatever.
If a Football team wishes to field a woman, then why not? You should try having a conversation with No. 1 daughter about her not being able to play 'proper' rugby. She's bitter.
So, in this example there should be an award for best acting person. then, if they wish to award sub-group prizes, why not?
Storm, teacup.
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Exactly what I was going to say CG!
Pat
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And the winner is: ....
Dianne Abbot, for her election pledge to appoint x additional policemen at a cost of £y within a period of n years.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Mon 8 May 17 at 18:04
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Just to pick up on a point, there are of course lots of literature prizes exclusively for women.
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You are right but in my mind they too are a little patronising to women. You can either write well or you can't. Gender doesn't come into it. Judge on the quality of the writing
That is not to sY of course that There are of course certain types of books that appeal to men more than women and vice verse.
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Does anyone else see the irony of the gender neutral award being based upon a film in which the lead character is very much all woman and referred to in the title as 'Beauty'?
You couldn't make this sh...stuff up!
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So there are differences between people which cause some people to perform better at certain tasks or sports than others. Some of those differences are in-built pretty much from birth eg height, bone structure, intelligence to some extent, gender, spatial awareness, hand/eye coordination, heart size, and doubtless many others. Others are acquired by training.
Some of those differences are deliberately tested in competition, others are eliminated from contest by selection, grouping, or handicapping. Some characteristics render a person inevitably unlikely to be able to compete with others who are better-advantaged, some differences are segregated and the competitors only play against their own kind.
Such segregation on some bases would be regarded as unethical and utterly unacceptable, eg race. (Pygmies would be unlikely to have an equal competition with large people, eg the Dutch) Other forms of segregated competition are encouraged and celebrated, eg gender, age and physical handicap.
Only very rarely is actual difference in ability taken into account, eg golf.
Rather odd, I think. But then I'm not a sportsman.
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Gender neutral awards ... - CGNorwich
