Firefighters turned up at this terror incident two hrs after the damage was done and many people injured and killed.
Is this health and safety gone mad by the leadership and good men and women were not allowed to help.
Beggars belief.
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The fire bridge turned up at the start but were told not to enter. The police declared it as Operation Plato, a plan for dealing with a suspected marauding armed terrorist. The paramedics did not get told this and entered the building to help the injured. The fire brigade could have done so as well despite the police declaring Operation Plato - but a senior fire officer decided to keep the fire crews 500m away from the venue.
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If that was the procedure for Operation Plato then he can't really be criticised for it.
However, I think he "couldn't get hold of" the duty police commander and wasn't told when Plato was cancelled - pretty pathetic if that was the case.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 28 Mar 18 at 14:42
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No battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy.
The trouble with rigid operational plans is that no-one is allowed to use common sense
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Bob Kerslake's repor,t, upon which the recent coverage is based is here:
www.kerslakearenareview.co.uk/media/1022/kerslake_arena_review_printed_final.pdf
Not got time to read it right now.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 28 Mar 18 at 17:46
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A quote from the report....
"As well as celebrating the things that went well however, it is vital that we also
learn the lessons of what went less well. "
They forgot...
"... and for the media to leap on like vultures, desperate to make sensationalist headline material out of attributing blame, wherever possible accompanied by the vilification of individuals whilst all the time trying to appear shocked and public-interest serving"
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The fire service is an emergency service.Police 'ambulance ditto.
If it is true they turned up about two hrs after a serious emergency situation then we should be allowed to question this.The main fire station in Manchester is less than a mile away from where this tragedy occurred.
There were also failings in the London flat fire.No high rise ladders and fireman equipped with radio's which didn' work properly.
People who do this type of work will often go the extra mile and safe people.The French policeman who took the place of a hostage is that kind.The leadership has been poor in both these incidents regarding London and Manchester.
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Dutchie - I don't know the full ins and outs but I did read that they followed the agreed policy which RJT refers to above.
I don't think the fire service itself, or anyone in it, can be blamed - they were following the agreed plan.
The planning and decisions surrounding it certainly need to be reviewed though, along with the comms.
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>> If it is true they turned up about two hrs after a serious emergency situation
>> then we should be allowed to question this.The main fire station in Manchester is less
>> than a mile away from where this tragedy occurred.
The report says in it's executive summary:
The reasons for the failure of GMFRS to respond adequately to the attack are set
out in full in our report. There is not one single reason nor one individual that
caused this failure. Rather, it was a combination of poor communication and poor
procedures. GMFRS will need to reflect on the wider issues it raises for their
operational culture and approach to multi-agency working.
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Not sure if anyone can confirm this but I heard a long time ago that the way that the fire service is run mirrors the royal navy, is that right?
As has been said, they stuck rigidly to their op-plans while other emergency services acted as they saw it, I guess tackling fires require a well thought out plan to make sure the guys return safely (going into burning buildings, etc).
Listening to the radio, this is where they seem to have come under criticism, although it wasn't that long ago when police where pulled up after they followed H&S and didn't jump into a lake to save a drowning person whereas I think the fire service (?passer-by) did.
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>> Not sure if anyone can confirm this but I heard a long time ago that
>> the way that the fire service is run mirrors the royal navy, is that right?
By tradition only, but it is none the less still a "discipline" service with rank and lines of command that are expected to be followed and respected. My cousin was a watch commander, and a couple of my extended family joined the FS after coming out of the navy.
The Fire Service has more operational plans, that are used daily, than any other emergency service, All their activities and call outs, every time, are team based and for larger incidents teams need to be combined under a single command. A plan, Process, following orders, lines of command are all vital, Being a team a fireman knows he has back-up.
Its also a finite resource, a resource that could (and has) at any time be called away to the big one* You don't tie up resource without good reason, and at the end of the day, the place wasn't on fire, wasn't falling down, people were not trapped, and its unlikely a single life was lost because the FS didn't turn up in minutes.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 30 Mar 18 at 11:05
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Mind some of the FS mindset and process will have to change when they become medical first responders.
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Manchester attack where were the firefighters? - rtj70
