Non-motoring > The future of the HJ website? Miscellaneous
Thread Author: VxFan Replies: 100

 The future of the HJ website? - VxFan
Has anyone seen the comment at the foot of the website?

It looks like HonestJohn has called in Administrators.

"The affairs, assets and business of the Company are being managed by Miles Needham and Simon Carvill-Biggs who were appointed Joint Administrators on 7 January 2020.
The Joint Administrators act as agents of the Company and without personal liability"


And the following confirms the appointment of an administrator occurred yesterday.

beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06011794/filing-history
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 13:58
 The future of the HJ website? - bathtub tom
Ironic, as they were discussing us as if they were expecting us to go.
 The future of the HJ website? - Runfer D'Hills
I'd be disappointed if it goes. Still about the best site for reference. I especially like the video tests by the mad Geordie bloke.

But, if the forum members need a new platform, we're all going to have to at least feign some interest in petrol manual Civics. :-p
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero
I draw the line at anyone extolling the virtues of the Matiz.
 The future of the HJ website? - Robin O'Reliant
I've just had a quick look over there and it's funny how none of the posters have mentioned it, unless any such discussion has been blocked.
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
Is it apparent unless you visit the website (as opposed to Forum) and then scroll all the way down the page?

I'd certainly not seen it.

Did VxFan get a tip off that something was afoot (as it were)?

Main shareholder seems to be one Peter Frazer Lorimer. I've seen occasional reference to HJ as Peter. I assume they are one and same.
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
>> I assume they are one and same.

Yes, but he always used to be very sensitive about people making the connection though it became inevitable. Mind you, I haven't seen him in more than 10 years so no doubt I'm out of date about everything.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 15:07
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
>> I've just had a quick look over there and it's funny how none of the
>> posters have mentioned it, unless any such discussion has been blocked.

An 'End is Nigh ?' thread has now been started:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/133998/the-end-is-nigh-

Let's see if it's allowed to stay or whether an 'official statement' follows.
 The future of the HJ website? - Duncan
Also in HJ General Discussion non-motoring

tinyurl.com/u3ytrb9
 The future of the HJ website? - VxFan
Have the mods over there abandoned ship?

There's a spam post from 17:33 yesterday still there offering driving licenses, passports, and IDs.
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero
>> Have the mods over there abandoned ship?
>>
>> There's a spam post from 17:33 yesterday still there offering driving licenses, passports, and IDs.

And a load of idiots have made facetious comments, the locals wont like that.
 The future of the HJ website? - VxFan
>> And a load of idiots have made facetious comments,

Yeah, that bloke knowwun for instance ;)
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
>> >> And a load of idiots have made facetious comments,

Knowwun I know.
 The future of the HJ website? - Runfer D'Hills
>> I draw the line at anyone extolling the virtues of the Matiz.

It's ok Z, I don't think they are compulsory, you are allowed to have a Yaris, or even a Jazz if you need an auto. A Mk1 Focus is acceptable too, or an Avensis, so you're spoiled for choice really.

Definitely not a BMW or a Merc though, they are "money pits"...

;-)
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
I hope that isn't the end, the site has been around a long time, was a leading enterprise in many ways, and at times has been important to me.

I remember something like 20 years ago when HJ and I were sat in a pub near his place discussing his plans for the website. Ambitious was a good word. Going to BCA with him showed me just how little I knew about how those auctions worked.

Quite a mixture, Peter, and never frightened of a challenge. He did achieve many things with HJ. Everything from books, articles, software, forums and how to monetise a website.

Hopefully he is well protected.

