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I know this has been discussed before but in light of B&Q banning Roundup is it still to be recommended, if used with care. My physical weeding days are over so i wat to resort to chemicals. Must be cat safe. Thanks in anticipation
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What's the active ingredient?
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I've used roundup for years.
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I too have used Glyphosate weedkiller for years.
There have been concerns about it as a carcinogen but at the sort of exposure experienced by professionals (groundsmen etc) not domestic gardens.
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"I know this has been discussed before but in light of B&Q banning Roundup is it still to be recommended, if used with care."
It is safe. I have used it professionally for 45 years, but I don't drink it.
The reason B&Q have dropped glyphosate is because it is a marketing move; it is virtue signalling to appeal to the eco-loon gardening fraternity who have been scared witless by the media ...... the same media that are now scaring the populus about coronavirus.
Last edited by: Haywain on Sun 24 May 20 at 13:12
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> I have used it professionally for 45 years
Yeahbut... the OP asked about cats and I, too, would dearly love to know the answer. Some such killers are safe so long as the foliage sprayed is dry at the time of exposure but cats don't like being kept waiting.
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"Yeahbut... the OP asked about cats"
We have a dog - a Cockerpoo with legs like paint rollers. I informed my wife that I was going to be spraying bits of the garden with glyphosate - so she took the dog for a walk and then kept her in until the spray had dried - in current weather conditions, 2 hrs was fine. I don't think for one moment that the spray would have caused the dog any harm, but I was more concerned that the paint-rollers would pick the glyphosate up and we'd have 2" footprints of dead spots on the lawn.
Cats wouldn't be harmed either ...... but then again, cats are expendable anyway ;-)
If, as CG suggests, you are in a situation where you can use a push-pull hoe then fine - that's what I use on the veggie patch - and it's good exercise too. My garden also, is thriving with butterflies, insects, and rather too many wretched birds - especially wood pigeons and magpies. I do, however, welcome the bluetits in the nest boxes and the green woodpecker who aerates the lawn for me as he digs out chafer grubs.
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>> "Yeahbut... the OP asked about cats"
>> so she took the dog for a walk and then kept her in until the
>> spray had dried - in current weather conditions, 2 hrs was fine.
We didn't used to wait 2 hours, more like an 1 hour. But we kept them in briefly just to be sure.
>> Cats wouldn't be harmed either ...... but then again, cats are expendable anyway ;-)
It certainly never harmed our cats. We didn't do it when the cats were in the garden, we used to close the doors. But again, only for an hour.
>> If, as CG suggests, you are in a situation where you can use a push-pull
>> hoe then fine - that's what I use on the veggie patch - and it's
>> good exercise too.
Exactly, Using it doesn't mean using it everywhere. I used to use it on the almost impossible bits, cracks in concrete, under the decking or on the woodchips by the childrens' play area for example. In the garden itself I used a long hoe, which is quick and easy enough.
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"as he digs out chafer grubs."
Been a really bad year for them in my garden. Part of the lawn under the oak tree is badly infested. Actually magpies really love them and are happy pecking away at the lawn but since the grass roots have been eaten by the grubs they leave large bare patches.
I went to repot some mint which was not doing well. When I picked it up it had no roots at all. the pot was full of the grubs.
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As a fully accredited eco-loon gardener I would say that it is perfectly possible to garden without any chemicals at all. I will admit that I did use to use glyphosate on my gravel paths but gave it up completely a few years back. I just use a hoe now. I can assure you that my garden is thriving. Yes I get a few weeds but I also get a wide variety of butterflies insects and birds. I don’t know know whether or not glyphosate is dangerous but why use it if you don’t need to?
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I miss sodium chlorate.
Helped me make fireworks as a kid.
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>I miss sodium chlorate.
You must have led the same misspent youth as myself.
You could buy Sodium Chlorate from any gardening outlet. Pharmacies sold saltpetre (Potassium Nitrate) and Flowers of Sulphur. My local bike shop sold Calcium Carbide for use in Acetylene lamps. The lab supplies company in Sheffield (Prestons) would sell you just about everything you would find in a Uni science lab - no licence required, no questions asked.
When I was about 14 or 15yo I went to our local library and filled in their book request form specifying 'any book with Firework or Explosive' as the subject matter. About a week later the request form dropped through our letter box saying that my books had arrived. That afternoon on my way home from school I called at the library and was presented with a stack of at least half a dozen text books.
I suspect that if I tried the same today I would be greeted by half a dozen plod with HKMP5s.
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>>My local bike shop sold Calcium Carbide for use in Acetylene lamps
I think that was before my time, but my old man told me in his youth they used to throw handfuls of carbide down a drain cover then 15 minutes later toss a match in and watch big flames jet out of all the drains along the street.
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Home made fireworks - I hesitate to use the B word - brings back memories. As a 14yr old I became very aware of the H&S risks after a a local 14 yr old lost his sight as a result of grinding (in a pestle and mortar) the sodium chlorate with other constituents. Most of my devices were triggered electrically - using old glass valves (with top cap removed) filled with an incendiary mix.
Other more advanced chemistry students (well a year older!) were using a mix of Iodine+ Nitric Acid? that was triggered, when dry, by pressure. Scattered on the floor at school on the steps to the stage for morning assembly created a bit of a stir.
One of the science teachers even conducted an experiment to measure the speed of sound with a flash bang device. (It was across a valley with line of sight of about 1.5km in an urban enviroment). The Bang was a bit bigger than the flash and resulted in a police visit.
