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Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 15 Mar 20 at 20:35
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Do we see this as cause for optimism or just propaganda?
www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51813876
One thing I do not understand, perhaps someone else does, how do you stop it spreading? Surely it will only stop when everybody available to the virus has been infected?
Or is it that some are either resistant or immune?
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It must be the case that some people are resistant, otherwise colds and Flu would get everyone each year.
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...time to start spreading the rumour on social media that infected (unused) toilet tissue has been implicated in the rapid spread of Coronavirus......... ;-)
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>> mobile.twitter.com/jenanmoussa/status/1237328695934812165
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>> Madness.
>>
Moronic lemmings with no capability for independent thought.
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>> Madness.
>>
Indeed.
Smug here , and fortunate.
I have a quite large supply in stock of many of the panic items and several other key items for the household.
All were bought at considerable savings, over any stockist , mainly from Waitrose but well before Christmas.
My money is earning naff all interest so is better spent on such stock
I also try to keep three weeks or so stock in case I am ill as I also avoid buying food etc. via online deliveries.
I sometimes do buy in bulk e.g a years supply for added discount.
Having noticed a favoured purchase was being repackaged and anticipating a price rise that too is now hoarded.
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What do they think is going to happen to toilet rolls? And why on earth do they think they need that many?
It is of small satisfaction that their stupidity is costing them money.
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>> What do they think is going to happen to toilet rolls? And why on earth
>> do they think they need that many?
I don't understand the bog roll thin either.
Mrs B was in the local whole food emporium yesterday and found gaps on shelves where people had apparently bulk bought stuff like lentils, porage oats etc over the weekend but at least that's comprehensible stocking.
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>>
>>
>> I don't understand the bog roll thin either.
>>
>>
>>
Working in a newsagents a shortage of bog rolls is never a problem. One of the local titles only want the header returned from unsold copies, so there is a plentiful supply of wipes always to hand.
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>>Working in a newsagents a shortage of bog rolls is never a problem.
Huh, you may laugh. I well remember scrunching newspaper repeatedly to soften it up. I had a wonderful and loving childhood, but there were moments....
And the middle of the night, in the pitch dark with a candle, scrunching newspaper in a shed at the bottom of the garden was certainly one of them.
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>> >>Working in a newsagents a shortage of bog rolls is never a problem.
>>
>> Huh, you may laugh. I well remember scrunching newspaper repeatedly to soften it up. I
>> had a wonderful and loving childhood, but there were moments....
>>
>> And the middle of the night, in the pitch dark with a candle, scrunching newspaper
>> in a shed at the bottom of the garden was certainly one of them.
The first person that makes any reference to quotes from the three Yorkshire men sketch gets banished to Milan
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>> >> What do they think is going to happen to toilet rolls?
>> >> And why on earth do they think they need that many?
>>
>> I don't understand the bog roll thing either.
>>
This man has the latest news.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-51823128/coronavirus-don-t-panic-be-community-minded-says-loo-roll-boss
I think the company has the sheets so time to relax ?
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That should wipe out that panic.
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>> Or is it that some are either resistant or immune?
As I said up thread, only those who get ill enough to worry about it seek medical help, and they are the only ones tested. The chances are its widespread in the general populous by now with slight, little or no symptoms. , far more than the known reported cases.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 10 Mar 20 at 13:49
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Anybody else finding it hard to unlearn years of being told to 'put your hand over yout mouth when you cough/sneeze'?
Something just irritated my nose at work and set off a stream of sneezes - both hands over mouth/nose is a reflex.
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>>Anybody else finding it hard to unlearn years of being told to 'put your hand over your mouth when you cough/sneeze'?
What did I miss?
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>> What did I miss?
UK advice seems to be to have a tissue in your hand, otherwise use your elbow instead. I think it's about keeping hands germ free but also probably assumes your elbow is covered by a sleeve.
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>> UK advice seems to be to have a tissue in your hand, otherwise use your
>> elbow instead. I think it's about keeping hands germ free but also probably assumes your
>> elbow is covered by a sleeve.
That's f. stupid.
If you haven't got the virus, then it doesn't matter.
If you have got the virus then it doesn't matter to you but I should think someone is more likely to brush against your sleeve than your hand. And it's certainly more difficult to wash your sleeve during the day.
How about the revolutionary and innovative approach of washing your effin hands if you sneeze in them?
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>> How about the revolutionary and innovative approach of washing your effin hands if you sneeze
>> in them?
It's stopping the aerosol spray that is the benefit. Watch people put a fist in front of their mouths and cough or sneeze - I've had it happen to me this morning in a car - I could feel the draught over my own face and nose, and a possibly imagined spray of droplets.
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>> I could feel the draught over my own face and nose,
You're clearly a nicer person than me. I would have reacted 'strongly'.
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There are many questions I don't know the answers to. Possibly the virologists, scientists, WHO etc don't know the answers either. Or maybe they know the answers but don't want to tell us.
1. Are the China reports factually correct or propaganda
2. Do some people (possibly a large number) have immunity to this virus anyway
3. How many are actually infected but not in reported numbers
4. Is the Italian lock down a deliberate attempt to repeat what has worked in China
In a couple of weeks hopefully we may know the answers. I certainly don't feel remotely re-assured by the BBC article.
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>> 1. Are the China reports factually correct or propaganda
I don't know. But I should think inaccuracy is incompetence rather than conspiracy. I have friends in China and they tell me that the earlier attempts to suppress communication seem to have stopped.
>> 2. Do some people (possibly a large number) have immunity to this virus anyway
I don't think you can be immune as such, but the impact can vary in degree including being almost asymptomatic.
>> 3. How many are actually infected but not in reported numbers
Like Zero says, an awful, awful lot of trivial cases.
>> 4. Is the Italian lock down a deliberate attempt to repeat what has worked in
>> China
No, I should think it's a desperate amount of a*** covering.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 10 Mar 20 at 14:32
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Not sure that knowing the real answers to those (or any other) questions actually makes any difference, as most people make their own minds up regardless of professional or official statements, at best just believing what they want to hear.
Slight tangent - I met someone the other day who genuinely has a conspiracy theory about it. That was an amusing 5 minutes. I think the Russians were involved somewhere but I forget the detail.
