Non-motoring > The General Election thread - Volume 3   [Read only]
Thread Author: VxFan Replies: 112

 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - VxFan

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 4 *****

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Carrying on from where Vol 2 finished.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 13 Dec 19 at 11:01
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - No FM2R
Having gone to all the hassle of getting myself registered to vote I'm not going to do so.

I'm not a believer in tactical voting, I prefer to vote for what I want. But none of them are offering what I want, certainly not their leadership.

There should be an extra box on the bottom which says;

"None of the useless b******s".
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Manatee
I can understand a principled objection to voting tactically if there's a candidate you would like to be elected, when you should vote for them. But if you don't like any of them, it seems OK to vote to avoid getting the one you most dislike.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - No FM2R
Difficult to know which to fear the most....

Lib Dem - Tim Bearder
Green - Ian Middleton
Conservative - Victoria Prentis
Labour - Suzette Elizabeth Watson

Still 50/50 on Brexit, 75% turnout last time, and a 12,000 / 15% majority for Conservative.

I suspect that they won't miss me.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Lygonos

One of my colleagues is a died-in-the wool Conservative voting Yorkshireman and he's saying exactly the same as you, NoFM2R.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Kevin
>Having gone to all the hassle of getting myself registered to vote I'm not going to do so.

I am a Yorkshireman who dresses to the right Lygonos but I feel the same.

I can't vote Tory because I don't trust Johnson. I can't vote Labour because Corbyn, McDonnell and their Union pals are complete communist nut jobs who would destroy the economy. The LibDems and Greens don't have a cat-in-hell's chance of taking this safe Tory seat so I'm going to spoil my ballot and write "None of these !£&%&*)".

Unfortunately there is no Monster Raving Loony candidate because they seem to be the only party with believable policies and a leader who could improve our standing on the world stage.
Last edited by: Kevin on Fri 6 Dec 19 at 00:24
      1  
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Lygonos

>> I can't vote Tory because I don't trust Johnson

Check this out....


www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI87PRgIKks
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - henry k
>> >> I can't vote Tory because I don't trust Johnson
>>
>> Check this out.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI87PRgIKks
>>
and this
Andrew Neil issues interview challenge to Johnson
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50679252
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Duncan
I don't really expect to trust a politician.

If he/she isn't untrustworthy then he isn't doing the job properly. They are up there with estate agents and used car salesmen. I expect not to trust them, but I want a bit of subtlety. Johnson has no subtlety. He is so obviously a liar. Blair was a good liar.

Corbyn frightens me, he is so extreme.

Swinson? Who?

Johnson (Dominic Raab in Esher) is the least worst of a bad bunch.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Zero
I have abandoned the future of this country. 52% of the electorate are idiots who shouldn't be given a vote, subsequently all of us are being offered the choice between two other idiots to run the country for the next 5 years
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Robin O'Reliant
I've been listening to an interview with Jo Whatshername, the Lib Dem leader on Woman's Hour. My God, she is utterly clueless. It was like a satirical comedy sketch, particularly her policy on allowing anyone to self identify as a member of the opposite sex purely on request. What could possible go wrong?

I've got my application for the Girl Guides in front of me now.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Manatee
I heard that too Robin, TBH I was on Swinson's side on that question although she didn't debate it well. It was a daft line of questioning other than as a stick to beat the interviewee with. People already do self-identify and have done for many years. Over 20 years ago a male work colleague announced he was having a fortnight's holiday and when he came back he would be living as a woman. That is exactly what he/she did, and the women weren't too happy about her using their toilets. In fact it was (some of) the women who were more or less persecuting her.

Places like women's refuges presumably need a policy to keep people safe whether the threat is male or female. Granted it would be rare for the threat to be a woman but if one turned up waving an axe, whether they were trans/self-identified or whatever, I hope they would not let them in.

There are apparently legal complications. Legislate for them if necessary.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - tyrednemotional
>>
>> I've got my application for the Girl Guides in front of me now.
>>

...are they going to allow you to identify as 70 years younger, as well....


:-O
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Bromptonaut
>> her policy on allowing anyone to self identify as a member of the opposite sex
>> purely on request. What could possible go wrong?

As pointed out below there is nothing now to stop people living in their acquired gender at will. Indeed they have to do so for two years under the current under the current legislation in order to get the Gender Recognition Certificate that formally recognises the change. I've also been aware of people I worked with making a change. One went the distance with surgery etc the other seemed content to dress androgynously and use a female name rather than Steve or whatever his birth name was.

