| Non-motoring > Probate question | Legal Questions |
| Thread Author: legacylad | Replies: 15 |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 16:10
Probate question - legacylad
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My ex FiL died several weeks ago, leaving everything in his will to his surviving spouse. Sadly, she suffered a stroke 10 years ago and has been disabled every since. The few words she utters are gibberish, throws things, incontinent, and probably was the primary cause of the death of my ex FiL. My ex has been in touch with my solicitor, and advised me that said solicitor has quoted £6/8k to do probate. I always thought that probate was only necessary upon the death of the surviving spouse. The estate can’t be that complicated...a large rambling old house, from which the selfish oldies refused to move ( 5 double beds, tennis court etc with self contained flat let out to friends) and a few savings, which will soon disappear as surviving ex MiL still refuses to move so my ex, after living in the old place for 2 months caring for her mother, consequently putting a huge strain on her relationship, and decluttering 40 years of stuff, now has a rota of live in carers. She’s emotionally at her wits end...mother screams if she stops at red traffic lights, tries to jump out of the car sometimes when moving, so has asked for my advice re probate. Selfish, but glad I’m out of it. |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 16:19
Probate question - Bromptonaut
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Did FiL leave a will and if so who is the executor? Probate would be needed but if it's simply a question of transferring assets to surviving spouse (give or take any legacies) it shouldn't be difficult to do. £8k looks a lot. It's cost us about £10k for professional executor to do my Mothers and there was a lot of legwork there because of lifetime gifts and IHT. |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 16:21
Probate question - Bromptonaut
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Next thought is that if the widow lacks capacity what is in place to manage her affairs? |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 16:36
Probate question - zippy
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If the solicitor is executor, they can charge a fortune. Solicitors easily charge £400 per hour! So, when my Aunt passed away my parents acted as executor and if they can do it, anyone can! They did speak to a good local solicitor for advice who quoted several thousand and the worst was the Co-op who wanted over £10k (plus VAT) on a £70k estate!!! The solicitor gave good advice: Do all of the leg work and he could look over it for a smaller fee or do it your self and get advice from the local probate office and he gave them their number and a guide on how to do probate. The probate office were always ready to help and even "hand hold" where required. It was about a weeks work, perhaps a week and a half, including letter writing to building societies, banks, insurance companies and utilities (some are better than others). A couple of trips to the probate office were needed to sort papers and seek face to face advice and then once more to take an executors oath. |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 16:51
Probate question - No FM2R
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>>Next thought is that if the widow lacks capacity what is in place to manage her affairs? And therein lies the likely problem. If the lady is not capable of agreeing with when your Ex stops at a red light, she's not likely to agree with anything she does in connection with this will. Do everything you can in accordance with ex F-i-L will, if not in the will in accordance with his likely wishes, and if neither then straight down the line. The odd extra thousand is simply not going to matter in the context of an older lady soon to need care. And as Bromp says, how are her current affairs being managed? Something OFFICIAL and DOCUMENTED needs to be in place. Goodness knows I am on the bring of this myself, it's ugly. But the more that can be documented and done officially and the fewer ad-hoc decisions or opinions that are used the better. Everything will rise up to bite your ex in the future. She needs to minimise that now for her own sanity in the future. |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 17:20
Probate question - Bromptonaut
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>> Everything will rise up to bite your ex in the future. She needs to minimise >> that now for her own sanity in the future. Does the ex have siblings and if so are they 100% same place/same hymn sheet as she is? The most bitter disputes I saw in ten or so years working in the Court of Protection were rooted in sibling disagreements. Several were in cases where there wasn't even money beyond benefit income and tiny savings. |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 17:25
Probate question - henry k
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>> Next thought is that if the widow lacks capacity what is in place to manage her affairs? >> I am exploring that topic but re SWM(used to)BO :-( www.aprilking.co.uk/court-of-protection-deputy/ |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 16:51
Probate question - Zero
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| Its a simple estate, probate is easy. Did my mothers estate myself, just requiring minimum research on the web, and the probate service provides plenty of guidance. |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 17:06
Probate question - Bromptonaut
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>> Its a simple estate, probate is easy. Did my mothers estate myself, just requiring minimum >> research on the web, and the probate service provides plenty of guidance. What Z says is quite right. Mrs B was executor for her Mother's. House had been sold some years previously so just cash in bank(s) way less than IHT limit. Simple two way split with brother. I did the legwork, Mrs B just swore the affidavit with a solicitor in Towcester. Job jobbed in a couple of months. The most difficult bit was transferring money to her brother's bank as he lives in Ireland. We kept a solicitor on as co-exec for my Mother's. That was more complex with a flat, investments and a sum that needed careful naivigation through IHT stuff. She quoted a fixed price and has stuck to it in spite of complications/hours of leg work sorting out lifetime gifts. |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 17:14
Probate question - legacylad
