Non-motoring > Extinction Rebellion Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Kevin Replies: 76

 Extinction Rebellion - Kevin
What the heck is going on here? A bunch of loonies can cause serious disruption to central London and plod just lets them carry on? They can openly conspire on social media to bring Heathrow to a standstill and they haven't been locked up?

[Shakes head...]
 Extinction Rebellion - Bromptonaut
Alternative point of view is that it's a legitimate protest based on sound science.

At what point does legitimate protest protest cross the line of legality?
 Extinction Rebellion - Zero
>> Alternative point of view is that it's a legitimate protest based on sound science.
>>
>> At what point does legitimate protest protest cross the line of legality?

Climbing on trains is a good example, it is life threatening.
 Extinction Rebellion - Bromptonaut
>> Climbing on trains is a good example, it is life threatening.

And I believe those who did are in custody.

Using the interconnect cables as ladders up side of a Pendolino or Azuma is too dangerous to be a sport.

OTOH on top of a DLR train is about as risky as being on roof of a bus.
 Extinction Rebellion - Zero
>> OTOH on top of a DLR train is about as risky as being on roof
>> of a bus.

They didn't isolate the train traction system and confirm prevention of near line running, jumping on the roof of an unprepared train, section of line and platform full of people is dangerous on any adjacent digits,
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 18 Apr 19 at 21:34
 Extinction Rebellion - Zero
Quote from a popular newspaper.



Emma Thompson arrived at Marble Arch yesterday afternoon to support climate change protesters and urged others to join their numbers.

What she might not have mentioned to them is that she had just flown back to Heathrow Airport from Los Angeles the day before.

Many of the protesters have demanded that the Government limit how many times individuals can fly each year.

Extinction Rebellion ringleader Robin Boardman-Pattison declared during a television interview this week that flying ‘should only be used in emergencies’ – despite his own apparently extensive travels.
 Extinction Rebellion - sooty123
> Extinction Rebellion ringleader Robin Boardman-Pattison declared during a television interview this week that flying ‘should
>> only be used in emergencies’ – despite his own apparently extensive travels.
>>

I'd guess he'd argue that this is an emergency?
 Extinction Rebellion - No FM2R
>> > Extinction Rebellion ringleader Robin Boardman-Pattison declared during a television
>> interview this week that flying
>> ‘should only be used in emergencies’ – despite his own apparently extensive travels.
>
>
> I'd guess he'd argue that this is an emergency?


Of course. Their expertise is what *other* people should do.
 Extinction Rebellion - sooty123
A representative of Dame Emma said she needed to take the 5,400-mile flight home to London after working in LA.

www.itv.com/news/2019-04-19/activists-stage-climate-change-protest-at-heathrow-airport/
 Extinction Rebellion - neiltoo
>> A representative of Dame Emma said she needed to take the 5,400-mile flight home to
>> London after working in LA.
>>

I understood she was celebrating her 60th birthday with her husband Greg Wise.
I don't object to this, just the hypocracy.
 Extinction Rebellion - Crankcase
In the same way as my eyes read "shop fitting" and my brain says "shop lifting", when I see "Dame Emma" it comes across as "Dame Edna".

Given there is a giant pink boat involved maybe my brain has it right after all.
 Extinction Rebellion - Kevin
>At what point does legitimate protest protest cross the line of legality?

Thank Glub all of us in the UK have the right for peaceful protest but let me bounce your question back to you Bromp.

When does the right of a small number of fruitcakes surpass that of the larger public's right to go about their daily business without hinderance?
 Extinction Rebellion - Bromptonaut
>> When does the right of a small number of fruitcakes surpass that of the larger
>> public's right to go about their daily business without hinderance?

Why fruitcakes? Do you doubt the science or just the method of protest?

It's not that difficult to avoid Oxford Circus, Parliament Square or Marble Arch still less to use Blackfriars, Westminster or Southwark Bridges as alternative to Waterloo.

The aim is to garner publicity; the hindrance to the public isn't really that great.

If they'd blocked M1 @ J19 and Euston and KX mainlines while occupying runways at Heathrow and Gatwick then law enforcement might need to go in heavy handed.

Right now Sajid Javid's call for full force of law looks like political posturing from a wannabee PM.

Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 19 Apr 19 at 22:34
 Extinction Rebellion - smokie
I expect you'd say they would say that anyway, but the Met tweeted

"The serious disruption the demonstrations are causing to people in London and beyond is unacceptable and we completely understand the concern it is causing to those who are disrupted by it"

That's from a Beeb article today. I gathered from TfL site during the week that bus services have been quite disrupted, and heard that an effect of that was that people left buses to use taxis which worsened the problem.

I think I said previously I am all for a bit of demonstration and protest, and I am becoming more sympathetic to the cause since watching the show I previously mentioned, but to cause such disruption on a continuing basis is not acceptable.



 Extinction Rebellion - Zero
>> Alternative point of view is that it's a legitimate protest based on sound science.
>>
>> At what point does legitimate protest protest cross the line of legality?

About the time of Donald Trumps state visit I would think is when it becomes justified and legitimate
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 23 Apr 19 at 18:53
 Extinction Rebellion - Bromptonaut
>> About the time of Donald Trumps state visit I would think is when it becomes
>> justified and legitimate

You going to stand on the Mall and moon at him?
 Extinction Rebellion - tyrednemotional
....he'll just get his bag out......
 Extinction Rebellion - Zero
Throw it at him. "There you go Donny boy, tweet about that"
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 23 Apr 19 at 20:22
 Extinction Rebellion - No FM2R
Being an inconsiderate obsessed t*** is mostly not against the law.

Better than than oppression, I guess.
 Extinction Rebellion - Bromptonaut
A few days of rain....

Unless of course they're right and summer lasts until October.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 18 Apr 19 at 21:01
 Extinction Rebellion - Zero
Their cause is worthy, their methods are counter productive, probably garnering more public hostility than support. Stopping mass public transport that gets pollution causing cars off the road for example was ridiculous.

As it happens the Uk is doing not badly for the climate change cause, they should be directing their hostility at those who are less on board. Trump, China and Germany for example.
 Extinction Rebellion - bathtub tom
SWMBO asked a pertinent question: I wonder how they traveled there?
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Thu 18 Apr 19 at 22:49
 Extinction Rebellion - smokie
Just caught the last half of a programme on climate change on BBC4. I'm not sure how to describe it but it actually conveyed a fairly sobering message to me.

It's here. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pft7f

The sequence which made me sit up starts at about 1:13:25 with a bloke who is trying to get a planning consent through for renewable energy - 9 wind turbines. He failed, in the face of opposition from a load of (mainly old and well-heeled looking) protesting climate change denyers. And the smug woman interviewed afterwards... geez. As they say, it was soundly rejected because it would "spoil the view".

Then the immediately following sequence which shows real recent effects of climate change, and a look into the future.

I think we may have some of the denying codgers here on our forum... :-)

I don't really agree with any protest causing the level of disruption which this one is, but the programme does point out that the politicians need this kind of shock tactic before they start to listen and consider action, and action on climate change is needed now, not in a years time.
 Green Energy - zippy
A client asked me for a loan for a biomass generator. Clever bit of kit, basically a power station in a shipping container. Farm waste goes in to it and it produces electricity which is flogged to the National Grid.

He purchased said bit of kit from importer B (who got a mate of mine at another bank for a loan on it).

And my client then sold it to farmer C (who asked a another bank for a loan on it).

The damn thing was financed thrice!!!

Good businesses this green game.

What's more, B and C were actually two companies with the same directors.
 Green Energy - Roger.
www.conservativewoman.co.uk/climate-change-the-fake-news-from-attenborough/
 Green Energy - CGNorwich
A load of pseudo scientific bilge.

Do you make any effort to check this stuff?

Let’s take one of the first statements made:

“ But he fails to explain why temperatures rose sharply in the early 20th century, long before CO2 emissions began to rise significantly”

Actually annual global CO2 emissions trebled between 1900 and 1950. I would say that was significant. A quick google will provide the figures. Make a bit of effort.

 Green Energy - car4play
>>Actually annual global CO2 emissions trebled between 1900 and 1950. I would say that was significant. A quick google will provide the figures. Make a bit of effort.

around 15 ppm rise in atm CO2 that period and about 0.4 degrees followed by about 3 decades of cooling from 1950 onwards. Over 100 ppm rise overall.

I buy the climate is changing thing and we are contributing. Just don't buy the complete demonisation of CO2. It has an effect for sure. I just don't think the lever is that good. i.e. it isn't the major driver - if at all. It may well be that temperature is what drives CO2, not the other way around...
 Green Energy - Manatee
I just don't think the
>> lever is that good. i.e. it isn't the major driver - if at all. It
>> may well be that temperature is what drives CO2, not the other way around...

