Non-motoring > Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. Auctions
Thread Author: No FM2R Replies: 18

 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - No FM2R
What a complete friggin' idiot.

- Trump abandons the Kurds, the US's previous allies in the fight against IS
- Trump withdraws US troops. Troops not yet withdrawn are ordered not to defend the Kurds [their allies in the IS war] in any conflict with Turkish forces.
- Trump's behaviour allows Turkey to think attacking Syria to push the Kurds back is ok
- As well as fighting IS, the Kurds have limited the impact of Iran and Russia in Syria
- Turkey wishes to clear an area where it can export all it's Syrian immigrants, most of whom are not Kurdish.
- Turkey attacks killing civilians including towns outside their initial target zone
- Escapes begin from IS prison camps.
- UN alleges Turkey committing human rights abuses
- The Kurds seek help from their previous enemies the Syrian Government
- Russia has had troops in Syria for 5 years.
- The Syrian Government move their troops into the space that Turkey is attacking
- Russia, allies of Syria, say that they will prevent clashes between Turkey and the Syrian Army
- Trump contacts Turkish Government to insist on a truce.
- Trump announces he will place a tariff of 50% on Turkish steel

He's not evil, he is just a clueless t*** who has no understanding of anything and is completely out of his depth.. He enabled this conflict and now wants to stop it.



What an utter moron.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - sooty123
To him it makes perfect sense, and to many in the US. His broad election platform/policy is to get the US, as far as practically possible, out of the ME conflict areas. Note not out of the ME in total just out of the conflict areas.

This brings him closer to that objective.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - legacylad
Presumably he has clued up advisors whom he consults in their specialist fields. Have they recommended this course of action, and if not can he overrule them ? Surely not.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - Manatee
>> Presumably he has clued up advisors whom he consults in their specialist fields.

The nature of the beast I think is that he considers himself so charming and powerful that people will fall into line. When they do so all is well. When they don't agree with him he first turns on them and then just deletes them - from his confidence, from his thoughts, and possibly from their jobs. He is surrounded mostly by people who fall into line, or who keep their own counsel and try not to be the ones who rock the boat.

I have seen a couple of people like this at close quarters, obviously operating in very much smaller ponds. I would not have believed that anybody could be PotUS and do that.

>> Have they
>> recommended this course of action, and if not can he overrule them ? Surely not.
>>

In general where they have disagreed they will have told him in such a way that they can live with their consciences while allowing that there is an alternative view that Trump, with his special wisdom, might take without feeling in any way doubted or insulted. It gets increasingly unlikely that anyone close to him is likely to properly challenge him, as he selectively retains those who massage his ego.

A good leader will pick people who have skills complementary to his own. Trump thinks he knows everything to start with. A good leader will pick people who will challenge his thinking and add value. Trump sees challenge as a personal insult.

All in my opinion of course, based on closer observation of a couple of people with some very similar behaviours.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - Zero
The signals it sends to his Allies in the Middle East is not good. The signal it sends to Iran is not good (who already think he is a pacifist pushover) - all this means that Israel will feel it needs to get more aggressive.

Oh and Turkey has more or less told him to P off and don't think he is anything to be scared of.


All in all its not good
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 16 Oct 19 at 21:40
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - No FM2R
>>To him it makes perfect sense

He fundamentally believes both that everybody should do what he tells them and that they should be afraid of his wrath if they do not.

He believes that his occasional kind words should be received as blessings from upon high.

He cannot think through the minds of others nor link disparate matters.

He believes that objections can be solved by removing the objector.

He may be a President, CEO, Consultant, Advisor but he believes he is a Dictator and his word should be accepted in that context.

And all of that be believes is completely justifiable and should be welcomed because he truly believe he knows best.

His supporters are foolish if for no other reason than that they think his words have any meaning beyond what matters to him today.

He does not agree with them (or disagree with them, for that matter), he has no loyalty to them, he has no concern for them beyond his feeling in that moment when he speaks.

This is his profile and always has been. You can see it on TV, in his business dealings, in his campaigning and in his Presidency. Trump is WYSIWYG. It is the electorate who are thick.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 16 Oct 19 at 23:38
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - zippy
The danger is that by sanctions or other actions, Turkey is alienated from NATO and looks east towards Russia or towards other Arabic nations for friendship, support and mutual defence.

