Non-motoring > the state of the NHS Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Zero Replies: 172

 the state of the NHS - Zero
My ileostomy reversal operation was scheduled for Tuesday - a 5 month wait after I was given the "all clear to proceed" scan.

On Saturday, I started the pre op process, which basically means three days of medical goop but no solid food, and no water 6 hours before the op.

Arrived at 11:30 on Tuesday, was prepped, and then sent home at 16:30 - theatre time had run out . so thats 11 hours without water and 16 hours without food.

I drank water overnight till midnight,

Arrive at 07:30 today - was sent home at 16:00 - No beds . so thats now another stint of 16 hours without fluids and and 40 consecutive hours without food.

Funnily enough I kicked up a fuss.

The department head was called, and in trying to placate me thought it would be a good idea to justify it by saying "there is a lady in now who was on her 5th cancelation"

After I told her not to boast about her abject performance, that it was nothing to be proud of and did the opposite of placate me, the PA to the CEO was called.

She is going to try and cancel some other poor schmucks ops next Wednesday and fit me in then

She said that even cancelling someone else and putting me in does not mean there will be a bed so I could still be cancelled after waiting all day - So it could be another large period without eating.

The likely outcome is that my reversal will be deferred till March next year, some 12 months after being given the ileostomy and 8 months after being cleared for a reversal.
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
Might be worth going private.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
I'm investigating it.
 the state of the NHS - sooty123
Could you try another hospital?
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> Could you try another hospital?

You need to be referred by your current consultant, and there is no guarantee they are any better. An outside referral just adds further delay, and unless your referred hospital is a specialist centre, your referring and referred hospital have no performance guidelines to try and adhere to.
 the state of the NHS - henry k
>> I'm investigating it.
>>
SWMBO had both her knees done privately.
I was surprised how widely the prices in the south east varied.
I contacted a lot of hospitals for their deals.
Both ops were performed at Oxford by a John Radcliffe surgeon.
Transport was by me.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
Bowel surgery does not fit as well into the "priced menu" scenario.
 the state of the NHS - Netsur
I read an article about the amount of work carried out by an NHS surgeon. Seems that a USA surgeon works twice as hard (twice the hours?) for four times the pay.

I asked a friend who is an orthopediac surgeon if this assessment was correct and he confirmed it. So I asked him why the NHS couldn't do this? It would be much more efficient if NHS facilities were operational 24/7. The simple reason was that they don't want to work that hard.

There are bound to be more complicated reasons as well, such as other staff needed to support the surgeons who also need to be paid and of course there are not enough of them nor beds. But it could be done, if some element of commercialism was injected into the NHS.

 the state of the NHS - Zero
If I go private, I shall be using the same consultant surgeon, the same hospital theatre, the same theatre technicians and nurses, That will be at about 19:00 in the evening - I was cancelled at 16;30 because theatre time had run out

Post op will be in the Runnymede BMI which is connected to the NHS hospital by a 200 yard corridor
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 4 Dec 19 at 21:16
 the state of the NHS - Manatee
I'm not close to the detail but I suspect that there are a lot of moving parts to this. I think the US does far more surgeries than the UK for example. Data are hard to compare especially for elective procedures because the US data are skewed towards patients with means or good insurance. Surgeons have every reason to incline to doing more surgery if there is a ready supply of insured patients.

But I suspect you are right to say that NHS surgeons are more likely to be limited by theatre time. Ironically cost may well come into it too. Far more is spent per capita in the US than here I believe, disregarding who spends it.
 the state of the NHS - Rudedog
Sorry to hear of your situation Z...

Unfortunately we are probably a week into the annual winter bed crisis, things are only going to get a lot worse until probably March next year, each time we cancel a major procedure because of no bed then it just has a knock on to the next operating list and so on..

Now if you've been cancelled on the day due to No Bed, and you actually attended the hospital then you are a '28 Day' case, there is a legal responsibility for the hospital to carry out your op otherwise they will be fined big time (unless you decide to turn down the new date).

Look up '28 Day patient' on the NHS sites.

I'm not going to comment on some of the other comments as they are total BS.
 the state of the NHS - Kevin
>each time we cancel a major procedure because of no bed then it just has a knock on to the next
>operating list and so on.

Can't you set up a bed sharing scheme in the winter months?

OK, I guess people might be a bit upset having to share a bed with Z but if you kept them under anaesthetic for a bit longer they might not notice.
 the state of the NHS - Zero

>> OK, I guess people might be a bit upset having to share a bed with
>> Z but if you kept them under anaesthetic for a bit longer they might not
>> notice.

I can assure you that having experienced two fairly recent stays in hospital, my bed would be preferable to some of the drugged, drunk, crazy and mentally unstable rif raf that you find in an NHS ward.
 the state of the NHS - tyrednemotional
>>
>> I can assure you that having experienced two fairly recent stays in hospital, my bed
>> would be preferable to the other drugged, drunk, crazy and mentally unstable rif raf
>> that you find in an NHS ward.
>>


...there, fixed that for you!.....
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> >>
>> >> I can assure you that having experienced two fairly recent stays in hospital, my
>> bed
>> >> would be preferable to the other drugged, drunk, crazy and mentally unstable rif raf
>> >> that you find in an NHS ward.


8/10 Well Done Bland Minor, You clearly have a promising career at the Palace of Westminster clown academy.
 the state of the NHS - Zero

>> But I suspect you are right to say that NHS surgeons are more likely to
>> be limited by theatre time.

Its generally acknowledged that NHS theatres are under utilised. This is for a number reasons, including lack of surgeons, and theatre staff (dont forget you need a trained nurse/ theatre technician or two) anaesthetist, surgeons hours, and somewhere to stuff the stream of patients coming out, be that post op, HDU/IC, hospital bed or discharge lounge.

Just found the 28 day rule

www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/nhs-services-and-treatments/what-if-my-nhs-surgery-or-operation-is-cancelled-at-the-last-minute/

Going to raise a complaint via PALS
 the state of the NHS - Haywain
Sorry to hear about all this, Zeddo; I know from recent, personal experience that delayed surgical procedures can overshadow a whole period of your life. I hope that you get sorted soon.
 the state of the NHS - Robin O'Reliant
Sorry to here about your situation Z, we have had similar experience with Mrs O'Reliant. She needed minor eye surgery a few years ago and we lost count of the number of cancelled appointments with long waits between each one. Her follow up treatment was subbed out to a local optician after we complained about the same thing happening again, and to be fair he was excellent.
 the state of the NHS - Manatee
Hope you get sorted soon Z.

It seems to be crumbling a bit round here. In Tring, referrals in the past have usually been to Stoke Mandeville which is the nearest hospital, but they seem to be struggling and more people are now being sent to Hemel Hempstead and Watford. Whether this is related to Tring being in Herts and SMH being in Bucks, I don't know.

