With some form of economic depression being forecast, although how severe and it’s length are open to debate, does anyone have any thoughts on future residential property values ? I know that the SE has its own bubble, and there are obvious regional variations, but I’m trying to get a general feel for the housing market.
I’m wanting to downsize in the short to medium term, so wondered if this year may be a good time to sell and possibly move into rented short term.
An acquaintance of mine has also made me a business proposition. I lend him money to buy some land which already has planning permission for 3 houses, then when the first house is sold he pays me back the loan at 8% APR. I will have a first charge on it. In the event of the houses not selling, then he and his partners (2 builders) will take out ‘buy to let’ mortgages. A solicitor pal, head of property services at a large firm, will do my legal paperwork and I’ve known him for over 30 years so no worries in that department.
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You have to think - "what could go wrong?" - lots
The bottom falls out of the market, the houses are badly built and do not sell, the 3 partners fall out amongst themselves .............
8%?
Surely they could borrow money for a lot less than that by putting up their own homes as security or is it a case that the have very little in assets only the ambition to make money with someone else doing the financial heavy lifting?
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I don't think friends and money are very good mix. Especially if it's too do with the housing, no one can guess too much about which way prices will go but its a fair bet they aren't going to be selling too many as the housing market is unlikely to be red hot for quite some time.
How much longer can you stay in your current home? It's very difficult for anyone to get a feel for house prices as there's so little on the market right now to make a judgement on.
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>> I don't think friends and money are very good mix.
That and what Zero said:-
Question I would ask myself. Would a commercial lender accept this risk, if the answer is yes, why havent they used one?
And the question he didn't ask himself is "Would a commercial lender REFUSE this risk, if the answer is yes, why should I accept it?
I think that works out to no, no and no.
OK. Perhaps it's me, perhaps I am too cautious?
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It's entirely possible that LL could be in possession of more information than a potential commercial lender, or to be prepared to take account of information that they choose not to use.
Given there are three partners in the project, and 2 of them are builders, maybe one or both of them has a poor history. Many builders have been bankrupt at some point.
I'd be cautious. I assume the amount involved is a material chunk of LL's cash. He probably wouldn't normally put such an amount into one investment, so that is Rule 1 broken.
That said if LL has first charge security then he can reduce the risk a lot by confirming the realistic value of the land to be developed (taking care with the planning permission aspect) and lending only a proportion of that. That may well be the rubbing point with a commercial lender.
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Question I would ask myself. Would a commercial lender accept this risk, if the answer is yes, why havent they used one?
The single most important question is. Can you afford to lose the money.
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I'd put an offer on a bungalow just before this all started.
I suspect property prices will drop, particularly bungalows. The majority I looked at were probate sales and with the old being worse affected there could be even more available.
If I survive it, I reckon it could be to my advantage.
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I have left strict instructions with my son to do, or at least arrange the humane thing for me if I ever start to take an interest in a Honda Jazz or a bungalow.
;-)
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We moved into a bungalow last time (3 years ago). First bijou house for me to live in. In truth I've found it a bit small of late. I love my books: Bike books, car books, history books...so I think we've grown out of this place. There is another reason to move again, to be closer to the in-laws. So we're on the move again. Not sure what we're looking for - certainly a bit more space...time will tell.
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>> We moved into a bungalow last time (3 years ago). First bijou house for me
>> to live in. In truth I've found it a bit small of late. I love
>> my books: Bike books, car books, history books...so I think we've grown out of this
>> place. There is another reason to move again, to be closer to the in-laws. So
>> we're on the move again. Not sure what we're looking for - certainly a bit
>> more space...time will tell.
>>
How did you find living in a bungalow, I've always been put off them. Regret moving into one?
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It's OK Sooty - size matters for me I think. Just a little small maybe. We were about to spend money on increasing the usable space (knocking walls down to extend the kitchen) already had surveys done etc before the plague hit.
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Both propositions are about an appetite for risk.
Going into a venture to buy land, build three houses etc has lots of inherent risks:
- need to trust your potential partners absolutely,
- construction costs are as budgeted,
- death or incapacity of any of the partners,
- properties can either be sold at sensible price, or are capable of rental,
- that if the latter, a buy to let mortgage is available
Trying to find the right time to downsize is similarly subject to risk, albeit far less than the other proposition. Making assumptions that one type of property will move in price differently to another type over the coming few years is probably more about personal bias than hard evidence.
It would probably make more sense to decide whether you want to downsize for practical reasons - capital to bolster pension, maintenance becoming too much, want town rather than country etc.
Picking the right time based on perceived financial benefit ratchets up the risk, and may make no difference to standard of living, or the future. So why worry?
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Meant in a nice way, and with some jealousy, you keep banging on LL about how you can walk for miles etc without seeing a soul and you and your mates in the village have your own "pub" and you make it sound like you where you live ticks all of your boxes.
So I'd be suggesting you look carefully at your motivation and think about whether you will be happy elsewhere.
OTOH (and I am a year or so younger than you) I do believe if there's something you want to do then you should just get on and do it (within reason!) as you never know what tomorrow might bring (especially with this virus of course).
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First estimate I've seen is from the BoE, they estimate a 16% drop in house prices this year.
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Does it matter about price drops - there may be some right bargains out there.
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>> Does it matter about price drops - there may be some right bargains out there.
>>
Expected price drops? Yes I think they matter, people will be put off buying if they think they can wait 6 months and get 10/20/30 grand off.
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My daughter got keys to her first house a week past Monday. I hummed and hawed on the best advice - I was originally just wanting her to walk away and reconsider in a few months - maybe house prices would fall etc.
At end of day this is the start of a long ownership, its her home, not an investment plan. There will be ups and downs over the ownership period.
The clincher was she had a 95% mortgage, but as the interest rates got slashed again, the banks all pulled their low deposit mortgages.
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>> Does it matter about price drops - there may be some right bargains out there.
It maters if you are investing your nest egg in a "property" deal
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There is a real problem for young second time buyers too. My son bought his first house early last year. He was moved on promotion this January to another office 100 miles away, his house has been on the market ever since.
His company gave him a relocation grant but I doubt they are in a position to help him out to bridge the gap as their business will be tight for a while.