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My ex FiL left a will. Everything goes to his surviving spouse. My ex is the sole executor, which I’ve confirmed. My ex has had P of Attorney over her parents finances for several years. FiL turned into a semi alcoholic and was happy to let the crumbling pile fall down around their ears...my ex, an only child, had to sort all tradesmen ( new roof, gutters, dodgy old electrics and old plumbing, squirrels inside chewing wires, boiler the size of a large tent in the cellar) gardener, cleaners. Sorted all household repairs...how anyone could break white goods on a weekly basis is beyond me. She’s managed their finances and paid for all above repairs out of her parents bank account. Finances are straightforward...one private pension, State Pension, disability allowance. All Rental income from friends in the self contained flat, which is minimal, is spent on gardener, cleaner, building maintenance etc Seems very straightforward to me. The incredibly hard part is dealing with my ex MiL who is severally mentally & physically disabled and refuses to go into a home. If she was my mum she’d have no choice. |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 17:40
Probate question - Bromptonaut
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>> My ex FiL left a will. Everything goes to his surviving spouse. My ex is >> the sole executor, which I’ve confirmed. In administrative terms that's about as simple as it gets. Close his bank accounts that's likely to need probate and sort out joint ones - they may pass by survivorship but check. Probably best to transfer house into Mother's sole name but perhaps take advice on that. Some admin around pensions too, ditto utilities. If she can face that and deal with it AND her Mother then all well and good. There's pleant of advice on net as you might expect I'll sign to thos one: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/dealing-with-the-financial-affairs-of-someone-who-has-died/ Which? used to do book on subject which was well regarded. If Mother is going to make it difficult then perhaps ex should tell Mum a white lie that task is beyond her and get a professional to do it. She can then deflect to them when Mum kicks off. Only you and she know if that's worth paying £6k for. If you use a professional try and get a fixed price and keep him on his toes - quiet clients = quiet files. >> My ex has had P of Attorney over her parents finances for several years. If she had PoA for Father she should let OPG know of his death. Does PoA for Mother extend to Health and Welfare as well as Finances? |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 18:29
Probate question - legacylad
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Thanks for the detailed advice folks....I’ll pass it on. As my ex I could say “stuff it” but life’s too short for bitterness so I’ll help where I can. And if she croaks before me I’ve told her not to leave her 18yo Lexus to me in her will ! |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 20:39
Probate question - Haywain
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We have recently been through the probate process with my late father's estate. He died at the end of June and by the time the funeral had been arranged and previously-arranged holidays had passed, I was able to apply for IHT cert and probate in early September. I did everything online - no printing of forms etc. I understand that this facility has been introduced relatively recently and some of the on-line advice from Which, Moneysavingexpert etc was out of date. Probate was granted exactly 2 months after we applied for it. My father's case was relatively straightforward inasmuch as my mother had predeceased him by several decades and there were no jointly owned assets, trusts or squabbling relatives; the total value of the estate did not reach the IHT level. The fact that LL's ex is sole executor does simplify things a bit as, in our case, my sis and I are both co-executors - so a number of documents have required both our signatures; as we live 130 miles apart, it makes things less convenient. We applied for probate for 3 reasons ....... because there was a house to sell; because there were shares to sell; because there were bank accounts that had to be closed. Different banks have different rules some don't need probate for <15,000, for others, it's <£50.000 and only sight of the death certificate is required. In LL's case, everything is being passed to the widow, including the house so, unless there are shares to be sold and banks that demand probate ......... is there any need to obtain probate? A friend was recently sorting out his mother's estate and he reckoned that the only reason that they had to apply for probate was because NS&I demanded it in order to release a small amount of savings. |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 22:00
Probate question - Terry
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I thought there was a very small limit under which no probate was needed. However in your case this may depend on whether the property is jointly owned, or by your FiL alone. The estate may also be complicated if part of the property has been let - the executor may have to complete income tax returns for the estate in respect of any income. You will also need to agree any final tax due by your FiL. You need to consider the value of the property - being blunt it will form part of the ex-MiL estate and she may not be around for ever. It may also need to be sold if Ex were to suggest she move into a nursing home to cover the fees. You can personally get probate if you want - I did it for both my parents. But bear in mind that (a) a solicitor should be familiar with all the forms and processes, and (b) any complexities will be breaking new ground if Ex or you try to do it. The responsibility that goes with being an executor even with a will and a single beneficiary may not be trivial. As some have suggested you would do well to document all the assets and complexities so that if you approach professionals it should reduce their costs and they can quote a fairly firm price. Be clear what the price includes - probate fees, property valuation costs etc. |
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New Sun 12 Jan 20 22:08
Probate question - James Loveless
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"Its a simple estate, probate is easy." Agree with Z. I did my mother's, filled in a few forms and had to attend probate court briefly. It was very informal. |
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New Mon 13 Jan 20 08:01
Probate question - Bromptonaut
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| Terry makes a valid point, which I'd overlooked, about deceased's tax affairs given income from letting. |
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