A friend of mine wants to travel by train from, lets say, Walton on Thames to Portsmouth Harbour in May.
She can pay £28 each way from Walton, or £9.10 from Waterloo. Can anyone explain the logic, or better still a way round it?
Information from Trainline:-
www.thetrainline.com/
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>> A friend of mine wants to travel by train from, lets say, Walton on Thames
>> to Portsmouth Harbour in May.
>>
>> She can pay £28 each way from Walton, or £9.10 from Waterloo. Can anyone explain
>> the logic, or better still a way round it?
The logic is that low fares chase the main passenger flows. Competition is a factor too - is it possible to travel directly to Portsmouth from a terminus other than Waterloo?
Often the way round is to break the journey. I guess that starting from Walton you'd change somewhere like Woking. If there's a cheaper fare from Woking buy that plus a single to Woking.
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Try a ticket splitting app or website. Is she entitled to a senior railcard, has she got one?
The £28 one for May is probably an APEX or whatever they are called now, not the standard fare.
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Sorry didn't RTBQ properly.
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Assuming the person is traveling off peak, there is no train from Walton on Thames to Portsmouth, a change is required at Woking. There are many cheap deals on off peak trains from Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour, to take advantage of the lure of Gunwharf Keys retail outlet. Portsmouth Harbour is also served by Southern from Victoria,
So its about a hefty discount attracting passengers from a much larger catchment area by a ToC
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 26 Mar 18 at 08:35
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Oh and don't buy the Waterloo to Portsmouth ticket on trainline and expect the automatic ticket barrier at Walton to let you on the platform. It won't.
The ticket to Portsmouth from woking, is not cheap either
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 26 Mar 18 at 08:43
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>> Oh and don't buy the Waterloo to Portsmouth ticket on trainline and expect the automatic
>> ticket barrier at Walton to let you on the platform. It won't.
Would the Waterloo ticket operate the barriers at Woking - if you need to go through them at all changing off a train from Walton?
Could still get you into trouble though. Case recently where somebody was delayed getting to the originating station by public transport so drove directly to train's first stop and joined it there. Stations involved were possibly Nottingham and Langley Mill but not sure of detail. Guard told him his ticket was invalid and a new one needed.
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>> Would the Waterloo ticket operate the barriers at Woking - if you need to go
>> through them at all changing off a train from Walton?
No barrier between Down slow (ex Walton) and Down fast (ex Waterloo) so its physically possible, but who knows about validity.
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>> No barrier between Down slow (ex Walton) and Down fast (ex Waterloo) so its physically
>> possible, but who knows about validity.
Opps forgot that the Walton Stopper, terminates in the buffer stopped bay platform 3 (know locally as platform 9 -3/4 because you can't find it unless you know about it), but even so pax entry to that is via the fast down platform, so its still easy and possible if not valid.
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"Down slow and Down fast"
Mrs Zero's instructions at bedtime?
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She can't talk with her mouth full
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Could still get you into trouble though. Case recently where somebody was delayed getting to
>> the originating station by public transport so drove directly to train's first stop and joined
>> it there. Stations involved were possibly Nottingham and Langley Mill but not sure of detail.
>> Guard told him his ticket was invalid and a new one needed.
>>
Sounds like an incredibly keen or bored guard.
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>>
>> Sounds like an incredibly keen or bored guard.
Not really, just doing his job.
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>> >>
>> >> Sounds like an incredibly keen or bored guard.
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>> Not really, just doing his job.
>>
Still seems very petty, however if it went to court there's probably more to it.
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>>Still seems very petty, however if it went to court there's probably more to it.<<
We will never know if there was an "attitude test" issue. However there are probably other issues that come into play - do the TOCs have 'mystery shoppers' that are used to test the honesty or otherwise of the 'revenue protection' employees?
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>>Guard told him his ticket was invalid and a new one needed.
Nothing new there. You've never (not for decades, anyway) been allowed to do that sort of thing. Though I have a vague feeling that it might be different at stations where train stops only to pick up - like Stockport for London trains out of Manchester accepting Manchester tickets.
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>> Nothing new there. You've never (not for decades, anyway) been allowed to do that sort
>> of thing.
>>
As an intermittent railway user over the years I am aware of some things like that but I have never really understood why they existed and especially why they still exist today in this high tech consumer oriented world.
Would one of the railway travel "experts" around here like to explain anomalies like the one a couple of posts back.
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>> Would one of the railway travel "experts" around here like to explain anomalies like the
>> one a couple of posts back.
As part of the franchise, a TOC has to provide statutory services, but they don't have to advertise them. Sometimes it makes operational sense* to include these statutory services into a working timetable for other services. SO you end up with a service with a stop that is only valid under certain circumstances.
*The Waterloo/Clapham J/Alton service is a case in point. The ToC has to offer a CJ to Alton Service under the terms of the franchise, and they would want one anyway its a good revenue earner, they don't want the Waterloo to CJ section packed to the rafters with people and there are lots of those services anyway, stopping to drop off and pick up adds another minute to the timetable, so you get a pick up only on the advertised timetable.
And of course there are the infamous parliamentary trains, trains that must run order a railway order, services that run once a week, non advertised, usually to places on routes that no-one wants to use anyway. I have taken a few just for a laugh. They are not as daft as they sound tho, often they are on alternate or diversionary routes, routes used when other sections of the line are closed, and therefore routes that drivers must learn and retain route knowledge and competency.
Lack of alternate route knowledge is a now a major issue on the greater UK network
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 26 Mar 18 at 11:45
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>> Nothing new there. You've never (not for decades, anyway) been allowed to do that sort
>> of thing. Though I have a vague feeling that it might be different at stations
>> where train stops only to pick up - like Stockport for London trains out of
>> Manchester accepting Manchester tickets.