The fact that any new house will be cheaper if prices crash is no help as he will have negative equity of maybe £30k. It's one thing sitting on negative equity but another if you have to sell and buy elsewhere.
Just another example of most of us being poorer in the medium term.
Luckily I take a long term view of housing.
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I know of two house sales in London where prices were agreed before the virus hit. In both cases the purchasers were due to exchange contracts after the lock-down and they gazundered the sellers by 5%. Both sellers agreed to get the deal done (and possibly gazundered their sellers in turn?). I think Savills said they reckon on a 10% drop in prices this year. I suspect this is probably right. The market will come back but uncertainty as to where the necessary taxes to pay for the virus will fall will restrain things.
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To update, I backed out of the transaction yesterday.
My solicitor pal, head of Property Services in a large legal firm, was happy to draw up a watertight contract with personal guarantees from the 3 directors, plus a single charge on the building land in my name. Which would only increase in value once building work got under way. They were happy to provide me with personal financial guarantees to boot.
A second independent land valuation, spreadsheets with building costs, labour, materials, proposed sales values and margins all in order.
The only fly in the ointment was residential property values in 12/15 months. Which we can only second guess.
Incidentally my solicitor pal, who deals with million pound land purchases, said that as a small building company, even long established with a strong track record, would not be able to borrow at the moment from main stream banks and would have to borrow from ‘secondary lenders’ at far higher rates. Far higher than the 8%pa I was offered.
I just got cold feet, but might be kicking myself in 12 months.
Moving on..
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My estate agent cousin, covers South East London, North Kent, is working his socks off.
Properties are getting offers for full asking price on day of first viewing, tomorrow he has 20 viewings booked across 4 properties, and expects full asking price offers by close of business.
He's not sure if its a post lockdown feeding frenzy, or how long it will last.
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That's a pretty crazy rush. I wonder if it's people who had to move, be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks or months.
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>> That's a pretty crazy rush. I wonder if it's people who had to move, be
>> interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks or months.
Who knows. He does lettings and small commercial. Lettings is OK, but he is keeping a weather eye on the small commercial portfolio, Lockup shops, lockups, small commercial and offices he reckons will take a complete caning.
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Anecdotally, given the current situation, people are realising space is more important, and outside space particularly so, than previously was the case. And a shift to more home working means less need to be in or near city centres. I took that with a pinch of salt, as I think it’s too early to say. But certainly an estate agent I know in Sussex echos Z’s source.
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>> Anecdotally, given the current situation, people are realising space is more important, and outside space
>> particularly so, than previously was the case. And a shift to more home working means
>> less need to be in or near city centres. I took that with a pinch
>> of salt, as I think it’s too early to say. But certainly an estate agent
>> I know in Sussex echos Z’s source.
>>
We are thinking of moving, saw a house been on online one day. Already taken off sale, they've got 12 viewings booked. I guess they is a fair bit of built up demand.
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>> We are thinking of moving, saw a house been on online one day. Already taken
>> off sale, they've got 12 viewings booked. I guess they is a fair bit of
>> built up demand.
I think the 'boom' is heavily regionalised. Was speaking to somebody in a non touristy bit of Cornwall last week. Property owned for several years likely to slip back into negative equity. Priced for a quick sale but not much interest.
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>> I think the 'boom' is heavily regionalised. Was speaking to somebody in a non touristy
>> bit of Cornwall last week. Property owned for several years likely to slip back into
>> negative equity. Priced for a quick sale but not much interest.
It was ever thus, the property market has always been heavily regionalised. But if "telecommuting" does stick, regions will change. Cornwall will always suffer from its poor travel connections and facilities
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>>We are thinking of moving, saw a house been on online one day. Already taken off sale, they've got 12 viewings booked. I guess they is a fair bit of built up demand.
That's been my experience too - I registered interest in a couple of properties, but they were sold without the estate agent even contacting me.
I phoned an agent on Friday to arrange a viewing of a property on Bodmin Moor .. they haven't got back to me yet.
Not all estate agents are like this of course, some I know of are 'on the ball' but, they haven't got the properties I'm interested in buying :)
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SQ!
>> We are thinking of moving, saw a house been on online one day. Already taken
>> off sale, they've got 12 viewings booked. I guess they is a fair bit of
>> built up demand.
>>
Just found out the owner had 5/6 offers, all turned down and its now back in the market.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 27 May 20 at 18:54
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I suspect there are people chancing ridiculous offers.
OTOH it could be that no offers were made but they are stringing you a line to encourage you to bite quickly.
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>> I suspect there are people chancing ridiculous offers.
Who knows perhaps.
>>
>> OTOH it could be that no offers were made but they are stringing you a
>> line to encourage you to bite quickly.
Possibly, but 12 viewings in the first day on the market and no offers seems less likely. But again who knows.
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>>but might be kicking myself in 12 months.
I do not know the investment needed to buy land & finance the build.
However, if they cannot borrow from a bank then they need private finance.
Too risky for you but someone that is minted then it might be worth a punt - the chance of them finding somebody is quite small.
In 12 months things might be clearer as to what is happening & you might then be in a position to take it on assuming the land is still for sale & the "builder pals" are all still talking.
I live in a house that was built by someone I knew - he bought land & built houses. He staggered from making money to almost bankrupt every few years - his own home + plots in hawk to the bank as security.
The only time he had "real money" was when he sold out for £150,000 - does not sound a lot today but back then he was selling 3 beds for £7K & 4 beds under £9K - average pay was under £900/year.
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The land purchase is going ahead. They always had a plan B to borrow from a ‘secondary lender’ at a higher interest rate, with the consequence of a smaller gross profit. They are self financing the actual build and have extensive previous experience of such things. Very successfully.
I’m sure the properties will be built and for sale within 12/15 months.
The only unknown, and the only reason I withdrew from the transaction, was future residential values in the short to medium term in an area I wasn’t familiar with. Where I live property prices are holding up very well...whether that will continue who knows.
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>>Where I live property prices are holding up very well...whether that will continue who knows.
I have a property dilemma taking place at the moment in as much as I put my cottage on the market back in mid Feb, had 6 viewings in no time at all, and accepted an offer just £5k below asking.
Then along comes the lockdown. Buyers still on board as are their buyers but, nothing can be done.
