| Non-motoring > Bank Account in Chile | Company Cars |
| Thread Author: No FM2R | Replies: 20 |
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New Tue 4 Feb 20 16:14
Bank Account in Chile - No FM2R
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#1 daughter became 18 on Friday, started a holiday job and wanted a bank account. Log onto bank website, type in ID number. It auto fills a form to which you have to add expected earnings, educational level and profession. None of which do you have to prove. 2 minutes tops. Walk into any branch of the bank with your ID card. Show ID card, get your fingerprint taken, give a specimen signature, and get handed Visa debit card, Internet banking instructions, and account details. No proof of address, they don't care where you live. Walk out of bank within 10 minutes fully equipped. Debit card only, no overdraft, no credit card, no loans. Electronic banking for everything including statements and in/out transfers. All can be done from your phone. They don't get much right here, but I thought that was pretty good and perfect for a first bank account. And another example of how easy ID Cards make life. |
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New Tue 4 Feb 20 16:56
Bank Account in Chile - Terry
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Not that different in UK. Six years ago I had a lump sum which I wanted to invest. At that time Santander were offering 3% interest on up to £20k in a current account - a good deal then, not quite so good now with lower interest rate. However walked out after about 30mins with account open + debit + credit card on their way in the post (not handed over then and there). Completely surprised at how quick and painless it was. Only proviso was to pay in a minimum of £600 pm and set up a couple of direct debits - simple transfer from other bank account. |
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New Tue 4 Feb 20 17:02
Bank Account in Chile - No FM2R
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| How did they deal with the KYC stuff, which is usually the issue in the UK? |
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New Tue 4 Feb 20 17:29
Bank Account in Chile - smokie
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Not sure Santander are a shining example :-) My mate's dad died recently. He had a pension going into Santander and there was quite a few thou in the account. My mate has only just started the probate process (as he didn't think it was urgent) but he already has had the pension account dealt with and paid into his own personal account, just on production of a (copy maybe) death certificate. He was surprised how easy it was to get the money (yes he would have had to provide ID etc but nevertheless...) I like that Chile don't give overdrafts and credit cards. They are often the killers for youngsters. |
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New Tue 4 Feb 20 18:15
Bank Account in Chile - Haywain
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"My mate has only just started the probate process (as he didn't think it was urgent) but he already has had the pension account dealt with and paid into his own personal account, just on production of a (copy maybe) death certificate. He was surprised how easy it was to get the money (yes he would have had to provide ID etc but nevertheless...)" From recent experience, I know that different banks have their own level after which a probate certificate is required. For most (e.g. Lloyd's and Nationwide) it is £50k; for smaller organisations (e.g. Hinckley & Rugby B Soc), it is £15k. For less than the above amounts, photo ID + an official (i.e. embossed) copy of the death certificate is required - a photocopy of a death certificate will not do. As far as I can see, fraud would be difficult to organise unless you stole the ID and death certificate, and you looked a bit like the bloke in the photo. A straightforward online probate application is currently taking 8 weeks - or, at least, it was 2 months ago. |
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New Tue 4 Feb 20 18:26
Bank Account in Chile - Zero
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My example of probate was that Barclays were excelent, Santander not bad, and nationwide the biggest pain in the ass ever going. Local branch would not handle it, had to make appointment at a main branch, where only a manager would deal with it, had to wait till probate was issued and go in for a personal interview with my passport and an original probate certificate. *Tho Santander came back to bite me. I had POA over the santander account, which meant when I tried to move my Nat West account there it became a long drawn out protracted affair because I was already named on a current account that a: wasn't mine and b: had been closed. So long drawn out and protracted I gave up. Last edited by: Zero on Tue 4 Feb 20 at 18:29
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New Wed 5 Feb 20 22:02
Bank Account in Chile - zippy
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>> and nationwide the >> biggest pain in the ass ever going. Nationwide recommended a probate operation to my parents. The quote was for thousands and there was no property to sell only a few savings accounts and insurances to sort. Considering my parents were able to do it themselves in a few days shows how these so called reputable firms can be total rip offs! |
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New Wed 5 Feb 20 22:07
Bank Account in Chile - zippy
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>> How did they deal with the KYC stuff, which is usually the issue in the >> UK? >> They will have checked the electoral role. The probably also asked for photo ID and check it's real. The electoral roll check will link in to a vetting agency like Experian which will confirm that the customer has bank accounts, loans etc - i.e. has a credit "footprint". |
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New Thu 6 Feb 20 00:49
Bank Account in Chile - No FM2R
