I filmed BR Standard Class 7 70013 "Oliver Cromwell" blasting through a wet Grateley last week, it was on its own, no assistance with a load up of 11 mk1s (about 400 tons). 15 mins earlier a South West trains 159 DMU sprinter struggled to get sufficient traction to start, the sanders blasting away and traction control cutting the horsepower at the wheels to nearly not very much.
This video shows what trains are up against, - Sometimes two engines is not enough!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuBd9Jt6Aaw
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Zero, is there a website where I can get the driving cylinder configuration of steam locomotives? I assume that there are cylinders located inboard on some judging by the exhaust pulses.
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...some have (only) inside cylinders, some have (only) outside cylinders, and some have both.
In the latter case, it may be one or two inside cylinders, and, in the case of a "compound" arrangement, the internal one(s) may make secondary use (albeit at lower pressure) of the steam already utilised in the outside ones. All in search of increased thermal efficiency.
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I understand the compound bit, steam ships (and submarines) have high and low pressure turbines and there are a few triple expansion piston engines around. It didn't occur to me that locomotives were compound engines but it makes sense. Wiki gives some locomotive configurations, I wondered if there was a dedicated "anorak" site that gives more detailed info.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 11 Sep 17 at 20:46
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UK Railways were never keen on compound locos, unlike our continental brethren, so few were buillt and run on the main line and none remain in preservation (tho there are some immigrants)
Its all down to the CME, the Chief Mecanical Engineer, from one of the big four. People like Bullied on the Southern, Gresley on the LNER, Riddles on the LMS and Collet on the GWR. They ruled the roost and set the design
The two locos in question in the clip I posted are LMS "Black" 5's, later to be incorporated as BR standard class 5. Both twin cylinder (outside) utilising primary super heated high pressure (about 250 psi) steam, with Walschaerts valve gear.
And its all about the valve gear really, and getting it to the centre cylinder, Take the A4 class (think mallard), Three cylinders, one in the middle between the frames. The valve gear in the centre had to be linked to the gear on the outside, and was done so through a hellish fiendish reciprocating system that never really worked, always failed to distribute the workload properly and hence were always wrecking the centre main crank bearing
There are 4 cylinder locos, two out and two in.
as for the database, its called TOPS. www.railuk.info/steam/getsteamclass.php?item=BLACK
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>> as for the database, its called TOPS.......
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TOPS (Total Operations Processing System) was actually the BR system for tracking locos and rolling stock, bought from Southern Pacific in the States, and utilising an underlying database with all the managed assets entered on it.
In the early days of its implementation, it was not over-reliable, and the joke was that it was regularly substituted by BOTTOMS (Back Over To The Old Manual System).
;-)
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>> >> as for the database, its called TOPS.......
>> >>
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>> TOPS (Total Operations Processing System) was actually the BR system for tracking locos and rolling
>> stock, bought from Southern Pacific in the States, and utilising an underlying database with all
>> the managed assets entered on it.
And is still in use today, linked by TRUST (Train Running Under System TOPS) with ITPS (integrated train planning system)
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>>..... with ITPS (integrated train planning system)
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....the forerunner of which (TSDB) I implemented as an on-line system using CICS/ADABAS some 30-odd years ago (and I think much of the concept survives to this day ;-) )
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I seem to recall it was running on a chronically under powered 4381 at one point.
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TBH, I can't remember, since I worked on so many m/cs in so many locations.......and much of the BR IBM kit (not TOPS) was "second user". It probably post-dated me.
TSDB was my baby and about two years of my life (and I actually left 3 weeks before it went live, succesfully, and on time).
An enjoyable time - but pastures new and a big salary-hike beckoned. ;-)
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>> And its all about the valve gear really,
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I read Fred Dibner's book recently and was interested to learn that traction engines sometimes had a gearbox to give a higher ratio for lighter work cruising between jobs. I had always assumed that steam engines didn't need gearboxes.
But further reading showed that foreign rail locomotives often used gears, especially US, but that Britain relied entirely on variable valve timing to achieve the same thing.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Tue 12 Sep 17 at 08:28
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>> I read Fred Dibner's book recently and was interested to learn that traction engines sometimes
>> had a gearbox to give a higher ratio for lighter work cruising between jobs. I
>> had always assumed that steam engines didn't need gearboxes.
>> But further reading showed that foreign rail locomotives often used gears, especially US, but that
>> Britain relied entirely on variable valve timing to achieve the same thing.
I understand Sentinel steam lorries had a two-speed gearbox.
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>> But further reading showed that foreign rail locomotives often used gears, especially US, but that
>> Britain relied entirely on variable valve timing to achieve the same thing.
And much bigger driving wheels. SR merchant Navy class Clan Line, currently ripping up the rails at slightly illegal speeds has whopping 6'2" driving wheels.
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>> as for the database, its called TOPS. www.railuk.info/steam/getsteamclass.php?item=BLACK
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Thanks Z, that helps pin down who has what in the cylinder department.
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Wonderful clarity. I have subscribed.
Regards,
The Banker.
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I have promised myself that when the Union Pacific get get 4014 "Big Boy" back on the track I am off to the states to film it.
Its bigger than this, its baby brother
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bjrV2rjeSI
Oil fired tho.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 11 Sep 17 at 22:08
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I have kicked the tyres of this one, there is good skiing in Jasper! Not in the same league as a big boy though.
www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM7TMQ_CN_Mountain_Locomotive_6015_Jasper_Alberta
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There is at least one British compound loco in preservation, No.1000 of the Midland Railway, probably the best of the British designed compounds.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtwghZ5Bw9c
William Arthur Stanier, Later Sir, was CME of the LMS company. Riddles was a junior and later became CME of the nationalised British Railways
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>> I have promised myself that when the Union Pacific get get 4014 "Big Boy" back
>> on the track I am off to the states to film it.
Me too. I'd love to see that beastie in action.
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I travelled on a steam train with my mother in the fifties in the U.K.We where on our way to London.Can't belief how time has gone by.
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Time like the wind, those are hurrying by and the hours just fly. Where to begin, there are mountains I'd climb, if I'd time.
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Rear ( wheel) drive to the rescue. - Zero