Boris announces easing of said lockdown, had survey done here last Tuesday, buyer accepts the damp west-facing walls!! but, the 5 properties we've been looking at have all gorn under offer, also in no time at all.
So, I've been looking at renting a place for 6 months and see how the property market goes but, d'you think I can find a rental that would accept 2 large (ish) dogs ... no chance.
What to do?? .. I don't want to let the 'yam yams' down, who are such a nice couple with a teenage daughter who will be attending college in Cornwall come September and, we're due to exchange con-tracts any time soon :o)
OMG.
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What to do?? .. I don't want to let the 'yam yams' down, who are
>> such a nice couple with a teenage daughter who will be attending college in Cornwall
>> come September and, we're due to exchange con-tracts any time soon :o)
>>
>> OMG.
>>
>>
Have you thought about renting a holiday let place? Last holiday cottage we went on holiday to the other half of the building was rented out to a retired couple who were moving overseas and had sold their house already. I think they were there for around 5 months.
They tend to be much more understanding with dogs as well.
Where are you moving to?
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>>Have you thought about renting a holiday let place?
Yup, but wouldn't easy with the lockdown. I shall choose that option as a last, um, resort.
>>Where are you moving to?
Not too bothered about area really, as long as it's in England. Been looking (on-line) at places in Cornwall, Herefordshire, and Exmoor. The couple who are selling the Exmoor property aren't actively looking at other property - until they get a buyer for theirs!
PITA this property buying/selling lark - my 9th :(
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>> >>Have you thought about renting a holiday let place?
>>
>> Yup, but wouldn't easy with the lockdown. I shall choose that option as a last,
>> um, resort.
Might be easier than you think, not likely to be fully booked!
>> >>Where are you moving to?
>>
>> Not too bothered about area really, as long as it's in England. Been looking (on-line)
>> at places in Cornwall, Herefordshire, and Exmoor. The couple who are selling the Exmoor property
>> aren't actively looking at other property - until they get a buyer for theirs!
>>
>> PITA this property buying/selling lark - my 9th :(
>>
How come you moving?
Herefordshire is quite nice, went on holiday there once. Lovely countryside. Don't know much about the SW, not been there.
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>>Might be easier than you think, not likely to be fully booked!
Yup especially on farms that I know - hidden away ;-)
>>How come you moving?
Been here 9 years now, that's a long time for me. Fancy a move though, a change is as good as a rest.
>>Herefordshire is quite nice
Indeed it is, and not too touristy, unlike Cornwall, Devon etc. etc.
Orf out now ... with the dogs.
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I'd agree with that up to a point but I do think there is a whole load of people who haven't been affected so seriously and who are chomping at the bit to spend. As I mentioned elsewhere, cars, houses etc. Everything will have queues as it opens up, not just the hairdressers or the tips.
If property prices do crash then investors with money to use, in particular some oldies with a nice fat pension pot maybe not earning so much as interest rates are cut, will buy on the dip as a longer term investment, and thus become landlords to those who can't (and will probably never be able to) afford to buy. Sooner or later the market will start to rise - it could take years but it will happen.
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Currently, I wouldn't invest money in property for the short term, nor would I, based on whats currently happening, "take the first half decent offer" either.
Long term, 7 years plus, property is up. Always has been always will be.
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I have a house to build. I hope it won't be a bad investment but I need to do it anyway. I'm actually not too unhappy with doing it now - inflation is likely at some point and building it probably won't get cheaper. After that, whatever happens happens.
I'm slightly concerned that some materials might be in short supply. Plaster is one that's hard to find but we won't be at that stage for a while, and for most things like bricks, render, roof tiles, fixtures and fittings there should be alternatives.
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This feels like it's been a long time in the making - what's the timeframe Manatee?
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It's taken longer than I wanted it to and I'm not sure why, so it must be my fault!
However the planning app is in and the decision date is mid-July if it goes well. Meanwhile we will probably do the groundworks design so we are ready to go. We won't order the frame until we have permission. I would hope to be in by next April but these are strange times.
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>> I have a house to build. I hope it won't be a bad investment
You are not building to invest, you are re-building your home.
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>> >> I have a house to build. I hope it won't be a bad investment
>>
>>
>> You are not building to invest, you are re-building your home.
>>
We traded up our current money pit in 2018, not because we thought prices would rise but potentially fall due to Brexit. We really wanted to move to the specific road.
If we were right that would potentially mean that the market would slow down to the extent that houses for sale in the area we wanted to move to would become very rare and we really wanted to move to this area. Or that the general market would slow due to negative equity that sales would slow down and any move that we wanted to make would prove more difficult.
If we were wrong then house prices would rise and the gap would get bigger.
Also wondered about interest rates. I thought generally that if the economy need support then rates would fall. However, if the £ fell sharply then there may have been a need to increase interest rates to support it. I went with a 5 year fix at less than 2% on the basis that anything less would be a marginal saving but dramatic increases would hurt.
Last edited by: zippy on Mon 25 May 20 at 18:42
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>> >> I have a house to build. I hope it won't be a bad investment
>>
>>
>> You are not building to invest, you are re-building your home.
True but I still don't want it to be a bad investment.
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>> >> >> I have a house to build. I hope it won't be a bad
>> investment
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> You are not building to invest, you are re-building your home.
>>
>> True but I still don't want it to be a bad investment.
I take your point, but ROI on a home ought to be measured quite differently and probably not in £s.
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>>I take your point, but ROI on a home ought to be measured quite differently and probably not in £s.
Oh, you're right.
As a financial exercise it is sub-optimal. I did a pre-app exercise with the council to try and understand what we would be allowed to build (there are pros and cons with this as you can imagine) and the case officer's immediate advice was to build a pair of semis "because you'll make more money".
TBH I wouldn't have minded - I'd like to move nearer Cambridge anyway. But my boon companion wants to live there. So she will, I hope, get the house she has always wanted in the place she wants to live for now, which will cost as much to build as the pair of semis but will not be worth as much. Then at some undefined time (if spared) we will probably sell it and move to Cambs. anyway.
So one of my objectives is that we create more value in the new house than the money we have to add to the insurance payout so we (or the children) will be no worse off than if we had just let the insurers reinstate the old place. And we'll live in a nicer house at least for as long as we stay upright.
