Non-motoring > TSB bank KYC Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Mapmaker Replies: 51

 TSB bank KYC - Mapmaker
To TSB to a pre-booked appointment register a power of attorney for some rubbish savings account with enough money in it to buy an old banger. “Make sure you bring a utility bill and your passport when you come.”

As at every other bank on the High Street, I took them my water bill.

No, we don't accept water bills, they're too subject to fraud. Telephone bills though. Thanks for telling me beforehand…

So I return with a certified telephone bill (certified copies of which I have sent to financial services firms by post without problem). There is no original as it is an online account so it isn’t really a certified copy, but nobody seems to notice… No, we can’t accept certified copies. Thanks for telling me beforehand that your procedures are completely different from everybody else’s.

So that that point they ‘kindly’ give me a copy of their instructions.

So I return with a really rubbish looking letter from HMRC that I could have knocked up in seconds on photoshop with a downloaded logo and courier. However, it works for their system so they accept it.

I don’t half feel sorry for people who have to administer KYC, it’s a dreadful job. But that was a bonkers procedure from the worst bank on the High Street.

When undertaking the same process at HSBC they kept me waiting 20 minutes whilst I quite happily read the newspaper and they insisted on sending me a bottle of wine by way of recompense. (Actually, that reminds me, it hasn’t turned up yet…)

/rant
 TSB bank KYC - sooty123
What's KYC?
 TSB bank KYC - smokie
Know Your Customer

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer
 TSB bank KYC - VxFan
>> What's KYC?

"Know Your Customer" according to Google.

EDIT beat me too it.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 14 Jun 18 at 12:40
 TSB bank KYC - sooty123
Cheers, makes sense now.
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
Various technology based KYC / Trust / Anti fraud processes for just this sort of thing have been mooted over the last 5 years to my knowledge. None of them have made it through to anything more than pilot use.
This is becoming an issue for all sorts of financial and Government organisation as the reliance on paper statements or paper bills is clearly inadequate and becoming more so by the day.

Identity cards are the most obvious answer but the political opposition to those is well known.
 TSB bank KYC - No FM2R
I have to carry an ID card here and in Brazil and in the US I have to carry photo ID.

It doesn't bother me and makes many things more simple. Would anybody here object to the UK having ID cards?

If so, what is the issue with them?
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
>> It doesn't bother me and makes many things more simple. Would anybody here object to
>> the UK having ID cards?
>>
>> If so, what is the issue with them?
>>
I have no problem with them at all

I believe it is inevitable unless somebody comes up with a certifiable mobile app which can be used as part of identification processes but the longer we out it off the harder it will be
 TSB bank KYC - sooty123
It doesn't bother me and makes many things more simple. Would anybody here object to
>> the UK having ID cards?

From last time (2000?) Very much so.

>> If so, what is the issue with them?
>>

Objections at the time ranged from cost over runs, big brother worries through to getting the cards to the right people and avoiding giving them to the wrong people.

Whereabouts in the us did you have to carry photo id?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 14 Jun 18 at 14:08
 TSB bank KYC - smokie
I believe you are usually expected to be carrying something everywhere in the US Sooty. My mate wasn't allowed in a bar in Nashville last year because he had no ID. (60+ year old...).

I guess not many people know that!
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
>> I believe you are usually expected to be carrying something everywhere in the US Sooty.
>> My mate wasn't allowed in a bar in Nashville last year because he had no
>> ID. (60+ year old...).
>>
IIRC you also have to carry your drivers license(sic) whenever you are driving in the US.
That is enough for ID in most places out there

No reason why it should not be adequate ID for most things in the UK. It would then be simple to build an ID check app, based on contact at the address on the licence perhaps, to satisfy most financial / government institutions. That would give you a huge user base fairly rapidly which would minimise the issues with the introduction of ID cards for people who don't drive.
 TSB bank KYC - sooty123
>> I believe you are usually expected to be carrying something everywhere in the US Sooty.
>> My mate wasn't allowed in a bar in Nashville last year because he had no
>> ID. (60+ year old...).
>>
>> I guess not many people know that!
>>

I knew that, I more thought there was a legal requirement in some places.
 TSB bank KYC - No FM2R
>> I knew that, I more thought there was a legal requirement in some places.

Not many. While driving or on military premises are the only two I can think of.

However, for all practical purposes you need to carry it. Life is an a*** without it.

