Non-motoring > Coronavirus - Volume 19   [Read only]
Thread Author: R.P.	Replies: 168

New Sun 24 May 20 19:25   Coronavirus - Volume 19 - R.P.

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 20 ***** ============================================================== Ongoing debate. 607910 Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 30 May 20 at 20:09

New Sat 23 May 20 21:14   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

New Sat 23 May 20 21:58   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Lygonos

Piers "Big M, small organ" has torn Cummings a new A on Twitter. I suspect Cumming's rain of tyranny is about to end.

New Sat 23 May 20 22:09   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Rudedog

Off with his head!!

New Sat 23 May 20 22:10   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

Genuinely, does *anybody* care what Morgan thinks?

New Sat 23 May 20 22:29   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Lygonos

Good lord, no, but if anyone knows about lying weasels it's him...

New Sat 23 May 20 22:37   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

>> Good lord, no, but if anyone knows about lying weasels it's him... >> >> >> His resignation from the daily mirror springs to mind.

New Sun 24 May 20 09:12   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Lygonos

His sister-in-law apparently lives half a mile away. He and his wife HAD the infection. His child may well alao therefore had or be about to have the infection. They drove 250+ miles to uninfected older relatives. I don't believe Mark would have done that. At least not without discussion and advice from family and colleagues. And as he says, I would expect him not to weasel out of any responsibility. I agree the press and politicians are ghastly with these issues but I find the cabinet ministers defending his actions despicable and indicative of just how powerful Cummings' role must be in no.10. The truth of events may not be "as reported" of course. Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 24 May 20 at 09:13

New Sun 24 May 20 12:18   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

Looks like government back bench MPs are queuing up to tell him to resign. Including some from the 1922 committee.

New Sun 24 May 20 12:32   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> Looks like government back bench MPs are queuing up to tell him to resign. Including >> some from the 1922 committee. He's not popular with the back benches.

New Sun 24 May 20 12:45   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Robin O'Reliant

Rightly or wrongly, his position is untenable now and it is only a matter of time before he is handed the gun and the bottle of whisky. The government can't afford the negative daily headlines.

New Sun 24 May 20 13:14   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Duncan

Who is he? What does he do? Is it simply that he knows where the bodies are buried?

New Sun 24 May 20 13:18   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Crankcase

All summed up by the two words "Caeser's wife".

New Sun 24 May 20 13:32   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - martin aston

I think he will go irrespective of the full facts. He will probably be off with a statement admitting nothing but along the lines of not wanting to distract from the government’s programme, nor wanting to drag his family further through this. He can then come back for Brexit negotiations in a few weeks.

New Sun 24 May 20 17:18   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

PM leading the daily press conference says Cummings acted 'responsibly, legally and with integrity'. I can only assume he is in a parallel universe......

New Sun 24 May 20 17:54   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>> PM leading the daily press conference says Cummings acted... >'responsibly Impossible for us to know really. You'd need to know his family situation, relationships and health status to be sure. But he's not a plank, so I'd probably fall on the side that he thought it was necessary. I really couldn't say whether or not he was correct, but I do think he was foolish in the way he handled it. There must have been a better way to achieve the same. >, legally I'm pretty sure he acted legally. There was no law banning what he did, and in fact the advice says that he was permitted to do it, albeit that it relies on a judgement call. > and with integrity'. Not sure about this. I could fall either way. Probably towards the 'not' given his arrogant attitude since. however, not seeing where this becomes a national issue. >> I can only assume he is in a parallel universe...... Given your history of bias depending on political allegiance, I don't think that comment is to be taken seriously. This is coming from the baying of the media and the other politicians and the love of a scandal and a scapegoat. Regrettably it will probably make Cummings position untenable and that is wrong. Not because I care about Cummings, because I most certainly do not - I think he's awful, but because someone will be hounded from their job just because the hyenas and the lemmings think there's some advantage or fun in doing so. Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 24 May 20 at 17:55

New Sun 24 May 20 17:57   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

"I can only assume he is in a parallel universe......" Sure is - the telly is still on, talking to itself in the living-room - I must go back and turn it off. The Beeb is lining people up to have a go at Cummings. I should admit, I only know what I read in the papers - I don't know the bloke personally.

New Sun 24 May 20 18:00   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>>The Beeb is lining people up to have a go at Cummings. Standard behaviour for a mob.

New Sun 24 May 20 18:07   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - CGNorwich

Seems to me he made an error of judgement. his motive were no doubt sincere and his concern, the welfare of his child was the motivating factor for the journey. In a grown up world hew would say exactly that, we would understand but not approve his actions and life would move on. Unfortunately we don't live in a grown up world.       1

New Sun 24 May 20 18:11   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>>Unfortunately we don't live in a grown up world. No, we don't. Which is a terrible shame.

New Sun 24 May 20 18:31   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>> but I find the cabinet ministers defending his actions despicable I find people defending him just because of political alignment as obnoxious as people defending him for the same reason.

New Sun 24 May 20 19:34   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Lygonos

>> I find people [attacking] him just because of political alignment as obnoxious as people defending him for the same reason. I have no political alignment for or against this government, and certainly not for HM opposition. He has dug himself a hole and taken his 'masters' down with him.

New Sun 24 May 20 19:49   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>> >> I find people [attacking] him just because of political alignment as obnoxious as people >> defending him for the same reason. >> >> I have no political alignment for or against this government, and certainly not for HM >> opposition. >> >> He has dug himself a hole and taken his 'masters' down with him. Sorry, I wasn't clear and so you saw a rock I didn't throw. There are many, you included, who genuinely think he was wrong. There are also many, not you, who are blind to the actual rights or wrongs and are only concerned with political allegiance in order to understand their position on the matter. And then there's the media who just love someone to vilify and utterly don't care who it is or how justified it is. If every politician or member of the media who has breached the regulations in any way immediately resigned from their position, then we would be able to take the rest on face value. I'm not holding my breath. I recently breached the Chilean regulations in order to take assistance* to a vulnerable person. It was about a 400 kilometre round trip. If I got busted [I didn't, though a Caribinero Mayor did stop me and ask what I was doing and then walked away] I would have admitted what I did, admitted it was outside the rules/guidelines and then taken any reasonable sanction. But I damn well wouldn't have apologised for it. * A food parcel and a cylinder of gas.

New Sun 24 May 20 23:16   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Terry

Lots of people have a reason to dislike Cummings. Even in the Tory party he is seen by many as a barrier - controlling cabinet access and policy through his relationship with Boris. He comes across as arrogant, but is unquestionably effective in getting results. I can understand why Boris values his input. Nine years of Cameron and May, both of whom had a very conventional leadership style, achieved very little. He is something of a game changer with radical ideas. I don't believe he drove to Northumberland just to enjoy the drive. I suspect that concern for compliance with rules was completely subordinated to his personal needs (more arrogance?). But by being the man we (nearly) all love to hate he is an easy target - cue opposition MPs wanting to put the boot in. It also deflects attention away from the real issues in the crisis. The media do themselves no credit at all. At the No 10 briefing this afternoon there was almost 100% Cummings questions - completely pointless after the first two as it was abundantly clear they were going to get the same answer from Boris every time. Completely unimaginative - the same lead story on TV and papers. Sadly we get the politicians that media pressures create, and the media are, frankly, woeful.

New Mon 25 May 20 01:15   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

So if I've understood this correctly Johnson can't sack Cummings because Cummings' wife, Spectator Editor will tell all about drunk Johnson stalking her and waving his willy at her before she married Cummings. Meanwhile, Harry Cole, the guy who does the dodgy desperate Starmer smears for the Daily Mail to support Johnson, is Carrie Symonds' ex. We are not living in 1984, or the Handmaids Tale or Gaslight. We are living in a fifth form end of year disco. (Copied from t'internet)

New Mon 25 May 20 07:29   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Netsur

This Cummings situation is different from the Scottish Chief Medical officer visiting her second home or Prof Ferguson shagging his girlfriend. This is about parents dealing with a family issue. .********* I am not overly impressed by the government's handling of the current wishy washy lockdown post Boris's Sunday evening talk three weeks ago and the quarantine idea is classic shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, but arguing about personalities is pointless. Better we all (including the unions) listen to the latest medical information from around the world and start opening schools and get the economy open.

New Mon 25 May 20 07:34   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Netsur

******** Means In my family we have two parents who are only children, two grandparents who are only children, therefore no first cousins for my children and no nieces or nephews for our surviving parents. We are a tiny family with no assistance from any family members. So if would have done what Cummings did. It was legal and reasonable under his family circumstances. Doesn't mean i like the government's current stance which is illogical, contradictory and confusing.

New Mon 25 May 20 08:21   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

I can't say that I found his actions to be reasonable. We were in a very similar situation to his at nearly the same time. The idea of driving across country is honestly some that never entered my head. Granted I've not poured over all the information and sorted out the opinion/outrage from the details of what actually happened and when, nevertheless I don't think it was the smart thing for him to do.

New Mon 25 May 20 13:06   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

Cummings is making a statement and taking questions later today. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52798632

New Mon 25 May 20 13:38   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

>> Cummings is making a statement and taking questions later today. >> >> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52798632 >> That is a surprise he's normally in the background, not someone who's normally fronting press conferences?

New Mon 25 May 20 16:22   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - tyrednemotional

It's also a surprise since it might be construed as being in contravention of the Code of Practice for Special Advisers: tinyurl.com/classicdom ....particularly the section on "Contacts with the media" in which the following instructions are given: 14. Special advisers must not take public part in political controversy, through any form of statement whether in speeches or letters to the press, or in books, social media, articles or leaflets. They must observe discretion and express comment with moderation, avoiding personal attacks, and would not normally speak in public for their Minister or the Department. ...though, of course, he doesn't seem too worried by the rules, and I'm sure the Cabinet can find some alternative interpretation involving "instinct". ;-)

New Mon 25 May 20 13:53   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Terry

Politics is a thoroughly unpleasant game characterised by: - look for weakness and exploit it - kick a person when they are down - better still, get your retaliation in first - smile at your colleagues in public, diss them in private - etc etc All in the name of political ambition. The media enjoy the feeding frenzy as much as the politicos. Cummings is a master of the political craft - highly effective and successful. He must know that if the clamour cannot be suppressed fairly quickly he is likely to be toast (at least until he is quietly brought back into the fray). I personally don't have a problem with what he did - a concern for the well being of nearest and dearest trumps the rules every time!!