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>> Plaster is one that's hard to find
Never yet met a plasterer who wasn't capable of solving all supply problems that stand between him and a day's pay.
Though one has to be careful of premiums being charged.
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The reason it is hard to find is that the only manufacturer in UK of plaster and plasterboard is British Gypsum and they have only just restarted manufacture after closing in March when lockdown came in.
Strict rationing in place by them at the moment to their distributors and customers.
A 25 kg bag is normally £7.50. Currently bags on ebay up to £40 .each
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Making that kind of profit on Ebay they can afford to get plastered every day
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>>British Gypsum...
Many years ago I had to write a report (educational) on British Gypsum's mine at Mountfield, Battle.
It was for economics and the lecturer was miffed that I had not suggested that I had not considered more efficient industrial siting - i.e. moving nearer to larger conurbations, new towns, motorway communications, power, water etc.
I had to point out that the mines tended to be where the raw materials are found and mother nature can be a bit awkward about where such materials can be found.
I must say that British Gypsum where absolutely excellent in proving reams of info about how they got the stuff out of the ground and even invited us for a tour. They use a ski lift apparatus to move materials from the mine to the processing plant.
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>>British Gypsum's mine at Mountfield, Battle.
I used to have a few customers out there back when I was in the mobile car tuning game, like visiting a Homepride factory.
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British Gypsum's technical information for architects/designers, and construction staff is second to none. They used to issue a 300 page document - "The White Book" -may still do, but I think it's all on line now.
Last edited by: neiltoo on Tue 26 May 20 at 11:13
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Seems pretty active here right now.
Neighbour in cul-de-sac is moving to South Wales with change of work starting in July. Sold in less than a week, no signs or anything and completion expected end of June. Presume they've found somewhere down there.
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>> Seems pretty active here right now.
>>
Agree.
Rightmove has had loads of houses added locally each day recently. Not the sort of thing you see in a slump. Prices are also very strong - very few "reduced price" entries.
It may become a problem if it leads to over supply.
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South Wales - Presume they've found somewhere down there.
Probably bought a street!
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Dunno how they got past the Hedlu border patrol to get there for a viewing.
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Disguised themselves as sheep.
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Only if you drop something.
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>> Disguised themselves as sheep Dominic Cummings and Mary Wakefield.
>>
...fixed that for you...
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I'm still looking for a property to buy or rent, without much success though I'm afraid.
This 2 bed bungalow would make an ideal investment for someone with £375k sitting in the bank.
It would rent out out 12 months of the year no prob: www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-92772221.html
I could buy it, but it's not really what I'm really looking for, plus I've done the barn conversion thing 15 years ago up on Bodmin Moor.
Plan B is for me to buy a camper van and live in that with my 2 dogs for 6 months, and rent a place for 'the ole woman'.
She didn't think much to that idea, but it quite appeals to me :o)
I did the Hymer thing 22 years ago - LHD Merc diesel, a pig to lug around but nice to 'live' in.
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As this is a bit of a property thread I thought I'd ask here. Seen a house that we quite like, however it has electric underfloor heating. Anyone had it, pros & cons, what are the costs like to run them? I don't think I've known anyone that has it, so don't know much about them.
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Forgot to add, room is 7m x 3.5m and has a tile floor.
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Our kitchen has electric underfloor heating. It’s great in the winter but I think it’s expensive run at about £5 a week.
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>> Our kitchen has electric underfloor heating. It’s great in the winter but I think it’s
>> expensive run at about £5 a week.
>>
Thanks for that, if you don't mind me asking how big is your kitchen?
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=>> Thanks for that, if you don't mind me asking how big is your kitchen?
Again if you don't mind, how often do you have it on during the day?
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 31 May 20 at 19:40
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Its on all day in the winter - there is a thermostat and timer clock somewhere.
The kitchen is just over 11 x 10 and the utility is just over 11 x 5
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 31 May 20 at 20:39
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Typically the power rating is 100 - 200W / m² so for your room of 24.5m² you are looking at between 2.4 - 4.8 kW. For a kitchen I would expect it's at the lower end - especially if it's all controlled off one thermostat. Usually the wires are laid just under the tiles over some insulation board, so it heats up pretty quick. How much it's on will depend on the insulation in the room of course, but 2kW is a fairly big output, so it probably won't be on for long!! You might be looking at 2-3 kWh per day however, which is getting close to the £5 / week quoted elsewhere.
I've got 2 bits here - about 600W in a porch cum utlility which works well, no idea how much it costs to run mind... I also put it under the tiles in a new bathroom, but it went open circuit a few months after installing, and I haven't got around to investigating it, I suspect the tails have fallen off the heating wire, but that means lifting a tile to find out....
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Thanks all for the advice, however on balance we thought that the house wasn't really for us. Back to Rightmove!
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 1 Jun 20 at 12:05
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>> As this is a bit of a property thread I thought I'd ask here. Seen
>> a house that we quite like,
Usually expected in a modern kitchen with tiled floor.
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>>Usually expected in a modern kitchen with tiled floor.
wonder how much energy is used just offsetting the coldness of the tiles!
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>>wonder how much energy is used just offsetting the coldness of the tiles!
Assuming it is fully insulated beneath the heating pipes, then not so much different to the impact of cold tiles on a warm room with above floor heating I'd guess..
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>> Usually expected in a modern kitchen with tiled floor.
Daughter and her Husband moved last year to a typical inter-war semi. Previous owners extend about 20 feet rearwards across full width to give a kitchen/diner with former kitchen as utility and back (as opposed to front) room as a snug.
Slate tiles with ample insulation below and underfloor heating off gas boiler circuit. Lovely and warm, the tiles hold heat and there's none of the cold that Bobby mentions. Their Cocker Spaniel loves the warm floor.
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Next door has installed some on his gas ch - as said above, nice even warmth and it holds heat well. he has it on a separate circuit with it''s own stat I believe, there was some reason for doing it so but I can't recall it.
However I imagine that, comparatively, electric would be pricey to run.
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>>electric underfloor heating
I know nothing about electric underfloor heating. But in case it is of value, we have underfloor heating driven by the gas central heating in the kitchen, the breakfast room and one of the bathrooms.