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 10 Mar 20 at 15:35
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>> 4. Is the Italian lock down a deliberate attempt to repeat what has worked in
>> China
>>
As regulars might remember, I live in Austria. The government yesterday announced a partial shut down. As from Monday 16th, all shops will be closed except for supermarkets, banks and chemists, plus a few other exceptions such as fuel stations. All restaurants, bars, cafes etc have to close at 3pm. Borders were closed with Italy last week. There are already measures in place prohibiting indoor events over 100 people and outdoor events over 500. Panic buying seems the norm here too - can't understand why all the fresh milk (as opposed to longlife) was sold out in the supermarkets yesterday. Advice is pretty much standard, such as minimising social contact.
We have an apartment that we run commercially as a holiday let, and in complete contrast to previous years we only have six nights booked over the next couple of months. I have a theory that there were things happening in China and South Korea before they were publicly announced, because our usual advance bookings from those regions fell away a month or so before coronavirus came to public attention. We've also had a few cancellations, and it's certainly going to put our personal finances under pressure.
We've also cancelled a planned family visit to the UK in April, because we were travelling by train. We have to go in June for a family wedding, also by train, so we'll probably change our plans and go by car so that we can effectively self-isolate on the journey.
I have concerns for my 87-year old father in the UK, but he is more or less self-isolating because although he has no underlying lung or heart problems (as far as we know) he has problems with his mobility and usually would only go out once or twice a week anyway.
Looks like we'll be doing a lot of walking over the next few weeks!
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>> Do we see this as cause for optimism or just propaganda?
Not a cause for much optimism IMO, if it isn't propaganda then there's still the fact that the Chinese virtually imprisoned a complete city. We can't/won't do that here.
I'm impressed every time I hear Chris Witty. The reason they aren't asking/telling people to self-isolate, closing venues etc now is (a) because while 99%+ are not infected it won't actually prevent much, (b) people will not perceive any value or benefit and will simply not comply after a couple of weeks, by which time the infected will be more numerous.
I watched about an hour of him being quizzed in a committee chaired by Hunt last night. He said we are probably less than 2 weeks away from trying to slow down the spread using such measures, in order to flatten the peak number infected.
Anybody who is not taking this very seriously is making a mistake. What we should actually do is a difficult question.
Whitty thinks this is going to be big numbers, much bigger than the total number of hospital beds (for all purposes) which is 140,000. The numbers will be such that the treatment for the vast majority will be"stay at home and take your chances". When it comes to prioritising active treatment it won't be sickest first, or first come first served, it will be who has the best chance of recovery. Double pneumonia will be what kills people.
We've decided to go to a fundraising quiz in the village hall this weekend. If we catch it, our timing will be fortunate I hope. If not, we'll be thinking about a bit more staying at home for a while after that.
I predicted 48 new UK cases yesterday, based on 15% daily (exponential) growth. There were 54. Fairly easy to do the sums.
Italy has been hospitalising 10%. Their death rate is 5%.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-51811969
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>> If we catch it, our timing will be fortunate
Remember, it is not a "one and done" situation.
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When i Googled Tenerife News this morning it was shown that all of the hotel guests at the H10 in Adeje were allowed to leave last night They were all celebrating etc. None of this has been reported on national news that i have seen. Perhaps they don't want to report positive news.
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None of this has been reported on national news that i have seen.
>> Perhaps they don't want to report positive news.
>>
Just plain wrong.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-51811002/coronavirus-tenerife-tourists-celebrate-end-of-hotel-lockdown
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>> >> If we catch it, our timing will be fortunate
>>
>> Remember, it is not a "one and done" situation.
Good point.
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>>Italy has been hospitalising 10%.
When you consider that against the back drop of those who are so trivial they don't report it or get noticed, then it seems almost trivial.
>>Their death rate is 5%.
When you look at the total imbalance for older people and those with other conditions, then it begins to get somewhat more worrisome.
I explained to my daughters that the biggest health risk that they face is my wrath if they bring it into the house..
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Like dog poop on shoes ?
My father used to go ballistic
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From the Guardian, a bit of perspective -
"What is the mortality rate of the new coronavirus?
It is probably about or a bit less than 1%. Much higher figures have been flying about, but the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, is one of those who believes it will prove to be 1% or lower. The World Health Organization’s director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, talked of 3.4%, but his figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. We know there are many more mild cases that do not get to hospital and are not being counted, which would bring the mortality rate significantly down".
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Tue 10 Mar 20 at 17:31
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You'll be fine if you are young and have no pre-existing conditions
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
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>> You'll be fine if you are young and have no pre-existing conditions
If you are in the at risk category, your chances of dying from Flu or other winter type ailment are about the same.
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>> Not t sure that is true. Certainly not true as far as age is concerned.
>>
>> www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-to-flu-mortality-rates-2020-3?r=US&IR=T
No because they are also using the reported and tested mortality rates to get the false 3% rate
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Are the figures not skewed as people get flu jabs hence the overall numbers are artificially reduced? Seems to me it's not comparing like with like.
Aside from the fact that percentages really don't have much significance if you get it, I don't really see that a difference of a few percentage points is that significant anyway, especially as the amount of cases the percentages are based on must be vastly different in size. I don't think a few thousand is a very big sample for accurate prediction.
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>> Are the figures not skewed as people get flu jabs hence the overall numbers are
>> artificially reduced? Seems to me it's not comparing like with like.
>>
>> Aside from the fact that percentages really don't have much significance if you get it,
>> I don't really see that a difference of a few percentage points is that significant
>> anyway, especially as the amount of cases the percentages are based on must be vastly
>> different in size. I don't think a few thousand is a very big sample for
>> accurate prediction.
All sorts of holes in the data, not least that the vast majority have not been tested for the disease.
The optics of death rates are interesting in themselves.
Even if the death rate of 3.5% is based on a denominator from which 80% (a wild guess in itself) of the infected people have been omitted because they haven't been tested, that makes the 'real' death rate 0.7%. The death rate for seasonal flu has been quoted as 0.1%.
0.7% sounds considerably worse than 0.1% and it is - 7 times more deaths for the same number infected. But the corresponding survival rates of 99.3% and 99.9% probably sound as close to each other as makes no difference to most people.
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>>But the corresponding survival rates of 99.3% and 99.9% probably sound as close to each other as makes no difference to most people.
Until you expand that to your immediate/first degree relatives and their families, say 20 people.
Then it's approx. 14% vs 2% chance you'll lose a family member.
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>> You'll be fine if you are young and have no pre-existing conditions
>>
>> www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
29th February. Bit out of date.