New Mon 25 May 20 15:58   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Manatee

>> Cummings is a master of the political craft - highly effective and successful. He must >> know that if the clamour cannot be suppressed fairly quickly he is likely to be >> toast (at least until he is quietly brought back into the fray). He'll either clear off with his bat and ball or make a strategic retreat, positioned as doing the right thing for the country, so he can come back and help cock up Brexit. I don't think brazening it out would work. But I could be completely wrong. Just time to get the kettle on before the press conference.

New Mon 25 May 20 16:32   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> >> >> Cummings is a master of the political craft - highly effective and successful. Is he? check out his history, past performance means he is none of those things.

New Mon 25 May 20 13:12   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - smokie

I read a great conspiracy theory today which will probably come to nothing but it surprised me the effort some people go to to get a story. Apparently Glaxo Smith Klein have labs near Barnard Castle, where he was supposedly walking, and two days after his walk GSK announced they had signed a joint venture of some kind with a French pharma co (Sanef?) So the thinking went that he was an enabler for the agreement and that the meeting was held at the lab because it was less likely to become known about than if it had been at GSKs London HQ. Anyway - I see this morning that 1) Durham's finest have said they will investigate further and 2) he is about to make a statement and take questions       1

New Mon 25 May 20 15:24   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bobby

Yip the organ grinder put the monkey up to do the questions yesterday but as was expected, he failed miserably. So the organ grinder needs to face the press today.

New Mon 25 May 20 16:06   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Manatee

I don't buy the idea that Cummings controls Johnson, although he clearly has influence. It's a a media construction. Cummings might actually have deflected some of Johnson's bonkers ideas. Trump could probably use him. Johnson is accountable either way. Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 25 May 20 at 16:09

New Mon 25 May 20 16:59   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - CGNorwich

Just listened to Dominic Cummings account. Seems reasonable to me. Should have made the statement up front though. Now time to move on surely.

New Mon 25 May 20 17:07   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

"Just listened to Dominic Cummings account. Seems reasonable to me. Should have made the statement up front though. Now time to move on surely." My thoughts exactly; it's embarrassing to see the frothing Bremainial press going round in ever decreasing circles. Gawd, how I loathe the press!

New Mon 25 May 20 17:22   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - CGNorwich

I don’t really agree. The press are doing their job. They can seem crass at times but would you prefer a list of questions vetted by the government?

New Mon 25 May 20 17:20   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - tyrednemotional

...I find it neither reasonable nor believable. Time has been taken to concoct something that fits the timeline, but makes no sense at all. He drove to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight....!! FFS. (Next time I have a few pints I'll have a 30 mile drive to see if I'm drunk). The trip to Barnard Castle is much more easily explained by the fact that it happened on his wife's birthday. I don't particularly like the media frenzy, but this has been car-crash time for Dom and Boris.

New Mon 25 May 20 17:27   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - CGNorwich

I rather think you would not believe anything the man said. I’m not a fan of Johnson or his Government but Cummings’s story does have the ring of truth.       1

New Mon 25 May 20 17:31   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

I’m in the same camp as T&E on this. The trip to Barnard Castle was a jolly at a time when the govt were beseeching people to stay at home. Driving to test eyes! If he was in doubt he should not have driven! He may not have broken the law or regulations but has driven roughshod through the spirit of them! If he were on my team at work and crossed the spirit of the rules then I would be talking to HR with a view to swift removal and that is a requirement in my industry some poor behaviour not forbidden by law can exclude you from certain jobs. Last edited by: zippy on Mon 25 May 20 at 17:32

New Mon 25 May 20 17:59   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> Driving to test eyes! If he was in doubt he should not have driven! My optician is 8 miles away, I certainly don't walk there. I use the glasses I have, you know, the ones I have been driving with for the previous two years? I dont say, "Oooo I need my eyes looked at so I cant drive there" I think bojo is a dick, and cummins has no place anywhere where he can have any influence, but I dont think he has committed a sacking offence.

New Mon 25 May 20 18:17   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - smokie

I don't believe all he said and I think there were some inconsistencies but that was inevitable. He showed some major errors of judgement IMO. At least he dressed up (by his standards) for the occasion and didn't come across quite as arrogantly as previously. I suppose hes never going to apologise or admit he got it wrong, though he came close at one point. It's increased my aversion to Boris ( - I'm usually Tory btw) and those around him but it's time to move on and address the more important stuff which is going on. I expect that won't be the way it goes though.

New Mon 25 May 20 17:55   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>> Yip the organ grinder put the monkey up to do the questions yesterday but as >> was expected, he failed miserably. >> So the organ grinder needs to face the press today. You cannot stop banging that drum, can you. It is an utterly ridiculous idea which you would dismiss as such did you not so desperately want it to be true.

New Mon 25 May 20 18:44   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Terry

Had anyone else done what Cummings did, the response would be - understable, may have broken the odd rule, used some common sense, so what. The public response has been stirred by a media intent on finding problems where none really exist. The media can't accept that they simply made the wrong call, and behaved appallingly. Acceptance or condemnation of his actions seem to depend on political views held, and a personal like/dislike emotion. Time to move on and worry about something actually worth worrying about!

New Mon 25 May 20 19:21   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>>Time to move on and worry about something actually worth worrying about! I thought that the media in general and the BBC in particular behaved pretty responsibly and provided quality news in the early days of the crisis. However, as people got used to it and to a degree less fascinated by it then they all easily slipped back into their old behaviour. I don't know who is more awful, the media or the punters who give them money in reward for their behaviour.

New Mon 25 May 20 19:48   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

Anyone in Bojos or Cummins place should be questioned on how past actions will effect future actions, direction. If they convince you they have learned and will change/adjust then fine If they dont, then fine fine crucify them. Tho actually those in power should be questioned and grilled on how we move the country forward from here, safely and successfully, maybe including some of the positives of this crisis. Getting obsessed in a press induced feeding frenzy is actually doing nothing for our future.       1

New Mon 25 May 20 19:30   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bobby

What makes it ridiculous? Have you looked at any of the background to Boris / Cummings/ Gove? The interlinked families, media and business? You looked at the background of Boris bring sacked for lying? The reports from various sources including the foreign office that he couldn’t be trusted? The various witnesses to him over the years, his lack of attention to detail, that he gets bored easily and does not believe that normal rules apply to him. Then look at his performance yesterday without a script. And then the fact that Cummings himself was given his own press conference. And then tell me that Boris is the one that’s pulling the strings. Yes I am absolutely anti Tory and don’t try to hide it but by God, anyone looking in on this Trump show that we have and think it’s all fine then lives their life to different principals to me. And also may be being biased in their own way.

New Mon 25 May 20 19:49   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>> I am absolutely anti Tory No! Say it ain't so! Well, swipe me down but at least you kept it hidden and don't let it sway your thinking into the ridiculous. >>anyone looking in on this Trump show that we have and think it’s all fine then lives their life to different principals to me. Ah, the old trick of attributing a sentiment to someone and then criticising them for it. i have not said, nor do I think, that all is fine. I think your obsession with your pet puppet theory is ridiculous. Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 25 May 20 at 19:50

New Mon 25 May 20 20:50   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

Having had time to watch his statement in full, I'm more understanding of what he did and why. Probably more of a judgement thing rather than out and out wrong and I'm not sure I would have done all he did. Not doubt they'll be more effort spent picking over every detail of that statement. Time to move on I think.

New Mon 25 May 20 22:27   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - henry k

SWMBO - Fancy a nice ride in the countryside and a walk about ? I know its not your birthday but I feel sure I could find a reason. If the car breaks down who will come and rescue us ? ( We are starting week 11 of isolation and have not been off site during these weeks) My thanks go to all who are helping us, neighbours, friends, son, daughter, council and others. www.heraldscotland.com/news/18474097.cummings-went-beauty-spot-wifes-birthday-test-eyes/

New Mon 25 May 20 22:48   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - legacylad

Why ? Can’t you just get in your car and go for a nice drive somewhere now? Take a picnic, park somewhere out of the way and avoid all contact with other folks. Friends of mine meet up on sunny evenings on the high road over to Malham facing west. Social distancing and all that. Take some nibbles. Watch the sun set. Nice finish to a lovely warm Spring day. Last edited by: legacylad on Mon 25 May 20 at 22:51

New Mon 25 May 20 23:41   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - henry k

>> Why ? Can’t you just get in your car and go for a nice drive somewhere now? For a variety of reasons it is not simple. it is rather crowded in our area and we are both at risk re age and SWMBO for other reasons. Son and DIL delivered/collected stuff this afternoon so we had a conversation with them via the Fench doors. My comment re trip to Barnard Castle applied on 12 Apr. I did like the comment this evening from Jenny Kleeman re Dominic Cummings This is an explanation reverse-engineered to fit images and accounts he knows are in the public domain. Nothing more. Under Section 96 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, it is an offence to drive with uncorrected defective eyesight. If you drive a motor vehicle on a road, when your eyesight is uncorrected such that you cannot comply with the eyesight requirements in the act, you will have committed an offence.

New Tue 26 May 20 08:04   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> Under Section 96 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, it is an offence to drive >> with uncorrected defective eyesight. If you drive a motor vehicle on a road, when your >> eyesight is uncorrected such that you cannot comply with the eyesight requirements in the act, >> you will have committed an offence. But you dont know you have uncorrected eyesight until you have a test. You can also still have eyesight good enough for driving yet still need correction. There are many types of sight conditions that still make you legal to drive. As I said above thats a fatuous line to take with respect to cummins excuse.

New Tue 26 May 20 11:03   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Ambo

Cummings didn't need to drive 60 miles to test his eyesight. He could have used the standard number plate test which, if I recall, is to read a recent plate clearly in clear conditions and at 20.50 metres distance.       1

New Tue 26 May 20 13:05   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> Cummings didn't need to drive 60 miles to test his eyesight. He could have used >> the standard number plate test which, if I recall, is to read a recent plate >> clearly in clear conditions and at 20.50 metres distance. He might have severe myopia, which means he couldn't read the guidance. BTW do you know at a glance where 20.5 metres is?

New Tue 26 May 20 14:03   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - tyrednemotional

>>BTW do you know at a glance where 20.5 metres is? >> ...about 1/2000 of a drive to Barnard Castle.... ;-)

New Tue 26 May 20 15:25   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Ambo

>> BTW do you know at a glance where 20.5 metres is? 20.50m, 67’, 5 car lengths, 37 of my (arthritis-limited) paces.