I particularly notice it in the breakfast room. Obviously it is not good for instant heat, not like sitting on a radiator if you've come in from the cold, but it gives the room a lovely warm feeling all the time, without any particular sense of a source of heat. Stone tiled floor.
There are two radiators in the room which have additional individual thermostats and they are very rarely anything other than faintly warm.
I can't think of a downside though I have no idea of the cost to run it - the house is so b***** expensive to heat anyway that it never really stood out.
I'd absolutely have underfloor heating again.
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My first experience with underfloor heating was in the Center Parcs lodges.
A real novelty when first experienced back in the late 90s. In the lodges you tend to kick your shoes off in the hallway so feeling the heat under your feet in the tiled kitchen and bathrooms was great.
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I’ve no experience of electric underfloor heating. Last year on this forum I asked about the very same when planning two 20yo bathroom refurbs. Out went the tiles. In came vinyl plank. Much warmer, cheaper to install, no running costs.
OTOH. My downstairs single storey extension has zoned underfloor heating. Hot water in pipes laid in screed, fed off the boiler. An extensive open tiled area. Takes a while to warm up, but once warm remains warm on a stat. The heat rises and warms the upper floor. Blooming marvellous. Make sure you don’t have too much excess furniture absorbing the heat.
Or better still spend the winter in Spain should circumstances allow.
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>>Or better still spend the winter in Spain should circumstances allow.
Where the tiled floors in almost all properties are shockingly cold in winter :)
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Very true! I wear my flip flops more indoors than out. Let’s the dogs breath and they get washed in the shower on a daily basis. Prefer them to slippers.
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I've been in sandals for a few months now - much healthier for the toots.
I bought a pair of ECCO sandals on Amazon for under 50 notes (gorn up now!) and am well pleased wivvem.
BTW ... I don't wear socks with sandals!!
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Glad to hear it...
On cold tiled floors overseas I always prefer flip flops to slippers.
Now I’ve hiked hundreds of miles in sandals over the years. Fortunately I don’t need ankle support, for which I am very grateful, but on serious hikes I use foot creams in the evening after washing the dogs to prevent skin cracking (Gehwol Extra and Gehwol Refreshing Balm). Obviously on rough terrain I use trail shoes...my favs at the moment are Hoka One One Stinson ATR. They look a bit stupid, but their broad fitting is perfect for my feet, and the shock absorbing over rough ground ( and tarmac) is second to none.
I’m on my third pair
Sandals I’m also on my third pair of Teva Mens Hurricane XTL. Synthetic so quick drying, grippy, long lasting, multi adjustable for comfort, and they scrub up well in the shower. Highly recommended.
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At the risk of bringing this back on topic, speaking to an estate agent friend just now a house down the road went on the market Thursday last week and had 5 viewings and two offers over asking price in 36 hours. It also had underfloor heating downstairs, but I didn’t ascertain what footwear was preferred!
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>> 5 viewings and two offers over asking price in 36 hours
I'm not sir prized - it's similar in Cornwall, which is why we're going to rent somewhere, but even that is turning out to be almost impossible due to the fact we have two mad dogs :)
I'm seriously thinking about buying a campervan and, going by what Pugugly said earlier, it would be Sprinter-based.
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I used to wear sandals when I walked over to Guaza and Palm Mar from Los Cris back in the day, but these days I prefer a pair of 'proper' hiking boots.
I have a pair of Hanwags and a pair of Zamberlans which set me back the thick end of £250+ each.
I also have a pair of Meindl hiking boots but I don't walk/hike anything like what you do, you must be very fit!
My ECCO 'offroad' sandals are similar to your Teva jobbies, but with leather uppers = very comfortable.
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>>I also have a pair of Meindl hiking boots
So do I. Old fashioned leather but absolute bliss to walk in. Burma Pro memory foam jobs. I imagine they would insulate the plates from cold tiles too.
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>>So do I. Old fashioned leather but absolute bliss to walk in
Try the Hanwag Berglers next time - they are grrreat Toni.
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>> >>So do I. Old fashioned leather but absolute bliss to walk in
>>
>> Try the Hanwag Berglers next time - they are grrreat Toni.
Out of my price range, but they seem to be incredibly heavy? Good bragging rights with ball bearing lacing - didn't know there was such a thing.
www.hanwag.com/hanwag-mens-bergler-maronechestnut-h1114/
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>>but they seem to be incredibly heavy?
I like heavy boots, they give me momentum :o) my Zamberlan Latemars are even heavier:
www.uttings.co.uk/p110776-zamberlan-1023-latemar-nw-walking-boots-men-s-waxed-dark-brown-1023/#.XtTuvzOSlPY
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>>I bought a pair of ECCO sandals on Amazon for under 50 notes
This is crrrazy - I paid £36 for my ECCO offroad men's open toe sandals on March 19th.
They are now asking £104.98 for the self-same sandals!
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The least successful boots I have ever had were Brasher. Fit is everything which is why I was attracted to memory foam linings, it suggests a bit of 'moulding' and I think it works. The Meindls have no detectable pressure points at all for me.
On the other hand (foot?) I was so impressed when I first got them I tried to insist on getting the boss a pair. They were nowhere near fitting her in any size.
She now has some Grisports that were only £60 or so and loves them.
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>>She now has some Grisports
Same with my ole woman. Italian (brand) good boots with Vibram sole.
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Managed to make an offer on an owse this week - luvly place, 3 bed, pantry, utility, study, 17ft conservatory with a slated insulated roof!
Plantsman's garden (whatever that means) blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, apple and pear trees, garage with studio attached (used to be a double garage) 4 FOUR bogs, who the fk needs 4 toilets?? 4 man caves too.
Bore hole / private drainage (again!) so far from the mad-ding crowd (yippie!) bulk gas too, which is a new one on me.
Woman selling it has just 'lost' her husband, she's in her 80's so time to down size. This place only came on the market last week - we were the first to view it and I offered the 'fool' asking price. Crazy maybe, I've only ever done that with exceptional properties, and this is an exceptional property.
Only downside is it's (lays back from) on an A road so not crematory-quiet like this place but, oh what exceptional views over open country, unlike here which is surrounded by high trees. Been here 9 years now - time to move on.