There are so many circumstances under which you will need it that you couldn't possibly stand on your legal rights and refuse to carry it.

Well, I guess you could but it'd not let you lead a sensible life.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 14 Jun 18 at 15:50
 TSB bank KYC - No FM2R
Bars and the like you had to. Using credit cards quite often it was necessary. Using a bank. With Government agencies. Etc. Etc.

The rest of the time it was better to do so as it avoided difficulty.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 14 Jun 18 at 15:07
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
>> The rest of the time it was better to do so as it avoided difficulty.
>>
Exactly, there doen't need to be compulsion to carry an id card, if enough places

a accept it as full proof of ID, possibly with some other process such as a mobile app or letter
b use it in processes, credit handling, account setup etc., to make things more convenient in day to day life

you will get most people using it after a fairly brief period and non drivers looking for some valid equivalent
 TSB bank KYC - No FM2R
>>You will get most people using it after a fairly brief period and non drivers looking for some valid equivalent

In the US the DMV issued a non-driving licence for just that purpose.
 TSB bank KYC - Manatee
>> Various technology based KYC / Trust / Anti fraud processes for just this sort of
>> thing have been mooted over the last 5 years to my knowledge. None of them
>> have made it through to anything more than pilot use.

Are you sure about that? I've just taken two pensions. One required certified copies of passport and bank statement, the other was done (they said) by "electronic" means.

The big credit bureaux all provide this sort of service - there are so many data sources now that is almost certainly more reliable than documentary proof. Even the government now uses the verification services of Experian etc for online services.

I suspect there will always be a documentary fallback for those whose identity can't be established by other means.

Barclays are writing to me at the moment wanting proofs for me and the boss relating to our company account that they have had for 6 years (and for which we had to provide them when we opened it). Crackers.
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
Interesting, I haven't been directly involved in that area for 2-3 years as I have been on banking clients & NHS but it's the sort of thing I would have expected to see more about in the media if it was coming into general use.

 TSB bank KYC - Ambo
The French have long been suspicious over identify documents that do not bear a photo of the carrier, such as older style-UK drivers' licences. They themselves are given, via a parent or legal guardian, a "Carte Vitale" at birth which has a about 15 digits, referring to gender, date of birth and numerous other identifying metrics. At some stage it has to be updated with a photo. It is used for any social purpose such as identity checks by security forces, prescription dispensing, state benefits, hospital admissions etc.

I have no "Carte" but I do have the relevant number, as I receive French pensions and documents refer to it, but in over 20 years had not been sent it. I asked for the number latterly but was told by the pensions outfit could not provide it, for reasons of confidentiality. Kafkaesque or what?

The dangers of social control are present in any identity card system but in the UK we already have driver's licence, NHS, hospital, bus pass and numerous other numbers on record, so would a national identity card now make any real difference? After all, we all had them during WWII. I always remembered my own number (totally different from the present social security ones) and was able to use this to get back into the system after a long period abroad.
 TSB bank KYC - Ambo
It don't come easy...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/expat-health/8356547/French-health-care-great-if-you-can-get-it.html
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
>> The dangers of social control are present in any identity card system
>>
In my opinion if it is more convenient rather than compulsory a lot of the "social control" aspect surely disappears.

 TSB bank KYC - Zero
If it means you cant buy alcohol, get your benefits, get medical treatment and prescription, etc etc without one, then yes it does not be compulsory. If you ain't got one you get nowt.

Its time we had id cards.
 TSB bank KYC - CGNorwich
Possibly but it’s not the card as such that concerns me. Once we all have unique identification number there is the possibility to attach every bit of digital information to that number. In effect you have the possibility to build up a database on every individual in the country showing what they earn where they live, what they buy, what’s illnesses they have , in effect absolutely everything about them. I’m not sure we understand all the implications,
 TSB bank KYC - Bromptonaut
>> Possibly but it’s not the card as such that concerns me.

We already have a National Insurance Number. Mine was allocated 42 years ago to facilitate dealings with DHSS. I now need it for the electoral register, for my driving licence or for passports whether as applicant or witness. I'm supposed to request it from people wanting an income based social tariff for utility supplies.

So far as I'm aware there's no legislation making it a national identity number...
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
>> So far as I'm aware there's no legislation making it a national identity number...
>>
The capability already exists if the "authorities" want to to collate all of the data they want to. It is protected by safeguards now and there is no reason to expect that would happen if ID cards were introduced any more than it is now.
Last edited by: commerdriver on Thu 14 Jun 18 at 22:31
 TSB bank KYC - rtj70
A lot of that data is already collated about all of us by the credit scoring agencies without you needing to give consent.