I'm seeing my cardiology consultant next week, I'll ask him what's going on if anything.
 the state of the NHS - R.P.
I'm far from a Tory supporter and would never dream of voting for them but the NHS in Wales under Labour is in sh** state. Get well soon Zero.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
Right,

I managed to find the "private" email of the CEO of the NHS trust,, the email of the head of hospital trustees, and CC'd them and my local MP ( who happens to be the departing/sacked ex Tory chancellor) on my email complaint to PALS at 23:00 last night.

I had a phone call this morning, for an admission on the 11th.

 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
>> managed to find the "private" email of the CEO

Mr Wilson CBE ?

I can send hatemail to them all for you ;-)
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> >> managed to find the "private" email of the CEO
>>
>> Mr Wilson CBE ?

No not him


 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
>>No not him

Oops - have resent it to Ms Rankin
 the state of the NHS - Zero
Yer - thats the one
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
Spending has fallen significantly behind what is required to maintain the position in 2010.

Added to which the pensions disaster has meant consultants do less overtime as they end up with 5 figure tax bills for breaching Osborne's limits.

When I started around the turn of the millennium, the NHS was is a shocking state - 2year waits for hip replacements were not unusual - Labour started spending a lot more in their second term (~6%/yr increase iirc) and by 2007 it had become an awful lot better - a few weeks was typical for referral-to-appointment for most specialties.

The population is getting older and more morbid, and in addition is living a damn sight longer with ill health - increasing health spending by inflation plus a couple of percent will mean the service stands still at best.

We're a bit behind most of our neighbours with similar GDPs

data.oecd.org/chart/5Mvk
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
I wonder what percentage of over 65s are not currently being treated for something or other by NHS. Pretty small I think. Ironic that we no longer make any NHS contribution. Time to change that I think.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
What about the children?
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
Children don’t have an income do they? You and I have a pretty good income and could well make a contribution to health costs.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> Children don’t have an income do they? You and I have a pretty good income
>> and could well make a contribution to health costs.

Ah - means testing. oooo bad words spoken there ( even tho it is clearly the only way to ensure fair distribution of "free" services) And clearly stopping paying into the NHS on retirement is an anomaly thats wont last.

I think my balance is in credit. I spent so long not going to the doctor they sent me a letter asking if i was still alive, and if i didnt respond i would be taken off the list.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 5 Dec 19 at 16:00
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
You do make contributions from the income tax on your pensions and VAT on the crap you buy (you know, the Farah slacks from the Express magazine...)

NI is just tax - it isn't hypothecated.

Ditch NI and transfer it all to Income Tax?
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 5 Dec 19 at 16:03
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
Well yes we do but at the end of the day we are not paying enough tax to support the NHS. I think a hypothecated NHS tax would be a good idea but wealthy pensioners should not be excluded.
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> Well yes we do but at the end of the day we are not paying
>> enough tax to support the NHS. I think a hypothecated NHS tax would be a
>> good idea but wealthy pensioners should not be excluded.

I wouldn't welcome paying extra but....

It's a massive anomaly that people like Zero and myself retired on decent pensions some years before our State Pension Age pay less tax than would be case if our pensions were earnings.
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
>>Well yes we do but at the end of the day we are not paying enough tax to support the NHS

I have always paid the approrpiate taxes, but my family and I represent hardly any drain on the NHS. Firstly we're not there much and secondly when we are there we tend to go private, A&E being the exception. Oh and the occaisional GP trip.

I don't mind that, but I wouldn't be instantly thrilled about paying more. Especially when the NHS is the most horrendously inefficient organisation that could be a million times better with no extra money.

It doesn't need commercialisation as such, it just needs to be arranged and managed more proficiently. I did one contract in the NHS. The organisation and structure are laughable.

Removing unions stuck to historic processes and arrangements would significantly help as well.
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
That’s all well and good but the NHS needs more funds now. What we have paid in the past is no longer relevant. Those who can pay more will have to pay more one way or another if the NHS is not going to collapse. The NHS was designed for a population that mostly died by the time they were 70, not one that can survive with expensive treatment well into their nineties.
 the state of the NHS - sooty123
It's perhaps a good idea but politically a non starter, no pensioners will vote for it.

Look at the 'dementia tax' a mere toe in the water to some sort of reform, dead in the water before it saw the light of day.
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
Well I would but you’re probably right. I’m afraid we’re heading fo ttwo tier system in which those who can afford to will buy private healthcare leaving the majority to suffer at the hands of an increasingly degraded NHS. If we want a decent healthcare system for all we need to pay for it. We currently have a poor to middling system compared to other countries which is relatively cheap to run. I’m no fan of the NHS as it is but whatever system we want will cost us money.
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
>> I’m afraid we’re heading for a two tier system in which those who can afford to will buy private healthcare leaving the majority to suffer at the hands of an increasingly degraded NHS

Going privately doesn't exempt anyone from also paying for the NHS. Surely it also lowers the burden?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 5 Dec 19 at 19:25
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
No it doesn't but it does make people who no longer use it less prepared to pay increased taxes to fund it. From a personal point of view I would be happy with a private care but that's not going to be affordable for most and I dont waste particularly want to live in a country where only the wealthy can afford medical care.
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
>>I dont waste particularly want to live in a country where only the wealthy can afford medical care.

So people using private care AND paying paying tax, some of whic goes to the NHS will make the NHS unaffordable for the poor, whereas if everybody used the NHS it would become more affordable?

And this when we're talking about tax in a general tax bill? Because there's not a specific tax bill for the NHS is there?

>> it does make people who no longer use it less prepared to pay increased taxes to fund it

So ban Private Health Care, so all those people become an additional burden on the NHS and then it'll all be ok?

I think you may need to revisit your logic.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 5 Dec 19 at 20:14
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
So people using private care AND paying paying tax, some of which goes to the NHS will make the NHS unaffordable for the poor, whereas if everybody used the NHS it would become more affordable? “

I didn’t say that. Perhaps need to revise your reading skills,

If we have a health system which provides good care for all the wealthier part of the community would not need feel the need to buy private care and would be prepared to pay higher taxes to support it. As it stands at the moment we stand in danger of a two tier system.with the wealthy abandoning the health service much as they have abandoned state schooling.
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
Then how are you relating private care use and the affordability of the NHS?

>> the wealthier part of the community would not need feel the need to buy private care

Utter garbage.

Private medical care is not very much about the quality of medical care. It is really all about convenience and customer service. Not what the NHS should be there to provide.

If you want those people to use the NHS then you will absolutely have to have two tiers of service. Unless you are going to give the whole country private rooms with cable TV, decent meals and facilities, and operations scheduled when it is convenient for them.

>>at the moment we stand in danger of a two tier system.with the wealthy abandoning the health service much as they have abandoned state schooling.

Yet we continue to pay for both systems.

Though in the case of Private Education it is very much about the quality of that education. Private education with the standard of teachers and their approach to teaching, their equipment and facilities, standards of behaviour and all round performance is in a different league to the vast majority of state schools, if not all.