When the Gender Recognition Act came in 2004 it seemed a liberal and far sighted piece of law. Since then the world has moved on. A number of its provisions, particularly the requirement for a diagnosis of 'Gender Dysphoria' and evidence of treatment are seen as unduly restrictive and out of step with the science/psychology.

Allowing people to self nominate AND acquire legal status without jumping through legal hoops is what's new. I don't think it's unique to LD's a policy proposition.

If we go that way then there will need to be some anti-abuse provisions to stop misuse of the provision for voyeurism in changing rooms etc. or to protect the nature of Women's refuges.

LEt's focus on getting those provisions right rather than trying to laugh the whole idea off with jokes about Arthur and Martha.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Roger.
Biology in humans gives rise to two sexes - M & F.
Occasionally there are people born with both female and male genitalia.
Everything else is the product of the mind.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Bromptonaut
>> Biology in humans gives rise to two sexes - M & F.
>> Occasionally there are people born with both female and male genitalia.
>> Everything else is the product of the mind.

Roger you're a Dinosaur.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Roger.
>> >> Biology in humans gives rise to two sexes - M & F.
>> >> Occasionally there are people born with both female and male genitalia.
>> >> Everything else is the product of the mind.
>>
>> Roger you're a Dinosaur.
>>
Yes, but scientifically, I am right.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Bromptonaut
>> Yes, but scientifically, I am right.

Yes but some people have a mind/balls mismatch.

Would you just dismiss that and tell them to 'get a grip'?
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Lygonos
>>Biology in humans gives rise to two sexes - M & F.
Occasionally there are people born with both female and male genitalia.
Everything else is the product of the mind.

What about these chaps?

www.nhs.uk/conditions/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome/
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Manatee
>> Biology in humans gives rise to two sexes - M & F.
>> Occasionally there are people born with both female and male genitalia.
>> Everything else is the product of the mind.

Yes it's chemicals in the brain. And your point is what?
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Robin O'Reliant
>> >
>>
>>
>> If we go that way then there will need to be some anti-abuse provisions to
>> stop misuse of the provision for voyeurism in changing rooms etc. or to protect the
>> nature of Women's refuges.
>>
>>

And what anti abuse regulations could you put in force that would not be seen as discriminating against those males who decided they were now female?
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Bromptonaut
>> And what anti abuse regulations could you put in force that would not be seen
>> as discriminating against those males who decided they were now female?

I don't think that's beyond the wit of the legal draftsman (or draftsperson).

If they get it wrong the courts will help refine it.

It's really not that difficult.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Manatee

>> And what anti abuse regulations could you put in force that would not be seen
>> as discriminating against those males who decided they were now female?

That was exactly the point that the interviewer was haranguing Swinson about, but that is the nub and ultimately you will probably have some situations where a court would have to decide either before or after the event. I wouldn't expect Swinson to make up the whole thing on the hoof.

Just sweeping the issue under the carpet doesn't solve it either.
       
 Disabled People to be paid less - zippy
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-candidate-suggests-disabled-people-17374111

Wonderful comment by a Tory candidate in the marginal seat of Hastings.

The comments applied to people with learning difficulties "because they don't understand money".

Funnily enough, my understanding is that people with learning disabilities don't get cheaper electricity, rent, food etc.

The connection was to a local café owner who employed her daughter who has learning issues and wanted a therapeutic exemption to the minimum wage, not because "they didn't understand money".

As an aside, our office cleaners are a couple in their mid 20s with downs syndrome. A cheerier couple I have not seen as they work round the office and always take the time to "tell me off" for being a "messy pup" and share pleasantries.
       
 Disabled People to be paid less - Bromptonaut
I could see the case for a limited therapeutic exemption applicable to accredited organisations providing proper and fulfilling training and where there is a prospect of that leading to 'proper' employment at no less than the National Living Wage. It would need to be tightly drawn and regulated so that people like Zippy's office cleaners are not exploited.

There is already a precedent in the apprentice rate in National Living Wage. There is also process in Universal Credit where people who have 'Limited Capacity for Work' can do a few hours a week and still get a reasonable top up from DWP.

Otherwise no.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 6 Dec 19 at 14:45
       
 Disabled People to be paid less - zippy
>>Otherwise no.

Exactly!

And would it lead to people with other classes of disability being discriminated against, pay wise.