If we accept that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, which is the putative mechanism (i.e. it is not just an observed correlation) then it's possibly both. But intuitively (i.e. I am not a plantologist) if higher temperatures make plants grow more overall, then CO2 takeup will rise and provide some mitigation.

Quite possible that other factors than CO2 both consequent and independent of human activity are resulting in higher temperatures, but that does not of itself make mean that our contribution, if there is one, should not be reduced. In fact, anything we can do to reduce warming is even more important.

But the thing we need to get is surely that we cannot afford to be wrong if we do nothing.

Frankly I am appalled by the vox pop deniers' arguments I come across - "there have always been warm periods and cold periods", "something will turn up, it always has before", "human ingenuity will create new energy sources/find a way to fix it" etc.

Relying on exponential economic growth and expecting any kind of sustainability is lunacy, yet that seems to be the policy of nearly all governments. Even 2% average growth will double consumption in c. 35 years. If that isn't 'denial' I don't know what is.
 Green Energy - car4play
The scientific argument though has got very muddied by what appears to be an underlying political agenda. Falsification of data to fit a narrative hasn’t helped the scientific cause.
Facts, the ability to check presuppositions, hold alternate views etc. has largely been demonised.
Whereas the argument is much more nuanced than that.
I mean let’s hypothetically suppose the lever any increase in co2 exerts is 1% of the effect of global warming. Are all the “green” initiatives proposed worth bankrupting countries or worse preventing the developing world developing?
If you had one dollar to spend improving the world would climate change action be in your top ten causes? Actually a danish study has just been completed on this very issue. And no. Co2 emissions were not in their top ten.
The irony of course is that few people are as “green” as me. 8KW of solar electric, 10Kw solar water, top insulation, electric /hybrid cars, own vegetables, hydroponic tech etc.
The world has become too binary in terms of how we argue or think imho.
 Green Energy - Manatee

>> The world has become too binary in terms of how we argue or think imho.

Most definitely. And some good questions, asked and implied.
 Green Energy - No FM2R
Believing in something, studying evidence and understanding it, and then prioritising appropriate effort and resources into correcting it is one thing.

Pretending it doesn't exist is another.
 Green Energy - car4play
As a bit of fun here is an example of the subconscious use of presenting data in a manner to promote the narrative that global warming is a very recent problem :
www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-temperature

Note that by zeroing the data at 1950 and colouring everything blue below the line (implying cold) and everything above red (implying hot) they effectively use the same data to imply that hearing only occurred since 1970. (Because 1940-1970 is really a cooling period).
The whole chunk before 1940 is implied to be cold!
... the subtle use of psychology to promote a message...
 Green Energy - Zero
We could have laid money you were a climate change denier, you going to be waving your union jack and prostrating yourself at the feet of your hero Sir Trump when he comes?
 Green Energy - smokie
I am definitely not a denier, actually far from it, but the article is interesting in that it offers apparently authoritative alternative views on many of the indicators. I'll read it properly when I have some time, and explore whether the facts seem to stand up (as far as I am able and willing!).
 Green Energy - Zero
That climate change has always happened and always will is a given. That earth events have influenced that and always will is a given.

That man has influenced climate change, at increased rates is a given. As he has, he can decrease that influence.

Its that last rather important differentiator that climate change deniers always leave out. Usually because it offends their dogma or finances.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 23 Apr 19 at 14:11
 Green Energy - Bromptonaut
Only skimmed Rog's article but this assertion jumped oout:

milder winters will simply offset hotter summers

Utter, utter tosh. Together they represent a net rise in average temperature. Exactly the thing we are concerned about.

 Green Energy - Zero
>> Only skimmed Rog's article but this assertion jumped oout:
>>
>> milder winters will simply offset hotter summers
>>
>> Utter, utter tosh. Together they represent a net rise in average temperature. Exactly the thing
>> we are concerned about.
>>

Deniers have two arguments. 1/ Its not happening or 2/ if it does its not a bad thing.
 Green Energy - CGNorwich
It is interesting how the far right live in a world where it is belief that counts not facts or anything verifiable. Evidence based argument is futile. They have a set of beliefs and it is impossible to convince them that they are wrong. The ravings of some idiot on the Internet are to them as valid as years of evidence based scientific research. It’s all a plot by a “liberal metropolitan elite”
 Green Energy - No FM2R
And this supposedly expert and scientific piece was written by....