I love those "pick up only" scenarios. The Waterloo to Alton train stops at Clapham Junction to pick up only, so its not included on the list on the departure board at Waterloo, but everyone knows about it and uses it. And its to short for the Guard/On Board Supervisor/Revenue Protection Agent/Train Captain/Customer Service Agent/Safety officer - (take your title pick depending on your TOC*) to do anything about.
*The union only recognises one job title - Guard.
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>> I love those "pick up only" scenarios........
...quite a few of the Western Region HQ staff worked in Paddington and lived in Reading.
A number of the West Country trains were "stop to pick up" only at Reading, and thus not 'flagged' on the departure board at Paddington.
Quite a few HQ staff used to catch one such train sometime after 17:00, and duly alight at Reading.
On one Monday, a work acquaintance found himself unaccompanied by any colleagues on the train, and only realised once the Guard announced "first stop Taunton", that it was the day of the seasonal timetable change. Dinner in the dog time... ;-)
He was either lucky or unlucky (depending on your point of view) in that the train came to a signal stop in the non-platform through line at Reading, and he bailed out onto the tracks.
He was lucky in that he got his dinner, but unlucky in that (having been reported by station staff) he was put on a form 1 (BR equivalent of final warning).
I suspect in these days of e**** safety it would have been immediate dismissal.
(that was el fin, not ef fin - strange swear filter)
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Wed 28 Mar 18 at 14:27
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>> I suspect in these days of e**** safety it would have been immediate dismissal.
Yup Because he hadn't re certified and therefore have a current, PTS – Personal Track Safety - certificate. Certainly no PTW – Permit To Work -, Had no briefing from the COSS - (controller of site safety) wasnt wearing his PPE (personal protection equipment EN ISO 20471 Class 2). Probably no CESS (authorised walking route) on the GWDML (great western down main line) so he would have needed high visibility lower body clothing to EN ISO 20471 as well.
lucky he didn't have to worry about the ETR (electrified third rail) but now of course the line has HVOHLE (high voltage overhead line equipment)
It may not surprise you to know that all the sections of the NRSC (Network Rail Safety case) has nearly three thousand acronyms in it.
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>> I love those "pick up only" scenarios.
Milton Keynes has pick up/set down only services at various times.
When the station first opened there were non. Then when commuter use became a 'problem' several peak calls both ways were pick up/set down only during the London Midland Region/Inter City sector eras. By late nineties Virgin were struggling to fill services against strong air competition and plus there was money to be made by grabbing a share of the commuter revenue. Restrictions were pretty much all removed both ways and Silverlink lost a lot of customers.
Come the first Pendolino timetable in 2004 restrictions were re-introduced on most morning and all evening peak services - barrier controls at Euston and RPOs on the fast line platform ensured the rules were kept.
Now they've gone again on a few services but there's no longer a significant time saving as London North Western have services non stop to MK. The mods to allow the 350 emus to run at 110mph mean they've not got the following Pendolino biting at their ankles before Leighton Buzzard.
In another 'what goes around comes around' scenario fast commuter services to Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, MK and beyond operate in 'flighted' pairs every half hour. Exactly what happened before fast line slots were ceded to Virgin in the noughties.
When we lived in Watford I used to catch the s/b Stranraer sleeper train which set down only at Watford Junction and invariably had hundreds of spare seats. All the regular crew tolerated it with one xception who threatened to confiscate my season and charge me the fare from Crewe.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 28 Mar 18 at 14:51
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For those of us not in the industry/spotters, why would trains only pick up or drop off and not both?
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>> For those of us not in the industry/spotters, why would trains only pick up or
>> drop off and not both?
Originally intended to stop short/middle distance commuters packing out long distance trains for sake of saving 5 minutes. Most common at places along the M25 corridor like Watford, Stevenage or Reading where long distance services pick up north bound or drop south bound passengers. Additional advantage with London bound trains that if they arrive early at that last set down only station they don't need to hang about waiting booked departure. They'll often arrive early as there's a recovery margin approaching London
In the modern privatised railway there's an added issue where one operator may be prevented from abstracting revenue from another. For example in early days of Virgin Pendolino services a couple of late trains from London to Birmingham ran via Northampton and stopped there to set down only. Picking up would have abstracted revenue from Central Trains services.
It was useful for late returns home after pub nights in London. However if you slept through the Northampton stop a taxi home from Rugby was bloomin expensive.........
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I think understand, sounds complicated, although I admit my train knowledge is limited to using them a couple of times a year.
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>> I think understand, sounds complicated, although I admit my train knowledge is limited to using
>> them a couple of times a year.
If you just pick up the the pocket timetable for your local commuter service it won't even show the services in question.
They will though be featured in the National Timetable and on the arrival/departure posters on the station with the annotations s or p against their calling time.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 29 Mar 18 at 22:17
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>> Would the Waterloo ticket operate the barriers at Woking - if you need to go
>> through them at all changing off a train from Walton?
>>
Start/finish at a station with no automatic barriers, such as West Byfleet, then change at Woking.
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Some colleagues of mine in a bit of a rush to get from London to Slough so decided to get the train and buy the tickets on the train.
Get to Slough and no ticket and there are of course barriers... and you can't get out without a ticket. They received fines. And you can't claim those on expenses.
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Can my friend buy the cheap ticket from Waterloo and use it? Or should she buy the full price ticket from Walton?
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>> Can my friend buy the cheap ticket from Waterloo and use it? Or should she
>> buy the full price ticket from Walton?
>>
You have been given the answer.
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Cheap train Tickets - Bromptonaut