One of our senior credit managers has an artificial leg. Should he be paid less because of it? Of course not.
       
 Disabled People to be paid less - Zero

>> One of our senior credit managers has an artificial leg. Should he be paid less
>> because of it? Of course not.

No that would be prosthetic.
      1  
 Disabled People to be paid less - CGNorwich
"Should he be paid less"

if it ended up in a tribunal the company would't have a leg to stand on
      1  
 Disabled People to be paid less - R.P.
They are really arrogant pieces of work. Hope the electorate sees through them.
       
 Disabled People to be paid less - R.P.
Only a slight thread drift. Top class satire and comedy on C4 - The Last Leg.
       
 Disabled People to be paid less - zippy
>>The Last Leg.

Has replaces HAIGNFY in my viewing schedule.

Saw Josh Widdicombe live a short while ago. Poor chap clearly had a routine but didn't get through much of it due to participation from a very strange audience.

A very good show though.

His support act Suzi Ruffell deserves a mention too. She was very funny and her routine included a female medical exam and trainee doctors which had my daughter (a junior doctor) in stitches!
       
 Disabled People to be paid less - R.P.
Same for me. HIGNFY has gone so samey. I saw JW live when I was a steward at the local Theatre...he was very good ! Audience was pretty normal(ish)
       
 Cars & Suffrage - A Boris View - zippy
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-female-suffrage-women-cars-oxford-video-social-media-a9237281.html


I am not sure if this belongs here or on the "Terrible Old Jokes" thread!?
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Manatee
Just had one of the erstwhile Lib Dem crowd round canvassing for the now Independent David Gauke. Chap has switched his voting intentions for tactical reasons as being the best chance of defeating the Conservative candidate.

That's probably the least bad choice for me too, if I don't want to see a Conservative majority, although it's massively uncertain. Gauke had a huge majority as a Tory.

Has anybody tried this? voteforpolicies.org.uk/

It present the policies 'blind' although many are guessable as to which party's they are.

It suggests my best fit on policies is Lib Dem. Worst is Conservative (yes, they scored even worse than the Brexit party for me although I didn't analyse it to death).

The Lib Dems have been bombing us with leaflets. Haven't seen hide or hair of a Conservative, they probably think they have it in the bag. It is astonishing to think that we will have a Conservative government endorsed by 'Tommy Robinson' but not by Major, Heseltine, Ken Clarke or Dominic Grieve.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - sooty123
I've never had a canvasser pitch up and try and convince me one way or the other. The most we'd get is a few flyers through the letterbox.
But I guess the vast majority of seats don't change hands very often do i guess it's all concentrated in where it matters. I've lived for the past 20 years in rock solid Conservative seats as well so they won't expend too much effort.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Haywain
My mate is a fervent Bremainiac because 'leaving the EU will screw the economy', but he is going to vote Labour because 'that's what he's always done'.

His poor brain is as muddled as the F104 pilot who gave up smoking because it might ruin his health.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Manatee
One can sometimes get the right answer for the wrong reasons:)
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Bromptonaut
>> My mate is a fervent Bremainiac because 'leaving the EU will screw the economy', but
>> he is going to vote Labour because 'that's what he's always done'.

Hardly irrational on either count.

>> His poor brain is as muddled as the F104 pilot who gave up smoking because
>> it might ruin his health.

You've got to be of an certain age and field of interest to 'get' that!!!
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Robin O'Reliant
I'm voting Labour because I couldn't stomach Boris. He is completely without principles and is only interested in himself.

Corbyn is silly old prat without a clue, but he is leader in name only. John McDonald is the real driving force in the Labour party, articulate, intelligent and very shrewd. Not everything he wants is my cup of tea, but the Conservatives have moved too far right and we need to swing the pendulum back again. Of course it will swing too far in time as it always does, then time for another change...
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Sun 8 Dec 19 at 20:50
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Haywain
It doesn't give you much incentive to vote, does it, when the choice is between bad, worse, disastrous and catastrophic. I am going to vote for bad.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Robin O'Reliant
I've never known an election where voting is decided on who is the least worst.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Zero
if my op goes as planned tomorrow (or wednesday) I have lost the chance to vote, Deadline for proxy vote application was before my latest hospital admission date.

       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - CGNorwich
We’ll blame you for the result then. Good luck with the Op.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Zero
>> We’ll blame you for the result then.