So despite not being on the public electoral register, they will have your details. They know about all your bank accounts, credit agreements, mortgages, current and previous addresses, etc.
 TSB bank KYC - Zero
>> Possibly but it’s not the card as such that concerns me. Once we all have
>> unique identification number there is the possibility to attach every bit of digital information to
>> that number. In effect you have the possibility to build up a database on every
>> individual in the country showing what they earn where they live, what they buy, what’s
>> illnesses they have , in effect absolutely everything about them. I’m not sure we understand
>> all the implications,

Too late that horse has bolted, all you describe is in place already, just not all on one card.
 TSB bank KYC - Mapmaker
There is so much data out there, collated on computers by rating agencies and the like that the only difference from an id card system is that it is the poor member of the general public who can't keep track of everything.

 TSB bank KYC - Cliff Pope
An unstated assumption behind the movement for ID cards is that there would be a single method of identification for all purposes.
Is that really going to be true? Opening a bank account will just need the ID card - no requirement for passport, driving licence, the right kind of utility bill, etc?
So unlike all these other things, ID cards would be unfakeable and unstealable? It would be impossible for anyone ever to create duplicate identities using a different ID card?
 TSB bank KYC - Manatee
>> So unlike all these other things, ID cards would be unfakeable and unstealable? It would
>> be impossible for anyone ever to create duplicate identities using a different ID card?

That would be the idea.

Of course if you could successfully forge/get a card as a different person then you would be home and dry as far as personation fraud goes and the poor sod whose name was on it would have great difficulty proving it wasn't him.

The whole thing works much better if everybody is tracked at all times of course - so things like road toll passes, mobile numbers, travel tickets (your Oyster Card), credit cards would all be linked to the great database. That's the problem, a police state could then be implemented overnight.

And at some point it probably will be, in the name of national security of course.
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
It would be the single method of identification for most purposes, alcohol purchase etc. Secure use for banking or legal purposes could be done digitally very easily and much more securely than utility bills which are a joke as "proofs of identity" in 2018.

Faking and stealing are dependent on the care people take of them and the processes people follow when using them.
 TSB bank KYC - No FM2R
>>An unstated assumption behind the movement for ID cards is that there would be a single method of identification for all purposes

It is in Chile. Part of your records for the ID card are your finger prints. So for all normal activities then it's just your ID card. If particular security is required then its your ID card and fingerprint.

But sometimes just your finger print. For example the rooms on the edge of banks are accessed using a fingerprint scanner. Access to a club I am a member of is by finger print.

It makes life much easier.

I wouldn't be without one, though having said that it is already having an impact within the world of data collection. Though this is typically done by commercial companies after you give them your ID number, a la Tesco Clubcard approach.
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
>> There is so much data out there, collated on computers by rating agencies and the
>> like that the only difference from an id card system is that it is the
>> poor member of the general public who can't keep track of everything.
>>
Not to mention the other millions of members of the general public who have put at least as much of their data out there voluntarily and with much less control over it on social media
 TSB bank KYC - sherlock47
>>>It is in Chile. Part of your records for the ID card are your finger prints. So for all normal activities then it's just your ID card. If particular security is required then its your ID card and fingerprint.<<<


Is there yet a market place for amputated fingers? Retinal scans maybe a better solution - more difficult to remove as a whole? as long as they are also checked for working blood vessels.

Our scottish friend may have some better suggestions on unique aspects of parts of the anatomy - combined with a way of testing for life.
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Fri 15 Jun 18 at 12:18
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
somebody has seen too many movies.
There are ver very few situations in which you can use somebody else's fingerprint on an amputated finger without policemen getting involved. Can't see anyone using it for apple pay for example
 TSB bank KYC - Zero
>> somebody has seen too many movies.
>> There are ver very few situations in which you can use somebody else's fingerprint on
>> an amputated finger without policemen getting involved.

You forgot the episodes of NCIS where someone removed someones eyeball for the retina scan.
 TSB bank KYC - R.P.
Doesn't everyone have a Photocard Driving Licence these days ?
 TSB bank KYC - CGNorwich
No for some reason some cling to their tattered piece of green paper. When you think of it we would all be better microchipped like a dog or cat. Could all be scanned then.
 TSB bank KYC - Manatee
>> No for some reason some cling to their tattered piece of green paper. When you
>> think of it we would all be better microchipped like a dog or cat. Could
>> all be scanned then.

