As a nipper, I remember my Mum stitching leather elbow patches onto an old jacket of mine. It wasn’t allowed on school blazers ! My old Man used to give me a hard slap on the back of my head if he ever caught me with my elbows on a table, or anything else, so I really didn’t see the point of them.
More recently I’ve seen various generations with patches on long sleeve shirts ( obviously not short sleeve shirts doh). Not add ons but part of the original article. Looks broody stupid to me. What’s that all about then ? They’ve obviously never gone through the slap on head phase if it’s to stop the elbows wearing through, but as a fashion accessory?
Bit like this ongoing fashion for torn jeans, as worn by most generations. The holes in the knees of my old denims are through old age, hard graft and being too tight to buy a new pair of workwear.
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I've never had leather patches, although I've often quite fancied them.
As far as I can recall, I've never worn the elbows out of anything though, jacket or shirt.
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>> As far as I can recall, I've never worn the elbows out of anything though,
>> jacket or shirt.
Lots of us come from the "slap on the back of the head" generation, supposedly to stop lots of awful things happening, things we now know were a load of old rhubarb
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 5 May 19 at 20:19
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A Gentleman always takes his weight on his elbows, hence the patches.
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>> A Gentleman always takes his weight on his elbows, hence the patches.
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Must be rather awkward when walking.
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>> >> A Gentleman always takes his weight on his elbows, hence the patches.
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>> Must be rather awkward when walking.
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I do not think he was referring to walking :)
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I was never hit, by my Father or my Grandfather, despite coming from a time and place when it would have been acceptable.
I was once hit by the headmaster though. Just the once mind, he decided against the second time.
That said, goodness knows "no elbows on the table", "food to mouth, not mouth to food", "don't make a noise with your cutlery" and so many more were absolutely hammered into me. I still stick to the rules I was taught, mostly anyway. Interestingly so do my daughters.
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IIRC they were a teacher thing.
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Mrs. Ambo sewed then on to my elbow-worn but otherwise serviceable cardigan. If you need some, go for leather. The plastic variety have stitch holes too far from the edge.
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>> IIRC they were a teacher thing.
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....yeah; at it like rabbits in that staff-room......
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Nope. Maybe a gentleman takes his jacket off though
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In addition to the elbow patches there were sometimes matching edge trims to the cuffs. Matching cuffs are now a rarity.
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A clip back of lug never did anyone any harm, it saved a thousand arguments and taught respect, something most modern youths totally NEED nowadays! - The "Do-Gooders" have created a "monster" generation, we are now reaping what they have sown, ask any Fire-fighter or Ambulance driver.
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>>and taught respect,
b******s. It taught fear, or even that hitting is ok if you're bigger. It did not teach respect.
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B******s yourself. Have to disagree on this one. Despite being slapped across the back of ‘ed my father and I were best mates. Aged 9+ we had annual days and weekends away...leaving my mother and younger brother at home. Grasmere Sports, hound trailing, shooting and fishing with him in Galloway in my early teens. Driving his car around supermarket car parks aged 12 on Sunday mornings.
Died when I was 21. I don’t regret one slap across the back of my head as it taught me table manners. A lesson quickly learnt.
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I learned table manners, excellent ones. I was never slapped across the back of the head. My Father and I remain excellent friends, despite disagreeing on many things and talk most days. I'm sorry you have not had that opportunity.
Had he relied on beating me to teach me things, I would have been deeply resentful and it would have ended sadly.
Do you believe your Father and you would have been less good mates if he had not slapped you?
I was never taught to fear my Father, or his fist. I was taught to respect him. I have never understood why people believe the two are inextricably linked.
I have never relied on beating my daughters to teach them things., They seem to have learned anyway.
If you do rely on beating your children to teach them things, what happens one day when they are bigger, stronger and fitter than you? Is that when you start to learn? Like payback?
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It was a quick slap on the back of the head for putting my elbows on the table. FFS I was never fearful of him, and never ever got a beating. He only ever beat me at table tennis or swimming.
Are you trying to say that an infrequent single slap on the back of the head at the dinner table is the equivalent of ‘a beating’ ?
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Are you saying that some level of physical violence against a child is acceptable? How do you draw the line between what is and what is not acceptable?
Since he had to do it more than once then it clearly wasn't particularly effective. So I wonder what it was for.
I find that "don't do that" works well enough without running the risk of teaching anything negative.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 7 May 19 at 01:29
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I think it's a generational thing, I couldn't imagine hitting my kids.
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“Don’t do that” didn’t work in my case. Never did. I was probably a stubborn little sod as a child and the odd slap on the back of the head did the trick. I don’t remember being sent crashing to the floor with concussion.
My mother used to slap the back of my legs when I was really naughty ( which I was) and she pushed my face into rice pudding ( or was it semolina) when I wouldn’t eat it.
I once spent half the night as an 8yo up a tree because I didn’t want to eat what was being prepared for tea. My parents left the back door unlocked and went to bed. I crept home in the early hours. Scratched and hungry. Didn’t do that again.
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My dad disciplined me when necessary. He even took his belt to me once when I was really naughty. Never did me any harm, and I never thought anything less of him. It also made me think twice before doing something daft again.
Also had the cane across the back of the legs, and palm of hand at school.
There is a difference between abuse and genuine discipline. Some people however don't know the difference.
Too many snowflakes and do gooders these days, IMHO.
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>>There is a difference between abuse and genuine discipline. Some people however don't know the difference.
Your Father, for example. -> "He even took his belt to me once ". And now you.