I'm not sure my spoiled paper "this election is a farce" would have made any difference,
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - henry k
>> I'm not sure my spoiled paper "this election is a farce" would have made any difference,
>>
Such papers gave some of us paper counters a little light relief.
In those days Esher and Walton was not about counting but weighing results. :-)
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Clk Sec
All the very best, Zero.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - neiltoo
>>>All the very best, Zero.

And from me

N
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - commerdriver
>> All the very best, Zero.
>>
and from me
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - zippy
>> >> All the very best, Zero.
>> >>
>> and from me
>>

Ditto the above sentiments Zero!
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Duncan
>> if my op goes as planned tomorrow (or wednesday) I have lost the chance to
>> vote, Deadline for proxy vote application was before my latest hospital admission date.

Let me have your polling card, Z and I will vote on your behalf using my skill, judgement and discretion to choose the most appropriate candidate.

So long as I don't have to turn up at the polling station in that council Beemer.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Ambo
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/uk-opinion-polls-tracker-tories-on-course-to-win-with-their-biggest-majority-since-thatcher/ar-BBXY5lM?ocid=spartandhp

Boris booster.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Robin O'Reliant
The biggest single drawback for Labour is Corbyn. He comes across as being as thick as two short planks with no idea how to win over the undecided voters. Allowing Diane Abbot anywhere other than the furthest back benches proves that as she haemorrhages votes every time she opens her gob. Maybe he's worried about a "Ten times a night Jezza does it in a Lenin cap" front page in the Sun if he upsets her.

Hilary Benn would have been a real threat to the Tories, and I think John McDonald would too. Labour have a history of shooting themselves in the foot with leaders, you'd think they'd learn.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Manatee
Bozo certainly wins on charisma, of a kind. But that's about as good a guide to character as how far apart his eyes are.

Friday is becoming a depressing prospect. When Trump was elected I thought "we could never elect such a nasty piece of work". And here we are.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - DP
>> Hilary Benn would have been a real threat to the Tories, and I think John
>> McDonald would too. Labour have a history of shooting themselves in the foot with leaders,
>> you'd think they'd learn.

Their big mistake was not electing David Miliband, IMO. Credible, articulate and intelligent, and exuding a level of gravitas that his brother, and subsequently Corbyn, could only dream of.

I honestly don't believe either Corbyn or Johnson are fit to govern, albeit for very different reasons, but live in a Tory safe seat so it pretty much doesn't matter what I do on the day. In 2017, the Tory candidate got 65% of the vote. 2nd place was Labour with 17! Accompanying my daughter on her paper round occasionally for a bit of exercise, it's still very much a Daily Mail and Telegraph town, so I don't see this changing.

      1  
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - No FM2R
>>Their big mistake was not electing David Miliband

Absolutely.

>>I honestly don't believe either Corbyn or Johnson are fit to govern,

With you there.

It almost makes you want Blair back.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Lygonos
>>It almost makes you want Blair back.

Indeed. Head and shoulders above the rubbish on offer.

Swinson has managed to make the Lib Dems an irrelevance from a potential position of power-broking.

Lordy she's guff.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - No FM2R
>>>>It almost makes you want Blair back.

>>Indeed. Head and shoulders above the rubbish on offer.

I'd vote for him and his policies. It's the t***s that even a good leader of the Labour party tends to bring with him that are the problem. Gordon Brown as just one example, and there are so many more.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 9 Dec 19 at 20:45
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Robin O'Reliant
My seat was safe Tory with Stephen Crabb having a majority of between four and five thousand in 2015. Last time he scraped back in with one tenth of that total and now it is hard to find anyone with a good word to say about him. He seems to come across as a bit of a brown nose, agreeing whole heartedly with each of the three leaders he has served under despite them having very different views on Brexit, which he campaigned strongly against.

He was in the race to replace David Cameron as leader, but pulled out when well behind and shortly afterwards lost most of his credibility over a sexting scandal involving a teenage girl.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Fullchat
So do you put your traditional voting ahead of your favoured Brexit outcome? Which is more important to you?

I feel remaining in the EU is the most important thing for this country.

As a traditional Tory voter a Tory vote means out (probably).
As a Remainer I should vote Labour for a chance at a referendum. (+ Mrs FC is a WASPI ) and all a future Labour government entails?


       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - No FM2R
>>So do you put your traditional voting ahead

Voting a certain way just because that's what you always do is one of the more ridiculous ways of deciding.