Still, Ecclesiastes 3:1 and all that.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 15:04
 The future of the HJ website? - R.P.
As mentioned above - definitely the go-to for honest car reviews. A friend of mine has been contemplating a run-around before Christmas - I naturally sent him the HJ reviews....everything from a Porsche Boxster to a Fiat Panda...! Finally ended up with a nice little MX5 Roadster from 2007. HJ's guide helped him check out the vulnerable areas and what to look for...
 The future of the HJ website? - Runfer D'Hills
I met him quite by accident in a departure lounge at Gatwick once. Just happened to be standing next to him and I sort of recognised the hat. He was a bit grumpy and stand offish but it was very early in the morning and I was a bit like that too.
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
Just returning to those early days as I think about it;

It was always a bit of a battle keeping HJ behind the Backroom, he sometimes saw it as a bunch of work for no revenue. Long discussions about traffic and search engines happened often.

But his determination to have a website which would make him money was admirable. Advertising deals, road tests, various databases, the link to the Telegraph and his books. The data he used to collect about everything.

Bearing in mind that the Internet was a bit of a waste of space in those days. HJ.co.uk and the Backroom was right at the beginning of Internet Forums and Commercially run websites. A lot of things obvious to us now, or even done differently now, were being made up as we/he went along.

I was impressed by him and his drive. For sure he could be difficult, but I guess those two things come in tandem.

He is older than me so I guess he must be knocking on now - 70, perhaps. Perhaps this is part of his exit, it is a limited company. It wasn't set up right at the beginning, it was done when things started going well and a few other things changed. But it's probably 15 good years old now.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 15:21
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
>> He is older than me so I guess he must be knocking on now -
>> 70, perhaps. Perhaps this is part of his exit, it is a limited company.

Some of the documents on Companies House give a DoB in 1949 so 70 is right pretty much exactly 10 years younger than me.

I'm not skilled in reading such things but there are accounts on there; no doubt others here can interpret.
 The future of the HJ website? - R.P.
Had a look - don't feel it's right to discuss the financial aspects here personally. What do the other mods think.
 The future of the HJ website? - tyrednemotional
>> Had a look - don't feel it's right to discuss the financial aspects here personally.
>>
>>

...I'm not sure you could get a definitive answer from the details posted anyway.

(Though there is plenty of scope for conjecture....... ;-) )
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero
>> Had a look - don't feel it's right to discuss the financial aspects here personally.
>> What do the other mods think.

Why not? its a matter of public record, and its not about this site.
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
Agreed, why not. Nothing confidential is being shared, it's all public domain and nobody is being mean.
 The future of the HJ website? - R.P.
I don't know...seems to be like picking over the bones now.
 The future of the HJ website? - Runfer D'Hills
Blimey Bromp, shouldn't you be thinking about retiring fully now? 80 is a hell of an age to be still working...

;-)
 The future of the HJ website? - tyrednemotional
...and he doesn't look a day over 75....
 The future of the HJ website? - Runfer D'Hills
Not sure if he should still be driving really...
;-)
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
>>70 is right pretty much exactly 10 years younger than me.

tickle me, you've had a rough year then.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 19:22
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
Beggar it, I mean of course I am ten years younger than him!!
 The future of the HJ website? - Runfer D'Hills
>> Beggar it, I mean of course I am ten years younger than him!!

Memory going a bit though even so eh?

;-)))
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero
>> >> Beggar it, I mean of course I am ten years younger than him!!
>>
>> Memory going a bit though even so eh?

Hey, bit of respect please for the elderly members of our site.
 The future of the HJ website? - Runfer D'Hills
Pardon? Nearly 4 O'Clock I think, eh?
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
>> Bearing in mind that the Internet was a bit of a waste of space in
>> those days. HJ.co.uk and the Backroom was right at the beginning of Internet Forums and
>> Commercially run websites.

We first got internet (dial up) in 99. As a plane nut I was into PPRuNE like a rat up a drain pipe. Very few other functioning forums at the time.

I think I tried the Backroom at same time but the very early iteration was near unusable - I suggested to HJ that PPRuNE software might be better but then forgot it. Six months later and it was on something similar to what we use now. A lot of us, including myself and Mr O'Reliant, posted using our real names - took a while to find and use a 'handle'.