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None of which is neccesary if everybody just carried an ID card. Photo, Fingerprint, signature & the ID number which is also SII (Inland Revenue) ID, passport number and driving license number if/where applicable. How does a (just) 18yr old, first job, not yet on electoral roll kid do it in the UK? |
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New Thu 6 Feb 20 09:31
Bank Account in Chile - Zero
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>> How does a (just) 18yr old, first job, not yet on electoral roll kid do >> it in the UK? With a shed load of agro, even more since their local branch was shut down. |
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New Thu 6 Feb 20 11:08
Bank Account in Chile - zippy
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>> >> >> How does a (just) 18yr old, first job, not yet on electoral roll kid >> do >> >> it in the UK? >> >> With a shed load of agro, even more since their local branch was shut down. >> Both kids got an account set up at 18 for uni and earlier actually for part time / summer jobs. NI number and provisional driving licence did it. There are rules for protected people who might not have the evidence that might normally be available, think person in a refuge - they would have left all their documentation in the shared home. |
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New Thu 6 Feb 20 22:13
Bank Account in Chile - PeterS
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>> None of which is neccesary if everybody just carried an ID card. Photo, Fingerprint, signature >> & the ID number which is also SII (Inland Revenue) ID, passport number and driving >> license number if/where applicable. >> >> How does a (just) 18yr old, first job, not yet on electoral roll kid do >> it in the UK? >> I’m not sure, but it can’t be that difficult as some of the banks now offer accounts for homeless people!! www.finextra.com/newsarticle/34962/hsbc-offers-homeless-people-bank-accounts |
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New Fri 7 Feb 20 08:23
Bank Account in Chile - Bromptonaut
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>> I’m not sure, but it can’t be that difficult as some of the banks now >> offer accounts for homeless people!! >> >> www.finextra.com/newsarticle/34962/hsbc-offers-homeless-people-bank-accounts That scheme is excellent, at least in principle, and has been highlighted through work. I've not seen it in practice and it is still in roll out. It is a very basic account which simply allows people to receive money such as wages or benefit and to make payments. Like other forms of basic bank account it has no overdraft facility. There may also be limits on where a card is accepted like fuel stations - as has been case for many years with certain other cards. I suspect very few employers, except perhaps small shops or some bars, will pay cash these days. Universal Credit requires a bank account although it may, at least initially be that of a relative. A first payment can be made via an exceptions service using 'Pay Point' in shops but it's a PITA to use and is strictly one time only. A previous facility via Post Offices is being removed on cost grounds. A bank account is a necessity not a luxury. I am deeply sceptical of how the sort of ID card Mark mentions being in circulation in Chile could be made to work for everybody here. There is a cohort in UK society who for many and various reasons lack proper ID (passport, driving licence or for that matter their birth certificate). Some have disorganised lives on the drugs>prison>street homeless treadmill or have lost everything in relationship breakdown or eviction. One of the Windrush victims couldn't provide 'papers' including her school records and the Grenadian passport on which she arrived in UK. A previous partner put it all down the rubbish shoot when she left him after a violent episode. There's another cohort, usually men, who struggled in education and remain living with parents into middle age, perhaps finding 'sheltered' employment if they're lucky. I've heard the phrase 'I've lived with my Mam all my life' on more than one occasion. How to the folks living on the streets of Santiago or in it's 'favellas' manage? Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 7 Feb 20 at 08:25
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New Fri 7 Feb 20 13:11
Bank Account in Chile - No FM2R
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Everybody is registered, has their fingerprints recorded and has been issued with an ID. That may have lapsed, they have to be renewed to keep the photo current, but they still have them. Bureacracy is a pain in the butt, but it brings certainty and inevitability. You can do nothing without them. Literally nothing. Not even walk the streets if a Carbinero sees you. The only exception is illegal immigrants. Which is a good thing. I guess at it's most extreme could an unregistered alien have a baby in the woods and that baby grow up without ever seeing a doctor or a school or any other form of state or commercial organisation? I guess it's possible, but ridiculously unlikely. Windrush couldn't happen here. It would have been dealt with at the airport on their arrival. You don't get in this country without going on the records. Favelas, by the way, are Brazilian not Chilean. >>I am deeply sceptical of how the sort of ID card Mark mentions being in circulation in Chile could be made to work for everybody here. Only because of the whining of people paranoid about how it will destroy their freedom. Stuff and nonsense. |
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New Fri 7 Feb 20 14:17
Bank Account in Chile - Bromptonaut