So I don't mind paying for it, but you're not making me use it and I won't ever want to.

So I presume you do not resent people paying for the NHS, you just think they should use it also? And that if they do that would help somehow?
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> Ah - means testing. oooo bad words spoken there ( even tho it is clearly
>> the only way to ensure fair distribution of "free" services)

Do you accept that if that were the case you and your wife would both be paying full cost or, at least, the maximum assessed contribution for any GP visit or treatment?
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> >> Ah - means testing. oooo bad words spoken there ( even tho it is
>> clearly
>> >> the only way to ensure fair distribution of "free" services)
>>
>> Do you accept that if that were the case you and your wife would both
>> be paying full cost or, at least, the maximum assessed contribution for any GP visit
>> or treatment?

Yes I fully accept that, but ironically it wont come to pass because somehow lefty type people have an idea that means testing is an evil capitalist plot to denigrate the poor - So the real poor dont get the benefits they need, the well off dont pay for their state privileges and all because the pretend poor dont want to be found out.
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
>>Yes I fully accept that, but ironically it wont come to pass because somehow lefty type people have an idea that means testing is an evil capitalist plot to denigrate the poor - So the real poor dont get the benefits they need, the well off dont pay for their state privileges and all because the pretend poor dont want to be found out.

*Who* does object to means testing?

Presumably someone who believes they should have something for free but are told that in fact they must pay for it? Or wants a State Benefit but are told they can't have it.

But surely that's an argument about where the line is drawn, not the philosophy itself?

We seem to believe that somebody getting something they shouldn't have is a greater problem than someone not getting something that they should have.

.**********

I like means testing we just need to think more about where we draw the line and stop trying to be so tight about it. We should work out what the threshold actually is, near as we can calculate, and then move it 10% further in the direction of the possibly needy.(if you see what I mean)
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 5 Dec 19 at 21:58
 the state of the NHS - legacylad
I think if you’ve signed a DNR form, thus less likely to be an NHS customer in future, you should get an increased State Pension.
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
>>I think if you've signed a DNR form, thus less likely to be an NHS customer in future, you should get an increased State Pension.

Or free fags for pensioners.
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
That's ironic. After a fast drive across town I am now writing this from a hospital where I am going to be with #1 daughter for a few days.

Honestly, it makes you miss the medical competence of the NHS, if not their customer service and facilities.
 the state of the NHS - Falkirk Bairn
In the last 18 years I have had 3 operations
2002 - Gall Bladder - Off work & in hospital 3 x 5 days as they could not "fit me in"
Paid £6,500 - saw GP Monday, Consultant Wed, Operated Friday 7pm, out Saturday noon.

2004 - Hernia - 6 months after consultant visit - Pre-op tests etc etc but no dates - Paid £2500.
In Wed pm, out Thursday noon

2010 - Cancer (my GP was 99.9% sure on day 1) not officially found for 7/8 weeks, then surgeon goes on holiday.........waited 5/6 weeks.

When a son knew of the surgery delay he offered to pay but I had already discounted paying for it myself as I knew that the operation was but 1 step in a much longer journey.

Now 9.5 years since diagnosis & hoping to be around for some time to come. My "Surgery and Chemo" pals are no longer with us - I am the last man standing.

The NHS I felt let me down with the gall bladder & the hernia BUT when my problem was very serious they came good - stuttering service before the operation BUT tremendous service & care for the 3 years afterwards.
 the state of the NHS - hjd
I received two text messages in quick succession yesterday, both from my GP's surgery.
1. Dear Ms X
Please make an appointment with any GP for a cancer care review.

2. Dear Ms X
Please ignore the last message you received this one has been sent in error.

Just as well I'm not awaiting test results and have never yet been investigated for cancer...

 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>>*Who* does object to means testing?

OK I’ll bite.

Firstly, for all Zero’s dismissive comments I suspect it could quite quickly lead to a ‘two tier’ service. Might there be a temptation to cut corners on things like food for those not paying? I don’t mean starvation just restriction to a minimalist menu. I think in time the same ‘economy’ would creep into treatments. The likelihood is that those paying would develop a mentality that they were subsidising those who got free stuff and demand a say. We’ve seen that on here where people demand rights over how ‘their’ taxes are spent.

If you want to see two tier provision look at NHS Glasses on sixties/seventies.

It’s undoubtedly true that some people will run a mile from a means test either from pride or because they can’t manage the questions never mind computerised application process required the 'digital by default' mantra.

Their health will suffer as will that of those who miss the means test but genuinely cannot afford the cost.

Will the means test take account of travel to work costs, real housing costs, child maintenance and all the other stuff that applies in real life? You’ve got a big bill coming up; repair the car so you can get to work or get your mole looked at?

How do you set charges? A fixed fee for a GP appointment is at least easy to work out but where do you set it? Even if it’s ‘only’£10 that’ll be a real burden for those with just a bit too much or who are on a run of bad luck. And frankly £10 goes nowhere near covering the cost. I doubt it would even cover the cost of administering testing never mind recovery of charges due but unpaid.

What about a hospital stay? Do you just levy a ‘hotel’ charge for bed and food? Or will cost depend on treatment so cancer cost lots more a hernia? Rationing of treatments and a second class service for those who cannot pay? - bet.

Debt recovery would be a massive big issue – see problems recovering charges from foreigners treated here. And don’t even consider suggestion of pay in advance. Windrush victims have suffered in pain and probably died because of that policy.

And then devise a means test to separate the free sheep from the paying goats? Is it just those on income based benefits who get in free or would others do so as well?

We means test ‘free’ prescriptions and things like dentistry and eye tests/spectacles; and that’s a mess. If you get Universal Credit (UC) as a Job Seeker or for sickness you get free prescriptions etc. But there’s no space on the form for that you have to pretend you’re on JSA or ESA. Get it wrong and a fine will result – I’ve seen this with my own eyes. If you’re on UC to top up low earnings free prescriptions depend on how much you earned in the last ‘assessment period’. So you get them free in July and September but not August or October.

Is there a policy unit or 'think tank' that come up with a serious/workable model for means testing health care.

It’s simply not a practical proposition.
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> lefty type people have an idea that means testing is an evil capitalist plot to denigrate
>> the poor

That's a contentious and rather silly way of putting it.

Obviously some sort of means test is a necessity for the Social Security 'safety net' of cash benefits.

There are both principled and practical objections to means testing for services like health care and education. I've a number of work and domestic issues to deal with right now but I'll try and return to the subject later in the day.

 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> >> lefty type people have an idea that means testing is an evil capitalist plot
>> to denigrate
>> >> the poor
>>
>> That's a contentious and rather silly way of putting it.

But very accurate
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
Pensions and welfare spending is ~£300bn a year.

Sod benefits and state pensions - just give 5 grand a year to everyone over 16 as a basic income until they're dead or in jail.

No ID card & NI number? No basic income for you.

No spongers as we'd all "sponge", less admin costs, less ££££ going to Capita et al and they're useless assessments...