New Tue 26 May 20 11:28   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Manatee

The story is obviously more than a bit confected but probably essentially true. Under the clumsy telling I can even understand the 'test trip' even though the outing to the river coincided with his wife's birthday. When I've been ill in bed and begin to feel better, I never really know whether I am better or not until I try and do something. Throwing in the eyesight bit which I suspect was off-script was painting the lily and went a bit wrong. I did wonder if his wife couldn't drive. Maybe she was still poorly and I went off to make a cup of tea during that bit. But I'm guessing. He didn't have an accident, he didn't call out the emergency services and fatally infect them, and it's probably time to drop hands on the whole thing and leave the Tories looking even more incompetent. Whether it's within the rules or not, they don't cater for every eventually and I imagine very few people have not been sensibly creative in a small way. I have to go up to my site this morning and "erect" a planning notice at my plot. I don't see that on the list either. He's probably suffered enough, but it would be nice if Johnson could be subjected to a bit more opprobrium.

New Tue 26 May 20 11:52   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - devonite

I read a story on a forum yesterday about a small family fined for beaching lock-down rules.# Apparently a Police patrol spotted a car parked by the roadside next to a fairly dense wood, on creeping into said wood the officers came across a small family in a sunny clearing enjoying a picnic! The officers sat down with them and shared in said picnic, whilst explaining the Covid rules. When the food was finished the officers promptly booked the family with a fine, and sent them packing! - I can only think that they had dough-nuts with them!!!

New Tue 26 May 20 12:54   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - legacylad

If that’s true then it’s disgusting. Minding their own business, enjoying a family picnic. The polar opposite of a friend whose house overlooks a park on the outskirts of Bradford. For the past several weeks there has been a large group of teenagers playing cricket then sitting down and having a communal picnic. The police attended and nothing happened. Even when photos by other local residents were plastered all over social media showing their parents arriving in cars to collect them when it got dark. My 92yo mum finally got out under her own steam today. 1/4 mile walk to the Tuesday market, queued in the PO for her pension, went to her bank ( which opens 2 days a week these days), went to the Hen Hut for eggs and the cheese stall. Happiest I’ve heard her for months. She completed a DNR form years ago and was sick of being cooped up. A chance you take she tells me but it’s improved her mental well-being and who am I to argue. She’s now looking forward to Spain in September....free villa holiday for my friends who help entertain her and push her wheelchair!

New Tue 26 May 20 13:03   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> The officers sat down with them and shared in said picnic, whilst explaining the Covid >> rules. >> When the food was finished the officers promptly booked the family with a fine, If I was the kind & charitable type, I would say I think its probably exaggerated. As I am not, I'm going to say I have read some old pony you have peddled on here, but that one exceeds your usual anti police excrement by a considerable margin.       1

New Wed 27 May 20 15:45   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> You cannot stop banging that drum, can you. >> >> It is an utterly ridiculous idea which you would dismiss as such did you not >> so desperately want it to be true. The concept that ideas that differ from your own and that of the (mostly) conservative - nb small c - consensus here can be dismissed as biased or ridiculous is becoming tiresome. FWIW I don't subscribe to the Organ Grinder/Monkey model for Johnson and Cummings but the amount of influence Cummings wields is out of all proportion to what it should be. Mandelson was little better but he was, at least at the outset, an elected politician. His capacity to be raised from the political dead after his various scandals was a scandal all of its own. Alistair Campbell was at least entertaining.

New Wed 27 May 20 17:17   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>> The concept that ideas that differ from your own and that of the (mostly) conservative >> - nb small c - consensus here can be dismissed as biased or ridiculous is >> becoming tiresome. I dismiss it as ridiculous because it is, not simply because I disagree with it. I am not driven by the views of the majority. Ever. >> The amount of influence Cummings wields is out of all proportion to what it should be The issue with that though, is that we don't know how much is reality and how much is media and political story. I guess it must be more than none or he'd be dropped by now, but how much I am unsure. I dismiss the media opinion. I dismiss the opposition opinion. The opinion of the Conservative MPs is, though, relevant. It's difficult to work out how much is simply resentment and how much is genuine and a cause for concern. Though it's easy enough to get rid of him, vote Johnson out.

New Tue 26 May 20 07:12   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Dog

Teenage girl among two dead after Cornwall sea rescues. RNLI suspended lifeguard patrols on UK beaches in March due to the coronavirus pandemic. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-52797547

New Tue 26 May 20 08:30   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Netsur

>> Teenage girl among two dead after Cornwall sea rescues. >> >> RNLI suspended lifeguard patrols on UK beaches in March due to the coronavirus pandemic. A far sadder and more important piece of news than the Cummings affair. If the Telegraph had done anything than support him this morning, I would have dropped my subscription. Their coverage over the weekend was boiling my blood. Have these journos no family, or are they all heartless automatons? I would love to reveal their peccadillos and get them sacked. The only good one is Bryony Gordon for being painfully honest. Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 26 May 20 at 11:58

New Tue 26 May 20 13:30   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Terry

The behaviour by journalists has been utterly disgusting. It would be interesting to understand whether the police will be taking action over the way they door-stepped Cummings - there is clear visual and audio evidence of the way in which they totally ignored government guidance on social distancing. This put all at real risk of infection and onwards transmission in the scrum. Cummings Durham escapade, by contrast, seems to have put no one at risk. Journalism used to be a respected profession. It has sunk to an unimaginative, scandal seeking, herd mentality, in pursuit of a trivial story at best. The expression "gutter press" used to apply to the worst journalistic and media excesses - it now needs to be applied almost without exception to both TV and Press. This is borne out by their reporting of deaths in care homes. I do not seek to trivialise this but they are culpable of hugely skewed and unbalanced reporting - evidenced by this research by: www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19-long-term-care-facilities-surveillance-guidance.pdf It shows that the UK has far lower care home deaths as a % of the total than Belgium, France, Germany, Spain. No figures available in the report for Italy. I would personally treat the figures with some degree of caution - they are a week or so out of date, and different countries have different standards of reporting. A search on PPE similarly shows the UK were not unique in their concerns for inadequate contingency stocks and shortages. In summary - question the motives and independantly try and validate anything reported in the press and media. They have grown used to simply distorting the truth!!

New Tue 26 May 20 13:55   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Manatee

>.In summary - question the motives and independantly try and validate anything reported in the press and media. The primary reason that tribal Labour and Conservative supporters both think the BBC is biased against them is that they all shoot at the messenger. In this case Cummings is an arrogant git who thinks he can do what he likes, and Johnson is a dissembling fantasist consumed by ambition who needs competent people around him to contain his wildest ideas and and oratorial flourishes. Best just to own that and accept it.

New Tue 26 May 20 13:59   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> In this case Cummings is an arrogant git who thinks he can do what he >> likes, and Johnson is a dissembling fantasist consumed by ambition who needs competent people around >> him to contain his wildest ideas and and oratorial flourishes. Best just to own that >> and accept it. True, but attack both or either with trivial crap and they become bullet proof and immune. Hit them with something major and meaningful, and it hurts and shows them up. This current thing?, its just noise.

New Tue 26 May 20 14:08   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Lygonos

And the lying turd edited a year-old blog to show he was a prophet of pandemics. Pity he forgot the waybackmachine archives the net. www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2020/05/dominic-cummings-press-conference-blog-predicted-covid-19-coronavirus

New Tue 26 May 20 14:28   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - smokie

Oh dear, Just when I thought people might be feeling a bit of sympathy towards him too!! I wasn't expecting or hoping he'd resign over Durham but that level of calculated deception from a senior government aide is enough to lose him his job in my book.

New Tue 26 May 20 16:09   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - tyrednemotional

>>but that level of calculated deception from a senior government aide is enough to lose him >>his job in my book. ...and you think much of the rest of it isn't calculated deception.....? The media were sniffing round the story over a month ago, based on the fact that they couldn't get a whiff of where he was after he'd exited Downing Street so dramatically, and the fact that his wife's blog was causing an amount of conjecture (it being observed that it didn't look like he was at home, but the blog was painting a picture of blissful (albeit diseased) domesticity). The obfuscation in that blog indicates to me that it was preying on their/her conscience at the time. They have had the intermediate time to cook-up a back-story, entangling bits of fact with pathos, exposure and reference to the child, expecting the story to break at any time. That's why that bit of the story hangs rather better together (though I don't find it an excuse) than what follows. The revelation that someone had seen him in Barnard Castle came to the party rather late, and unexpectedly. On the basis that it was one person's testimony, and had got limited traction, they decided to front it out (by totally ignoring it). Unfortunately, the official complaint to the Police and the decision of the Durham PCC to request an investigation (yesterday morning) negated that approach. It was most likely (since he was) that the Police would find he was in Barnard Castle without good reason, and so a tale was concocted very rapidly and unconvincingly about him "testing his eyesight". I think anyone that believes that (even though Michael Gove told Nick Ferrari this morning he'd done the same!!) wants their bumps feeling. (and if Dom really did do it for that reason, with his wife and child in the car, he'd need his bumps feeling). It was Easter Sunday, his wife's birthday, and against all advice they went out for a long-distance jolly. No extenuating circumstances, no excuses, and very difficult to invent anything like his prepared story about Durham. I'm not even sure if he really wanted the eyesight story to be taken seriously, or if he was seeing just how much he could take the p***. I've no particular party political axe to grind, but in the wider political sense I prefer whoever is running the country to have a smidgin' of integrity. I have little interest in Scottish politics (other than not supporting Independence) but I was clear in my mind that Catherine Calderwood had to go - if she hadn't been someone involved in the policy setting a quick dressing down and don't do it again might have been appropriate. Robert Jenrick and Stephen Kinnock tested the boundaries of the envelope (both using aged parents as an excuse, though in neither case were they needy parents, I have little respect for them). Tahir Ali was rather more sinning, but at least he had the grace to apologise (whether he meant it or not). The electorate will have their chance with these in the future. Cummings has led the Brexit campaign and Boris's election campaign with lies and obfuscations throughout - it's what he does. It matters not one jot whether you like the result of both those campaigns or not. Such an approach belittles us as a country. On a more practical note, and at the nub of the debate, it is patently another nail in the Government's pandemic messaging, which was already confused. I don't think that does us any favours as individuals or a country either. Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Tue 26 May 20 at 16:09

New Wed 27 May 20 22:40   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Netsur

>>>On a more practical note, and at the nub of the debate, it is patently another nail in the Government's pandemic messaging, which was already confused. I don't think that does us any favours as individuals or a country either.<< Absolutely. The government has been behind the people's actions for weeks. Yesterday it was annouced that we would soon be able to socialise with one family in the garden. Well, every one I know has been doing that for the last three or four weeks with no incidence of virus transmission. Anyone with any intelligence and a little scientific knowledge is aware that the virus is almost impossible to get if you are outdoors and social distancing. The main sources of transmission are internal and in close proximity for a reasonable length of time. Hence care homes are the worst places to be. Even the BBC managed to report that anyone under 45 has no increased risk of death due to Covid-19; i.e. teachers and schoolchildren can get back to work! Unfortunately too many people, furloughed or working permanently from home are totally scared of the virus and assume it will attack them as they leave their front doors. Those of us out and about doing our jobs are being careful but it is not really affecting our lives unless we have to queue in a shop or line up for the ridiculously shortened hours of banking. Time for people to grow up, the government to trust the populous to understand the risks and get the economy back. Apart from a few hotspots the property market is going nowhere, when most people are scared for their jobs and will not move house until they feel secure.