Surely voting according to the issues and promises of the moment is the way to go?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 9 Dec 19 at 20:47
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Lygonos
>>Surely voting according to the issues and promises of the moment* is the way to go?


* that you believe are credible
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - No FM2R
Good point.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 2 - Fullchat
"Surely voting according to the issues and promises of the moment is the way to go?"

I'm with Lygonos.

And have any chance of realistically bearing fruition.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Mon 9 Dec 19 at 21:05
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Kevin
Six more leaflets delivered by postie today. Two from Conservatives, two from LibDems and two from an Independent.

Labour leaflet was last week promising anything if you vote for me. Trump is pulling Boris's strings and Jeremy will negotiate another deal and we'll put that to referendum again.

Tory leaflet just parrots Boris with Get Brexit Done, more frontline cops and a new local hospital.

LibDem is Stop Brexit and Only the LibDems can beat the Tories here. Referendum was 56/43 Leave, candidate has never lived in Hants and local paper has just highlighted that in August he was posting to social media comparing Govt. to Nazi party and saying Johnson was emulating Adolf Hitler.

Independent says that he's lived here for 50 years and the other parties don't care about local issues. He was a UKipper last time around.

Green party are living up to their name so far and refraining from sending out junk mail and nobody has a clue who he is.

It looks like my spoiled ballot with "None of these idiots" (or similar) will be the only way to register my distaste. Still, it's only a 15/20 minute walk and the Met Office is saying the wind gusts will have dropped to 40mph with only heavy showers by 6pm.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - henry k
LD sheet today advertises a meeting tonight with Lord Heseltine along side the LD candidate.
Cobham rugby club is the venue if anyone is interested.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Kevin
I can imagine the scrum to get in. Think I'll take a miss on that.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - DP

>> LibDem is Stop Brexit and Only the LibDems can beat the Tories here. Referendum was
>> 56/43 Leave, candidate has never lived in Hants and local paper has just highlighted that
>> in August he was posting to social media comparing Govt. to Nazi party and saying
>> Johnson was emulating Adolf Hitler.
>>

We had that one as well, and their logic for claiming they were the only party that can beat the Tories was to point to local election results. In the last general election, they were third with 11% of the vote.

The one thing our candidate does have going for him is that he is a local. Born in the town, went to the same secondary school one of my kids goes to, and lives locally. But he doesn’t stand a chance.

Also, even as a Remainer, I am uncomfortable with the Lib Dem policy of simply revoking Article 50. I suspect it’s probably going to play a big part in their failure this week. A shame, as in other respects, I think they have the strongest manifesto of the three, with mostly sensible centre-ish policies that aren’t as reckless and populist as Labour’s, but a bit more socially responsible and more transparent than the Tories. I think they are the closest in terms of what the majority of British people think on many issues, certainly at a time where Labour and the Tories have gone extreme. But I strongly dislike their Brexit policy.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Bromptonaut
>> Also, even as a Remainer, I am uncomfortable with the Lib Dem policy of simply
>> revoking Article 50. I suspect it’s probably going to play a big part in their
>> failure this week. A shame, as in other respects, I think they have the strongest
>> manifesto of the

I think you're right there.

Academically or constitutionally it sort of makes sense to say that a Lib Dem government with an overall majority would have a mandate to revoke Article 50. In practical sense though that would still be 'sticky' as they'd have way less than the 17 million votes cast for leave in the referendum. Quite a lot of vox pops have picked up on that sort of thing.

Realistically they were never going to win a majority. Then add in that some of their pre-coalition strongholds where they hope to make gains are in leave areas like the South West. Even in remain Scotland some of their seats have fishing communities who may be leavers.

It looks like a case of strategy that appeals to the party's centre trumping the tactics needed to pick up real world votes.

Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 10 Dec 19 at 12:06
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Haywain
" In practical sense though that would still be 'sticky' as they'd have way less than the 17 million votes cast for leave in the referendum."

Yes - they would have to change their name to 'the Illiberal Undemocrats' to avoid a confrontation with the trades description act.

And, speaking as someone who veers slightly to the left, anyone who thinks that Boris is emulating Adolf, is off their head.

       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - No FM2R
>>anyone who thinks that Boris is emulating Adolf, is off their head.

Is anybody seriously saying that? Seems a wild accusation at best. Can't have been easy to find the one thing that he's probably not guilty of.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Haywain
"Is anybody seriously saying that? Seems a wild accusation at best."