"Paul Homewood [who] is a former accountant who blogs about climate change".

FFS. Why is it that anything written on the internet is always taken as gospel, never challenged and every tiny comment accepted as scientific fact, unless it was written by a scientist or someone who actually knows the subject in which case it's conspiracy.

I cannot look at or read anything without wondering about the truth behind it, whether or not I agree with it. How much easier life must be if you don't care about truth and just seek stuff you like.
 Green Energy - No FM2R
I've just been browsing the comments. I genuinely find it worrying that such people exist, so many of them, and that they find each other so reasonable.

According to one particular genius the rise in sea level is actually due to all the ships in the sea now. Dear God.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 23 Apr 19 at 16:09
 Green Energy - Zero
>> I've just been browsing the comments. I genuinely find it worrying that such people exist,
>> so many of them, and that they find each other so reasonable.
>>
>> According to one particular genius the rise in sea level is actually due to all
>> the ships in the sea now. Dear God.

Yeah well, ferries leave and enter port at set schedules, and he tides have set schedules.
 Green Energy - No FM2R
You're so clueless. There's two ferries and they go in opposite directions so they balance. That's why the sea is all choppy rather than flowing in one direction smoothly and neatly.
 Green Energy - Zero
So why dies the tide vary in different times round the coast? hmmm? Its leaving and entering port I tell you
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 23 Apr 19 at 16:35
 Green Energy - tyrednemotional
...it's actually all down to the flushing of toilets, the timing of (the bulk of) which travels round the globe with daylight, and as you reach the point of "peak-flush" around the world, the surge of water causes the tide to rise.

The same phenomenon (the rise of the flush toilet) is also responsible for the general rise in sea-level globally.

(and that answer contains about as much s*** as the article in question).
 Green Energy - smokie
That theory stinks!!
 Green Energy - zippy
>> I've just been browsing the comments. I genuinely find it worrying that such people exist,
>> so many of them, and that they find each other so reasonable.
>>
>> According to one particular genius the rise in sea level is actually due to all
>> the ships in the sea now. Dear God.
>>

You'll be telling us that the world is a globe next!

When I look at the sea I can see that it is flat and therefore the world is flat.

The global world theory is put in place by the Libtrard elite to keep us all in our place.

 Green Energy - No FM2R
The Flat Earth Society has supporters all around the world.

S'b***** obvious. If it was a globe the sea would fall off.
 Green Energy - Zero
>
>> When I look at the sea I can see that it is flat and therefore
>> the world is flat.

with my own eyes I have seen the curvature of the earth, its ruddy obvious its a dish or bowl
 Green Energy - tyrednemotional
>> I have seen the curvature of the earth, its ruddy obvious its a dish or bowl
>>

...carried on the back of a giant turtle......
 Green Energy - zippy
Just look at the con-trails from aircraft.

If the world was a globe then the con-trails would be arcs in the sky.

Con-trails are also a plot by the same Libtard elite to spray chemicals on us that keep us servile.

Last edited by: zippy on Tue 23 Apr 19 at 17:38
 Green Energy - Zero

>> Con-trails are also a plot by the same Libtard elite to spray chemicals on us
>> that keep us servile.

Wrong again, in the words of the Supreme Leader of the DPRK, you are all dotards.

The contrails are cloud seeding, to create downpours, part of the global hoax of global warming created by the left leaning apologetic liberals. Why has this hoax been created? to divert attention from the destruction of our white christian society, and crippling our technological, industrial and economic leadership advantages under WTO rules.
 Green Energy - bathtub tom
>> >> I have seen the curvature of the earth, its ruddy obvious its a dish
>> or bowl
>> ...carried on the back of a giant turtle......

Your memory fails you, It's standing on the back of four giant elephants that are shouldered by the giant turtle - The Great A'Tuin.




I'm sure others will correct this grammatically, but I can't be bothered to look up the accurate description.
 Green Energy - No FM2R
An alternative view is that if the world were truly flat then the cats would have pushed everything off it by now.
 Green Energy - Crankcase
>> An alternative view is that if the world were truly flat then the cats would
>> have pushed everything off it by now.