You want a bigger pension than 5 grand? Save for it.



Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 6 Dec 19 at 10:36
 the state of the NHS - Duncan
I have an ongoing, minor, health problem. My default hospital is Kingston, but I have been referred to St Georges, Tooting. The journey to Tooting was so awful that I have now referred myself to Royal Surrey at Guildford.

The service that I have had at all three is good. I think I will try to stick with Royal Surrey for this particular problem.

Zero, sorry to hear about your problem. I don't suppose you want to say where you are attending - I might make a guess and say St Peter's?
 the state of the NHS - Zero
It is St Peters.
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
Organising elective surgeries is a piece of cake.

Once you add in the need to deal with emergencies and GP referrals it becomes very difficult. A perforated appendix trumps ileistomy revision.

If private hospitals had to run A&E and accept GP referrals they'd be no better than your local DGH.

If you want exclusive elective surgeries that are never cancelled you then need to have a separate team dealing with emergencies with their own bespoke theatres and clinics.

Oh, and cancelling winter would help too...


I'm always a bit wary that being able to do both NHS and private work is a disincentive to having a short NHS waiting list....
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 6 Dec 19 at 11:59
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
Re. The OP, the gaffer is now finished her treatment and all her markers are clear so it's now the waiting game for the next few years.

6 months of chemo, 4 months of which occupying a hospital room.

I'd guesstimate £100k worth of care, which would easily have been double that in the US.

Apparently over half of US debt collection actions include unpaid medical bills.
 the state of the NHS - tyrednemotional
>> ... the gaffer is now finished her treatment and all her markers are
>> clear....

...excellent!...
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> Re. The OP, the gaffer is now finished her treatment and all her markers are
>> clear so it's now the waiting game for the next few years.

Excellent. They call our waiting game "the surveillance clinic" I must confess when my first appointment came through I misread it as "the survivors clinic".

£100K? I would guess thats on the low side of estimation. Tho when I had my hip incident in Cuba, that involved an ambulance, nurses, Xray, Cuban version of a consultant, and crutches they presented me with a bill for £55
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 6 Dec 19 at 12:54
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
Interesting year but not one I'd recommend.

A bit like your journey, Z, from "I hate sending poo in the post" to "My ileostomy reversal has been cancelled twice"

Not a big fan of this being a patient malarkey (vicariously in my case I guess)...
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> Interesting year but not one I'd recommend.
>>
>> A bit like your journey, Z, from "I hate sending poo in the post" to
>> "My ileostomy reversal has been cancelled twice"
>>
>> Not a big fan of this being a patient malarkey (vicariously in my case I
>> guess)...

Its the mental stress thats the problem, it's a real roller coaster, Bad news, Good news, things work well, things go badly, albeit interspersed with periods of stability.

Having an ileostomy is certainly not a lifestyle choice I would recommend, and its had its moments, but at the end of the day, its a disability that has not actually stopped me mostly doing and achieving stuff I want or need to do. The worse thing is that for the last 5 months its been medically not necessary or required. At that point it becomes a thing of resentment.

Generally speaking my trust has been pretty good with dealing with my issue, and I am aware that now my medical priority is not the highest thing on the planet, but at the end of the day a patient has to take some responsibility, control of care, and I am not prepared to meekly roll over and be a victim of someone else's poor planning, poor management, and entrenched rules.
 the state of the NHS - henry k
>>...., but I have been referred to St Georges, Tooting.
>> The journey to Tooting was so awful that I have now referred myself to Royal Surrey at Guildford.
>>
I /We have been to St Georges many times and going by car have not had problems at any time.

IIRC The alternative is by train to Wimbledon and a 493 bus ( 19mins) .
The bus uses the same route as I did.

I have done the the trip in a NHS ambulance - no blues and twos from Kingston Hospital to St Georges and they gravitated to Wimbledon route I used.
 the state of the NHS - hjd
The journey to St George's and the parking there isn't a bundle of fun but you learn ways to make it more bearable when you are a regular and frequent visitor.
Parking at Royal Surrey is apparently even worse though.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> The journey to St George's and the parking there isn't a bundle of fun but
>> you learn ways to make it more bearable when you are a regular and frequent
>> visitor.
>> Parking at Royal Surrey is apparently even worse though.

It is, and its quite a long schlep from the station. There is parking int he side streets of Park Barn estate, if you can ensure your wheels are still there when you get back.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 6 Dec 19 at 14:01
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> No ID card & NI number? No basic income for you.

Appreciate this may be 'tic' but what do you do with those people who genuinely cannot manage/retain even that sort of stuff?
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
images.app.goo.gl/b58BqBnTBnwutAjg7


Legal guardians are how it's done just now, Bromp, for the infirm.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 6 Dec 19 at 12:49
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> Legal guardians are how it's done just now, Bromp, for the infirm.

I'm not talking of the infirm but those with chaotic lifestyle and/or multiple misfortune.

I could give examples.

Not large in number but too many to ignore.
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
>>but those with chaotic lifestyle and/or multiple misfortune.

Yeah the current system works great for them too.
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> Yeah the current system works great for them too.

Indeed.

No ID = no money doesn't work.

QED.
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
Bromp, you're either capable of looking after your affairs or you are not.

If you are not then a responsible guardian is appropriate.

Not quite sure what your point is.

 the state of the NHS - Falkirk Bairn
A son works in Texas. His company provides $2m cover for any family member.

A colleague's wife has cancer - they have exhausted the £2m, sold the house and moved into rented. The family car is now a banger rather than what they used to have.

Despite earning some $200K salary he is, after 4 years, effectively bankrupt, and his wife's outlook is very bad.

The NHS has issues for many in the UK but in the UK you would have been treated foc.

With the husband being able to look after the kids and not having this type of money worries he faces everyday.
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> Bromp, you're either capable of looking after your affairs or you are not.

In England and Wales, since the Mental Capacity Act, the test is subject etc dependant.

It's not binary.
 the state of the NHS - Haywain
"you're either capable of looking after your affairs or you are not."

I can say from personal and friends' recent experiences that, in order to get the best out of the NHS, you need to be articulate and educated. You have to be aware that any chain of communication is as strong as the weakest link, and that link could be someone with a poor command of English, someone inadequately trained or someone who doesn't really bother.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> "you're either capable of looking after your affairs or you are not."
>>
>> I can say from personal and friends' recent experiences that, in order to get the
>> best out of the NHS, you need to be articulate and educated. You have to
>> be aware that any chain of communication is as strong as the weakest link, and
>> that link could be someone with a poor command of English, someone inadequately trained or
>> someone who doesn't really bother.