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Nadine Dorries tests positive.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51827356
Hopefully she's been near Patel.
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My employer has implemented some rather major contingency plans as of last night.
My work phone has been pinging all evening with plans and "rules".
I can't go in to details as it could identify who my employer is.
A few obvious ones are:
No unnecessary travelling.
No visiting other offices within the company without express consent from a company director (not a department director).
Use video / telephone conferencing.
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>> No visiting other offices within the company without express consent from a company director (not
>> a department director).
I'll bet that gets delegated pretty quickly.
When the coalition started in 2010 my then employing government department required approval at director level for a number of things previously authorised by clerks or junior managers including catering at meetings.
Didn't take long for a set of 'standard exceptions' to appear and for other cases to be dealt with by delegation, albeit a daftly senior level for spends of around £150 for sandwich rounds, fruit and cakes plus tea coffee and biscuits for for 20 through rest of day.
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Intel in Ireland are instructing all staff who have recently returned from any foreign country to self isolate at home.
Work from home , video conferencing etc.
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Question - to what extent will changed behaviours become the new norm post-Covid 19:
- far less business travel
- increased use of video conferencing
- more work from home
- video doctor/nurse consultations
- rapid increase in on-line food and consumable shopping/delivery
- personal stockpiling of critical foods and medicines
- greater uptake of good sanitation practice (handwashing etc)
- etc etc
To some extent it depends on the length of the disruption - if only 2 weeks we will quickly revert to old habits, more than 3 months may embed new behaviours. Those of a certain age and above will remember the 3 day week in the 1970s - we generally produced as much in three days as we had in the previous 5 day week by (a) impoving efficiency and (b) avoiding pointless effort previously regarded as important!
And the implications:
- HS2 still required
- investment in road infrastructure reduced
- commuter routes no longer need upgrading
- reduced need for air travel and airport infrastructure (5th runway etc)
- priority for rollout of 5th generation mobile network
- spare capacity built into future NHS funding and resources
- supply chains changed to reduce reliance on imports - components and products
- ??????
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About another two weeks, four at most, and it'll drop off the front pages. And that will be that.
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>> Those of a certain age and above will remember the 3 day week in
>> the 1970s - we generally produced as much in three days as we had in
>> the previous 5 day week by (a) impoving efficiency and (b) avoiding pointless effort previously
>> regarded as important!
>>
I am of a certain age, and no we didn't. AFAIR GDP took a massive hit, possibly the biggest since it had started to be measured.
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>> I am of a certain age, and no we didn't. AFAIR GDP took a massive
>> hit, possibly the biggest since it had started to be measured.
Indeed the economic hit reverberated for the next decade.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 11 Mar 20 at 19:53
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>>we generally produced as much in three days as we had in the previous 5 day week
Utter nonsense.
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>> >>we generally produced as much in three days as we had in the previous 5
>> day week
There are a range of sources on this question all saying different things. The idea that national productivity by value etc was as good in three days as five is nonsense. The idea that any gains could have been maintained long term more so.
I think the best that can be said is that the loss of production was proportionately lower than might have been expected. There was an element of 'Dunkirk Spirit' afoot leading restrictive practices being eased and probably to some quid pro quo concessions from management. That sort of goodwill tends to wear down over time and I doubt it would have lasted if the miners dispute had dragged on.
Some industries would fare better than others; offices better than factories.
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I worked in a factory that ran 24/7 during the time of three day week and there was no way production could have been anything other than 3/7ths of the normal output. Many other places, the car industry for example, suffered the same fate.
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>> I worked in a factory that ran 24/7 during the time of three day week
>> and there was no way production could have been anything other than 3/7ths of the
>> normal output. Many other places, the car industry for example, suffered the same fate.
Yeah 3/7th's of not much is even less. Tho I suppose in the case of BL it meant less crap, every cloud and all that.
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>> Some industries would fare better than others; offices better than factories.
Casting my mind back I remember visiting one of the big department stores in Leeds, either Schofields or Lewis's, during the three day week. They had their own generators and things kept moving with back up lighting festoons of 60 watt bulbs running up staircases. I dare say some places with two sites had differing supply days. Or possibly premises were split into two with parts open Mon-Wed and others Thur to Sat.
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From a non economic point of view the three day week was rather fun. Time off work, candle lit pubs, cooking on a camping stove.
Coronavirus somewhat less so.
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" back up lighting festoons of 60 watt bulbs running up staircases"
No elf 'n' safety then, or risk of being sued.
On another note I found it refreshing that a court yesterday found that the death of a 10 year old from a piece of falling barrier on which he had been swinging in a shop was declared accidental. Tragic for everyone involved I know but at least some common sense prevailed.
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>>No elf 'n' safety then,
And it was a much worse country because of it. A lot of crap spoken about H&S.
See Figures 10, 11 & 12
www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf
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>> I found it refreshing that a court yesterday found that the death of a 10 year old from a piece of falling barrier on which he had been swinging in a shop was declared accidental.
Did you also notice that there had been two previous incidents in other stores and the manager had been officially asked to check the stability and safety of the arrangement at this store. He confirmed that he'd checked it and it was safe. He later admitted that he had lied and never checked it.
It was unsafe. A child died. Admittedly a child who had been swinging from it when he shouldn't have been. The mother (in charge of the child) and the manager (lied about the safety of the installation) should have been prosecuted.
I understand that criminal prosecution is on its way.
Good.
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I panic bought today - a few bottles of Rioja.
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Yep, got that. My observation was meant to be that it's unusual for a company to be cleared in such clases.
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>> Yep, got that. My observation was meant to be that it's unusual for a company
>> to be cleared in such clases.
I'm not sure anyone has been 'cleared'. AIUI this was an inquest verdict and in circumstances nothing 'stronger' than accident was available to the jury. In reality it was an accident that could and should have been avoided.
Ordinary domestic furniture carries warnings against being pulled over by children. Instructions for the IKEA book case I've just put up in Mrs B's study recommended attaching it to the wall. Same with their chests of drawers.
There had been previous incidents in Topshop stores where identical barriers had been turned over by children engaging in horseplay. If something weighs between 110 and 180kg (reports differ) then it shouldn't be capable of being up-ended by an 11 year old doing pull ups on it. It needs to be anchored by more than the reported wood screws.
The fact that store manager had been alerted to the possibility of it being toppled is pretty damning too.