See Kevin's report of a LibDem post to social media above. Unfortunately, young, impressionable people (Bromp?) take notice of this sort of nonsense. Coco the Clown perhaps, yes; but Adolf - no, I don't think so.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Bromptonaut
>> See Kevin's report of a LibDem post to social media above. Unfortunately, young, impressionable people
>> (Bromp?) take notice of this sort of nonsense. Coco the Clown perhaps, yes; but Adolf
>> - no, I don't think so.

Ignoring the silly personal dig there it's clear there is sensible comparison between Boris and Hitler.

It has been pointed out though that both Boris and Trump are using media and people v parliament/Congress tropes to try and justify overriding or diminishing democratic checks and balances. In that sense they can be seen as taking leaves from the book of various regimes that later became full blown dictatorships.

EDIT: Manatees last para is a better summary than mine above.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 10 Dec 19 at 14:03
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Haywain
"there is sensible comparison between Boris and Hitler"

I'm afraid that my imagination won't stretch that far, bearing in mind that Adolf was a socialist with big ideas for a European superstate.

I'm sure that we can agree on one point though, Beethoven's 9th is a great marching tune.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Bromptonaut
>> "there is sensible comparison between Boris and Hitler"
>>
>> I'm afraid that my imagination won't stretch that far, bearing in mind that Adolf was
>> a socialist with big ideas for a European superstate.
>>
>> I'm sure that we can agree on one point though, Beethoven's 9th is a great
>> marching tune.

As per context of following para that should have read

there is NO sensible comparison between Boris and Hitler
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Manatee
>> " In practical sense though that would still be 'sticky' as they'd have way less
>> than the 17 million votes cast for leave in the referendum."
>>
>> Yes - they would have to change their name to 'the Illiberal Undemocrats' to avoid
>> a confrontation with the trades description act.

Not really, Cons are standing on leaving, Libs are standing on remaining.

It was only a mistake because they will of course lose any votes theymight have picked up from leavers.

The converse isn't true for Con remainers if they are reconciled to the referendum result.

There's nothing undemocratic about the Lib Dems position because they can't enact it unless they have a majority in Parliament, which would be under the present system, democratic...

>> And, speaking as someone who veers slightly to the left, anyone who thinks that Boris
>> is emulating Adolf, is off their head.

Even I would concede he is not the full Adolf package, but the demagoguery has echoes as does the ruthless propaganda and media manipulation. And, frankly, some of the followers. A nasty man, and a nasty party.
      1  
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - No FM2R
>>the demagoguery has echoes as does the ruthless propaganda and media manipulation. And, frankly, some of the followers. A nasty man, and a nasty party.

Not really justifying any real world comparison with Hitler though, surely?

It comes across as just slinging any mud one can find out of desperation. Not that I support Johnson in any way, just not Hitler.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Bromptonaut
>> >>the demagoguery has echoes as does the ruthless propaganda and media manipulation. And, frankly, some
>> of the followers. A nasty man, and a nasty party.
>>
>> Not really justifying any real world comparison with Hitler though, surely?

To be clear, there was a missing word in my earlier post.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - No FM2R
That missing word certainly set me on the wrong track!

Thanks for the clarification.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Haywain
"That missing word certainly set me on the wrong track!"

I just hope that Brompt doesn't do social meeja (other than c4p) - he could inadvertently start a riot.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Kevin
Candidate denied he posted it but has now 'apologised unreservedly'. Don't these people realise that these things can come back to haunt them?

Link to article in local Gazette.

tinyurl.com/stlpu5c
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Manatee
>> >>the demagoguery has echoes as does the ruthless propaganda and media manipulation. And, frankly, some
>> of the followers. A nasty man, and a nasty party.
>>
>> Not really justifying any real world comparison with Hitler though, surely?

Certainly hyperbolic but Johnson hasn't been PM for 5 years yet! But not a comparison I would have used.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - No FM2R
>> www.swapmyvote.uk/

Surely open to abuse?
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - sooty123
Seems to me about as clever to compare hitler to the pm as those that try to compare corbyn to mao or witter on about him wanting to turn the country into Venezuela.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Manatee
>> Seems to me about as clever to compare hitler to the pm as those that
>> try to compare corbyn to mao or witter on about him wanting to turn the
>> country into Venezuela.

Well put.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - sooty123
What's people's idea on what the likely outcome (rather than what you want) of the GE will be?