New Thu 28 May 20 14:43   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> The main sources of transmission are internal and in close proximity for a reasonable length >> of time. Hence care homes are the worst places to be. Even the BBC managed >> to report that anyone under 45 has no increased risk of death due to Covid-19; >> i.e. teachers and schoolchildren can get back to work! Do you have a source for that assessment about under 45? I suspect the risk of death is similar to other causes but it's new/additional. There are also serious risks short of death including pain etc of being long term sick, intubated etc, effects on family life and income and possibility of life changing damage to organs. Pleanty of teachers over 45. What about teachers or pupils acting as a vector for transmission of the virus whilst only mildly ill or asymptomatic themselves. I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be a change and a public awareness campaign about the real risks etc. Given the fuss somebody on a local FB group was making about how people who needed to get out of the house for their Mental Health were a risk to the rest of the village there's a way to go.

New Thu 28 May 20 15:14   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> Pleanty of teachers over 45. More than a few health professionals under 45 have died from the virus.

New Thu 28 May 20 14:52   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - henry k

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52835982 n a statement, Durham Police said they view Mr Cummings' 50-mile round trip to Barnard Castle with his wife and son as "minor" because there was no apparent breach of social distancing rules during their visit. The force said it had "no intention to take retrospective action in respect of the Barnard Castle incident", since this would amount to "treating Mr Cummings differently from other members of the public." On the issue of whether it was an offence for Mr Cummings to drive himself and his family from London to Durham to isolate on his family's farm, Durham Police said it did "not consider an offence was committed". So are we all free to do what we want :-( What stable door ?

New Thu 28 May 20 15:13   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> So are we all free to do what we want :-( well actually yes we are now, its just stuff and events being closed that is the limiting factor, which is as planned >> What stable door ? You may be in the stable still*, but most of us are now wandering round the pasture. *Not a criticism, you are clearly and sensibly making risk assessments and being cautious, which is fine and as it should be. People now need to take responsibility for their own safety and act accordingly.

New Thu 28 May 20 15:45   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - smokie

... and to my mind that's one of the things this period till now has been - a training and induction course to the "new world". Shame that some of the pupils don't seem to want to learn... I was talking yesterday to a mate in Koln. Their bars are open but they have to be seated inside the bar, where they have had to remove 50% of the seating, and there are servers coming round in masks taking and delivering your order. He had friends who had been to a restaurant and said they were sitting behind perspex. It all sounds pretty unexciting really. I can see places staying closed longer than necessary because they think they can't deliver the level of service they want to (though that would probably be outweighed by the need to get some bums on seats).

New Thu 28 May 20 16:12   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Manatee

>>People now need to take responsibility for their >> own safety and act accordingly. Collectively yes - which means individually we should still take responsibility for protecting others, e.g. wearing masks in enclosed spaces and self-isolating if we have symptoms. This is the part the "freedom" fighters forget when they demand to makes "their own" health choices. They should be held down and vaccinated when it is possible since they are obviously too stupid to work it out.

New Thu 28 May 20 17:11   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - henry k

>> >> What stable door ? >> You may be in the stable still*, but most of us are now wandering round the pasture. >> >> *Not a criticism, you are clearly and sensibly making risk assessments and being cautious, which is fine and as it should be. We are now in week 12 and i do not know when I will be able to bolt :-) I do not have a lot of option. Until our local council fully reinstates their relief services I cannot start to explore this new world. I think I might need some training as I will be weeks behind the now experieced shopping mob. I will have to quiz my loyal shoppers. SWMBO will not notice that some of the folks she joined on her day out are no longer attending so that is one less topic to try and explain. We are still well stocked up with all our needs and able to source all our preferred items easily. Must get watering the garden before the evening water pressure drops. Keep well and enjoy your freedom .

New Thu 28 May 20 16:19   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

"So are we all free to do what we want :-( What stable door ?" Of course, Henry, you do realise, don't you, that the whole Cummings fiasco wasn't about breaking lockdown ....... it was about sick, bitter Bremainiacs trying to get their own back on Cummings for his part in Brexit; thank goodness the CDS pandemic has nearly fizzled out. (CDS = Cummings Derangement Syndrome). I'm afraid that the MSM has come out of this very badly indeed - I look forward to the day when the government can get back to work as usual and sort out the Beeb. My dear son is a Bremainial, Cummings-hating snowflake so, when I saw him yesterday (socially distanced of course), I asked him what he and his partner would do with our 3yr old granddaughter if either/both of them took ill with covid and there was a disgusting, baying rabble outside the house. He went away to think about it.

New Thu 28 May 20 16:27   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - tyrednemotional

...well, at least he didn't immediately say he would come to yours..... ....which must be at least a bit revealing... ;-)

New Thu 28 May 20 16:34   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

"...well, at least he didn't immediately say he would come to yours....." Actually, he came to pick up some tomato plants ......... surely classed as food items? ;-)

New Thu 28 May 20 17:07   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Lygonos

Nice to see the Brexiteers supporting an unelected bureaucrat for a change.

New Thu 28 May 20 18:28   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

"Nice to see the Brexiteers supporting an unelected bureaucrat for a change." Always happy to support a key worker.

New Thu 28 May 20 17:06   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> Of course, Henry, you do realise, don't you, that the whole Cummings fiasco wasn't about >> breaking lockdown ....... it was about sick, bitter Bremainiacs trying to get their own back >> on Cummings for his part in Brexit; I'm sorry Haywain but that's nonsense on stilts; a conspiracy theory of Trumpian proportions. Those gunning for Cummings include papers like the Mail that were in the Vanguard of the leave campaign. It's also attracted support from Steve Baker, one of the leading lights of the ERG and a number of other MPs not noted for EU enthusiasm. It's got absolutely nothing to do with 'getting back' for Brexit though that's not to say Remainers wouldn't cheer heartily if when Cummings is given a bin liner and 10 minutes to clear his desk. The man has to go for a cavalier display of disregard for the rules the rest of us were held to. The fact that Johnson has spaffed up so much political capital to keep DC on board is telling.

New Thu 28 May 20 17:19   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - tyrednemotional

>>I'm sorry Haywain but that's nonsense on stilts Simon, you cannot be serious! "Man breaks Coronavirus lockdown rules he helped to formulate" was never going to be a news story unless it happened to be a Brexiteer that did it......... (Although I'm not sure whether Neil Ferguson was a Remainer or not) ;-)       1

New Thu 28 May 20 18:18   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>> (Although I'm not sure whether Neil Ferguson was a Remainer or not) I think anyone in Govt or a position of power would have been in the news. Look at Kinnock, the experts in the news that gracefully resigned etc. Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 28 May 20 at 19:47

New Thu 28 May 20 17:31   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> >> Those gunning for Cummings include papers like the Mail that were in the Vanguard of >> the leave campaign. >> As a point of interest, and a bit off topic the current editor of the Mail Geordie Greig is a remainer. The paper's stance on the EU has softened considerably since he left. Myself, I don't have a problem with anyone doing what Cummings did and would have done the same myself, but as one of the people responsible for implementing the lockdown and empowering the police to hand out fines for breaches he himself has to be whiter than white. If there is any degree of crossing the line in his actions he should be out.

New Thu 28 May 20 18:07   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>>but as one of the people responsible for implementing the lockdown and empowering the police to hand out fines Cummings is responsible for neither. He is advising the person who is. The *only* thing Cummings does is input to Johnson. Any fault or responsibility is Johnson's. The*only* person who has anything to say about Cummings' value is Johhson. If there's something that we as the electorate don't like, then we should make Johnson answer for it.

New Thu 28 May 20 18:26   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Terry

The media turned a fairly inconsequential, largely understandable, possible breach of guidance into a fight. It goes to the heart of the democratic process - whether journalists are rightly holding the government to account, or subverting the government through an abuse of journalistic privilege. The ONLY major breach of the Covid guidance came from the media - door stepping DC with absolutely no regard for social distancing or decency. We used to think such behaviour was confined to the "gutter press". It now seems most of the media have joined the "few". I for one will be pleased if the media lose the fight they started - we can at least fire political incumbants every 5 years - the media are wholly under the control of who-ever pays their wages.

New Thu 28 May 20 18:25   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

"The man has to go for a cavalier display of disregard for the rules the rest of us were held to.": I ask the same question of you, Brompt, that I asked my son in the above post. What would you have done? Let he that is without sin .............. I have a confession to make ......... on 2, maybe 3 occasions, I have driven my key-worker (supermarket) daughter to work for 8am on Sunday mornings. It is 2 miles to the supermarket, but I returned via a route that added an extra 14 miles; I did it to put a bit of charge back into the battery. If a policeman had stopped me and explained the rules to me, I would contritely have said yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir - I would certainly have resisted the temptation give him a lecture in virology. I now have acquired a C-tek charger. Anyone else broken the rules?

New Thu 28 May 20 18:41   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Lygonos

I haven't falsified my public blog, which is the bigger sin compared to his 260 mile drive, and surprisingly has been largely ignored. At least it confirms the current govt is led by a proven liar, guided by a proven liar, and is almost certainly doomed to go the way of sleaze. Jenrick has been burned for unlawfully allowing a party donor (Desmond) to get their development plans in the day before a change that would have cost £40m in extra social spending. Can't say the opposition impress me more though! A most inauspicious start the UK 2.0.