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>> Managed to make an offer on an owse this week - luvly place, 3 bed,
>> pantry, utility, study, 17ft conservatory with a slated insulated roof!
>> Plantsman's garden (whatever that means) blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, apple and pear trees, garage with studio
>> attached (used to be a double garage) 4 FOUR bogs, who the fk needs 4
>> toilets?? 4 man caves too.
>>
Sounds lovely - good luck!
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Look to the future -
As age takes it toll on your vital functions, you may come to regard the proximity of one of the 4 toilets as a saving grace.
As deafness slowly creeps up the A road traffic will no longer interfere with your peaceful existence. You probably will not be letting Grockles into Cornwall anyway!
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>>Sounds lovely - good luck!
Cheers! .. I should have added, the offer has been accepted :)
>>Look to the future -
As age takes it toll on your vital functions, you may come to regard the proximity of one of the 4 toilets as a saving grace.
One the toilets is in one of the sheds?? .. the other one is in the studio.
>>As deafness slowly creeps up the A road traffic will no longer interfere with your peaceful existence. You probably will not be letting Grockles into Cornwall anyway!
I do have tinnitus actually, although I don't suffer from it, it's just there, so a bit of road roar will be no bad thing.
Grockels in Devon, Emmets in Cornwall dear boy ;)
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Being nosy, God, Emma Chissett?
I'll rephrase that as - round here that would be perhaps between 500k and a million. Did you do better or are we in that bracket?
Last edited by: Crankcase on Thu 4 Jun 20 at 11:18
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>> Being nosy, God, Emma Chissett?
>>
>> I'll rephrase that as - round here that would be perhaps between 500k and a
>> million. Did you do better or are we in that bracket?
>>
Sweepstake time...
This is Cornwall, I am guessing not near an expensive tourist area, where it could go for £750k to £1m+!
Old owner so a bit of updating required? Not on mains services for gas and water so out of town.
My guess is £350,000
Last edited by: zippy on Thu 4 Jun 20 at 11:26
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Well done, Dog. I'm sure your stamp duty payment will be much appreciated.
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>>I'm sure your stamp duty payment will be much appreciated.
Not to mention the £5k for the estate agent etc. etc.
Fortunately, the ole woman works for a solicitors, although she's furlonged ;) at the mo.
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>> Not to mention the £5k for the estate >>agent etc. etc.
That ain't cheap. Don't you have any of the fixed price agents in your neck of the woods?
You might have to do your own viewings or pay a little extra and they probably won't advertise in your local rag, but apart from that there's little to chose between them.
Ours charged us a tad over 1k, including
VAT, and did an excellent job.
Unfortunately they don't have an office anywhere near you.
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>>Don't you have any of the fixed price agents in your neck of the woods?
Well, I've usually gorn for the top agents as they, in my experience, earn their corn. Our present agent charged us 1.25% + VAT. I certainly could have got it cheaper with say Purple Bricks etc. but our agent did a good job presenting the olde cottage although they have been lacking during the lockdown, all furlonged no doubt.
Regarding renting somewhere with 2 mad dogs (3 if you include me) ... no chance, and anyway, they all want long-term rental con-tracts.
My buyers are pushing me b'cos their buyers (in rental) are pushing them mucho so, it looks like exchange will take place about mid-June and I'll be looking for a holly day rental ... lodge ... chalet ... tent ... !
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£350k Cc but, if it wasn't on an A road it would be another £50k I'll wager.
It's got a large greenhouse too (for the ole woman!) hence the plantsman's jardin.
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Crikey. Find me another and we'll be down there like a shot.
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You wouldn't like the rain (it raineth every day) or the whinging.
:-D
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As we are on the hunt for a house, found one we liked, it's been on the market for 4 months, they seemed quite keen to move. Put a couple of offers in both turned down fairly quickly. I think they are after near asking price. It's a fair bit above the others in the area have gone for, but there we go. Back to rightmove it is then.
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>> As we are on the hunt for a house, found one we liked, it's been
>> on the market for 4 months, they seemed quite keen to move. Put a couple
>> of offers in both turned down fairly quickly. I think they are after near asking
>> price. It's a fair bit above the others in the area have gone for, but
>> there we go. Back to rightmove it is then.
>>
As an update, I put my house on the market on Tuesday; we’d been thinking of moving before Andy died anyway and I am now somewhat rattling around. Also, nice though the house is, having spent the best part of three months at home, I keep seeing things that need doing. Now, I’ve done them all (or had them done), but maintains an old property is a bit like painting the Forth rail bridge... and I’m not sure I have the energy right now! I don’t need to move, I’m in no rush to move. But I thought I’d see what happens... I’ve already got three viewings booked for Monday, 1 on both Tuesday and Wednesday and 2 on Thursday. All proceed-able buyers as I’ve instructed the agents not to offer viewings to anyone who is dependant on a sale that hasn’t exchanged. Don’t want every Tom, Dick or Harry traipsing round during a pandemic ;)
It feels like there should be a dip in prices, butthere’s definitely an active market round here...or the agent has pitched the price too low!! Though it’s 10%ish above what the house across the road went for last year, so I don’t think so. That’s a 4 bedroom one; we’ve got 5...hence the now rattling around :( Though, it’s nice to have a room for the drum kit ;)
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>>Rattling around.
Good luck!
Hope the right place comes around for you - don't move just for the sake of it, like if the buyer is pressuring you - make sure its the perfect house for you!
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Have you found somewhere to move to ? I’ve been looking to downsize for a few years, but nothing so far. I’m pretty sure I could sell my place in the blink of an eye if it was priced sensibly...quite a few homes very close have sold within weeks, if not days, and I’ve had letters from both private individuals and agents wanting my place.
But if I’ve nowhere to move to I’m not moving into rented.
It’s needs a major de clutter, which is ongoing, some minor internal decoration, a posh new kitchen worktop, and the second bathroom modernising....I’m just awaiting my plumber pal for that. I can see myself here in another 10 years as it ticks all the boxes. Apart from being too large and I hate cleaning...which should be an easy solution.
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>> I can see myself here in another 10 years as it ticks all the boxes.