Having experience of corporate life is very helpful. Names - Finding out who is who and who they report to, who has the skills sets, who has the clout, what they get measured on, process procedures, what buttons to press.
 the state of the NHS - sherlock47
>>>Having experience of corporate life is very helpful. Names - Finding out who is who and who they report to, who has the skills sets, who has the clout, what they get measured on, process procedures, what buttons to press.<<<


Z - do not give away the secrets, otherwise we will loose the benefits. For many years I have used the ' understand the process first' mantra, followed by 'understand the people'. It has served me well in over 20 years of regular NHS contact, with very little to complain about. My experience of private health in that time would leave me to avoid private whenever possible.

Best of wishes, ( I was going to say 'luck'), with your continued interactions with the medical professions.
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Sat 7 Dec 19 at 09:10
 the state of the NHS - Bobby
Same applies in all walks of life when wanting to progress a complaint, whether it be about your new car, your supermarket chicken being off or your train being late.

Get to the one who’s KPIs will be affected and you will get a better result!
 the state of the NHS - Ambo
Daughter returned to her home near Bath after a trip to Thailand. She drove to us in Poole on Friday. She said driving had been ok but she had experienced an odd light in her right eye. It became insistent yesterday and her vision blurred. She called our local hospital at about 10:30 but triage referred her to Royal Bournemouth Hospital for 2:15. No consultant was available until 3:15 but then there were two. They diagnosed a torn retina and said she should have an op asap. There were no local facilities but they got on to triage to sift possibilities, to hit on 7:15 this morning – in Bristol. She couldn’t drive but Hubby hot-tyred it in the F type to take her back to Bath last night. The successful op was about 11:00 this morning. She will be kept in overnight but expects to be back home tomorrow mid-morning. The state of the NHS looks good in the southwest.
 the state of the NHS - henry k
My only experience in that region.
A son of great friends was in a bad car crash in Poole.
Poole hospital treated him but said no more could be done to sort his eyesight.
He had an opague lens in his specs which was far from great.
SWMO was a Moorfields patient and my daughter had a great friend studying there.
I sorted him out an appointment and they solved his problem.
We were all obviously delighted.
They came to me by car and I was taxi driver to Moorfields, hovered/hid and then returned them back to my home.
 the state of the NHS - PeterS
In my all to frequent experience, the NHS has always been good at single issue acute (ish) conditions. It got far worse at ‘joined up care’ under Tony Blair’s governments and stil,hasn’t recovered....more money was spent, but it created silos. There was no strategy, or even a plan. Up until he died, the only way Andy got anything like joined up care was by being vocal and by knowing the system. That can’t be right.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> In my all to frequent experience, the NHS has always been good at single issue
>> acute (ish) conditions. It got far worse at ‘joined up care’ under Tony Blair’s governments

I was impressed that my case got good Joined up care, Treatment provided by three trusts, Frimley, Guildford & St Peters, and few home visits by specialist care nurses, all joined up and automatic... I did however have a common issue, with known treatments and outcomes.

Of course, and understandably it all came to a grinding halt when I became non urgent.



>> up care was by being vocal and by knowing the system. That can’t be right.

Funnily enough, my noise making and knowledge of the system place and process, has now got my op moved up a day to Tuesday, with a backup place on the theatre list for Wednesday.

It may not be right, and someone else may be disappointed and displaced, but we do what we have to do.
 the state of the NHS - zippy
Eldest is currently in A&E on nights and spent quite a while last night dealing with the aftermath of a crash involving a drunk driver (f) with a 7month old baby.

With the police, ambulance service and fire service involved as well the costs of this need to be put squarely on perpetrator - sell your house to make reparations sort of costs - It must have cost thousands to clear up the mess.

Considering a friend of ours was recently killed by a drug driver I think she did well not to "let rip". I probably would have.
 the state of the NHS - PeterS
>>
>> I was impressed that my case got good Joined up care, Treatment provided by three
>> trusts, Frimley, Guildford & St Peters, and few home visits by specialist care nurses, all
>> joined up and automatic... I did however have a common issue, with known treatments and
>> outcomes.
>>
>> Of course, and understandably it all came to a grinding halt when I became non
>> urgent.
>>

The challenge Andy faced was coordinating more than one specialism. Renal by itself was fine, though shockingly inefficient compared to other renal units around the world, without exception. But linking renal with diabetic with general surgery when he broke a leg was an absolute shambles. Even though they were in the same hospital!

In Europe, it seems to me that the French system is considerably better and more efficient / patient centric than here. But that was true of Jamaica as well, which is a sad indictment of the way the NHS is run, not what we spend on it.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
Well I got admitted, and the deed is done. On water only till they are sure the gasket and bolts are tight, then it's a period of retraining what will be a babies bowel

So for me this cancer journey is coming to an end with a successful conclusion, plenty reading this thread will have similar journeys if they hadn't already
 the state of the NHS - tyrednemotional
Good Luck!

I hope the 'retraining' is at least well enough advanced for you to enjoy Christmas comfortably.
 the state of the NHS - Haywain
"Well I got admitted, and the deed is done"

Well done, Zeddo, that was quick; best wishes for a comfortable recovery.
 the state of the NHS - Manatee
Good luck from here Z.

I not surprised by the retraining. A friend of mine was ventilated for about two months. There was some doubt as to whether he would successfully re-learn to swallow. Not something one might think of if one hadn't already heard of it.
 the state of the NHS - Robin O'Reliant
Nice one Z, hope you are back to normal soon.

There's plenty for to do, West Ham need a new manager.
 the state of the NHS - James Loveless
Best wishes, Z, from me too.

I'm a survivor of rectal cancer (diagnosed one year ago to the day), but I didn't have such a bad time as you.
 the state of the NHS - Duncan
>> So for me this cancer journey is coming to an end with a successful conclusion,
>> plenty reading this thread will have similar journeys if they hadn't already

My brother had a similar story to you. It took him through until he was 86.

Good luck.
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
When I qualified 25ish years ago the stats were "1 in 3 people will get cancer in their lifetime" - now it is "1 in 2 people..."


Ironically I think much of this rise is due to lower smoking rates - far less people dying from heart attack and stroke early gives them more time to brew a tumour!

A decent chunk is also likely diet, exercise and alcohol related - stats show we drink more than 30-40 years ago and the role of alcohol in cancer is better understood now.

Another stat from the past is "prevalence of type 2 diabetes is 1%" - today it is more like 5%.

 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
Alzheimer’s disease is now the leading cause of death in the UK. I’m not sure if that represents medical progress.
 the state of the NHS - neiltoo
>> babies bowel !!
Golly!
Does this mean you're in nappies?

Seriously, Best Wishes

8o)
 the state of the NHS - legacylad
Yeah best wishes for a speedy recovery Zeddo. Hope things improve from hereonin.