New Thu 28 May 20 22:37   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - henry k

>>At least it confirms the current govt is led by a proven liar, guided by a proven liar, and is almost certainly doomed to go the way of sleaze. >>Jenrick has been burned for unlawfully allowing a party donor (Desmond) to get their development plans in the day before a change that would have cost £40m in extra social spending In case you missed it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbtPvLB6BYU Who selected Jenrick ( who had a wander to his second home during lock down) to front up to Adam Bolton who confronted him for over 10 mins ?

New Thu 28 May 20 18:53   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>>Anyone else broken the rules? It's a bit more tricky to do so here, what with the military and armed police n' all. But I did take an enormously long route back from the hospital a week or so ago - about an extra 15 miles - For no good reason.

New Fri 29 May 20 10:41   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> I ask the same question of you, Brompt, that I asked my son in the >> above post. What would you have done? First of all I wouldn't have the option of fleeing to an isolated and vacant cottage on the family estate. We have, in the past, coped with young children while both badly under the weather. AIUI Cummings junior is four or five. I think a child that age, assuming of course he's developmentally normal, would respond well to an invitation to be a good lad and help Mum and Dad who are poorly. Bribery of the type where usual restrictions on TV/Tablet are eased would help. Adults could hopefully stagger around long enough to 'cook' nuggets and chips. I'm pretty sure many ordinary people who don't live in a nice North London townhouse with a garden etc still less have a family estate in the country, have done exactly that. >> I have a confession to make ......... on 2, maybe 3 occasions, I have driven >> my key-worker (supermarket) daughter to work for 8am on Sunday mornings. It is 2 miles >> to the supermarket, but I returned via a route that added an extra 14 miles; >> I did it to put a bit of charge back into the battery. If a >> policeman had stopped me and explained the rules to me, I would contritely have said >> yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir - I would certainly have resisted the >> temptation give him a lecture in virology. I now have acquired a C-tek charger. I've done similar for same reason. Setting out to nearby Towcester to do a shop the car warned me its battery was low. I therefore extended the trip via Tesco on the Northampton Ring Road to fill up with fuel. There was probably another 150miles left in the tank and since I doubt I've driven more than 50miles since lockdown began that wasn't strictly necessary. That though is simply linking together two things that might be 'legitimate excuse' to leave my home. Cummings is on another scale.....

New Fri 29 May 20 11:50   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Manatee

The fact that Cummings has driven a coach and horses through the rules and taken as a whole, his story is ridiculous. Had he not been so self-regarding he could have grovelled and apologised - there has been no apology - but instead he and Johnson have considered only themselves, their positions and their grip on power. Cummings' behaviour does not in any way justify anybody else doing the same, but the thickos on the local FB groups are now saying they will do what they want. I have previously said I didn't care whether he resigned or not but given the distraction this is causing and the damage done - Whitty and Vallance silenced, Johnson looking ridiculous, ongoing public protest, Tory MP's clamouring - he needs to go. So does Johnson really for his ridiculously incompetent handling and silencing of questions. Talk about turning a drama into a crisis. On the upside, the damage done to the Conservatives gladdens the hearts of many.

New Fri 29 May 20 13:15   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> The fact that Cummings has driven a coach and horses through the rules and taken >> as a whole, his story is ridiculous. There's also a story doing the rounds on SM, based I think on something on last night's Question Time, that the house he stayed in is fact his and not his Father's.

New Fri 29 May 20 14:23   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

>> I ask the same question of you, Brompt, that I asked my son in the >> above post. What would you have done? "First of all I wouldn't have the option of fleeing to an isolated and vacant cottage on the family estate." That smacks of jealousy, Brompt, let's assume that you did have an option of a farm up north and that a disgusting rabble was gathered around your front door. "We have, in the past, coped with young children while both badly under the weather. AIUI Cummings junior is four or five. ......." I understand that Cummings junior is 4 years old and has autism. And don't even attempt to lecture me on the trials of dealing with difficult family situations ..... we spent best part of 10 years up and down to Gt Ormond St with a daughter with hydrocephalus resulting from a sub-arachnoid cyst - and we had two small boys in the equation as well. At one point, my wife was in the isolation ward of the local hospital while they worked out that she had Reiter's Syndrome, and my daughter was on the children's ward upstairs. I could write a book about that period of our lives. It's a good job that you aren't standing in front of me right now. "I'm pretty sure many ordinary people who don't live in a nice North London townhouse with a garden etc still less have a family estate in the country, have done exactly that." You're pretty sure are you?

New Fri 29 May 20 16:00   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

>> You're pretty sure are you? >> Why bother asking for someone's opinion, if you're going to jump down their throat when they give it? >> Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 30 May 20 at 04:39

New Fri 29 May 20 16:41   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> Why bother asking for someone's opinion, if you're going to jump down their throat when >> they give it? Thanks Sooty I was thinking the same. Dealing with Haywain's tirade: I'm sure I'd love to own or have access to a 'rural retreat'. I'm certainly not jealous of anybody who has. If I really wanted one and chose my place carefully I suspect I could afford it. The accusation cheapens your argument. I wasn't attempting a lecture. Merely reciting my own experience with two developmentally normal children. If Cummings junior has Autism then I'd cut his parents some slack though nothing like enough to get them to County Durham. Cummings was filmed sprinting from Downing Street but he then returned to the office only breaking for the north later on so I'm not sure his wife's condition was as bad as he now asserts. I've not seen any film of Cummings arriving home from Downing Street or leaving the house later or heading north which makes be doubt the veracity of tales of a baying mob of reporters. Indeed if he'd loaded the car with kid and stuff for a fortnight away I suspect he'd have been tailed. There are, arising from this episode, any number of anecdotes of the way ordinary people in ordinary homes have dealt with domestic issues while badly affected by Covid. While anecdotes are not evidence I think there's enough for me to draw the 'pretty sure' conclusion that I did.

New Fri 29 May 20 17:25   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

"Why bother asking for someone's opinion, if you're going to jump down their throat when they give it? " I should have been more specific and asked what he would have done if he'd been in DC's shoes.

New Thu 28 May 20 18:34   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> "So are we all free to do what we want :-( >> What stable door ?" >> >> Of course, Henry, you do realise, don't you, that the whole Cummings fiasco wasn't about >> breaking lockdown ....... it was about sick, bitter Bremainiacs trying to get their own back What is it with you brexiteers, you got your own way, but you are still bitter and twisted about anyone else who didnt support you. As sure as god made little willies you are going to be bitching and whining that Brexit wasnt a super soar away success because it was sabotaged by " manical remoaniacs" (is the daily express your new lexicon or what) Get a life you sad git From a Brexiteer who things bojo is a dumb dick, cummins is a thoroughly unlikable turd, but still sympathetic to his currently unfair dilemma and unwarranted press attack. Last edited by: Zero on Thu 28 May 20 at 18:35

New Thu 28 May 20 18:49   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

"Get a life you sad git " I say, steady on, girls!

New Thu 28 May 20 19:02   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>> it was about sick, bitter Bremainiacs trying to get their own back on Cummings for his part in Brexit; Surely nobody cares about that b***** referendum anymore? It was years ago. I simply cannot imagine that anybody would still be driven by who voted what, why does it even matter? Or maybe I am just that naive.

New Thu 28 May 20 19:42   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

>> >> it was about sick, bitter Bremainiacs trying to get their own back on Cummings >> for his part in Brexit; >> >> Surely nobody cares about that b***** referendum anymore? People on SM do still, bits and bobs that I read anyway. I think some just like arguing with strangers on the Internet.

New Thu 28 May 20 19:44   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

Sad. Surely Social Media will implode and die at some point.

New Thu 28 May 20 19:59   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

"Surely nobody cares about that b***** referendum anymore? It was years ago. " My thoughts exactly - why can't they let it go???

New Thu 28 May 20 20:00   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> "Surely nobody cares about that b***** referendum anymore? It was years ago. " >> >> My thoughts exactly - why can't they let it go??? Yes try it and see

New Thu 28 May 20 20:41   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>> Even the BBC managed to report that anyone under 45 has no increased risk of death due to Covid-19; i.e. teachers and schoolchildren can get back to work! Where do you get this rubbish from? At best you're misunderstanding what you're reading.

New Fri 29 May 20 09:15   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - CGNorwich

Twitter hides Trump tweet for 'glorifying violence' www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52846679 This is going to get very interesting.

New Fri 29 May 20 09:38   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Lygonos

The first part of the tweet is perfectly reasonable in my opinion, but the "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" isn't exactly high brow politics. Not sure the US has an official shoot-to-kill policy for looters. (Maybe it has)

New Fri 29 May 20 09:49   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> The first part of the tweet is perfectly reasonable in my opinion, but the "when >> the looting starts, the shooting starts" isn't exactly high brow politics. I bet trump is apoplectic and blown up with rage that his soapbox is getting hostile. Twitter or trump? only one winner there, and it aint trump. >> Not sure the US has an official shoot-to-kill policy for looters. >> >> (Maybe it has) Kinda has, the National guard, when called out, can use lethal force to protect property.

New Fri 29 May 20 09:58   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> The first part of the tweet is perfectly reasonable in my opinion, but the "when >> the looting starts, the shooting starts" isn't exactly high brow politics. As set out in the BBC report, by chance or design Trump has chosen a phrase with historic associations around aggressive policing of black neighbourhoods.

New Fri 29 May 20 13:29   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

I see the police have even been firing tear gas in the direction of reporters in Minneapolis and have arrested reporters and camera team whilst live on air. Reporters are usually allowed unless there is a danger to them. I wonder if this is in response to Trumps vilification of the media? Strikes me that the police need all the fair news that they can get and if they start action against the media then they won't get coverage when they need it and of course when cameras are not there then they can get away with whatever they want. Even in the UK the Police continue to harass photographers, even when photographing famous land marks that have been in blockbuster films and are available on Google Streetmap or satellite views. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

New Fri 29 May 20 14:11   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Fullchat

There are photographers and so called 'photographers' who also class themselves as 'journalists' that go out of their way to cause confrontation. Many who seem to have a liking for Tommy Robinson.