>> Apart from being too large and I hate cleaning...which should be an easy solution.
No, it was a spur of the moment decision to put it on the market... Partly driven by rattling around, and partly driven by having spent the best part of three months at home, and realising I really only use a third of the space available. Which is fine, except all of the space needs maintaining...and old properties are high maintenance! We had the gardens landscaped 3 years ago, so they are looking good now as well. Another few years here and it’ll need doing again...and I don’t have the energy for that either really...so let’s see. Also, I’m sure prices will dip at some point. It was never going to be our ‘forever’ house, love,y though it is. Though perhaps it might have become...who knows...inertia is strong..
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 6 Jun 20 at 03:40
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In a previous life I too had an Edwardian pile. A true money pit. Bought it around 1985, first marital home and we went in with our eyes open. A huge detached pile of a place but it needed absolutely everything doing. Just about covered our costs when we sold it 15 years later. Didn’t cover the thousands of hours of work...the wrong location, which is why we could afford it in the first place.
Major lesson learnt but quite the experience, and we were young enough to work 7 days a week and burn the midnight oil decorating etc
If we’d known at the time we wouldn’t have touched it with a barge pole and instead bought a nice stone terrace in Ilkley. You live & learn.
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>> Hope the right place comes around for you - don't move just for the sake
>> of it, like if the buyer is pressuring you - make sure its the perfect
>> house for you!
I have nowhere to move to, so I won’t be pressurised! But, if the offers good I’ll take it and move to rented (assuming that’s possible at the moment...!). I think, for the first time in my life, I’d like a new house. I’m not sure I want to tackle a project by myself...too many decisions involved.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 6 Jun 20 at 03:40
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>> I have nowhere to move to, so I won’t be pressurised! But, if the offers
>> good I’ll take it and move to rented (assuming that’s possible at the moment...!). I
>> think, for the first time in my life, I’d like a new house. I’m not
>> sure I want to tackle a project by myself...too many decisions involved.
>>
Please choose a quality independent builder as quality from the large national builders can be variable.
I wish I could have afforded one of Mrs Z's cousin's houses. He builds to exacting standards but the a similar sized new home in the same road as ours cost over £200k more!
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>> I wish I could have afforded one of Mrs Z's cousin's houses. He builds to
>> exacting standards but the a similar sized new home in the same road as ours
>> cost over £200k more!
Yes, I agree. The key things are (a) ia small,site, ideally less than 10 houses and (b) a localish builder. So many have been taken over by the big guys though, but there are some still around. The local guys also seem to build bigger houses than the nationals. Still, let’s not jump the gun!
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 6 Jun 20 at 03:40
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>>too many decisions involved
It is so difficult, and so many things to think about, that it is difficult to stop your head exploding.
My suggestion would be to take a friend's house, or perhaps your own, which is in some way similar to what you might want, and then customise that substantially to be what you want.
Customising/correcting/adding/taking away are all considerably easier than inventing from scratch.
And if your idea is vastly different from the 'norm' then you are probably making a mistake you will grow to hate.
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>> And if your idea is vastly different from the 'norm' then you are probably making
>> a mistake you will grow to hate.
Thanks - you’re right. Like many downsizer or childless person / couple, all I want is lots of downstairs space, but without the 4/5 bedrooms of a large house, some of which are inevitably a bit small... somewhat belatedly some developers have actually cottoned on to that, round here at least, and have configured 4 bed houses to just have three large en-suite rooms upstairs, but the ‘normal’ 4 bed layout and crucially footprint downstairs - large living room, kitchen / diner, utility room and study and hall etc. Don’t know why it’s taken so long really... I just need to find a small development that includes one or that will modify one, in my preferred location...! How hard can that be in a pandemic ;)
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 6 Jun 20 at 03:38
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Near me, some builder has bought a couple of plots. Normally a small cull de sac would go in with small cramped semis.
This one however had done something different. He built a terrace. Not just any terrace, but a superb faithful reproduction of a terrace in that posh late edwardian/early victorian style, complete with tile roof bay windows, inset porched front door, cobble street. It looks the dogs dinner, and strangely not out of context. I'm sure its timber framed, but front materials wise its brick stone and tile looks spot on.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 6 Jun 20 at 09:13
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It is good to see some builders really interested in delivering a quality product...let’s hope the current disruption doesn’t put them off!!
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>> This one however had done something different. He built a terrace. Not just any terrace,
>> but a superb faithful reproduction of a terrace in that posh late edwardian/early victorian style,
>> complete with tile roof bay windows, inset porched front door, cobble street. It looks the
>> dogs dinner, and strangely not out of context. I'm sure its timber framed, but front
>> materials wise its brick stone and tile looks spot on.
Timber framed is a good option. Better IMO than block. An 'authentic' pre-1930's replica would have been solid masonry anyway, without a cavity which would not be able to meet current standards.
We're doing timber frame. The frame substitutes for the inner walls and is the structural part holding the roof up. The fact that the frame is made offsite means it's dimensionally very good, it goes up a bit quicker, a high level of insulation can be incorporated within the frame, and insulation doesn't need to be put in the cavity which remains clear for ventilation. The net result is better thermal performance. The brick cladding (we will also have some block which will be rendered) is exactly the same and tied to the inner leaf in the same way as it would be if both walls were masonry.
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>>This one however had done something different. He built a terrace. Not just any terrace, but a superb faithful reproduction of a terrace in that posh late edwardian/early victorian style, complete with tile roof bay windows, inset porched front door, cobble street.
There's a few built like that round here. Railings at the front, house set back about a metre from the pavement. Usually three storey with communal parking and garage block behind. The only one I've been in had tiny rooms.
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As an update, I put my house on the market on Tuesday;
>>
Looks like you've got something of a hot property. Whereabouts do you live if you don't mind me asking?
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>>
>> Looks like you've got something of a hot property. Whereabouts do you live if you
>> don't mind me asking?
>>
I’m in West Sussex, in a ‘village’ on a mainline direct in to Victoria. The inverted commas are because where I grew up a main line station, shops (multiple, not all food!) pubs, garage and restaurants would be a town! It is a bit small for that I suppose, but it amuses me :)
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And of course the title "Village" adds £xxxx to the price ;)
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>> ;)
In a good mood this morning, Z?