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OK, maybe that's the last unresearched off-the-cuff comment I bother with.
Well, maybe not, but more risk assessment required before pressing Post Message, obviously. :-)
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>>There are some sick f**** about....
Oh yes.
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Coronavirus: Italy shuts nearly all shops as WHO declares pandemic www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51845817
I rather think the position Italy are in now is where the UK will be in a couple of weeks time. It’s truly amazing that just over two months ago few had ever heard of Coronavirus and most thought it was a local Chinese problem and were scoffing at predictions of a major pandemic. It looks like it’s going to be of truly historical significance.
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" most thought it was a local Chinese problem and were scoffing at predictions of a major pandemic. "
Those of us who have studied biology were certainly not scoffing.
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A bizarre speech by Trump yesterday. What a man to have at the helm in an hour of need.
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>> A bizarre speech by Trump yesterday.
Since when has he said anything that wasn't bizarre?
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"A bizarre speech "
From the bits of news that I've seen, Trump has banned flights from mainland Europe into the US; we have been welcoming flights from Italy with no precautions.
At least, Trump's advisors recognise that the major factor in the rapid spread of this virus is air travel.
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But seemingly not between UK and Ireland and the US. A totally illogical, rambling,incoherent political and xenophobic speech by the orange faced one.
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>> But seemingly not between UK and Ireland and the US. A totally illogical, rambling,incoherent political
>> and xenophobic speech by the orange faced one.
Schengen seems to be the delineator. There is a kind of logic to it if you think any of those countries should be on the avoid list.
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Very easy, for instance, to travel to UK from Ireland....then onwards to any UK airport to fly to the US...
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>> Very easy, for instance, to travel to UK from Ireland....then onwards to any UK airport
>> to fly to the US...
>>
Pretty sure international travel is shared across boarders, so would flag up if you just flew here to get to the US.
Bizarrely though US citizens are unaffected by this, unless they are allowed in but go straight to isolation but I've not read that.
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>> Bizarrely though US citizens are unaffected by this, unless they are allowed in but go
>> straight to isolation but I've not read that.
I think those charged with such practicalities are still trying to catch up with the Commander in Chief's 'thinking'.
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Pretty sure international travel is shared across boarders, so would flag up if you just flew here to get to the US.
Cross over from Ireland to Holyhead on a ferry, catch a train or bus to Manchester or London. Passport tracking isn't that sophisticated...If you're an UK or Irish Citizen you can travel on photo ID (Driving Licence suffices)
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>> Cross over from Ireland to Holyhead on a ferry, catch a train or bus to
>> Manchester or London. Passport tracking isn't that sophisticated...If you're an UK or Irish Citizen you
>> can travel on photo ID (Driving Licence suffices)
AIUI Trump's measures are directed at Schengen countries. Ireland being like UK and outside Schengen is not affected - Irish citizens can still enter USA. Schengen citizens can probably enter UK via UK/EI land border and then ferry to Liverpool. They'd not get past check in/security at MAN or LHR though as passport check would identify them and they'd be declined boarding.
OTOH I don't see how they'd know I hadn't exercised my EU free movement rights on UK passport and gone directly from Eurostar to LHR before checking in with United to SFO........
But if the Donald has 'thought' this out for himself I don't suppose such detail will have troubled him.....
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 12 Mar 20 at 15:37
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Until a few days ago Trump still thought that Corona Virus was fake news (or a new soft drink), and that the good ol' US of A were above such inconveniences.
Purely by chance he happens upon a policy which might make sense as part of a package for the short term. But without other plans, the ban on European fights will make not the slightest difference to the outcome. The virus is out in the US community and infection will spread.
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It is highly likely that the US figures on the number of cases are highly underestimated due to the lack of testing kits and of a coordinated health system. They are woefully ill equipped to handle a major epidemic. Italy is struggling with one of the best health services in the world.
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Italy doesn't have a national health service as far as I know, how is health care paid for over there?
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It has an excellent health service, rated 2nd best in the world after France by WHO
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I believe they have to pay a bit towards treatment in France which I have long thought is an idea that should be explored - a bit like having an excess on an insurance policy. Private health insurance in my limited experience of using it usually has an annual excess.
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This gives a reasonably concise overview:
understandingitaly.com/health.html
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According to WHO Italy is number 2 in the world, UK is number 18, USA is 44 in the World.
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>> From the bits of news that I've seen, Trump has banned flights from mainland Europe
>> into the US; we have been welcoming flights from Italy with no precautions.
>>
>> At least, Trump's advisors recognise that the major factor in the rapid spread of this
>> virus is air travel.
It might be possible to construct a case based on that line of thought but nothing in what Trump has said suggests that to be his logic. Looks much more like domestic politicking of the type that will appeal to his core support.
Goodness knows what it will do to transatlantic trade, US tourism and the US's own airlines.
It will lose BA a lot of traffic interlining at LHR. More so KLM/Air France, Lufthansa etc from their bases.
I think it could be the final nail in the coffin of Norwegian Air Shuttle.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 12 Mar 20 at 14:02
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"Goodness knows what it will do to transatlantic trade, US tourism and the US's own airlines. "
I'm sure this will have been considered by Trump's advisors; at last, the threat of coronavirus is being taken seriously by some.
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>> "Goodness knows what it will do to transatlantic trade, US tourism and the US's own
>> airlines. "
>>
>> I'm sure this will have been considered by Trump's advisors; at last, the threat of
>> coronavirus is being taken seriously by some.
>>
I think your blind faith, whilst no doubt comforting, is unlikely to be well founded.
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>> "Goodness knows what it will do to transatlantic trade, US tourism and the US's own
>> airlines. "
>>
>> I'm sure this will have been considered by Trump's advisors; at last, the threat of
>> coronavirus is being taken seriously by some.
Er no, he didnt consult them, and doesn't trust any who dont agree with what he tells them.
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>> It might be possible to construct a case based on that line of thought but
>> nothing in what Trump has said suggests that to be his logic. Looks much more
>> like domestic politicking of the type that will appeal to his core support.
He called it, specifically "a foreign" virus. He consulted with no-one, his advisers were caught on the hop, the FAA and airlines similarly.
Slight weakness in his plan, anyone in Europe can travel to Heathrow and grab a flight to the US
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"Slight weakness in his plan, anyone in Europe can travel to Heathrow and grab a flight to the US"
But be prepared for a really welcoming arrival when you land there.
