Non-motoring > Public Spaces Protection Orders Miscellaneous
Thread Author: smokie Replies: 29

 Public Spaces Protection Orders - smokie
The Beeb is reporting a "Huge increase in Public Spaces Protection Order fines"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47982434

I'd not heard of PSPOs before but I see "Liberal Democrat peer Lord Tim Clement-Jones said: "The shocking rise in petty PSPOs and fines means that thousands of people are being punished for entirely innocuous actions."

I doubt he's alone in this view, but they seem quite a good idea to me. For instance Peterborough, which seems to be an avid user, have issued "1,533 for "unauthorised cycling" in 2018, 861 for spitting, and 13 for "failure to disperse".
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - R.P.
Most of the six counties of north Wales have had these in place and contracted Kingdom Security to enforce. The enforcement techniques were questionable and a concerted public campaign saw contracts cancelled or not renewed or withdrawn by LAs.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - sherlock47
Issued - but how many paid?


Can somebody comment on who , other than uniformed police, can demand your full ID to force you to identify yourself?
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - R.P.
What they were doing in this area was following the miscreant to their car/house or until the Police attended around here. I'm sure the employees were decent people but there were some dodgy practises employed to catch people which I'm sure were in breach of RIPA had they been challenged.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - sooty123
Can somebody comment on who , other than uniformed police, can demand your full ID
>> to force you to identify yourself?
>>

All manner of local enforcement people for minor offences, littering, dog waste etc. You can be fined for not giving your details.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - sooty123
Probably people enforcing bylaws as well.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - sherlock47
>>>All manner of local enforcement people for minor offences, littering, dog waste etc. You can be fined for not giving your details. <<<

But how do they fine you if not ID'd?


Do they have powers of detention?
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - R.P.
No. You just walk away, they'll follow you and film you to your house or car - Hadn't they have disappeared from n Wales I would have been inclined to write to whatever council and ask for a copy of the RIPA authority, I think they would have been struggling with that one. Having seen some of the footage on the 'net I think that the employees (they're not Officers much as they like to think they are) are mostly poorly paid and depend on bonuses - I would imagine that they must be generally on the lower scale of ability - would be great to have a day in Court with them and run rings around them. It rips my knitting to think that local authorities have given contracts out to private companies of such low repute. It's come back to haunt the six in north Wales, democracy actually prevailed and local councillors had clearly had enough of them
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - smokie
So Rob you are OK with people gobbing and littering everywhere and you enjoy belittling lesser individuals?

Not how I imagined you really... :-)
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - R.P.
No I'm not but part of the reasons that at least one authority ditched them was that all the tickets issued were for dog pooh and none for the other matters that they were engaged for. I'm all for enforcement - sometimes it's the only language people understand, but I'm also overwhelmingly for fairness, accountability, due process and not picking on easy targets such as vulnerable individuals or loitering on private land where they haven't been invited to enter and the fact that these characters were hiding in bushes and behind cars to catch people, also when you're confronted with one particular authority who seem to think its ok to litter verges on bin collection days without care or attention to detail, that annoys the hell out of me. Some of the six have moved. I didn't mean to sound belittling :-)
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - sooty123
But how do they fine you if not ID'd?

Clearly they can't. They could well ring the police, of course they may turn up or not.

Although probably best not to litter etc in the first place.

>>
>> Do they have powers of detention?
>>

No more than any person in the street.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 19 Apr 19 at 17:03
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - CGNorwich
One of the problems problem facing our society is one of increasing contempt for any rules and regulations and the belief that you are entitled to do what your want regardless of the effect that it has on others.

Activities like littering, vandalism dog fouling, anti social behaviour, drinking in public places, graffiti degrade the quality of life for us all not least the poor but somehow as soon as someone is admonished or fined for such activities the papers are full of talk about "jobsworths' and petty bureaucracy.

Apart from the lack of police on our streets we no longer have the minor authority figures that once existed. Bus conductors , park keepers, train guards car park attendants, parking wardens etc all contributed to the general feeling of safety. Nearly all now sadly gone.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - R.P.
What CG says !
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - No FM2R
Ditto indeed.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - Zero

>> Activities like littering, vandalism dog fouling, anti social behaviour, drinking in public places, graffiti degrade
>> the quality of life for us all

Interesting side bar. Banksy. Art or Graffiti?
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - CGNorwich
If it’s on someone else’s property it’s criminal damage..
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - No FM2R
Arrogant vandalism.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - MD
I'm with CG for once. Well said.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - sooty123
Looks like alot of stuff the police used to enforce but now can't or won't.
Now doubt all this enforcement has been brought on by locals complaining that no one looks into lower level stuff anymore.

There's always a clash between ideas on this sort of thing, for everyone who thinks it's all jobsworth petty nonsense there's plenty that think it's people doing as they please with no thought to others.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - Bromptonaut
We have litter officers in Northampton. If they catch you dropping litter they will want details and ID. Police or Police CEO's are called in event of refusal.

One of my much younger colleagues talked herself out of a fine for dropping a fag end by lying about her age. She was 18/19 at time but claimed to be only 17. Got away with it.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - smokie
You've reminded me I got fined in Edinburgh years ago (2011 I think) for a fag end. It was at Fringe time, when the streets are littered with discarded flyers too... I did have a bit of a moan to the guys but went and paid the £70 straight away.

Not done the same since. Mind you, I stopped a smoking maybe five years ago :-)
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - Zero
>> We have litter officers in Northampton. If they catch you dropping litter they will want
>> details and ID. Police or Police CEO's are called in event of refusal.

Well they cant detain you to wait for the arrival of police, so its "no comment - adios and goodbye fella"
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 19 Apr 19 at 16:20
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - zippy
These things tend to have far reaching scope.

A couple recently got one banning them from looking at a neighbor's house which was built in front of theirs taking away their view of the beach and even walking past it to get to the beach.

The couple had the temerity to complain to the council about the planning consent.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - CGNorwich
Any source to corroborate and expand on that?
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - bathtub tom
I was at a popular large supermarket the other day and watched a young girl, who I presumed was with her mum, pick a receipt out of the trolley and throw it on the floor. I spoke up and said: "shall I pick that up for you?" The older female said "I was just about to". My response was "I wasn't speaking to you".
SWMBO reckons I'll get a slap one day!
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - CGNorwich
i think she may be right ;-)
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - zippy
>> Any source to corroborate and expand on that?
>>

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5895799/Couple-hit-banned-looking-neighbours-windows-Asbo.html
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - Lygonos
Source?

Ho ho ho.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - Bromptonaut
>> The couple had the temerity to complain to the council about the planning consent.

The report in The Mail has to be treated with due caution but it does contain the text of the letter sent to the couple concerned. On basis of restrictions I'd suggest their behaviour may have gone beyond complaining about Planning Permission.

The legislation is here:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/12/part/4/enacted

So far as one can infer from the report no Community Protection Notice has been served, just that over a year ago the Jacklins were given 'pre-notice' that a Community Protection Order may be sought.

It is though very worrying that such a notice can be made by a Police Officer without a Judge or Magistrate being involved.

The new building doesn't seem to be any taller than the derelict eyesore that was there before so it's not clear what loss of amenity the JAcklin's have suffered.
 Public Spaces Protection Orders - No FM2R
The Jacklins are obviously a complete nightmare. And I'd guess the letter is trying to prevent them doing stuff they've already been doing.

b***** idiots.
Latest Forum Posts