Turkey are already buying Russian air defence systems.

They are also heavily involved in the maintenance program for the new F35 fighters.

Perhaps this is Russia's intention all along.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - No FM2R
Given that Russia is moving it's troops in Syria into the Turkish firing line and siding with the Kurds, that is probably unlikely.

If anything Russia would possibly see benefit in Turkey being isolated.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - Netsur
Russia has m9st to win here.

It has ambitions of its own in the area, has already become popular in Israel due to the large numbers of ex-Soviet immigrants who moved there in the 1990s, and if also seen as a defender of the Kurds will enhance its reputation.

There is no ideal solution in the middle East short of removing all the dictatorships and illegitimate royalties and replacing then and the borders with tribal entities. Removing all their oil would also help....
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - Zero

>> If anything Russia would possibly see benefit in Turkey being isolated.

Not really, the Turks hold the key to black sea, Russia needs to keep them onside.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - No FM2R
Russia does not need them onside, that comes with several things including blame/responsibility for Turkey's actions. What Russia needs is Turkey isolated; i.e. not allies of the US.

This leaves them open to offers in the future when it suits Russia.

Bear in mind that Russia wants to use Syria, The Kurds and Turkey. Beyond all expectation they've now kind of got two of those. Even more surprising when you consider how incompatible those allies are [were] with each other.

Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 17 Oct 19 at 14:36
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - Manatee
A real coup for Trump, handing allies to Russia. What a conceited, incompetent, vainglorious prat he is.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - sooty123
They are also heavily involved in the maintenance program for the new F35 fighters.
>>

Not anymore, the maintenance contracts are being reissued across the countries that purchased them. I believe they'll mainly go to firms in the US. The aircraft are stuck in the US and their personal that were in training have been told to leave.

The purchase of the s400 was a massive poke in the eye to the US. Congress in particular were furious that someone in NATO had bought what they did.

This invasion of Syria leaves Russia in a rather tricky position of trying to remain allies of both sides.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - Zero
>> The danger is that by sanctions or other actions, Turkey is alienated from NATO and
>> looks east towards Russia or towards other Arabic nations for friendship, support and mutual defence.
>>
>>
>> Turkey are already buying Russian air defence systems.
>>
>> They are also heavily involved in the maintenance program for the new F35 fighters.

Not any more, the russian air defence system and the F35 program are incompatible, so the turks are int he process of being removed from the latter.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - No FM2R
Looks like you were right, Zero.

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50138121
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - Manatee
What a legacy for Trump. NATO member becomes Russian client state.

I wonder what the "world's most overrated general" thinks of that. Didn't Mattis resign over Trump pulling the troops out of Syria?
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - Zero
>> Looks like you were right, Zero.
>>
>> www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50138121

Yer, Turkey has always been the keyhole & lock to that unique East/West, Christian/Islam, Communist/Capitalist geo political porthole. You cant isolate it, because they can just flop either way with practised and cultural ease, or they can slam the door shut screwing up both sides. So you need to buy the key off them. Utterly untrustworthy too.

Been that way since the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 23 Oct 19 at 11:28
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - CGNorwich
"Yer, Turkey has always been the keyhole & lock to that unique East/West, Christian/Islam, Communist/Capitalist geo political porthole. You cant isolate it, because they can just flop either way with practised and cultural ease, or they can slam the door shut screwing up both sides. So you need to buy the key off them. Utterly untrustworthy too.

Been that way since the fall of the Ottoman Empire."

Food and beaches are great though.
 Turke, Syria, Russia, the Kurds and Trump. - Netsur
Turkey could really have been a factor in a solution to the Israel/Palestinian situation. But that was before Erdogan. There was a great economic and political nexus between the countries that would have benefitted the Palestinians and the Kurds. Pressure from either side on the other to compromise with guarantees of security from the relevant protecting power.

But Erdogan ruined that with a stupid aid boat stunt that went badly wrong and people died. Now Israel is getting friendly with the Gulf states and Turkey will lose out badly economically.

I wish Trump and Erdogan were dropped into the same barrel and rolled over Niagara. I liked at first, but now you can have too much of a good thing.. I prefer Putin; you know where he stands.
Latest Forum Posts