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>> But be prepared for a really welcoming arrival when you land there.
As far as the US goes thats business as usual no matter where you come from.
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>> Slight weakness in his plan, anyone in Europe can travel to Heathrow and grab a
>> flight to the US
Given the degree of scrutiny my documentation got from United's check in and gate agents in normal times (December 2018) I doubt anybody who has done that will get as far as an airline cabin.
Assume situation in US is same as here; carrier gets fined for 'illegals' arriving on their services.
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The Virus and its vaccine is being worked on not more that 1 mile from my home address at the Animal and Plant Health Agency, specifically on how it jumped the species boundary.
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>> www.itv.com/news/2020-03-12/british-government-wants-uk-to-acquire-coronavirus-herd-immunity-writes-robert-peston/
>>
An interesting and informative article showing a welcome level of logical joined up thinking by the government.
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Agreed.
And probably the first example of such thinking on the planet at this time. At least the first that has been published in the media.
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I agree. There was also an in-depth interview on Andrew Neil last evening with a scientist advising the govt on the social and behavioural aspects. Basically we probably have to accept the infection but flatten out the peak. The whole interview was intelligent and, while there was some challenging by Neil, it was a welcome relief from the current trend of trying to trip up interviewees.
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Sadly though so many people will fail to understand it and think we should be more like Trump.
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Just caught bits of the PM's press conference, but the parts that i did see I was quite impressed. For all his idiocy at times, in fairness he came across quite well as did the two government advisers. I found it quite professional and reassuring.
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I agree. I think we're taking a good measured response, based on scientific advice.
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Whereas I live in a country run by idiots and populated by flipping idiots who pride themselves on ignoring advice and absolutely accept as gospel all fake news..
I think that's the end for me in South America. Once this crisis is past, then it's back to Europe time
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 13 Mar 20 at 10:23
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The Costa Blanca is very nice this time of year. Past 2 afternoons on the beach, even some swimming ( amazed looks from the locals), nice fresh seafood, cheap gin, and fabulous mountain scenery.
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I watched the Press Conference and thought that the response to the crisis was measured and well thought out based on the known rather than speculation . I very rarely take these sort of scares such as Swine Flu /Avian Flu / Ebola seriously but the whole situation is becoming increasingly worrying for myself as a 70 year old with athsma.
I also feel sorry for those coming up to retirement as the value of their pensions has fallen dramatically in the last two weeks.I have one SIPP untaken which has fallen in value over 15% in the last week.
Increasingly I am concerned for those in the gig economy and the self employed who will be out of work very soon and even those in employment are going to suffer because supply chains are falling apart.
Going to get a LOT worse before it gets better.
Last edited by: helicopter on Fri 13 Mar 20 at 08:21
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value of their pensions has fallen dramatically in the last two weeks.I have one SIPP untaken which has fallen in value over 15% in the last week.
But for properly managed funds the upside is that as pensioner life expectancy falls the yields must go up?
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>> value of their pensions has fallen dramatically in the last two weeks.I have one SIPP
>> untaken which has fallen in value over 15% in the last week.
>>
>>
>> But for properly managed funds the upside is that as pensioner life expectancy falls the
>> yields must go up?
If you mean annuity rates then I wouldn't hold your breath!
I can't imagine many retirees buy annuities these days unless it's written into the policy. I had to buy a small one with £5k I had left over from some AVCs that I took most of as the tax free lump sum. It bought me £250 a year with no increases (would have been about half that had I wanted some RPI linkage).
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If you mean annuity rates
Sloppy writing - I should have said 'pension funds'
Annuity rates are surely actuarially based on life expectancy tables but this potential 'benefit' may take sometime to come through ........
I will not hold my breath, but on second thoughts maybe that is the answer?
Back of the envelope figures show current overall 2% mortality rate,
With a population distribution about 20-25% over 65
Would yield a mortality rate of around 10% for over 65s
Current life expectancy is about 20 -23 years at age of 65,
(currently lower, but was anticipated to rise).
My brain now hurts, anybody else like to try to work the impact on future life expectancy!
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Fri 13 Mar 20 at 12:41
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>> Current life expectancy is about 20 -23 years at age of 65,
>> (currently lower, but was anticipated to rise).
>> My brain now hurts, anybody else like to try to work the impact on future
>> life expectancy!
It would hopefully be a one-off effect anyway - with luck there will be some general level of immunity by next year, and maybe even vaccines and treatments.
I declare an interest, having spent the morning in a discussion about liability driven investments for a company defined benefit pension scheme that I am a trustee of. We didn't discuss this, but I suppose the effect would be to increase the funding level as the liabilities would fall should there be a higher-than-forecast level of mortality among both deferred members and pensioners.
It would make no difference to pensioner benefits, it would just reduce the deficit that the employer is on the hook for. Probably not by a lot in the great scheme - it would tend to be the older ones who died early, and some would have dependents who would continue to get a reduced pension.
In a defined contribution/money purchase scheme, it would depend on what the effect is on the economy and how that affects the investments. When people die, their bit of the fund gets paid out one way or another so doesn't directly affect the others.
I don't know enough about how other types of pension arrangements work to have much of a view.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 13 Mar 20 at 18:44
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Thank you for your comprehensive thoughts. I must admit to having made the mistake of not considering it as a one off event.
However as a pensioner member of a now closed defined benefits scheme I can appreciate your comments. The only benefit of a one off culling of the ageing membership will be the reduction in the liability of the employer for the current deficit. I suppose it may ultimately be reflected in a reduction of any drag on the share price:)
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I spoke too early.... took friends for a walk in the mountains today and on returning to the coast saw supermarket car parks full. Odd I thought.
Then heard about lockdown....all bars, restaurants, cinemas etc closed from midnight tonight. Initially 15 days but I expect it to be much longer.
After returning to supermarkets and stocking up with booze, plus bread, milk, water, pasta, we headed into Moraira. Lots of bars already closed. Some deserted. A few very busy. We had our last meal out for the foreseeable future.
Beaches cordoned off. Police visiting all bars to remind owners of the consequences of non compliance. Even my walking group has cancelled all organised walks as of this evening, which is the best course of action. I’ll still be walking in the mountains, then staying at our villa which I’m sharing with friends.
Lots of books to read. Alicante Jet2 flights back to Leeds full for the next few days....I’m due home in 2 weeks, but at the moment who knows. Strange times indeed.