Saw a steamer last week powering up the Settle Carlisle line....wasn’t expecting that this time of year
 the state of the NHS - commerdriver
>> Saw a steamer last week powering up the Settle Carlisle line....wasn’t expecting that this time
>> of year
>>
This time of year brings the steam trains back out with santa specials and trips to Christmas markets, we are going up to York on Saturday behind Tornado and coming back down behind Union of South Africa

Hope the recovery process goes well Z
 the state of the NHS - Zero
coming
>> back down behind Union of South Africa
>>
You ain't, it's broke
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.railadvent.co.uk/2019/12/repairs-completed-as-streamlined-steam-locomotive-is-set-to-take-to-the-tracks-tomorrow.html/amp
 the state of the NHS - Zero
It's the third time it's broken in 4 weeks with the same issue
 the state of the NHS - Zero
In fact that link IS the last time it failed, it conked out at kings langley
 the state of the NHS - commerdriver
>> You ain't, it's broke
>>
great :-( , it's been a busy few days, I hadn't checked
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> >> You ain't, it's broke
>> >>
>> great :-( , it's been a busy few days, I hadn't checked

Tornado is fine, you will get steam one way, but may be class 47 on the way back, which is an experience, 1960 diesel, it's very noisy and smelly
 the state of the NHS - commerdriver
>> Tornado is fine, you will get steam one way, but may be class 47 on
>> the way back, which is an experience, 1960 diesel, it's very noisy and smelly
>>
I will let you know my view on Monday

cheers
 the state of the NHS - Zero
Rumour Mill says its tornado both ways
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
..thought we were still in your medical thread for a moment.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
And actually equally as accurate
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
Ha ha ha ha.

Yuk.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> Rumour Mill says its tornado both ways

And so it was, with a class 47 on the back for shunting, turning, electric carriage heating and insurance

Rumour mill says the 47 was in neutral on the runs with tornado hauling it, and the 11 coaches for a gross train weight of 575 tonnes cruising at 75 mph. It would have used about 8000 gallons of water and about 8 tons of coal
 the state of the NHS - commerdriver
>> >> Rumour Mill says its tornado both ways
>>
>> And so it was, with a class 47 on the back for shunting, turning, electric
>> carriage heating and insurance
>>
>> Rumour mill says the 47 was in neutral on the runs with tornado hauling it,
>> and the 11 coaches for a gross train weight of 575 tonnes cruising at 75
>> mph. It would have used about 8000 gallons of water and about 8 tons of
>> coal
>>
Rumour mill pretty accurate on all counts, faultless running, 20 minutes early into York and on the button return to kings cross, warm carriage, fairly reasonable supply of tea/coffee etc.
Only gripe was staff and other passengers who cannot close a door behind them.

Tornado still gets a good crowd at stations and along the line, sadly looks like 60009 has ended its main line steam days
 the state of the NHS - Fullchat
"Saw a steamer last week powering up the Settle Carlisle line....wasn't expecting that this time of year"

2 weeks ago I was looking down at the Ribblehead viaduct from the top of Ingleborough. And a tad windy it was too :(
 the state of the NHS - Fullchat
And best wishes Z. Hope you are firing on all cylinders soon.
 the state of the NHS - legacylad
Fullchat. It’s always a lot windier on the top of Whernside. Just up the road from chez LL gaff in Giggleswick. Hope you made the time to appreciate the Christmas lights in Settle. A good effort by a team of volunteers, of which I used to be one. A thankless task, especially taking them down early January in lashing rain.

Friends tell me that the Flying Scotsman, or some such , came through Settle a few days ago
 the state of the NHS - Fullchat
We were staying at a HF Holiday hotel near Airton. They bused us to Clapham for the Ingleborough climb so we by-passed Settle both ways on the 65.

Would have loved to see the Flying Scotsman.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> >> babies bowel !!
>> Golly!
>> Does this mean you're in nappies

Possibly at some point, depends how good I was with my pelvic floor exercises,

Ironic really, I am surrounded by altziemers cases
 the state of the NHS - Duncan
>> Ironic really, I am surrounded by altziemers cases

Just like C4P then?
 the state of the NHS - Zero
I didn't like to say that
 the state of the NHS - bathtub tom
>> Ironic really, I am surrounded by altziemers cases
>> Just like C4P then?

I object to that, although I do have this condition that makes me forget stuff - can't remember what it's called.
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> Ironic really, I am surrounded by altziemers cases

Same when I broke my hip in 2012. Apart from one other bloke who'd been in an accident everybody else was over 80.
 the state of the NHS - henry k
>> Ironic really, I am surrounded by altziemers cases
>>
A nice variety of ones possible future ?

I hope you get chucked out asap. ( In the nicest possible way. )
Good luck with the exercises and I hope you will be back on the rails.
 the state of the NHS - tyrednemotional
>>
>> Ironic really, I am surrounded by altziemers cases
>>

...that's Christmas for you; I think someone has bought me a case as well.

;-)
 the state of the NHS - Zero
Medically, it's not going smoothly here and won't be out as soon as I hoped

But a doc came round with proxy voting forms, so wifey is voting for me
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
Sorry to here that. Hope things get sorted soon I guess you’ll be following the election coverage through the night
 the state of the NHS - R.P.
Thoughts with you Zero
 the state of the NHS - Duncan
Good luck.
 the state of the NHS - Kevin
Zero has been sedated while the election results come in. They will reassess the dosage in the morning.
 the state of the NHS - Runfer D'Hills
Can you get the exhaust note tuned so it sounds sportier Z?
;-)
 the state of the NHS - tyrednemotional
....sounds to me like he'd have been better with twin pipes.....
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
Returning to the OP get ready for a tough winter in the NHS.

I expect the traditional targets will get dumped faster than making the switch from RPI to CPI for austerity.

Corbyn would have been better going for an early Jan election, but no-one can accuse him of having his finger on the pulse of the world outside his bubble.
 the state of the NHS - tyrednemotional
...I don't think Labour had much choice about the timing, did they.

As I remember it, having resisted Boris's call since it started, the LDs and SNP both decided they would support a December election (based on the simple majority "notwithstanding" motion).

Labour were then caught in a position where the election would happen, and they would be accused of being "frit" because they opposed it.

The SNP subsequently "rowed back" somewhat on their stance, but the LDs didn't, and that was still just about enough on the numbers game to get the motion carried regardless.

Got a lot to answer for, those LDs (again).
 the state of the NHS - Zero
Well I am at that stage where recovery can be managed at home and I am medically fit enough to be discharged with little risk of readmission

So far there has been no doctor or specialist round to sign that off

So here I lay blocking a bed in a way that probably stopped me getting here in the first place

Discharge is chaotic and uncoordinated, I've seen enough in the last 6 days and experienced it last time round myself to realise it's a contributory factor
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 15 Dec 19 at 14:24
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
Good luck. Hope it's all improvement from here on.
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
>> So far there has been no doctor or specialist round to sign that off

Could be due to them reducing hours so as not to get a whopping tax bill for breaking pension limits.

My wife's haematology consultant has reduced her hours* at age 41 for the same reason.


*To 10 half-days per week.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 15 Dec 19 at 15:27
 the state of the NHS - Duncan
>> Well I am at that stage where recovery can be managed at home and I
>> am medically fit enough to be discharged with little risk of readmission

If you want owt at home give me a shout.