As a side note, the neighbours have a cat. I think its name is "cooking fat" but I may have misheard.
 Extinction Rebellion - Fullchat
The Presidential motorcade should get The Greens blood pressure up when he visits:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_8u_EmkXw
Last edited by: Fullchat on Tue 23 Apr 19 at 19:23
 Extinction Rebellion - smokie
Blimey! I've often seen Royalty on the M4, I'm assuming usually Chas going to or from his place in Wiltshire but also seen motorcades between Windsor and London.

I think the last one I saw, about a week ago, had about 8 motorbikes up front - three were a long way ahead - followed by maybe three or four Range Rover type things and that's about it. Blink and you'd miss it!
 Extinction Rebellion - No FM2R
Now that is someone seriously compensating....
 Extinction Rebellion - sooty123
That's madness. If that doesn't get people worked up his air fleet that'll carry him and all his kit will.
 Extinction Rebellion - sooty123
I saw few pictures on the state of the roads and parks that the protesters had used. I'm not sure if they were true but if they are representative of the mess left behind they are messy lot to say the least. Looked like after a festival, plastic bottles everywhere.
 Extinction Rebellion - smokie
To be fair the place probably wasn't kitted out with adequate bins or black sacks. OK it looked a mess but the pics I saw it didn't look that bad really, given the number of people and the circumstances etc.
 Extinction Rebellion - sooty123
Bin it or take it home. For a group wanting to show how everyone should be making big changes to their lifestyles that many of them can't even do the basics of not littering says something doesn't it. Or at least it does to me.
 Extinction Rebellion - No FM2R
If it is genuine, and it may well not have been, I think the point is that they were using single-use plastics, not that they were throwing them on the floor.
 Extinction Rebellion - smokie
Oh yes, good point!
 Extinction Rebellion - Ambo
As any Malay will tell you, tides are created by a giant crab, which sits in the navel of the globe. When it heaves itself out it leaves a space for the water to rush in, hence lowering the level.

 Extinction Rebellion - Zero
Sounds eminently reasonable to me.
 Extinction Rebellion - CGNorwich
Actually when you compare it with an explanation involving a mysterious force that pervades the universe emanating from a massive lump of rock that is circling the Earth and pulling the oceans out of place it seems very reasonable.
 Extinction Rebellion - No FM2R
Similar to why people prefer stories about the Sky Fairy to explanations of evolution.

But nobody ever tells you where the giant crab, or turtle, comes from.
 Extinction Rebellion - CGNorwich
like all the best crabs it comes from Cromer.
 Extinction Rebellion - No FM2R
It's why I hang around here, to learn stuff from the clever people. I thought they came from Iceland.

 Extinction Rebellion - Zero
The last time I caught crabs it wasn't from Iceland or Cromer. Or even Iceland in Cromer.
 Extinction Rebellion - No FM2R
It was probably from that woman standing outside Iceland in Cromer.
 Extinction Rebellion - Ambo
Cromer crabs used to be sold from fishermen's open front room windows, where they were displayed on tables brought up to the sill. They were sold fresh, meaning that they did not have their flavour removed by prolonged contact with a fridge, as was the case with the last ones I tried. (The same fate suffered by the wares at the formerly excellent harbourside shellfish stall at Wells.)
 Extinction Rebellion - Ambo
>>The last time I caught crabs....

Difficult to get rid of, I believe. An old planters' remedy was to kill them off by sousing them in bay rum.
 Extinction Rebellion - Roger.
Here's something more for you "right-on" folks to sneer at!

www.conservativewoman.co.uk/readers-comment-special-the-ignorance-and-arrogance-of-st-greta/
 Extinction Rebellion - No FM2R
In this case I assume "right-on" means "those who find Conservative Woman and it's minions laughable"?
 Extinction Rebellion - Zero
You go out of your way to make yourself a sneerable target. The depths and efforts you go to, routing out stuff to try and validate your extreme views is remarkable

Bit sad really at the end of the day
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 26 Apr 19 at 14:50
 Extinction Rebellion - zippy
Old geezer mate of mine is a professional cynic and conspiracy theory nut.

He is also a keen gardener and grow your own enthusiast and has been since his 20s. He's well in to his 80s now and is certainly Conservative by nature.

He has kept garden temperature records for much of his gardening life and has plotted them out on graph paper.

There are yearly fluctuations but the overall trend is upwards and he is convinced of global warming.

(Same house from birth - inherited it from his parents and never felt the urge to move - mind you, if I owned it, I wouldn't want to either - it's very nice.)
Latest Forum Posts