Otherwise I discussed comings and goings at Leeds Airport, various bike related stuff and Short Wave Radio listening via something called e-groups that eventually became Yahoo groups. Worked by some sort of mass e-mailing. Set up rules in my then e-mail client (outlook express?) to put each subject into its own inbox.

In last week or so I've had messages from Yahoo giving me final chance to download and retain my ramblings from that era. I won't be bothering.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 23:55
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motoringvideo/9586969/Video-the-origins-of-Honest-John.html
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motoringvideo/9587393/Honest-John-what-I-drive.html
 The future of the HJ website? - Bobby
No idea of the workings and revenue of the site however I do wonder how long it will be before advertisers realise that very few folk notice their adverts on websites never mind read them.

No doubt Google tell them their advert has been viewed a billion times though
 The future of the HJ website? - PeterS
>> No idea of the workings and revenue of the site however I do wonder how
>> long it will be before advertisers realise that very few folk notice their adverts on
>> websites never mind read them.
>>
>> No doubt Google tell them their advert has been viewed a billion times though
>>

I only had a cursory glance at the accounts, and was surprised how many people it seemed to employ!! Though it looks like it lost a few hundred us and last year, or that was extracted somehow... PistonHeads seems to have made a better fist of creating a website that actual generates income. Wasn’t it sold to Haymarket...?
 The future of the HJ website? - Duncan
Why has it gone into administration?

His Saturday section in The telegraph must have brought in a serious few quid for little expenditure.

He used to live in Walton on Thames, I understand. Liked to travel to Thailand.
 The future of the HJ website? - PeterS
>> Why has it gone into administration?
>>
>> His Saturday section in The telegraph must have brought in a serious few quid for
>> little expenditure.
>>
>> He used to live in Walton on Thames, I understand. Liked to travel to Thailand.
>>

I suspect, though don’t know, that his fees from the telegraph were not income for honestjohn.co.uk...?
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
>>I suspect, though don't know, that his fees from the telegraph were not income for honestjohn.co.uk...?

I don't know how it is now, but there was another company that used to look after all his publishing. AFAIK, that company remains unaffected.

HJ was always particularly sensitive about his address or even home area becoming known.
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
>> He used to live in Walton on Thames, I understand. Liked to travel to Thailand.

I think his wife is Thai and he spends quite a lot of time there - he's written about Thai cars.
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
Let me repeat, HJ really does not like discussion of his personal life on the internet, albeit that some stuff becomes known. That includes his family, wife, address and all those sorts of things.

Let's try and respect that. It'd be a decent thing to do.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 18:34
 The future of the HJ website? - Robin O'Reliant
On my infrequent looks to HJ since we migrated here I notice he never posts himself now. He used to be a frequent contributor in the past.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 18:43
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
>>He used to be a frequent contributor in the past.

That ages you.

He was a frequent poster in the early years but lost interest in participating in the Backroom quite early on. He understood the need for it but that didn't make him like it.

I don't know when he last posted, but I bet you'd be surprised how long ago it was.
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
>> Let's try and respect that. It'd be a decent thing to do.

Bit of me says Hmmm to that and if I know his wife's Thai etc it's becuase he's told us that much

But if consensus is we 'do the decent thing' I'll speculate no further.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 19:02
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
I have no idea what "hmmm to that" means, I dislike cowardly innuendo, say it or don't.

Respect the approach or don't, your call. We all have our own standards of behaviour to follow.
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
>>Bit of me says Hmmm to that and if I know his wife's Thai etc it's becuase he's told us that much

I missed your edit, and time to do my own.

If you wish to defend discussing something, then don't bother. just discuss it. I realise that knowing stuff and showing off that knowledge is important to you.

I merely said that it would be respectful not to discuss somebody else's personal life on the internet. If you struggle with that idea, then so be it.
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
>> I have no idea what "hmmm to that" means, I dislike cowardly innuendo, say it
>> or don't.