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Our favourite local beach bar here in Portugal was closed today, but I'm not sure if there was an actual "event" or it is precautionary. Other bars were open but all seemed very quiet.
I'm meeting some English people who live here tomorrow and we will need to find out more about Portuguese plans as our knowledge is rather more about the UK.
Flights back are currently planned for 4 April. Apparently we can change them with EasyJet but at the moment the plan is to stay. (I had been thinking maybe we'd look for a long rental and tough it out here but that was when I thought it seemed pretty unaffected here).
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>> Flights back are currently planned for 4 April. Apparently we can change them with EasyJet
>> but at the moment the plan is to stay.
Think again, airlines are canceling flights and grounding aircraft faster than you can say "no way home" .
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FCO travel advice:
www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/spain
EXS271 which departed LBA for ALC @ 07:19 has done a U-turn in vicinity of Periguex and is returning to UK.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 14 Mar 20 at 09:12
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Flights from LBA to TFS Salzburg, and Malta also cancelled.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 14 Mar 20 at 09:21
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. Alicante Jet2 flights back to Leeds full for the next
>> few days....I’m due home in 2 weeks, but at the moment who knows. Strange times
>> indeed.
>>
Jet2 just cancelled all their flights into spain.
mobile.twitter.com/jet2tweets/status/1238770253691342849
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 14 Mar 20 at 11:53
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>> Jet2 just cancelled all their flights into spain.
>>
>> mobile.twitter.com/jet2tweets/status/1238770253691342849
Aircraft are positioning out empty to operate return legs.
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Four Jet2 planes from the UK to Spain have turned back in mid-air
Details
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-mystery-jet2-flights-start-21691756
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>> Four Jet2 planes from the UK to Spain have turned back in mid-air
>>
>> Details
>> www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-mystery-jet2-flights-start-21691756
For the reasons outlined in the tweet Sooty posted.
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>> Four Jet2 planes from the UK to Spain have turned back in mid-air
Elsewhere on social media people are complaining that Ryanair took them to Malta 'knowing' that they would immediately be quarantined in their hotel. Looks as though Ryanair and others are continuing to fly to Tenerife and Alicante although, as LL has reported, facilities are thin to non existent unless self catering.
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Social media? People complaining? Shorely not.
In Portugal SWMBO just found a FB group of English people (seems a mix of "ex-pat"s and tourists) specifically talking about the virus.
Speculation is rife about impending lock-down here, troops have already been spotted at the local Aldi.
Someone has just asked if anyone knows whether they'll be able to take their UK holiday in May.
Our current thinking is that we will keep calm and carry on while we can. Lockdown would be no fun if we can't go out during the day, even though we are in a comfortable and spacious town centre flat with it's own roof terrace and we came equipped with plenty of TV and other entertainment.
If we can't get flights easily friends in a villa up the road have offered us a room, also another mate has an empty villa (with pool!) not far away, and a flat on the sea front, and we met some of their relatives lats week who were going back home but offered us their flat if we need it. That's assuming we can't just stay on here...
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>Then heard about lockdown....all bars, restaurants, cinemas etc closed from midnight tonight.
My sister lives on Costa Blanca. Like most of her neighbors she usually does her shopping for fresh produce at the local markets but they have been suspended too. The big supermarket chains must be laughing into their tills.
The only positive news they had yesterday was that the Policia Local confirmed that restaurants are allowed to provide takeaways and home delivery if they want to.
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>> Whereas I live in a country run by idiots and populated by flipping idiots who
>> pride themselves on ignoring advice and absolutely accept as gospel all fake news.
>>
>> I think that's the end for me in South America. Once this crisis is past,
>> then it's back to Europe time
>>
...frying pan to fire if you're considering post-Brexit Britain....? ;-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 13 Mar 20 at 10:23
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>> I think that's the end for me in South America. Once this crisis is past,
>> then it's back to Europe time
Are we holding an "Oh Christ he's back", party?
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>>
>> Are we holding an "Oh Christ he's back", party?
>>
...only if we've all got Coronavirus...
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>> Sadly though so many people will fail to understand it and think we should be more like Trump.
>>
Does he understand what is happening in his own back yard ?
Why systemic problems leave the US at risk
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51840233
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All football in England suspended until at least 3rd April.
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Shame for the fans, hopefully the teams will spend some of the time teaching their players not to gob all over the pitch, which is pretty gross at the best of times.
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*Real* shame for Liverpool and their fans. Takes the shine off a significant achievement, somehow.
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How does it feel to be a laboratory rat in this government's experiment of Darwinian principles ?
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>> *Real* shame for Liverpool and their fans. Takes the shine off a significant achievement, somehow.
>>
As a Norwich supporter I think the only fair thing to do is to abandon this years competition completely and start again from scratch next year. Seems reasonable
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>> *Real* shame for Liverpool and their fans. Takes the shine off a significant achievement, somehow.
The shine went after they got complacent and started losing, they are in "bemused" phase at the moment.
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The shine went after they got complacent and started losing,
Yep, about last August down Carrow Road
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We got a message from our local Health Centre this afternoon, doors will be locked from Monday until further notice and you will only be allowed in if you have an appointment. We had to nominate a chemists where we can pick up any prescriptions.
Life is going to be a lot different for the foreseeable future, Haverfordwest town had only half the usual shoppers when I went in this afternoon and staff in some shops were wearing vinyl gloves.
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Trump declared that flights from Europe into the US would be banned. Trump, we hear, is a fidiot.
On Wednesday evening, 3000 football supporters went along to Anfield from Madrid ..... where they are playing football behind closed doors. Anyone feel that this would help to 'flatten our sombrero'?
Of course, we will be OK in the end because we will develop 'herd immunity'. Yeah, OK!
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What exactly is the point you are making?
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"What exactly is the point you are making?"
Sorry, CG, I was nodding off and in a hurry to go to bed; I will endeavor to explain further. There are actually 3 points here ……..
1. President Trump is not exactly everyone’s cup of tea; he would certainly not be my drinking partner of choice. There are some, however, who have such a hatred of the fellow that they dismiss, on principle, every word that he utters whether or not it is true or realistic. Hence there was uproar in certain quarters when Trump banned flights from Europe into the US – meanwhile, I understand that certain eastern countries are also banning flights arriving from Europe because Europe is now considered by many to be the current epicenter for the virus.