I'm going with a 25 seat conservative majority.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - CGNorwich
Think it will be a bit more than that. 45 seat Con majority is my guess although would like no overall majority. Voted Labour today. Norwich North is a marginal seat with a 500 vote Con majority. Lib Dems have no chance here
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Robin O'Reliant
Hung Parliament or a tiny Labour majority.

Provided the younger voters have actually got off their backsides this time.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - CGNorwich
Been raining here most of the day and still lashing down. Turnout of oldies down I guess
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Robin O'Reliant
It has been on and off here. I've passed a few polling stations and they've been quite busy.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Robin O'Reliant
High turnout predicted -

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/12/britain-votes-in-high-stakes-election-result-remains-unpredictable
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - sooty123
Very quiet at our local polling station, i was the only person in there when I voted. A couple of others left when I was leaving, but that's normal it's normally quiet.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - VxFan
>> It has been on and off here. I've passed a few polling stations and they've been quite busy.

Put my postal vote in over a week ago. Why are so many people still using polling stations?
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - No FM2R
>> Why are so many people still using polling stations?

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/258370
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - VxFan
>> >> Why are so many people still using polling stations?
>>
>> petition.parliament.uk/petitions/258370

Well, the polling station is virtually opposite my house, but I still prefer the postal vote route.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Haywain
"Voted Labour today. "

It takes guts to admit that you voted for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Bromptonaut
>> "Voted Labour today. "
>>
>> It takes guts to admit that you voted for Diane Abbott as Home Secretary.

Her or Pritti Patel.

Muck or nettles?
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Haywain
"Muck or nettles?"

You can keep the muck, but I will settle,
.... for grasping the nettle.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Fullchat
Be very quiet until after 5 when all the Tory voters finish work :]]
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - sooty123
>> Be very quiet until after 5 when all the Tory voters finish work :]]
>>

Most pensioners don't work ;)
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - sooty123
Bbc say a majority of 86.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Duncan
This is obviously a massive personal victory for Boris Johnson,

however, equally a huge personal defeat for Jeremy Corbyn, perhaps a little less so for his deputy, John McDonnell.

Subject of course to the exit poll being accurate.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Roger.
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.
:-)
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - No FM2R
Presumably so, if the only thing you care about is Brexit, whether or not you understand it.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - CGNorwich
The interesting thing is what sort of Brexit does Johnson really want. A large majority gives him a lot more freedom to act and the DUP and ERG will no longer gave the power to influence policy in the way they have had to date.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - No FM2R
I'm not really sure how much he cares. The least Brexit possible I'd guess.

He wants to be a hero to Leave supporters by leaving then a hero to Remainers by limiting it.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - CGNorwich
My view is that he will go go a fairly soft version of Brexit. Nothing now to be achieved by damaging the economy more than is inevitable. Ironic really, we will end up with the sort of deal we could have had three years ago.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - smokie
I'm off to bed but will have the phone on by the bedside to check progress once in a while.

I postal-voted LD as a "tactical" vote (as I don't much care for BJs style, nor my local MP - John Redwood) before going to Egypt, then regretted it out there. But I wanted to vote for someone and I deffo couldn't have voted for JC.

I am glad that it seems that a party will be in power with a decent enabling majority, and I am now glad it is the Tories rather than any of the others. I just hope that they can do something positive about all manner of stuff once BREXIT is on track, NHS being at the top of my wishlist.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - R.P.
Same here. The sitting Tory (he does little else) could only be ousted by a tactical vote to Labour. Couldn't have done it. I would have done it under Miliband. Guess they chose the wrong brother.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - No FM2R
>>My view is that he will go go a fairly soft version of Brexit

I should think that you're correct. I also think that the messages he's been counting on and the support he's been chasing, beyond the traditional Tory voter, is probably not the most discerning of audience and won't notice. .
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 13 Dec 19 at 01:31
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - CGNorwich
I’m not sure that most who voted for Brexit had much idea of what sort of Brexit they wanted anyway. A tick in the box “Brexit Achieved’ will suffice for most.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - No FM2R
Agreed.
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Lygonos
Looks like Ruth Davidson's going skinny-dipping with Nessie

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18093584.ruth-davidson-skinny-dip-loch-ness-snp-win-50-seats/
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 13 Dec 19 at 01:58
       
 The General Election thread - Volume 3 - No FM2R
Poor Nessie.
       
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