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>Other more advanced chemistry students (well a year older!) were using a mix of Iodine+ Nitric Acid?
Iodine and an aqueous solution of Ammonia. Mix 'em together, stir and a black sediment forms. Filter and wash with deionised water. It's called Nitrogen Triiodide and is extremely unstable. A fly landing on it will set it off.
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>>a fully accredited eco-loon gardener
My gardener in England is one of those.
To be honest I rather admire him. He's a peaceful, calm, older chap who makes and has made a surprising amount from simply being a gardener over the years and who entirely marches to the beat of his own drum - albeit a part time drum these days.
Any garden he looks after is superb and as far as I know he uses no chemicals for anything.
We invite him to Chile every January for a winter/summer holiday. It is hilarious to watch him with Chilean gardeners who would use napalm if they could buy it. There's lots of spluttering.
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I bought a weed burner last year. Absolutely useless, it takes ages to burn one weed down and if you have a lot you're there all evening and bored stiff. And they grow back in no time.
Great for igniting the incinerator though.
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Aye R O'R
Too much water content in most weeds, and doesn't get to the roots.
Maybe the Chileans are onto something with their search for napalm.
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"Great for igniting the incinerator though."
........and great fun when you use one to light your cigarette.
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I use salt water on most of my weeds, but revert to glyphosate once a year for the paths, patio and drive.
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Weedol 1 (used to be Verdone) for the lawn; Weedol 2 for paths, drives etc. And, while we're on the subject, Wet & Forget for anything, caravans, garden seats, window sills etc. that's likely to grow green algae.
Mention of Sodium Chlorate brings back memories of when a chum and I went into wholesale production of about a dozen Sodium Chlorate and sugar devices in milk cartons and used them to slide a portion of riverbank into Tang Beck near Hamspthwaite.
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I have used Roundup/glyphosate in its various forms since 1974 when it was in pre-market trials. An amazing weedkiller and, like so many products, safe if used within the recommendations and in fact pretty safe anyway but avoid watercourses. There is much discussion about its supposed carcinogenic effects, I have seen plenty of heat but not so much light on this topic. So many products are potentially toxic particularly if the instructions are followed. Just under most kitchen sinks is domestic bleach, sink cleaners etc that are awful things, hence child proof caps. Who would be daft enough to inject bleach for example?
Glyphosate is a translocated herbicide which means it doesn't kill on contact but is taken up by the plant and moved around within it. Due to the way it works it can take a while for its effects to show, but it is (eventually) very effective. It is an ideal time to apply it at the moment. Warm temperature and good growing conditions will give optimum uptake and effects will be seen sometimes within a day or two. A slight yellowing of the plant and a drooping of the leaves etc being the first signs. It will kill anything green though so use with care, things like Ivy and Bindweed tend to be more difficult to kill with one application. It is very unlikely to harm pets but if at all concerned keep them inside until the application has dried. Take care with horses though as they can develop a depraved appetite for certain weeds as they die back, Ragwort being particularly nasty for them.
I have a good stock of it - just in case....
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i remember when Paraquat was banned for home use. Lots of people complained then and said they couldn't garden without the stuff even though there were numerous cases of poisoning especially children. i seem to remember there is no antidote and a slow death is inevitable
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You are quite right, paraquat (and diqaut) are indeed a gateway to a slow death. A very unpleasant way to commit suicide, or die by accident. Sadly misuse and abuse of such products means they get a very bad name, and in this case banned. However there are no long term environmental effects as the active ingredient was locked up on contact with soil. Hence if any was ingested by a person then they were fed clay products in an attempt, usually a vain one, to soak up the active ingredient and prevent a lethal dose.
Some years ago it was a widespread practice to set baits for predating species - game birds, foxes etc - using organophosphate (OP) products injected or applied in various ways to the bait. OPs are nerve agents and can be very toxic. There were regular occurrences of gamekeepers etc turning up at A&E having suffered prick injuries attempting to inject eggs with OP products.
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Funnily enough I was researching how to safely kill weeds on a patio a few days ago. We also have a cat and I was loathe to use chemicals. One of the tips was simple - pour boiling water on the weeds. And it works a treat.
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"One of the tips was simple - pour boiling water on the weeds. And it works a treat."
Yep good idea - but a bit tedious when you have several hectares to treat ;-)
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>> "One of the tips was simple - pour boiling water on the weeds. And it
>> works a treat."
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>> Yep good idea - but a bit tedious when you have several hectares to treat
>> ;-)
>>
True - luckily my requirements were limited to a small, conveniently situated patio!
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"True - luckily my requirements were limited to a small, conveniently situated patio!"
...... and you have the satisfaction of clobbering a few ants as well!
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Here's my recipe for weed killer - works very, very well! :
In a knapsack sprayer, use 5lts Water, 5 lts white vinegar (not the 5% diluted stuff, but the 30% stuff if you can source it) 1 cup of Lemon dish washing liquid (lemon works best!) and 3 cups salt (not the "low"- type brands!) good shake, and spray in a dry morning as soon as dew is off, hotter the day later the better!
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Almost identical to the recipe I use, although I don't put nearly so much washing-up liquid in. A squirt will do, it's only to make the liquid cling to the leaves better.
I haven't bought any 'proper' weedkiller for years. Bindweed and Japanese knotweed need something more toxic in my experience though.
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Weedkiller Recommendations - Bromptonaut