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Thanks for that. I know favelas are Brazil rather than Chile; that's why I used quote marks. With hindsight shanty town might have been better. I'm assuming such things exist in Chile? So in Chile you're registered, fingerprinted etc, presumably in early adulthood, working from existing ID of your parents. Then you're logged on a database of citizens (or legitimate visitors like yourself) and issued with a card? If your ex-lover throws the card away you can present with fingers and whatever to get the card re-issued. Presumably that system goes back to the Pinochet era if not before? If you start from there I can see how it would work. We of course have never had such a system, at least not since the end of WW2. Wartime cards were abolished following a case called Wilcock v Muckle. Lord Justice Goddard, not a man regarded as a beacon of liberalism, found that police power to demand then from all and sundry, for instance, from a lady who may leave her car outside a shop longer than she should, made people resentful of the police and inclines them to obstruct the police instead of to assist them. I think that quote, adapted to include various other forms of officialdom, still rings true today. Because we've never had such a system starting one from scratch would be a massive undertaking. We don't record so much about our citizens. While there's much more information sharing in government than used to be case there's a still cultural reluctance, both in populace and officialdom, to allowing it. There are any number of people born here, never mind those admitted, mostly from our former empire or the EU, under a mish mash of provisions who would struggle to prove who they are to standard required. The arrival of Windrush people was noted and recorded via landing cards. These were stored, indexed and held for many years in the Home Office complex at Croydon. Immigration staff would refer to them from time to time when attempting to resolve people's status. The cards were destroyed to save the cost of their storage. Pleas for them to be scanned or microfiched were disregarded. You could of course have a light touch system where staff had discretion but I don't think current political culture with Ms Patel at the Home Office would wear that. Given we don't have culture where Police etc stop citizens at will it'd be pretty easy for a whole bunch of people to avoid registration and lurk on the fringes of society. And then there's the cost which was what sunk the last ID card scheme. I just don't see how, short of war or disaster, it could be done practically in the the social and political culture etc of the UK. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 7 Feb 20 at 14:20
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New Fri 7 Feb 20 16:05
Bank Account in Chile - No FM2R
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>> With hindsight shanty town might have been better. I'm assuming such things exist in Chile? Yes, kind of. It's different but not in any way that matters to this discussion. >> So in Chile you're registered, fingerprinted etc, presumably in early adulthood Your ID number is assigned when your birth is registered. Your ID card is issued when the child needs it; needing a doctor, going into hospital, starting school, international travel, etc. etc. First contact with authority. To avoid your birth being registered you would have to be born with no medical care before or after for you or your parent and not in any medical facility. Not impossible, but very unlikely. >>working from existing ID of your parents. No. It's independent. Your birth certificate will show your parents, or at least the Mother but your ID is independent. >>Then you're logged on a database of citizens (or legitimate visitors like yourself) and issued with a card? No, the two things are not connected. Once you appear (birth or immigration) then you are logged on the database of citizens but at that moment it is linked to your parents (birth) or to whatever passport you entered on (immigrant/visitor). Both cases get you an ID number. However, to do anything you need an ID card, not just the number. So then you have to go to the Registro Civil, prove your ID and get photographed, printed and documented. For an immigrant that is all a duplication, for someone born here that may be the first time. I'm not sure I am being clear, but the point is that there is no escape. Because there is no escape, if you do not have it then it is your problem. The bureaucracy is time consuming, detailed and duplicated. Whilst speed and efficiency do not exist, absolute certainty does. >> If your ex-lover throws the card away you can present with fingers and whatever to >> get the card re-issued. It's trivial. Walk into the Registro Civil, scan your fingerprints, pay $2,000 (£2) and walk away with a duplicated. As an aside, if I want to use an ATM out of hours, my bank or not, then I walk up to the door and it scans my fingerprint. Then it will open the door. Like I said, without ID you;re nothing. >> Presumably that system goes back to the Pinochet era if not before? Much longer. I have no idea how long. >> Because we've never had such a system starting one from scratch would be a massive >> undertaking. I don't think so. If you made a Government scheme with solid accuracy but voluntary then you could simply wait for commercial organisations to start requiring the card. Life would do it for you. Bit like photo id Driving Licences. In the end you get everybody. >> The cards were destroyed to save the cost of their storage. That would never happen in Chile. Even if they were scanned. >> Given we don't have culture where Police etc stop citizens at will it'd be pretty >> easy for a whole bunch of people to avoid registration and lurk on the fringes >> of society. In reality the police don't drive it. The need for medical care, the need for schooling, credit, phone contracts, driving licenses, passports, bank accounts, buying alcohol*, using a vet, joining a club, etc. etc. etc. drive the need for an ID card. Essentially anything where you may need to give your name, yo also need to give your ID card. I think what people don't realise is how easy it makes your life. If they could be abused in the real world then trust me Chile, Argentina and Brazil would have found a way. You're far more likely to be abused by the data that you/we trail around the internet. Illegal 'over-stayers' are Chile's problem. They get them eventually over time, but Haiti provides a ready stream of them. >> I just don't see how, short of war or disaster, it could be done practically in the social and political culture etc of the UK. A voluntary scheme would spread, I believe. I think the only legal change needed would be an ID number on your birth certificate. In the end you'll get everyone. |