It's ironic. Somebody in very early days of HJ used to use Hmmmm before posting a dissenting opinion. Possibly Toad of Toad Hall, certainly that sort of time.

I'm ambivalent over need to be cautious about posting stuff about HJ; if we know about his wife's nationality it's probably because he's told us.

OTOH you've met the guy and I have not so your judgement may be the better one.

EDIT: Your 19:15 post crossed so above takes no account of it.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 19:20
 The future of the HJ website? - Falkirk Bairn
Back 2/3 months ago there wasa development in lead generation from the HJ site

cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/honest-john-lead-agency-form-exclusive-partnership/180561

 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
>>Hmmmm

Wasn't it Bogush?

As for Toad, I bought a car from him for my Father as a sort of farm/country runaround. A brilliant deal, it lasted for absolutely years.

i had quite the surreal experience buying another car from another member for my sister - quite the amazing coincidental relationship to my own family.

Small woirld.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 14 Jan 20 at 19:28
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
>> >>Hmmmm
>>
>> Wasn't it Bogush?

It may well have been. Point was simply to hark back to that era.
 The future of the HJ website? - Robin O'Reliant
Where are they all now, one wonders?

A reasonable number will no longer be with us as it was never a boy racers forum and a few have had so many name changes it's hard to keep tabs on who was who. There must be quite a few around who just don't bother with any forums at all.
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
>> Wasn't it Bogush?

Twenty years on and I still read that as Bogbrush.
 The future of the HJ website? - VxFan
>> Twenty years on and I still read that as Bogbrush.

I think most people knew him by that name.
 The future of the HJ website? - VxFan
>> Did VxFan get a tip off that something was afoot (as it were)?

I received an email from someone last night asking if I knew what the score was. I don't know any more than anyone else does, other than what's been added to the foot of the website and also posted on Companies House website.

To be honest I haven't visited the HJ site for ages, but have since done so twice in as many weeks because of a post recently mentioning C4P on there, and now this.

It would be sad to see it go. I spent approx. 7 years moderating the Backroom. When I quit, some people mentioned it was to create C4P. Hardly!! The platform was already up and running. It just needed a new home somewhere in cyberspace, which Stephen provided.

History now, and I apologise to those that already know this. I left because of a personality clash with one of the new people HJ had brought on board. HJ trusted me to moderate the BR, and make my own decisions and judgements with little involvement from him. In fact he trusted all the moderators. That however changed when the new people came along and redeveloped the website. The trust was gone, along with being undermined all the time. I no longer enjoyed moderating the BR because of the constant interference. And when it gets to that stage, it's time to leave.

History, like I said.

I've never met HJ, I have however spoken to him on the phone on one occasion years ago regarding a site issue when I think it got a denial-of-service attack.


Mark has asked further up this thread to not discuss HJ's private life. I totally agree with him on that score.

It's not relevant who he is married to, or where he lives, as to the HJ site going into administration. Yes, I'm sure the information is available should someone want to look it up, but lets not make their searching any easier for them. Can we just keep discussion about the site going into administration please.

Finally, if you are by chance reading this HJ (n.b. I've never felt comfortable calling you Peter btw), then whatever happens in the future, I wish you well. Cheers Dynamic Dave.
 The future of the HJ website? - Lygonos
>>Let me repeat, HJ really does not like discussion of his personal life on the internet

Pretty sure his wife appeared in a few of his video reviews when I was a regular (ie before this site was started).
 The future of the HJ website? - The Melting Snowman
I guess just another example of there being too much competition. Lots of motoring websites and user-generated content has sprung up in recent years. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
 The future of the HJ website? - R.P.

Let's try and respect that. It'd be a decent thing to do.

I do, but as you mentioned about the finances of the company's finances his address is in the public domain on the 'net, easily found.
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
>> I do, but as you mentioned about the finances of the company's finances his address
>> is in the public domain on the 'net, easily found.

As is a lot of other information. Same will be true of anyone who has been a Director of one or more companies.
 The future of the HJ website? - helicopter


Looks like HJ set up a new company last month called BPL Ventures in which he is an active director with a company called British Pacific Ltd.