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It was straight after my morning meditation
I'm back to normal now tho.
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>> It was straight after my morning medication
>>
>>
....there, fixed that for you......
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>> As we are on the hunt for a house, found one we liked, it's been
>> on the market for 4 months, they seemed quite keen to move. Put a couple
>> of offers in both turned down fairly quickly. I think they are after near asking
>> price. It's a fair bit above the others in the area have gone for, but
>> there we go. Back to rightmove it is then.
>>
Interestingly they've come back to us and said they've got a house in mind and they can now come down in price so can we do a deal?
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Many years back, we saw a really lovely house and made and offer which the bloke accepted then a week later said he'd been offered more, were we prepared to up our offer.
We wouldn't, and found somewhere else just as nice, then about 3 or 4 weeks later the bloke came back to us and ended up more or less pleading with us to buy, but we were too far down the road pon the newer place. I wasn't sure whether he was just trying it on or not.
Still, if you feel so minded you could tell them there is another on my horizon now which you're just negotiating on, see if you can squeeze them a bit more. If they've been up for sale for 4 months they could be a bit desperate (if there is an agent involved they can sometimes advise, off the record)
Mind you SWMBO has never wanted to haggle if she really likes the place, or the buyers for our place. She'd sooner pay full whack/take a reasonable offer and get a smooth sale with everyone being nice to each other and playing fair.
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> Still, if you feel so minded you could tell them there is another on my
>> horizon now which you're just negotiating on, see if you can squeeze them a bit
>> more. If they've been up for sale for 4 months they could be a bit
>> desperate (if there is an agent involved they can sometimes advise, off the record)
>>
>> Mind you SWMBO has never wanted to haggle if she really likes the place, or
>> the buyers for our place. She'd sooner pay full whack/take a reasonable offer and get
>> a smooth sale with everyone being nice to each other and playing fair.
>>
We're still looking and we told them that. Not got as far as negotiating on anywhere though. I'm not overly inclined to play games as I wouldn't like it and they seemed nice and have been pleasant and straightforward (via the agent) so far.
The agent hinted at a few numbers that they were looking for but still too high for us but we are FTB so can move with a fair bit of flexibility I think that's worth something in itself.
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"Moving house is proven to be the next most stressful thing after your spouse dying or getting divorced"
Not for me though, I've done it too many times
The ole woman has been a bit stressed about it at times - I've told her the worst thing that can happen is that we stay here and that's always been my logic.
Our buyers are the ones suffering mega stress over the move though, mainly from their buyers who have given them an ultimation of the 19th of this month for completion = no chance.
Our buyers made an offer on our property over 3 months ago, but due to the lockdown we haven't been able to view any properties.
I did say at the beginning that we would be prepared to rent somewhere - if we couldn't find somewhere to buy.
I never realised that most landlords only want long-term rental con-tracts, and they certainly don't want anyone with 2 mad dogs!
Holliday rental? .. forget that one due to the lockdown and, have you seen how much they want for just one week in rainy Cornwall during peak season!!
So, being I'm kindness itself, I've suggested Mr Buyer tells their buyer to **** orf and, we'll hold this property (which they have fallen in love with) for them until such times as they can find another buyer which, going by the looks of their lovely 3 bed bungalow, shouldn't take too long.
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I guess your buyers may be concerned that if they lose their buyers and relist it, the market may have gone down and they can't afford your place. And of course they have to actually find some buyers, which can take time.
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True and, their property up in the West Midlands may take a bigger hit than similar here in Cornwall.
It's a really nice bungalow, inside & out with a large conservatory + large garden, double garage so if they are quick it would soon attract offers I should think.
The thing is, their buyer is bullying them - Mr Buyer was on the phone to me this morning and I could hear from his voice he was stressed out, which is why I say call her bluff, tell her we can't possibly meet her 19th 0f June deadline - I only made an offer on a place last week!
I reckon she would comply, being she's forked out the spondulics for the searches, a survey, and she stands to lose a lovely property.
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> I say call her bluff
I agree. If the guy is that desperate then he is less likely to walk away. I'd might say something like "give me an extra £5,000 in cash to cover my expenses of rent and storage for a few months and I'll sell it to you now. Other than that, wait or don't".
But I'd be damned if I was going to be bullied, either way.
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>>Bridging?
At extortionate rates?
>>But I'd be damned if I was going to be bullied, either way.
You and me both, but my buyers don't want to lose this property. I've told them I'll hold the place for them now so we'll see how it plays out.
Costly game this house moving business = £13k + :(
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Verily, I say unto you, our buyers are going to complete on the sale of their place on the 26th of this month - most likely before we've even exchanged contracts on our sale/purchase.
He will be staying with his mother up in the West Midlands, and she will be staying with her mother here in Cornwall.
The problem with that, as their solicitor has advised them, is that if something goes wrong with our purchase, they will be up the sh!t creek without an owse?!
Truly I say to you, it's a funny ole life ????
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Count yourself fortunate that they are committed!! :-)
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Yes but, no but, they have broken the chain their end, the problem arises if we can't complete our purchase.
We have become friends with Mr & Mrs Byer, they were here at the weekend, Mrs Byer is a hairdresser and Mrs God took advantage of that :)
I got some beers in, Wainwright's 'The Golden Beer' (brewed by Marston's) and very nice it was too!
They want me to look after their tortoises :o) in one of my mancaves, presumably they are still hibernating, dunno much about testudines.
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Yeah, they're not going to let you down, not if she's trying to get back nearer her mother... ;-)
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>> Yes but, no but, they have broken the chain their end, the problem arises if
>> we can't complete our purchase.
>
Still struggling to find anywhere?
>> I got some beers in, Wainwright's 'The Golden Beer' (brewed by Marston's) and very nice
>> it was too!
Good choice, got some wolf rock ipa for tonight.
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>>Yeah, they're not going to let you down, not if she's trying to get back nearer her mother... ;-)
Mr Byer has the money, Mrs Byer has the tortoises :)
>>Still struggling to find anywhere?
Had an offer accepted on a place last Tuesday, so a long way to go yet.
>>got some wolf rock ipa for tonight.
Proper job ;-)
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Future property values - Falkirk Bairn