OK, I am a scientist but it shouldn’t be too difficult for anyone to acknowledge that air-travel is a major factor in the spread of human pathogens. Those of us who have benefitted from a training in classical phytopathology will probably be musing that air-travel, to the spread of Covid-19, is what the combine harvester was to common bunt of wheat (Tilletia caries – look it up).
2. On the other hand we in the UK allowed 3000 football fans to fly in, without any checks, from Madrid – a known heavily infected area where football has to be played behind closed-doors. It has been postulated that the graph of ‘infection numbers’ will rise slowly like the brim of a sombrero (in cross-section), rise rapidly to a peak at the top, then tail-off again. The idea, expressed in the UK, is that by ‘flattening’ the top of the sombrero, we can lower the number of infections occurring at one time so that our health services will be better able to cope. I do not believe that allowing the entry of people from areas of heavy infection will help to flatten the peak of that curve. In fact, if new variants of the virus were developing in different areas, then the introduction of such variants would not help the situation.
3. The term ‘herd immunity’ has been picked up enthusiastically by the media. Herd immunity will quite possibly develop over time, but we won’t really know that we have it until this pandemic is over; of course, it will only be of benefit to those who are left. How Covid-19 develops in the future and if we will be able to successfully introduce a vaccination program is anyone’s guess.
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I thought that Trump in the press conference gave a completely inadequate performance for the "leader of the free world".
He came across as confused, inarticulate and overwhelmed by events. As soon as he went slightly off the written script he could barely string two words together.
I was also concerned that 80% of the content was about how they were going to improve testing, and almost nothing about how they would treat those infected or needing hospitalisation.
By comparison to the UK and some other European nations it was a woefully inadequate response to the gravity of the problem facing us.
Whether the UK has got the reponse right I don't know (there's a lot we don't know about the dynamics of the virus) - but it is based on credible medical and scientific advice.
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"He came across as confused, inarticulate and overwhelmed by events. As soon as he went slightly off the written script he could barely string two words together."
Trump never seems to understand much anyway, but even the experts are having to make it up as they go along; the last leader I can think of with a knowledge of science was Mrs T, who was a chemist. This is World War 3 that we are talking about, not everyday politics - and the enemy is invisible. Right now, I am glad that I'm not the leader of the local tiddly-winks club, let alone the leader of a nation.
"By comparison to the UK and some other European nations it was a woefully inadequate response to the gravity of the problem facing us.
Whether the UK has got the reponse right I don't know....."
Many nations have expressed the opinion that the UK's response is inadequate. Personally, I think that it was too, although we are beginning to get the idea now.
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I think the UK has got the response right at this moment. We just need to see them keep pace with changes as the thing progresses.
Of course the media challenges them, there's not a much of a story in "The Government is right".
I must say though, the whole thing does make one reconsider germ warfare. Some bunch of nutters are going to realise the absolute panic and chaos one can cause without much effort or distribution infrastructure.
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>>"He came across as confused, inarticulate and overwhelmed by events.
>> As soon as he went slightly off the written script he could barely string two words together."
>>Trump never seems to understand much anyway,
13 Mar
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51877359
"No, we have no symptoms whatsoever," Mr Trump told reporters on Friday when asked why he has not been tested or why he has not self-isolated.
After a barrage of further questions at a White House news conference, the president said he would get tested.
The White House has continuously played down the president's exposure to the virus and has dismissed the need for him to be tested or to self-isolate.
Why systemic problems leave the US at risk
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51840233
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/14/trump-coronavirus-paid-sick-leave-unemployment-testing
The president spoke in the White House briefing room on Saturday, at a press conference before which reporters had their temperatures taken and one was turned away.
Nonetheless, on Saturday Trump told the media he had taken a test the night before and was awaiting results.
But Trump also announced a new self-diagnosis website created by Google, only for the tech giant to deny the project was on anything like the scale outlined by Trump and his aides; said “I don’t take responsibility at all” when asked why the US lagged behind other countries in testing for coronavirus; and reacted angrily to a question about why a key White House office for pandemic response was closed in 2018.
Better remind him him " The economy, stupid " and a new baseball cap embossed with" I have been tested"
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This makes interesting reading.
www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30195-X/fulltext?fbclid=IwAR2PEoAXOeDYXLSBmv1ybJ8qOrNSO5MNPwFcsUpzLO5-M4iGEl5B966FxTM
Ly may like to comment?
This has made me ponder a a worrying thought. Just suppose that a new viral disease began to circulate with really worrying mortality rates, how would the government manage the flow of information. The drip-drip model as is being used at the moment could easily be used to conceal the reality with the bodies remaining concealed in private dwellings (self isolation?). The only evidence that the public at large would see would be the loss of food and basic services starting to fail, and the disappearance of many recognisable faces in the broadcast enviroment.
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...I'm no statistician, but there seems to be an awful lot of dodgy maths in there.
I think the only constant measure you could possibly rely on is the number of deaths. The (confirmed) infection rate is highly dependent on the number of people tested, which will vary over the period with a significant number of factors, not least the underlying number of people who actually present themselves for testing (rather than self-isolation or forced-isolation - the number involved here is likely to have risen, perhaps greatly, during the infection), the timeliness of any presentation and testing, and any variation in testing practice. Far too much scope for statistical error.
As for the conspiracy theory - get more worried when Parliament is locked-down tighter than a gnat's whatsit - it isn't (....yet). ;-)
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>>
>> flow of information. The drip-drip model as is being used at the moment could easily
>> be used to conceal the reality with the bodies remaining concealed in private dwellings (self
>> isolation?). The only evidence that the public at large would see would be the loss
>> of food and basic services starting to fail, and the disappearance of many recognisable faces
>> in the broadcast enviroment.
>>
I think your imagination is running away with itself. Do you have signs of a fever? It can cause delirium.
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>>Do you have signs of a fever?
Yes, for several years - persistent cough, shortage of breath, muscle aches and occasional shakes. I'm just waiting for the high temperature for a full house.
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SIL is in Poland.
She is due back today but her flight has been cancelled as the airline couldn't fly in.
I have been told that I am not allowed in to any office or any clients' offices as I have asthma and work don't want to take any risks.
Work at home it is then.
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"This is no fun to read;"
Makes you sit back in your seat, doesn't it. We are heading to a small classical concert in a local village this evening then, after that, I suspect we will head (vaguely for now) into voluntary or compulsory self-isolation for a while.