I may be wrong but presumably this company will take over the HJ business.
 The future of the HJ website? - helicopter
Above should read BPPL Ventures , previously known as Honest John Ventures in which HJ was a director with his wife.
 The future of the HJ website? - Avant
I'll repeat on here what I've posted on the HJ site as moderator:

Sorry - I have been away all day yesterday and this morning, and I haven't been told any more than you have.

The object of an administration is to get a company back on its feet again when it has run into financial difficulties (which I haven't been informed about either, although I do know that advertising revenue is the main source of income). Either a company under administrators (who are chartered accountants) is restructured or (more likely) a buyer of the whole or part of the business is sought.

While the process is going on, a company continues to trade (unlike with a liquidation). So business as usual for the moment.

I have asked HJ for a comment.
 The future of the HJ website? - R.P.
Thanks for the clarity Avant.
 The future of the HJ website? - Duncan
>> Thanks for the clarity Avant.

What information did you get from that post that I missed?
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero
>> >> Thanks for the clarity Avant.
>>
>> What information did you get from that post that I missed?

Its clear he doesn't know what going on. Get with the program Duncan or step off the escalator.
 The future of the HJ website? - R.P.
The clarity of the Mods not knowing what's going on...there was speculation earlier on.
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero
exactly speculation was that knowwun knew what was going on, now its clear that knowwun knows nothing.
 The future of the HJ website? - James Loveless
"knowwun knew what was going on, now its clear that knowwun knows nothing"

I guess it takes one to know one.
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
I was going to say; what level of fog were you in that you found clarity in that post?
 The future of the HJ website? - Boxsterboy
I too will miss HJ's site if this is the end of the road. It is a useful source of (mostly) balanced information. But despite this I still haven't got the hang of left foot braking!! :-)
 The future of the HJ website? - The Melting Snowman
Avant has posted an update on HJ for those who are interested.
 The future of the HJ website? - zippy
I hope a buyer is found.

Enjoy the HJ site and like many here, would be sad to see it go.
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
>>I hope a buyer is found.

If one buys a company and then runs it exactly the same way that the previous owners did one tends to get exactly the same result.

So one needs to work out what one could do differently that would avoid the problems/challenges and increase it's success, buy it for an appropriate price and then do it.

Quite what you could do differently with HJ.co.uk escapes me.
 The future of the HJ website? - zippy
>> Quite what you could do differently with HJ.co.uk escapes me.


Avant mentioned cash flow difficulties. I suspect one or more of the advertisers wasn't paying (potential bad debt?) or had stretched payment terms.

Alternatively a creditor could have called in the debt (bank overdraft cancelled for example or a supplier reducing terms from 90 to 30 days, even HMRC).

VAT is one of the worst. You have to pay it even if the invoices you have sent out haven't been paid and that can kill a company with poor debt turn.

A new investor can easily introduce cash to the business or alternatively sell good debt to a bank (invoice finance) to get an instant injection of cash. Of course, this assumes that credit limits are available on the debtors.

Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 16 Jan 20 at 02:41
 The future of the HJ website? - Bobby
Will he be selling advertising space directly to his website or would it not be channelled through google ads?
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
I would imagine many of his advertising deals are considerably more complex than anything Google Ads would be prepared to do for him - revenue share, commission, etc.

Having said that I just went to the HJ Home page and paid attention; 39 trackers and similar were blocked. FFS, and then they wonder why people use ad blockers!
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 16 Jan 20 at 02:17
 The future of the HJ website? - VxFan
>> I have asked HJ for a comment.

Didn't he used to be a car salesman?

What is it they say about not trusting one ;)

only kidding folks.
 The future of the HJ website? - Dave_
cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/honest-john-enters-administration/184105
 The future of the HJ website? - smokie
I wouldn't have guessed at 18 employees. I'd have guessed less than 5. I wonder what they all do? Maybe they're not all permanent full time etc.