New Fri 29 May 20 14:28   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> There are photographers and so called 'photographers' who also class themselves as 'journalists' that go >> out of their way to cause confrontation. Many who seem to have a liking for >> Tommy Robinson. You don't need to "cause" confrontation round Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon

New Fri 29 May 20 14:29   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>> There are photographers and so called 'photographers' who also class themselves as 'journalists' that go >> out of their way to cause confrontation. Many who seem to have a liking for >> Tommy Robinson. >> Oh there are idiots out there that specifically go around winding the police up, but at the same time the police rise to it! Filming the police is not illegal. It's especially amusing when the police claim it is illegal and yet their bwvc are on - they can't see the irony! Then there are the absolute numpty police officers that think all photography with anything other than an Instamatic camera is illegal. There is a classic video of a guy with a decent camera taking photos of Windsor Castle and they try and tell him its illegal to photograph one of the biggest tourist attractions in the area and another in Aylesbury who is arrested under terrorism legislation and assaulted for filming around the town centre - all he was doing was an annual whats changed since he did the same last year - what shops have come and gone over the years type of thing.

New Fri 29 May 20 14:32   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> I wonder if this is in response to Trumps vilification of the media? If they were CNN then Yes. >> Even in the UK the Police continue to harass photographers, even when photographing famous land >> marks that have been in blockbuster films and are available on Google Streetmap or satellite >> views. No they dont, that's completely untrue anti police rhetoric . They may ask what you are filming, IF its somewhere unusual, and a pleasant response will cause no issue. I have even had BTP affirm my right to film when confronted by jobsworth station staff Last edited by: Zero on Fri 29 May 20 at 14:33       1

New Fri 29 May 20 14:38   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>>If they were CNN then Yes. Funnily enough and it's not a good state of affairs. >>No they dont, Point your browser to Youtube. There are enough videos made recently of police getting rude and aggressive and even arresting people under terrorism legislation when people are filming. I agree most police are good but more than a couple of times, I wish I had a camera when dealing with the police because their actions were atrocious. Last edited by: zippy on Fri 29 May 20 at 14:39

New Fri 29 May 20 14:56   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

I have seen them, and the photographer always incites it.       1

New Fri 29 May 20 15:02   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>> I have seen them, and the photographer always incites it. >> How? Busy filming and not wanting any interaction with the police? It's the police that approach and the photographers just want to get on with their business. Remember, unless a crime is suspected, there is no obligation to give details to the police. This is not an ID requirement country.       1

New Fri 29 May 20 15:49   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> >> I have seen them, and the photographer always incites it. >> >> >> >> How? Busy filming and not wanting any interaction with the police? Usually filming a police involved incident with no regard to the victims, and getting in the way. >>It's the police that >> approach and the photographers just want to get on with their business. Remember, unless a >> crime is suspected, there is no obligation to give details to the police. This is >> not an ID requirement country. Exactly hit the police with that attitude and you get exactly what you deserve - agro. Honestly and pleasantness costs nothing and gets you loads back in return.       1

New Fri 29 May 20 16:10   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>>Usually filming a police involved incident with no regard to the victims, and getting in the way. No. They are idiots. The guy filming Windsor Castle was doing just that. No one in the way and not making a nuisance of himself. Same with the bloke in Aylesbury, he was not filming any incident - just got accosted by 2 PCSOs who he didn't want to waste his time with and they called a nasty example of a cop. It's the cops that get aggressive. They guys just politely repeated that there is no obligation to provide details unless they are suspected of a crime or driving a vehicle. The cops replied that they are not suspected of a crime yet still required details. The cops were escalating. How is saying "sorry, I don't want to give my details" escalating. Especially when the cops will put your name in the national computer so its recorded to build up a picture of you which they have no need to do save to add to the surveillance society. Remember these cops will happily film you and ignore Google Street View and numerous CCTV cameras all filming the same street scenes. All they really want to do is intimidate you and add you to their files.

New Fri 29 May 20 17:34   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> Aylesbury, he was not filming any incident - just got accosted by 2 PCSOs who >> he didn't want to waste his time with >> >> It's the cops that get aggressive. They guys just politely repeated that there is no >> obligation to provide details unless they are suspected of a crime or driving a vehicle. >> The cops replied that they are not suspected of a crime yet still required details. >> The cops were escalating. Sorry thats just typical of the snotty know-all obstructive attitude that gets you agro. Dont you have any concept of a polite friendly helpful attitude? Frankly you get all you deserve, no wonder you always get plenty of it.       1

New Fri 29 May 20 18:06   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Duncan

>> How is saying "sorry, I don't want to give my details" escalating. Especially when the >> cops will put your name in the national computer so its recorded to build up >> a picture of you which they have no need to do save to add to >> the surveillance society. Remember these cops will happily film you and ignore Google Street View >> and numerous CCTV cameras all filming the same street scenes. All they really want to >> do is intimidate you and add you to their files. >> I think you are in a self fulfilling prophesy and there is no way out unless you stop yourself.       1

New Fri 29 May 20 15:33   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> I have seen them, and the photographer always incites it. It cuts both ways I think. Some people with cameras are out to incite. OTOH there are also Police Officers who don't like being filmed and try to stop it when they see it. That's been evident in some of the cases of 'over reach' around Covid lockdown.       1

New Fri 29 May 20 16:04   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

>> >> I have seen them, and the photographer always incites it. >> >> It cuts both ways I think. Some people with cameras are out to incite. OTOH >> there are also Police Officers who don't like being filmed and try to stop it >> when they see it. That's been evident in some of the cases of 'over reach' >> around Covid lockdown. >> I'd agree there are two sides to them but the majority seem to be started by the photographer, of the random ones I've seen.       1

New Fri 29 May 20 16:18   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>> I'd agree there are two sides to them but the majority seem to be started >> by the photographer, of the random ones I've seen. >> There are some right a***s that rile the cops with their filming and deliberately go out of their way to do so. The cops are idiots to rise to it though. There are numerous others that jump out on innocent photographers and demand details they have no right to then get upset, aggressive and arrest when details are legitimately declined. These are the cops that tend to be sporting BWVC as well. Remember the police are not superior species that we are obliged to give obedience to and the attitude of some (not all by a long shot) damages that trust and policing by consent ethos that we have in this country.

New Fri 29 May 20 17:05   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

> There are some right a***s that rile the cops with their filming and deliberately go >> out of their way to do so. The cops are idiots to rise to it >> though. Of course but they are only human. >> There are numerous others that jump out on innocent photographers and demand details they have >> no right to then get upset, aggressive and arrest when details are legitimately declined. These >> are the cops that tend to be sporting BWVC as well. >> >> Remember the police are not superior species that we are obliged to give obedience to >> and the attitude of some (not all by a long shot) damages that trust and >> policing by consent ethos that we have in this country. >> >> Anyone might think you're not too keen on them.

New Fri 29 May 20 17:39   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>>Anyone might think you're not too keen on them. I've had my documented run ins with a City force who I wouldn't trust with a bar of soap. I've also experienced some absolutely charming officers, a few oiks and a thief.

New Fri 29 May 20 17:55   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Fullchat

There is a section of the community that believes that other than when they are being pandered to by the Police then in any any other interaction they are involved in then they are corrupt tyrants. Anyone who supports them is automatically a 'boot licker'. They do seem to follow a script. "Am I being detained?" is the normal starter for 10. Deliberately going to 'sensitive' locations, whipping out a camera and then awaiting the inevitable confrontation so that they can challenge the authorities and in some cases become totally obnoxious and belittling to my mind is somewhat twisted. Ultimately its the job of the authorities to keep us safe - to prevent and detect crime. That will usually involve some human intervention and some intelligence gathering to see if there is a pattern. Yes you are not normally obliged to provide this information, unless an offence has been committed, and these muppets exploit this fact to further their agendas. Politeness and co-operation go a long long way. Policing by consent goes both ways.

New Fri 29 May 20 18:08   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

> Deliberately going to 'sensitive' locations, whipping out a camera and then awaiting the inevitable confrontation >> so that they can challenge the authorities and in some cases become totally obnoxious and >> belittling to my mind is somewhat twisted. Yes, they are baiting the police. Look at the videos on Youtube and they are cringe-worthy, they go out of their way to bait the officers. Surely it's obvious who they are and should be ignored. Anything else and gives them ammunition. >> Ultimately its the job of the authorities to keep us safe - to prevent and >> detect crime. That will usually involve some human intervention and some intelligence gathering to see >> if there is a pattern. Yes you are not normally obliged to provide this information, >> unless an offence has been committed, and these muppets exploit this fact to further their >> agendas. Politeness and co-operation go a long long way. Policing by consent goes both ways. >> So does common sense. Being stopped every time you get an SLR out to photograph a tourist site is not terrorism. The terrorists are the ones with hidden cameras or just looking at Google street view.

New Fri 29 May 20 18:13   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

> >> >> So does common sense. Being stopped every time you get an SLR out to photograph >> a tourist site is not terrorism. Except of course you don't. I can only assume you never photograph tourist sights,

New Fri 29 May 20 18:19   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

It's all rather silly, don't you think? Why be obstructive? Of course there are idiots, though in my experience very, very few. But you can turn a darn sight more over to the dark side by being petulant, especially if they're already having a difficult day.

New Fri 29 May 20 18:42   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

Just as an aside, my favourite police are traffic officers. Never met a bad one. Even when caught speeding have been given fair advice. The seasonal head through the window to smell alcohol at road blocks is almost routine now - never drink and drive so its never a problem. One of my best mates is a DS and we shared a house for a while (not in the biblical sense). I'm a Godparent to her kids. Her hubby is even higher up but uniformed. There are some officers that they avoid interaction with. And re the attitude about not giving info. I have seen the face of some not so polite police officers when they look up your name and see it on their records, it's like they've won the jackpot, gives them any excuse to try it on. That's one of the reasons I don't, if I don't have to. Last edited by: zippy on Fri 29 May 20 at 18:44

New Fri 29 May 20 20:42   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

I don't think you've much chance of passing the attitude test. And passing the attitude test has saved my a*** far more often than insisting on my rights has ever done. >>There are some officers that they avoid interaction with. Every company, office, trade, building, village, pub or anything else I can think of has had some people that I avoid interaction with. It is of no particular significance. Unless you're saying that they know of another police officer who behaves illegally and they avoid him rather than dealing with it?

New Fri 29 May 20 20:53   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - No FM2R

>>than insisting on my rights has ever done. Thinking about it further I can remember several occasions where being a git about my rights has dropped me right in the cack.

New Fri 29 May 20 22:46   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

They are good people. In the over 30 years that I have known them they have always been generous with their time and I have never seen them get annoyed, raise their voices or take advantage of a situation. >> Unless you're saying that they know of another police officer who behaves illegally and they >> avoid him rather than dealing with it? >> There are people that like to push other people to the limit. Doing that gives them excuses to make arrests. The sort of copper you don't want to call when you need help as they will always figuratively pour more petrol on a fire to get their own way.