Who is walking Woofy?
 the state of the NHS - Zero
I have a tracker on the Beemer, so you can forget it
 the state of the NHS - Duncan
Excuse me, young man, I operate a Mercedes-Benz.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
Eggsaccly
 the state of the NHS - Zero
So here in hospital I decided to watch Guy Martin's great escape

He explained what he intends to do, that he is a siiit bike jumper, and looks at the camera and says
" I can smell hospital already"

Tea bed sheets change moment

Embarrassing, it's visiting hour

 the state of the NHS - Haywain
"Discharge is chaotic and uncoordinated,"

Usually you are kept hanging about for the pharmacist to show up.
 the state of the NHS - tyrednemotional
>> "Discharge is chaotic and uncoordinated,"
>>


...oops! I thought he was describing his condition.....

;-)
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> Usually you are kept hanging about for the pharmacist to show up.

Not just in NHS. Exactly that at private place where my Mother had her cataracts done.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
>> ....sounds to me like he'd have been better with twin pipes.....

Unequal length pipes sound a little strange
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
I guess right now you'd know that better than the rest of us.
 the state of the NHS - tyrednemotional
....I just hope they haven't used exhaust bandage to fix him.....
 the state of the NHS - legacylad
Talking of exhausts, was it Orwell who said “4 pipes good, 2 pipes bad”. Even my girly car has the correct number Zeddo.
Hope you get out soon and make a good recovery.
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
4 pipes good 2 pipes better if you take Orwell to conclusion.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 15 Dec 19 at 20:16
 the state of the NHS - Ambo
I have 12 types of medication, in single, double or "as and when" doses. To save money wasted on over-ordering, my GP surgery instituted an online ordering service. This lists each item and shows when it can be re-ordered (I have managed to synchronise them so that only one collection every two months is needed).

The orders are passed to the pharmacy in the same building. If for some reason I have enough of particular items in hand I omit then from the list. This happens when a dose is suspended for some medical reason, or items such as inhalers are out of use due to weather conditions. It makes no difference - I get the lot, regardless.

This has happened several times and I can't find out why. The pharmacy apologised. My wife collected the latest order yesterday. Perhaps as a recompense, I found it had added anther two-month supply of an item I had expressly omitted. They had already told me that Items returned had to be destroyed, since their origin could no longer be certified. I now have nearly enough stock to open my own pharmacy.

I wonder how widespread this practice is; it seems an odd way to save money.
 the state of the NHS - VxFan
My repeat medication is also ordered on-line though my GP surgery website, and then gets sent to the pharmacy in the same building.

I only get supplied with what I have requested from the list.
 the state of the NHS - Zero
Mine wrks fine,, I go on-line, reorder as and when required, pickup at the chemist 4 days later.

If i need to change, delete or add, I phone up the pharmacy co-ordinator at the health centre.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 17 Dec 19 at 11:40
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> Mine wrks fine,, I go on-line, reorder as and when required, pickup at the chemist
>> 4 days later.

That's how mine works too. Only covers two regular meds and one of those is something Alendronic Acid prescribed after I broke my hip. Faff to take and I was somewhat alarmed by possible side effects so in practice I've never ordered it.

I paused the other in summer as anxiety it was for seemed better but I've resumed in last two weeks. Will be interesting to see if I can just repeat or whether I need a consultation.

They won't put some stuff, like codeine for back pain on repeat - I have to to a telephone consultation when problem recurs to get that.

Still, it's all free from now on (60).
 the state of the NHS - Ambo
>>...Alendronic Acid prescribed after I broke my hip. Faff to take and I was somewhat alarmed by possible side effects so in practice I've never ordered it.

You avoid thus another problem with it - it makes tooth extraction harder. The only "Faff" I get with it is the need to remain upright for at least 30 minutes after taking. I haven't experienced any other side effects although reading the leaflets with my dozen medicaments I find several items that should not in theory be taken with others.
 the state of the NHS - VxFan
>> Still, it's all free from now on (60).

Free for diabetics too. Don't have to wait until you're 60.
 the state of the NHS - Manatee
>> My repeat medication is also ordered on-line though my GP surgery website, and then gets
>> sent to the pharmacy in the same building.
>>
>> I only get supplied with what I have requested from the list.

Same here although I have mine sent to a satellite surgery. I have four drugs and for one of them I only take half a tablet, so I omit that every other four week period as they come in 28s.

I can get away with ordering a day or two early which has the effect of bringing forward the next ordering date so I can build up a buffer which I like to maintain at around a month. The system doesn't recognise 'tablet anxiety' - when you take what is for you a life saving drug, getting down to a day or two's supply is actually stressful.

I take mine religiously notwithstanding some bearable side effects, and my recovery has been far better than was expected which is due solely to drug therapy. I was very surprised to discover during the group discussions at cardiac rehab how many people say "I'm on such and such a drug but I don't take them because they make me cough/ache/sleepy/nauseated" or whatever. I imagine some of them build up cupboards full.
 the state of the NHS - Duncan
>> It makes no difference - I get
>> the lot, regardless.
>>
>> This has happened several times and I can't find out why. The pharmacy apologised. My
>> wife collected the latest order yesterday.

Why not get the pharmacy to check the contents of the package before they hand it over?

That's what I do.......
 the state of the NHS - smokie
My surgery will only give 1 month supply at a time except in special circumstances. If I am ordering early/extra I add a comment to the online form.

Mine are automatically sent to Tesco for dispensing. It used to take a couple of days but the last few times I have had the text from Tesco to say they are ready late ion the same day as the request went it.

Maybe twice in the last year Tesco didn't have the prescribed smaller size of a cream which I intermittently need. Both times they simply gave me the (much) larger size... Also I got some gout tablets and they gave me a small bottle full instead of the 6 which I normally get but that was a mistake on the prescription.


As an aside, I recently saw the locum for something and he reviewed my drugs and was surprised I have been ion Omeprazole for many years. He recommended against it due to side effects and interactions, which I then read about, and as result I'm trying to wean myself off it but it would be good to get something else to relieve the symptoms (quite severe reflux).
 the state of the NHS - No FM2R
I go to the doctor and get a printed prescription. Typically a prescription covers 3 - 6 months, and in my case 5 different drugs.

I take that in person with my ID to the insurance company who register it and tell me which pharmacy chain I must use.

The pharmacy's computer computes the daily dosage for each drug, the quantity it is supplied in, and the date that a refill will be due. I must pick it up on that day or within 3 days afterwards. On that day I walk in, show my ID and get handed whatever the computer says I should be handed.

Consequently with the variations in dosage and packet quantities you can be pretty sure that each drug is on a different day and it is almost impossible to synchronise them.

One month before the end of the prescription period I then have to repeat the whole process from the beginning.