Mind you others of the figures are also somewhat larger than I imagined they could be:

20 million users a year (not unique, surely?)

400,000 registered readers (but how many registered once then never went back, so how many "regulars")

70,000 signed up for newsletter (how many go direct to spam? Over xx years this isn't many new people per year...)


Maybe this isn't unusual if you are getting some free advertising for the sale of you business! :-) (FWIW this isn't an anti HJ post, just an observation)
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero

>> 20 million users a year (not unique, surely?)

That will be hits, many of whom will be repeats.

 The future of the HJ website? - Bobby
cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/honest-john-lead-agency-form-exclusive-partnership/180561

That obviously went well!
 The future of the HJ website? - R.P.
Worth reading that with a "b******* Bingo" card in front of you !
 The future of the HJ website? - The Melting Snowman
>> cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/honest-john-enters-administration/184105
>>

From the link above:

"Joint administrator Miles Needham said: ‘Honest John is a trusted source of information for consumers wishing to purchase a new car, and its loyal customer base makes it an attractive investment opportunity "

This is what I fail to understand about these Administrations. If the business is suffering cashflow problems, then why is it "an attractive investment opportunity"? If there's some business change that can be made to turn it into a success, then why didn't the current owners just go and do that before Administration?

 The future of the HJ website? - zippy
>>then why didn't the current
>> owners just go and do that before Administration?
>>

Because they ran out of cash.

Very simply.

As a business you buy a part for cash £100 +VAT
You sell it for £140 +VAT on credit.

Profit £40.

Cash flow is negative £100 because you have paid for the part but you have not been paid for it.

What is more the tax man will want £8 in VAT ((140 x 20%) less (100 x 20%)) probably before you have been paid!

So negative cash flow is £108 until they get paid.

This is why businesses go bust. It's not profitability but cash flow and why banks are big on selling their invoice finance and asset finance products.

Last edited by: zippy on Fri 17 Jan 20 at 16:36
 The future of the HJ website? - zippy
There is a logic error in my post....

Cash flow is negative £120 because if a part is £100 + VAT and paid cash then the negative cash flow is £120 not £100.

When VAT is added to the selling price and paid, the total cash flow out is £128.
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero
Works ok as a model for manufacturing business, but not for the online world. Simply put, the HJ site is heavy on fixed costs, with variable income.

To fix it, you work on one, the other or both. In his case i think the fixed costs are excessive.
 The future of the HJ website? - zippy
>> Works ok as a model for manufacturing business, but not for the online world. Simply
>> put, the HJ site is heavy on fixed costs, with variable income.
>>
>> To fix it, you work on one, the other or both. In his case i
>> think the fixed costs are excessive.
>>

The fixed costs need to go out every month (wages, rent etc.).

The invoices get raised but probably don't get paid on time.

Same cash flow situation, slightly different reasons.

And VAT will be payable on the full invoice price with less input VAT to offset against.
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 17 Jan 20 at 19:41
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero
What invoices? there are no invoices. Your revenue is paid by online add agencies, who determine what your add rates are based on a lot of complicated formula and vary by the day.

So you have your fixed costs, staff, hosting costs etc, and your income is variable.
 The future of the HJ website? - zippy
>> What invoices? there are no invoices. Your revenue is paid by online add agencies, who
>> determine what your add rates are based on a lot of complicated formula and vary
>> by the day.
>>
>> So you have your fixed costs, staff, hosting costs etc, and your income is variable.
>>

There will be. It may be a self bill invoice, but there will be an invoice to record the debt owed.

Replace invoice with debt. The debt becomes due when the service is undertaken. There is no scintilla of time between a service being carried out and the debt being created. The invoice is just a record of that. The debt is created but may not be due for credit accounts (30, 60, 90 days etc.) and that is the cash flow hole.
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 17 Jan 20 at 20:18
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
In Dickensian theory annual income £20 and expenditure £19 6d is dandy.