New Sat 30 May 20 00:07   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - smokie

I'm sure others must be wondering as I am, how many contacts do you have with the police? From your posts it seems to be a lot more than I ever have done. I can't even remember the last time I spoke to an on-duty copper, even to ask the time! Last edited by: smokie on Sat 30 May 20 at 00:07

New Sat 30 May 20 02:17   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

Motoring. Used to be weekly in the 1980s. Lived a town away from my girlfriend and travelled late at night / early morning on a Friday / Saturday night. Usually on suspicion of drink driving. Never did. Breathalysed only once after drinking some aniseed flavoured cola designed to taste like rum and coke. Obviously totally clear result. Officers always polite. Once on a motorbike. Not speeding. Questioned about the number of keys I had on my fob! Produced my US Airbase pass as it was all I had on me and was offered an escort for the rest of my journey - no kidding. Once waiting outside a shop for a January sale - like people did - I just got my first house and couldn't afford a TV and this shop was doing one in the sale for £20 from £120. Was freezing and about 4AM. Half a dozen police officers turned up and when I explained why I was there insisted I moved on. Told them in no uncertain terms that I wasn't as I would lose my place. Fairly regularly before the lock down for travelling to work. I get a travel day to go to clients the other end of the country. I chose to travel at night as it's quieter. I also like to find the industrial estate and have a quick look at a customers new units from the car. Usually a few times a year questioned as to what I'm doing there at silly o'clock. Most are fine but more recently some have given the old I can smell cannabis rubbish for a search of the car. They know its crap and I know its crap. General traffic / speeding - just over half a dozen times. Never ticketed, often the police officer left smiling, once or twice laughing, though got a course once from an average speed camera. Photography 4 times. Once in London. You cant photograph in Trafalgar Square - had a new digital SLR when they were still very rare. They were convinced it was a professional camera and I needed a permit. I didn't. They walked up to me whilst I was taking photos and were included in some shots. Got the you can't photograph police carp and ordered to delete them. Refused as it was my record of the encounter. Gave my name. It came up that I had been arrested before - I'll come to that later. They used that as an excuse to arrest and examine the camera. They deleted the images. Decided from that point on not to give name unless obliged. Got an out of court settlement for that with a NDA. Visiting a prospective client in Leeds. I parked my company car in the directors' car park. My car had a leased from big uk bank in the window and on the plates. Bailiffs turned up and clamped my car. It being a brand new 3 series. Showed them my business card. The directors told the bailiffs that I was nothing to do with them. I called the lease company to sort. The lease company sent the AA who took the wheel off and fitted the spare. Bailiffs called the police who arrived promptly. The police spoke to the bailiffs. Told the AA man to sod off and didn't even speak to me before putting cuffs on me and charging me with obstructing the bailiffs. Work got a solicitor from their Leeds corporate centre to the police station and I got a very satisfactory apology from an Inspector. The worst was when I lived 60 miles from a major city. Half a dozen or more police from that city broke down my front door in the early hours and carted me off scaring the wits out of my wife and kids. My crime: Turning off a computer that I owned. Seriously! They wouldn't tell me or my wife what station I was going to so she frantically called all the local ones to find out with no luck. My friend mentioned previously was on honeymoon at the time so couldn't be contacted to help. They were only very junior constables then so probably wouldn't have been able to find much out. The reason I turned it off was that it was connected to a credit agency that charged me for every lookup as agreed. I had written some software for my fledgling company and sold it to my employer. Someone stole the software and went to work for a now defunct American bank. From half a dozen look ups a day it went to hundreds and the bill within days was well over £5k at a time when my house cost £30k for comparison. Bandwidth bills also went through the roof - my contract was for a few megabytes a month and it went to hundreds of megs. I found out who the new users were and got my solicitors to tell them to stop and effectively got a "feck off" in response. I would have been bankrupt by the end of the month if they carried on. The only way to stop the charges was to stop the service which I did, with the agreement of my employer / customer. Normal service to commence when things were sorted. The timescale for this was less than a week. Noticed a huge uplift in traffic on a Monday evening. Called my customer to check if it was them on the Tuesday morning. They confirmed it wasn't them. Got a call from my suppliers on the Wednesday warning of big invoices coming. By that time I still hadn't figured out who it was but put the stop on everything. Thursday my solicitors faxed the bank. On the Friday morning I was in cuffs at the station and the Mrs wasn't told where I was until the Monday morning. The american bank could not assess the files that they had created illegally and used this to literally over night get their security consultants (ex employees of that city's police force) to contact their mates in that force and arrest me under the computer misuse act. They forgot to mention that they were in fact stealing computer services and were in fact the guilty party under that act. The duty solicitor said plead guilty. No one seemed to care that it was the american bank that was the wrong doer and tried to hide the fact with bully boy tactics. I had to employ my own solicitor and legal team and it basically cost me my house. Recovery was at legal aid rates. I tried to go after the american bank but it was before no-win - no fee and they had very big very expensive lawyers and my legal team said we'd run out of money before we even got to court. The police wen't interested in going after them for computer misuse and theft. The whole saga showed up on CRB checks and resulted in me not getting jobs. I literally took my solicitor with me to a pre-interview lunch with a bank employer interview. He set out the facts to the divisional director and my prospective manager and luckily the employer understood. I have changed jobs a few times since and each time it still comes up (now enhanced DBS). It also comes up every two years at work now when enhanced DBS checks are updated and I have to go through the whole episode again as HR staff or directors change. So funnily enough a lot of police are far from my favourite people. They could have easily acted differently by checking some facts rather than corruptly accepting orders from ex-senior officers within that force. There are a few other encounters, one most recently was whilst on my way back from hospital after I was there recently. Stopped with a what are you doing out during lock-down again at silly o'clock. Told them that I had just been to hospital. They threatened to fine me as that wasn't a good enough reason for them FFS. Please forgive any typos, grammar etc. but I've only manged to get about 4 house sleep in the last 48 hours. Last edited by: zippy on Sat 30 May 20 at 02:20

New Sat 30 May 20 06:40   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

Seems an incredibly large number of interactions with the police. I could go weeks if not months without even seeing one. I've never been stopped by the police. I don't think I've even been spoken to one whilst they were on duty.

New Sat 30 May 20 08:54   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - smokie

Yup it sure sounds a lot, and not only that but many seem to have gone wrong!! I've had a couple of speeding stops over the years (despite being on best behaviour both resulted in being reported as my speed was truly excessive - both times well into 3 figures on quiet motorways, but the last of these was maybe 15 years ago or more). I remember being stopped in a night time roadside check in Glasgow about 20+ years ago. Also had a lot of plod round when we got burgled but I was more than happy with the way that went. The one occasion I can really remember when it nearly went wrong was when SWMBOs car was driven into one morning when parked on the (residential) road outside our house. It was shunted along a good house length or more due to the speed at which it was hit. We'd made tea for all involved and the attending plod, who had interviewed those involved in our front lounge, when along came another plod and decided to inspect SWMBOs her rather badly damaged car (which I'd moved onto the drive) and found a marginal tyre and reported her for it. However no further action was taken.

New Sat 30 May 20 10:47   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Haywain

"along came another plod and decided to inspect SWMBOs her rather badly damaged car (which I'd moved onto the drive) and found a marginal tyre and reported her for it. For which, her defence would have been that it was alright until it was worn down by this ....... "It was shunted along a good house length or more due to the speed at which it was hit."

New Sat 30 May 20 09:53   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> Seems an incredibly large number of interactions with the police. I could go weeks if >> not months without even seeing one. My thought too. As far as I recall I've had four encounters. One was driving a Mini with a defective sealed beam unit - only showed side light. I knew it was faulty but couldn't shift a corroded retaining screw and had kept forgetting to book it in for repair. Feigned ignorance and got off with a warning and a 'producer'. Two others during drunken horseplay with work mates. On one occassion we were reciting an obscenity laden Derek and Clive sketch, the other messing about with a trolley in Covent Garden. Told to shut up and/or move on. Once in the Xantia so early noughties on the outskirts of Chester, Mrs B driving. We were on the A54 and a Police BMW joined from a side road then followed us for several miles. Eventually the blues went on and we stopped. Very polite, asked us where we were from and if the car was ours ( that would have tallied with the check I suspect they'd already done). Im sure there was an olfactory check for booze but we hadn't touched a drop in 23 hours. Reason given was that Mrs B was 'weaving' a bit. I'd not noticed that or I'd have mentioned it. My suspicion was, and remains, that it was a practice pull for a newish recruit to traffic. On another tack one of Miss B's lecturers at Sheffield Hallam was, in his own words as she reported, as black as the ace of spades. He asked his class, probably 40 undergrads all 20-21 to put their hands up if the could drive. He then said leave it up if you've ever been stopped by the police. Perhaps one or two hands stayed up. He recited a history of his own stops - a couple of dozen.

New Sat 30 May 20 10:07   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Runfer D'Hills

Interesting Bromp, an ex-colleague of mine, also of Afro-Caribbean descent, and also living in Sheffield and, perhaps ironically, married to a police officer, has been pulled over dozens of times in his 30 odd years of driving. He's about the most careful driver I've ever known, never had an accident, never had a speeding ticket, always had decent cars and not even had a parking fine, but he is constantly being stopped by the police. Go figure as "they" say.

New Sat 30 May 20 10:37   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - devonite

It doesn't help that Police earn "bonus-credits" for every ticket they write, this is a powerful incentive for them to escalate things to the arrest stage, no matter how innocuous the confrontation originally was. Abusing of powers is becoming more widespread, and with up to 20,000 more new constables patrolling the streets trying to make a name for themselves, and getting such brand-new power they have never had before, things are going to get a lot worse for everyone! - Every body should stand up to them and impose their Human right, or before you know it this WILL be a police state!

New Sat 30 May 20 11:57   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Fullchat

What a load of tosh!

New Sat 30 May 20 13:14   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - devonite

FC - you obviously retired too early!! www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5o7gxpY8XM

New Sat 30 May 20 13:19   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Bromptonaut

>> FC - you obviously retired too early!! >> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5o7gxpY8XM More you tube fu**wittery. Why's it all back to front? Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 30 May 20 at 13:20

New Sat 30 May 20 13:43   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - devonite

must be some truth to it , regardless of the tech issues, unless the TV company are going to willing broadcast people impersonating Police constables to the whole nation and are prepared to face the legal consequences!