We have tickets for 2 concerts at a 500-seat venue next Saturday/Monday - the Saturday one has already been cancelled and we expect the Monday one to follow suit.
Our wine society's planned trip to the Rioja region of Spain in May was cancelled by the committee yesterday. We have a Baltic cruise booked for June, with a final balance of payment due in about 10 days ........ I can't see that happening, but you never know. The cruise is with 'Cruise and Maritime' who put regular bulletins on their website; they have now posted a video address by their CEO who looks pretty knackered. I can only sympathise with the poor bloke.
www.cruiseandmaritime.com/news/cmv-coronavirus-update
What is happening in Chile?
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>>What is happening in Chile?
Utter chaos.
I think we've been protected here because of the temperature. But next week it is forecast to drop below 30 for the first time in months.
Airport checks are currently "Do you feel ok?" and if you say yes then you are allowed in.
The college of Surgeons released a statement this week saying that COVID-19 wasn't really much of a risk so people should just carry on as usual. A politician who had been denying the virus for weeks suddenly became a convert and condemded the College of Surgeons.
Test are free and freely available unless they're not. And then they're £120 and a waiting list.
I could go on, but you get the idea. And this in the environment where the riots are still ongoing despite them no longer being in the news.
It is not a confidence inspiring environment.
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As I understand it the virus can absolutely live for at least 48 hours on a surface with the potential to be surviving for several days in the right conditions.
I was in the pub last night. It's a pub owned by a friend of mine and I am well aware of his standards of hygiene - in particular glasses are washed at a very high temperature.
But then they are placed on a shelf for a period of time before eventually being used when a beer is served. So that's at least twice it has been touched by a human hand and also a period on a shelf before I put it in my mouth.
I might not be happy about that.
But then I started thinking about plates and cutlery in a restaurant.
I think I've quite disturbed myself.
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When hygiene is more than usually important, don't even think about eating in restaurants. And never have ice in drinks.
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I think a lot of people are still under the impression that they can avoid the disease by strict hygiene. Ultimately you can only avoid it for a while. Washing hands etc will hopefully mean you can dodge the bullet for a while but it will find you in the end. It’s only going to stop when the population as a whole develops an immunity. This will happen when around 80% of individuals have been infected or a vaccine has been developed. The Chinese strategy of containment will ultimately fail.
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>> The Chinese strategy of containment will ultimately fail.
We don't hear much about this but the premise of the UK approach seems to be that there is no stopping it, so if 60%-80% are going to be infected and there will be no virus for a year at least, then it should be spread out between now and maybe October.
Accepting the premise, the strategy is logical - but risky if it gets out of hand.
I don't think we could do what China has done anyway - they locked down one province, while resources were drawn from the rest of the country; not to mention the authoritarian government and correspondingly compliant population.
What happens then when China takes the lockdown off?
Italy had no choice - they were drowning. Doesn't mean it's the right thing for us, although my instinct would be a bit more prudence at this stage. Easier to release the genie than to get it back in the bottle.
I'm concerned that the daily increase in cases seems to have gone from 15% to 30% or more, notwithstanding that the measure is affected by the rate or, and policy towards, testing.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 14 Mar 20 at 18:05
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Just have a look at how many ICU beds you local hospital has.
Ours has 6 plus another 5 high dependency beds for a population of 150k.
The NHS will not be able to cope and there will be triage to decide on those most likely to survive.
Many will die that would likely have survived at other times due to lack of beds.
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"Many will die that would likely have survived at other times due to lack of beds."
How many ICU beds would you suggest we should have on stand-by? Would 100k be enough?
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>> "Many will die that would likely have survived at other times due to lack of
>> beds."
>>
>> How many ICU beds would you suggest we should have on stand-by? Would 100k be
>> enough?
>>
I wasn't. I was just pointing out some issues.
Though I suppose we trust the NHS to look after us and we pay taxes for it to do so. Seems a bit rough when you've paid in all your life and then there aren't the facilities to help when you really need it.
They should therefore have some reserve for issues like this, even if we know that they would never be able to look after 100% of the sick.
Our god daughter is undergoing chemo at the moment and she has been told that the chances of being able to have all her treatment is slim should the crisis continue, which will shorten her already young life even further.
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>> Many will die that would likely have survived at other times due to lack of
>> beds.
Or a bad case of flu, but being flu no-one gives a stuff.
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How I yearn for those happy carefree days when we used to argue about Brexit.
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Outrageously Miss Z a junior doctor on A&E has not been given a face mask and the hospital has no intention to provide fit tested masks.
At the moment only consultants and specialists have been provided with the appropriate equipment.
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Is she able to procure her own?
I remember when I went out with Thames Valley motorway police some years back the guy had bought his own stab vrest as they weren't provided at that time. Not a great situation really.
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>> Is she able to procure her own?
>>
No, they are fit tested and if not done properly the Trust won't let staff wear them as they give a false sense of security.
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'At the moment only consultants and specialists have been provided with the appropriate equipment.'
Generally their exposure is far more controlled than the sharp end in A&E.
That's disgusting Zippy and just an example of how restrictive practices and slavery to the hierarchical system is thriving in areas of the NHS.
Boris announces unlimited funds to help with the virus. How much will go to the sharp end and what percentage will find its way ultimately towards Mercedes a BMW dealerships?
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We seem to be in grave danger here of talking ourselves into a blind panic. Everyone has fixed their gaze on "Absolute worst case scenario".
I suppose we'd better stock up on toilet rolls just in case. No matter how bad it gets we'll have the comfort of a nice wipe after a dump.
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>>We seem to be in grave danger here of talking ourselves into a blind panic. Everyone has fixed their gaze on "Absolute worst case scenario".
Yup, fear of the virus can do as much if not more harm than the virus itself.
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Listening to Maajid Nawaz on LBC this afternoon. Generally cant stand the bloke. Bullying and confrontational and talks down most of the people who ring in. End up switching off.
He was talking to some lady with an 'ology based around epidemics, more of an academic I felt. Tried to belittle her with her her theory that the spread would go on for longer and reach deeper than Boris was prepared to speculate. MW clung to the notion that all the government experts knew what the were talking about and that the warmer summer weather would help see off the virus.
Well it doesn't seem to be having much effect in Australia at the moment she responds . :)
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Coronavirus - Volume 3 - No FM2R