But you can still fail if, by September, you've laid out £14 but only had £12 of income.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 17 Jan 20 at 20:24
 The future of the HJ website? - Robin O'Reliant
I haven't posted there since we moved here, but it will be a shame if it disappears as the Car-By-Car is the first port of call whenever I need to replace whichever old banger has reached end of life.
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
Invoice and VAT management is required, and certainly VAT on unpaid invoices can be an issue.

But that's all becoming a bit obsessive and is unlikely to be the cause of the issue here.

More likely is payment issues/timescales. Imagine you advertise an offer for a car for someone. But rather than being paid you get a share of the deal. So, somebody clicks on your deal and will eventually buy your car - but that make time and you're not getting squat in the way of commission until it is paid. If the market shifts in such a way that completion timescale is longer, or even if completion percentage is lower, than your revenue will drop.

Ditto AA adverts with discounts etc etc.

Also more likely is that you may find that the AA who is a big-a*** company tells you you'll get 90 day incoming payment terms because you're only little and you need them more than they need you.

Whereas your IT supplier might tell you that you're only getting 30 days outgoing payment terms because you're only little and he doesn't care about you much.

Or your business portfolio balance might have shifted and you're doing far more lower margin deals than previously.

And of course perhaps your business overall is shrinking, but perhaps your your flexibility with your costs is not sufficient. Perhaps previously you were robbing Peter to pay Paul because your business was growing that was possible, but if it is stable or shrinking that is not possible, you need to take the revenue from a particular deal to pay for the costs of that same deal, rather than using the money from one to pay another which has become payable first.

Maybe even your suppliers have red hot collection services but you do not or a bit slack.

Or perhaps your operational expenses are excessive or disproportionate.

Or perhaps you were financing the working capital and now want out and are not prepared to do so.

Or perhaps you simply are not managing the business very well and your expenses are out of order. Or perhaps simply growing faster than your revenue.

I can give you so many different possibilities I'd even bore myself.

Now, if you are stupid enough to get yourself into an invoice / VAT management issue that is trivial for an investor to solve in so many different ways. And even then you probably wouldn't need it because a bank would straighten you out.

But if your problem is one of the above, or even one of the ones I haven't mentioned, then they can only be resolved by changing the business or managing it very differently.

Or perhaps there are no particular problem but you just want out.

Or perhaps you've reduced it's working capital.

etc. etc. etc.

[typed on a phone and I accidentally deleted a bit out of the middle. Hope it makes some sense at least]
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 17 Jan 20 at 22:48
 The future of the HJ website? - Falkirk Bairn
No HJ agony News item on the HJ site - it has been a feature on the site for many a year.
 The future of the HJ website? - Avant
Yes there is. It doesn't usually appear till Saturday afternoon each week.
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
I am surprised that the ill-informned speculation is being allowed to continue on HJ, presumably where potential buyers will see it, with pretty much no informed response or actual status details.

Seems unwise.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 18 Jan 20 at 19:13
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero
Lost interest, it seems to be where all the extreme right wing homophobic daily express reading german car hating brexiteers ended up.
 The future of the HJ website? - No FM2R
They're certainly all there, some if them even with the same names. And of course some of them are still here.
 The future of the HJ website? - tyrednemotional
>> Lost interest, it seems to be where all the extreme right wing homophobic daily express
>> reading german car hating brexiteers ended up.
>>

...sounds like a rich source of income to mine....
 The future of the HJ website? - Duncan
The Telegraph today has a two page 'tribute' to Honest John. Apparently it's 25 years since the column started.
 The future of the HJ website? - Bromptonaut
>> The Telegraph today has a two page 'tribute' to Honest John. Apparently it's 25 years
>> since the column started.

Is it a long service award or a close of play tribute?
 The future of the HJ website? - Zero
Or a last frantic attempt to perform CPR on the corpse tribute?
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 25 Jan 20 at 10:04
Latest Forum Posts