Don't fancy that. They move around apparently, so a vet was telling me;)
 TSB bank KYC - MD
And I learnt last week from a very respected dog trainer that one can buy a reader off of the bay and the dog nappers Just nick them out..
 TSB bank KYC - Zero
>> And I learnt last week from a very respected dog trainer that one can buy
>> a reader off of the bay and the dog nappers Just nick them out..

he's been leading you down the garden path by your collar me ole son.

Anyone can get a reader sure, it will read the chip, but it wont tell you exactly where it is, they are small and digging around in the neck is going to leave tell tale wounds.

Most dog nappers dont care about the chip, it wont get read till further down the line, and they are long gone by then.
 TSB bank KYC - sooty123
>> Doesn't everyone have a Photocard Driving Licence these days ?
>>

No quite a few on here still have them.
 TSB bank KYC - VxFan
>> Doesn't everyone have a Photocard Driving Licence these days ?

Non drivers don't ;)
 TSB bank KYC - rtj70
Do you classify someone with a provisional licence as a driver or non-driver?
 TSB bank KYC - Mapmaker
Well, TSB are still quiet on this front, nothing from them, pushing three weeks on.

The man from Santander filled out the form and sent it off. It reappeared on my front doorstep two weeks later with a request to provide details of job, which had been missed off by the man, and is doubtless only so that they know how to target additional junk mail; it certainly isn't a statutory requirement.

Computershare wouldn't accept a properly certified power of attorney as it had to be done 'their way' with the solicitor's stamp on each page. The solicitor had no stamp, so I spent a tenner at vistaprint and got one made. Hope they're happy now.

HSBC took a month, five meetings and two long telephone calls (and a blazing row where I stood in the crowded branch and shouted at somebody detailing the previous pointless meetings and that I'd been told to turn up at that point; when I turned up the following day I was expected and treated like royalty) to make it work. That promised bottle of wine never turned up. And I've got to wait another three weeks for internet banking access.

Lloyds have now taken six weeks and four requests to supply a PIN.

Skipton were OK. But as well as a bank account there was an ISA. So the Skipton ISA people wrote to tell me that I would have to go through the KYC process all over again as they couldn't accept the photocopy that Skipton BANK had on their file already (the photocopy that Skipton had taken of my original copy).

Hargreaves Lansdown dealt with the whole process within 48 hours.
 TSB bank KYC - Mapmaker
I received from TSB today - so FOUR months later - confirmation that the power of attorney had been registered. Blimmin lucky that it wasn't an important bank account... How hopeless.
 TSB bank KYC - Dulwich Estate II
. . . . and the wine ?
 TSB bank KYC - rtj70
Quicker way to access bank accounts (especially for current account) is third party access. I have that for my father in laws accounts. It helps we're both with Barclays with online banking. I log on to the online banking website and I have an option to switch customer to see his accounts.
 TSB bank KYC - commerdriver
>> Quicker way to access bank accounts (especially for current account) is third party access.
>>
Do you mean some sort of official access RTJ?

I had online access to my late mother's bank accounts as she got older after my father had died but we basically never mentioned it to the bank.

They did get a bit uppity when my sister reminded her of her pin in the branch on one occasion.

My mother was like many of her generation, she dealt with cash, Dad did all the baking.
 TSB bank KYC - rtj70
>> Do you mean some sort of official access RTJ?

Absolutely. Had to sign forms at the bank with father in law etc. It helped that I was also a Barclays customer so could prove who I was and his online banking was linked to mine. I have my own bank card and could request a cheque book in my name too if I needed it.

I tend to just transfer to my account to sort out paying bills. We do all his shopping for food etc. too. I have an itemised list of everything I have spent for him going back nearly 4 years.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 16 Oct 18 at 18:07
 TSB bank KYC - Bromptonaut
>> Absolutely. Had to sign forms at the bank with father in law etc.

Mrs B had similar with her Mother bit it wasn't a universal panacea.

There were occasions using phone banking where they both had same surname and first forename Elizabeth was useful. Mother was never known by that name but rather as Ann. But the bank staff didn't know......
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 16 Oct 18 at 20:38
 TSB bank KYC - Mapmaker
>> . . . . and the wine ?

Wouldn't have been very nice anyway. ;o
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