Physical violence is not required for discipline. It is, though, often the first resort of the limited.
>>Too many snowflakes and do gooders these days, IMHO.
So you would consider me a snowflake because I do not beat my children?
I simply cannot imagine attacking any child, never mind one of my own, with a belt in order to increase the pain beyond what I could do with my hands. I can't imagine attacking them with my hands either, for that matter.
It doesn't make someone respect you, quite the opposite in fact. It's just that some mistake respect and fear.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 7 May 19 at 11:17
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My father didn't beat me to within an inch of my life. It was hard enough to make me think twice about doing it again though. i.e I could still sit down afterwards.
If your daughters can be disciplined just by shouting at them, then fair enough. Everyone is different though. You don't seem to understand that.
There are plenty of kids in society that could do with a good slap / clip behind the earhole / whatever, to put them on the straight and narrow. Others may well just stop with a vocal command.
Abuse is beating someone until they bruise, bleed, pass out.
Slapping or smacking their bum however, isn't IMHO.
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So, your Father couldn't teach you discipline verbally. He tried hitting you with his hands, and that wasn't effective either. So he got a weapon, in this case a belt, so that he could hurt you even more.
And that, to you, is not abuse.
I cannot imagine the circumstances where I would hit my children. The circumstances where I would use a weapon to beat them so that it caused more pain than I could cause with my hands do not exist.
>>Everyone is different though. You don't seem to understand that.
Of course I understand that. Some beat their children and think it is wrong and are ashamed of themselves, some beat their children and justify it, and some don't beat their children at all.
Do you not find it interesting that you are trying to justify a grown male beating a young child with a weapon?
And taking a belt to someone is not smacking their bum. Not that I would agree with that, either.
Violence is not clever. Justifying it as the right way to manage a child points to some deep seated issues.
>>If your daughters can be disciplined just by shouting at them, then fair enough.
I very rarely shout either. When I do it is a failure on my part because it means my actions are being driven by my anger. Never a good thing. At least, not in my world.
If by disciplined you mean punished, then there are far better and more effective approaches than either beating or shouting. But they are more effort and take more thought. Which is probably the challenge.
As for teaching them, again there are far better approaches than beating them when they do it wrong. But again, more difficult and require more thought.
I think I'll leave it there. Commenting on someone else's approach to parenting is never a good way to go.
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>> And that, to you, is not abuse.
I'm probably not explaining it very well, or you're twisting what I'm trying to say. You had to be there to understand the circumstances.
>> Do you not find it interesting that you are trying to justify a grown male beating a young child with a weapon?
You're pretty much the same age as me, give or take a couple of years IIRC. So no one senior at your school (say for instance the headmaster/mistress) not have a cane on standby, or use a ruler occasionally?
>> I think I'll leave it there. Commenting on someone else's approach to parenting is never a good way to go.
Quite.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 7 May 19 at 13:54
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>>You had to be there to understand the circumstances.
I am sure, and I am not really commenting on the relationship between you and your Father which I am sure was just fine.
What I am saying is that we should not be trying to perpetuate it, or see it as a way forward, or criticise those who don't do it or call them snowflakes.
It is not a solution to the growing ills of our current youth. It is largely a parenting failure, I am sure. But slapping the kids won't fix it. Quite the opposite.
>>So no one senior at your school (say for instance the headmaster/mistress) not have a cane on standby, or use a ruler occasionally?
Yes. And I was expelled for taking it way from him forcibly when he tried to use it on me for the second time.
Which is rather my point; Utterly, utterly, wrong.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 7 May 19 at 14:12
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>> Yes. And I was expelled for taking it way from him forcibly when he tried
>> to use it on me for the second time.
So, even back then you wouldn't do as you were told and rebelled ;)
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>>My mother used to slap the back of my legs when I was really naughty ( which I was)
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When my two were young i have on occasions slapped the back of my childs leg ( with my right hand - no rings).
It was only when I considered they were in serious danger like attempting to run into the road but never for " bad" manners etc.
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>> ( which I was) and she pushed my face into rice pudding ( or was
>> it semolina) when I wouldn’t eat it.
Yes I had that, (it was her disgusting stew tho). Now that is utterly over the top for the nature of the transgression, and completely counterproductive. (that and other stuff ruined any possibly of a relationship between my mother and I, hated her in the end)
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>> A clip back of lug never did anyone any harm, it saved a thousand arguments
>> and taught respect, something most modern youths totally NEED nowadays! - The "Do-Gooders" have created
>> a "monster" generation, we are now reaping what they have sown, ask any Fire-fighter or
>> Ambulance driver.
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Reasonable rant there but I'm going to have to mark you down for no mention of the internet and/or mobile phones. Nor did you include the word snowflake. A pass but nothing more.
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......ask any Fire-fighter or Ambulance driver.
The Old Bill have the odd conflict situation as well you know :)
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"A clip back of lug never did anyone any harm, it saved a thousand arguments and taught respect"
Doesn't seem to have worked on the inmates of this forum :-)
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Somewhere along the way of teacher training I picked up the information that any blow to the head, no matter how light, will result in at least some measure of brain damage. In boxing, of course, it can result in punch-drunkenness.
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>> Somewhere along the way of teacher training I picked up the information that any blow
>> to the head, no matter how light, will result in at least some measure of
>> brain damage. In boxing, of course, it can result in punch-drunkenness.
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I can never understand why boxing is considered a 'sport'. If the purpose of an activity is to inflict physical harm to your opponent, how can that be considered a 'sport'?
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Elbow patches - R.P.