New Sat 30 May 20 13:51   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>> >> FC - you obviously retired too early!! >> >> >> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5o7gxpY8XM >> >> More you tube fu**wittery. That's a professionally produced video with real police officers confirming that they have been given targets. Shown on C5 or Sky or similar. >>Why's it all back to front? Because it stops the copyright detection software finding them on Youtube and getting them removed.

New Sat 30 May 20 14:16   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - sooty123

>> FC - you obviously retired too early!! >> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5o7gxpY8XM >> Is it just me or is all the sound garbled?

New Sat 30 May 20 14:29   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>> >> FC - you obviously retired too early!! >> >> >> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5o7gxpY8XM >> >> >> >> Is it just me or is all the sound garbled? >> Sounds fine to me. Though they do alter the audio as well as that's often filtered through copyright detection engines. Both ITV and BBC scan YouTube automatically looking for signatures embedded in their videos. They don't ask for the videos to be removed though. They charge YouTube for a fee to display the video. Sometimes YouTube pays - if they make income from the video themselves, other times they remove the offending video.

New Sat 30 May 20 14:33   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>> FC - you obviously retired too early!! >> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5o7gxpY8XM >> Would love to see a court case re a stop at the end of the month... Officer, what would happen if you didn't hit your monthly points target: I would get a disciplinary warning. Officer, how many points had you accrued: 295. How many did you need to hit your target: 300. How many points was this stop worth to you: 5! It doesn't strike me as honest policing to give officers arrest targets. It risks criminalising the population. Last edited by: zippy on Sat 30 May 20 at 14:34

New Sat 30 May 20 14:47   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Fullchat

It does not come across well and you should not read too much into it. There has always been Performance Monitoring in one way shape or another basically to ensure that Officers are not 'tossing it off' all day. That has to be balanced against other workloads. For example dealing with a fatal collision can take up many days/weeks with statistically very little to show at the end of it but a valuable job completed. There are no rewards or bonuses but if you are seen consistently to not be pulling your weight then there are management sanctions. And so it should be. Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 30 May 20 at 14:47

New Sat 30 May 20 16:20   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Manatee

If it wasn't obvious which it should be, it's been documented for a long time that performance measures are best not used as targets.

New Sat 30 May 20 10:54   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - James Loveless

In my seventy-plus years I've been stopped by the police only twice. The first time was when I was aged 18 and was speeding in my father's Jaguar Mk1 2.4 on the A1. My parents were both in the car. I had gone through a 50 mph area - one of those very short unexpected ones on the outskirts of a village - at some speed, maybe 60, could have been more. The police were courteous but firm. They said they had followed me for a shorter distance than prosecution allowed (no speed cameras in those days), but felt I needed a sharp warning. The other time was when I was about 25 and had parked my car (a Vauxhall Viva Brabham) some distance from the flat where I was living - it was a town-centre flat over a shop with no parking nearby. I was walking the half-mile home at around midnight on a Sunday evening when I was approached and asked where I had come from and where I was going. Apparently my answers were satisfactory.

New Sat 30 May 20 11:07   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

>> In my seventy-plus years I've been stopped by the police only twice. Been stopped loads of times in my youth, being 19 in a nearly new Capri was the driver there. Managed to talk my way out of almost everything. Only exceptions were 1 speeding ticket, (racing the unmarked cop car down the A30 didn't help there) and one DD10, you wont talk your way out of that one.

New Sat 30 May 20 15:10   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>> Go figure as "they" say. Was seeing a lovely girl. Met up with a group of mates and went to a quiet country pub near Tunbridge Wells. One of my mates went to buy a round and the barkeep belted out "oi we don't serve her e***** type here!" We all got up and left, really surprised to see a family and a few others get up and leave as well!

New Sat 30 May 20 11:03   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Zero

Two things stand out from this, 1/ you seems to attract far more than your share of attention, and 2/ it all escalates badly I would suspect body language and attitude is the root cause for both.

New Sat 30 May 20 13:41   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>> Two things stand out from this, 1/ you seems to attract far more than your >> share of attention, and 2/ it all escalates badly >> >> I would suspect body language and attitude is the root cause for both. >> I'm not sure how body language or attitude stops an early morning raid by cops on a pre-planned mission? That was a life changing interaction. I am just glad glad the big american bank ceased to be in 2008! I suspect (I know) my registration numbers were on the PNC for a number of years and that resulted in a number of traffic stops. The one camera incident - yes, but then they were being officious idiots. Why should I have to delete my images - something that had no power to insist on without a court order! The other 3 camera incidents were all low key interactions and always ended amicably but I don't give my details because I know it would escalate if I did - oooh - look someone arrested under the computer misuse act - lets do him. The traffic stops - never had any issues with the cops. Got a couple of producers when I didn't have docs or there as a light out that I hadn't noticed or once a crack where someone had bumped the back whilst I was parked and cracked the brittle back light plastic so it was letting white light out - old Vauxhall Chevette. The occasional, "I can smell cannabis" when I'm already parked up, well that's just crooked cops. I guess they do that to nearly everyone. Nothings ever come of them. The weekly stops between towns. They were constantly stopping cars on that road late at night. Every journey I would make there was a pulled car - which meant that I would not be stopped - if there wasn't a pulled car then it would be me or the car behind me. At the time it was a road with a suicide lane with lots of deaths and a cop car at each end and I'm not surprised that it was heavily policed at night club throwing out time. Again I find traffic cops to be mainly very polite and reasonable and if I had failed the attitude test then I would have got an awful lot of tickets and never have from a traffic cop. The arrest in Leeds, I didn't even get a chance to talk to the cops, I was literally just standing by my car, suit, tie and brief-case, it was- a time before mobiles and laptops. I was chatting to the directors of the firm I was visiting - back to the bailiffs and didn't even see the cops but understand that the bailiffs pointed me out to them. And if you were 200 miles from home and your car was immobilised wrongly then wouldn't you moan to the bailiffs that they had clamped a car in error and preparing to have it lifted when they had no right to or would you just leave it? They were ignoring everything that they had been told by me, by the lease company and by the directors of the company that I was visiting and just picked on the newest car in the car park. So in all 3 arrests: One camera incident down to attitude I would not do what I had no obligation to do - for which I got a little compensation. One totally spurious with what was honestly a sincere apology from an Inspector and a nice coffee and biscuits in his office. Even the custody sergeant let me wait in the reception and not a cell. I was not finger printed, so he clearly had doubts. My employers solicitor drove me back to the Leeds industrial estate in his Range Rover, escorted by two police officers, one a sergeant. They spoke to the bailiffs who by that time had my car on a low loader. It was very promptly unloaded and checked over and they were even told to swap the other wheel over. One life changing but I would have done whatever anyone else in the same situation would have done - pull the plug or risk being bankrupted. Big american bank had no intention to pay for the services that they were stealing.

New Sat 30 May 20 13:58   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Manatee

In fairness, once 'known to the police' you have a choice between them being extra suspicious when they find out or getting up their noses by refusing to give your details. I had obnoxious, and I've had fair. But probably fewer than 10 encounters in 50 years. I have never been arrested. Certain circumstances, behaviours and locations can dramatically increase the likelihood of being shaken down. My erstwhile brother-in-law played local league football every week. Afterwards he was invariably in the pub until closing or later. The he would walk home a couple of miles through the darkened streets of Halifax with the Gladstone bag that he carried his kit in. He lost count of the times he was stopped and searched, suspected of going equipped.

New Sat 30 May 20 14:25   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>> until closing or later. The he would walk home a couple of miles through the >> darkened streets of Halifax with the Gladstone bag that he carried his kit in. He >> lost count of the times he was stopped and searched, suspected of going equipped. >> >> I don't mind that sort of thing. The night time stops were designed to stop drink drivers on a lethal road. The cops knew why they were doing it. The drivers knew why they were doing it and they were always decent - explaining why they stopped etc.

New Sat 30 May 20 14:35   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Fullchat

' The cops knew why they were doing it. The drivers knew why they were doing it and they were always decent - explaining why they stopped etc.' Therein lies the crux. Good communication skills, a sense of humour and an explanation. However it seems that many interactions now are a filming opportunity about being a victim and to be totally obnoxious. Just as an addendum. Its a big subject but PNC does not hold intelligence as such. Local systems hold that information. Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 30 May 20 at 14:38

New Sat 30 May 20 14:56   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - zippy

>>Therein lies the crux. Good communication skills, a sense of humour and an explanation. I've told this before... First house. Skint. Very skint. I was 22. Old banger, hit by an old half blind tit and written off. We bought it back off the insurers and hammered out the dents. Road recently NSL and reduced to 30. Quite a steep hill. T-Junction at the bottom from which I emerged. Officers step out from behind a bush at the top of the hill with a radar gun and I'm pulled. Officer politely asks for details and looks around the car prodding it occasionally and going tut tut. Pointed out a couple of admittedly sharp jagged edges and asked that I smooth them down for safety sake. No probs, will do that with a rasp and filler when I get home. He then comes to the reason for the stop. You were doing 40 up the hill and I could hear you rev the engine at the T-junction down the bottom - must be quarter of a mile away. I looked the officer straight in the face and said something like "If I didn't give it some welly I would never have gotten up the hill!". I looked around and "Mrs Z to be" had slunk down in to the footwell out of embarrassment! The officer was clearly trying not to laugh and managed to get out "go on, get going and don't let me catch you speeding again!"

New Sat 30 May 20 14:48   Coronavirus - Volume 18 - Robin O'Reliant

Same experience as Z when I was a young shaver with a Capri, countless pulls but police were always polite and I never got a ticket. When I was a driving instructor I once had a very lucky one - driving home at the end of an evening in a heavily signed tuition car I was slightly on the high side of thirty and went through a light which I would describe as "Dark amber". Humbly apologetic I got away with a finger wagging and a "You should no better". Two on motorcycles, one along the Embankment when a bike cop asked me if I was "Having a little trouble lifting of, squadron leader?" A telling off and a chat about bikes was the result of that one. The most annoying one was another on a bike which was in the Local Authority livery and clearly marked "London Borough of Xxxxxxxxx" in various places, as was my uniform. I was grilled by a young PC who looked like he should have been at school as to whose it was and what I was doing on it, the cackle of my two way radio providing a further clue that escaped him. That resulted in a producer, which I thought a total waste of my time.