If you're leaving the country for a period, tough s***. The drug refill dates wait for no man, and most certainly cannot be moved closer to give you a travel supply.
 the state of the NHS - sooty123
We've got a pharmacy in the same building as all the Drs. Makes things much easier, we can get upto 6 months supply at a time.
 the state of the NHS - Bromptonaut
>> We've got a pharmacy in the same building as all the Drs. Makes things much
>> easier, we can get upto 6 months supply at a time.

Ours has a village pharmacy attached which provides OTC medicine and stuff like toothbrushes, soap etc you'd expect. It's also more recently provided a home for the Post Office. Prescriptions go straight through and can be collected as soon as you walked round from the consulting rooms.

However for some reason patients from other villages still have to use the dispensary within the surgery which everyone used until the pharmacy was built.

Assume reason is money.
 the state of the NHS - bathtub tom
I take a couple of drugs, one's supplied in 28 day cycles the other (much more expensive and foreign sourced, in 30 day cycles). Because of brexit I've been ordering both regularly and I now find find I've a 4 month supply of the most expensive, compared to a 2 month supply of the cheaper.
I'm not telling my surgery.

All are well within date.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Tue 17 Dec 19 at 16:35
 the state of the NHS - smokie
"We've got a pharmacy in the same building as all the Drs. "

We have that too but it's in the middle of town and I am in Tesco more frequently than I am at the doctor.

There are also now a choice of suppliers who will deliver to your door, for no cost I believe. There must be money in dispensing!!
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 17 Dec 19 at 16:30
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
I don’t have any medication for anything, probably because it’s nigh on impossible to get a Doctor’s appointment in these parts. I guess the system is working :-)
 the state of the NHS - sooty123
>> I don’t have any medication for anything, probably because it’s nigh on impossible to get
>> a Doctor’s appointment in these parts. I guess the system is working :-)

Funnily enough i rang up today at around 3pm got in at 9.30 tomorrow morning. Must have been lucky ;-)
 the state of the NHS - sooty123
We have that too but it's in the middle of town and I am in
>> Tesco more frequently than I am at the doctor.


Ah right, I dont have anything on repeat prescription so it's a Drs visit each time first.


>> There are also now a choice of suppliers who will deliver to your door, for
>> no cost I believe. There must be money in dispensing!!


We don't have anything like that.
 the state of the NHS - smokie
You do, if you have repeats...for instance

tinyurl.com/w2zbbft

tinyurl.com/t4t6ggz

But when writing that I was thinking of a van service I've seen buzzing around here, which may just be the local chemists.
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 17 Dec 19 at 17:27
 the state of the NHS - zippy
A&E last week:

Case 1- an 85 year old woman presents herself. She has a cold. Temperature normal. Otherwise fit and healthy, even spritely. Wants to be "looked after". Does not live alone. No evidence of abuse.

Social services called. Can they look after her? No, she owns her substantial home and has enough cash for a new BMW in her current account and would need to pay towards accommodation and doesn't want to. Sent home.

Case 2 - A domestic violence case brought in by ambulance, a seriously cut and bruised accountant. After 8ish hours the consultant discharges the patient home despite protests from Miss Z as patient is in fear for their life. Social services manage to find safe accommodation. Police advised. Nothing expected to happen.

Case 3 - Toddler is ill and is rushed to A&E by parents. It doesn't look good and Miss Z is on the phone to London hospitals to find a specialist unit with a bed. At last a place is found and an air ambulance is called but the toddler dies just as it arrives. Consultant, Miss Z and nurses all shaken. Mother collapses and is admitted, understandably. (Parents have done nothing wrong.)

All the staff in the department seem to be constantly "exhausted".

The hospital failed to meet all of its waiting time targets for the last couple of months and just doesn't have enough bays to cope.
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 17 Dec 19 at 19:47
 the state of the NHS - zippy
Christmas ruined


There is a spate of illness on A&E at the moment and shifts have been re-drawn and the troops are very unhappy.

Daughter is now working 21:00 Christmas Eve to 08:30 Christmas Day, then 21:00 Christmas Day to 08:30 Boxing Day and the same for the rest of next week.

She wont be home for Xmas so we will probably go down to see her on the 27th.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 19 Dec 19 at 01:58
 the state of the NHS - Manatee
>> Christmas ruined
>>
>>
>> There is a spate of illness on A&E at the moment and shifts have been
>> re-drawn and the troops are very unhappy.

Norovirus? There's a warning notice in the doctor's although I don't know anybody affected.
 the state of the NHS - zippy
>> Norovirus? There's a warning notice in the doctor's although I don't know anybody affected.
>>

Yes and flu despite most staff getting the jab!
 the state of the NHS - Lygonos
In a good year the flu jag covers about 50% of the influenza strains in the community.

Does hee-haw for colds.

 the state of the NHS - Rudedog
Exactly what I was about to say..

The majority of staff/people going off sick in my hospital haven't had flu even though that is the condition hitting the headlines, most have coughs and colds.

The vaccine is being pushed as the silver bullet over basic hygiene... washing hands, covering your mouth when coughing, using tissues and throwing them away, where has the information about 'coughs and sneezes spread diseases' gone?, it's probably easier to push the injection to the public.

The flu vaccine is based on last years strain so will always be an educated 'guess'.
 the state of the NHS - CGNorwich
By all accounts this years vaccine is a pretty good match for the virus currently circulating. It does seem amazing that so many healthcare staff don’t get vaccinated.
 the state of the NHS - zippy
>> By all accounts this years vaccine is a pretty good match for the virus currently
>> circulating. It does seem amazing that so many healthcare staff don’t get vaccinated.
>>

Daughter said they had a posse armed with the jab and stickers “I’ve been vaccinated” stickers. Getting as many staff as they could.

Work have paid for all of us to get done at a local pharmacies, I need to get mine done!

A few years ago my GP did me when I had my sleeve rolled up after a blood pressure check - without asking! Said he was paid for each one and had a quota! I was too dumbfounded to be annoyed and he was a very good GP otherwise (shame he retired after the local health authority said his practice was too small and the partners weren’t in a position to invest further). We now have a “Virgin” practice and a six week appointment delay and you never get to see the same GP.
 the state of the NHS - Manatee
>> We now
>> have a “Virgin” practice and a six week appointment delay and you never get to
>> see the same GP.


That can't be right. Boris said the NHS would never be privatized.
 the state of the NHS - zippy
Miss Z knew it would be an interesting night last night in A&E when she arrived at work half an hour early to see a helicopter landing.

Waiting time was 10 hours for all but the most serious patients.

Locums were called to take up the slack and were offered £67 an hour. Not one accepted! The Trust refused to offer more.

Two other junior doctors went home halfway through the shift. One fainting from exhaustion and one started throwing up on patients.

Spoke to her again this morning as she walked back to her car. She was in very high spirits despite two young people dying on her. Puts everything in to perspective.

Still an awful lot of people turning up in the middle of the night for non-emergency treatment.

She thinks she will sleep well today and is coming home later this week for her delayed Christmas!

 the state of the NHS - Duncan
How is your recovery going, Zero?
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