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New Fri 7 Feb 20 16:41
Bank Account in Chile - sooty123
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| I think there's been a couple of voluntary government id schemes but they weren't very popular, uptake was low. And they were binned off in the end. |
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New Mon 10 Feb 20 21:26
Bank Account in Chile - Bromptonaut
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Mark, thank you for that detailed response. What you say about the Chilean system and, for example allocating an ID number at birth illustrates how different it is to UK. The one thing I'm not following is 'So then you have to go to the Registro Civil, prove your ID'. How does that work - what documents do you need? I suspect it will be a cold day in hell when UK citizens accept need for ID to buy alcohol, use an ATM or take the dog to the vet. Pretty much point Goddard LJ made in Wilcock v Muckle way back then. Same with medical care. A few newspaper headlines about 'deserving vulnerable' and/or photogenic people struggling to get their or their kids ailments seen to and government's resolve will crumble. Accepting such restrictions is just not in our national DNA. We now have rules where you need to prove right to work and right to rent. Even intelligent employers mess up the 'right to work' stuff. The passport I'd produced originally, showing I'm a UK Citizen, was definitive but subsequently expired. I was instructed to bring a new one in. Right to Rent is currently going through the courts on grounds of (indirect) discrimination. Given the challenges set for Windrush people to prove themselves I just cannot see how UK government could make everybody prove their ID successfully without a huge number 'failing'. How might it work if you've lost everything on the drugs>jail>homeless treadmill? And that's before you start on those with a paranoia about being on a database. |
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New Wed 12 Feb 20 17:25
Bank Account in Chile - No FM2R
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>>The one thing I'm not following is 'So then you have to go to the Registro Civil, prove your ID'. How does that work - what documents do you need? Only just noticed the question; If you've ever had an ID card before, or you're a foreigner, then your fingerprint. If not, then you have to go to a Notary and convince him to sign confirmation of your ID. Can be personal visits with parents, birth certificates, even a notarised letter from the Doctor who delivered you together with a notarised letter from the hospital to say that the Doctor works(ed) there. It can be traumatic and take time. Periodically I have to prove that I am still alive. Walking into the Registro Civil and showing them my ID card is not considered sufficient. I have to go to a Notary, convince them that I am alive, and then take the notarised letter of life to the Registro Civil for them to keep on their files. |
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New Mon 10 Feb 20 18:34
Bank Account in Chile - No FM2R
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Because you mentioned Favelas..... What happens is that you have hills which are either not safe or not economic to build on and too steep for any other use. A few people turn up and live in cardboard boxes. If they get away with this then they'll change to packing crates. As more people turn up in cardboard boxes. Then they all move up the chain; packing crates to concrete blocks, cardboard to packing crate and new cardboard arrivals. You can look at a large favela and literally see it legitimize itself and the older dwellings become more and more permanent structures. Aside from the obvious things; electricity (stolen from the nearest telegraph pole), water (bought in bottles) and sewage (just ignored) one of the things they don't have is foundations. At the moment it is raining gangbusters in Sao Paulo. Believe me, if you haven't been to a tropical country you haven't seen rain. And then this happens..... [Bear in mind there are people, children and pets in those homes.] p.s. there is screaming and crying but there is nothing graphic, unless you think about it too hard. You probably will need to unmute it. www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2494469184143366 Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 10 Feb 20 at 18:36
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New Wed 12 Feb 20 17:19
Bank Account in Chile - Netsur
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The system of ID in Israel where my father lives is very similar. Everyone has an ID number and card. The card isn't vital if you have other formal ID which has it on; like a driving licence. Not as sophisticated as Chile, but if you have your ID number then everything is easy. Medical treatment, new passport, opening a bank account etc etc. The treatment of overseas property owners is similar but worse. Everything is linked to your passport number so every so often (as you renew the passport) you need to go to the bank and pretty much do everything again that you did when you first opened the account; despite having banked there for 15 years. The US made it a PITA as they assume you are a money launderer unless you sign otherwise. If you don't sign (say because you have not been to the country for a while), clearly you are a launderer and the account suspended. And the amount of paper to sign, genuinely a ream each time I do this... |
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