If they are serious about attacking racism may I suggest the immediate removal of the battle cry "Black Lives Matter" and replacing it with "All Lives Matter".
Otherwise it's just self-serving, self-interest driven, protest without any higher meaning.
I'd also suggest that anyone of whatever colour with a proven criminal record withdraw from the protests/Riots immediately since they are clearly a fundamental part of the problem.
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>>All lives matter.
Was saying just that this afternoon with Mrs Z
>>Criminal history.
Disagree there. Some sections of the population are criminalised more than others, with similar cases of people in one social or racial group being criminalised whist the same crimes committed by people of privilege being let off with warnings.
Some US states also go down the route of disenfranchising people who commit crimes. Again for what ever reason this hits coloured and poor people more, making them unable to chose a govt more likely to improve their lot.
The current presidents wish to ban postal voting also has the likely effect of disenfranchising coloured and poor segments of the population.
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Maybe I should have said "severe" criminal history.
I noticed in Los Angeles there was a group of gang members outraged over the treatment of Black & Latino people.
Pah. By what right does a gang member speak about human rights? And if you have had no contact, you cannot imagine how disgusting and awful these gangs are.
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>> If they are serious about attacking racism may I suggest the immediate removal of the
>> battle cry "Black Lives Matter" and replacing it with "All Lives Matter".
But if there's a perception that Black lives matter less?
EDIT: Black Lives Matter Too?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 7 Jun 20 at 19:28
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In our current situation, lives matter. Massive demonstrations threatens lives- Full stop, Black or white is of no consequence.
I'm also reluctant, currently, to support any efforts to find out why the CV affects other races more. The virus is a common enemy, and any attempt to split cure and research by race threatens to dilute the rapid cure, genetics causes will fall out the wash anyway.
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It's not just a perception, it's a fact.
But Mark is right, the rioting, damage and injuries which accompany the demonstrations are committed by a very small minority who have no interest in the cause, who really should be locked up before the marches start (although that in istelf would cause more rioting...).
My 15 yo daughter wanted to go on a march but given the likelihood of injury and getting the virus we said no. Far too dangerous.
It is a pity as there would be many people willing to show their support if they felt safe to do so. There is little each of us can do individually to solve the problem, but if we show publically our distaste for the actions of the police in the USA, and ensure that our personal behaviour in private or at work matches our public shows of distaste, then progress will be made.
The most astonishing thing in all this (and something I did not know until this morning) was that George Floyd was handcuffed already when the police officer was kneeling on him. What threat could he have been to anyone? Even if he had tried to run off, he would have been caught within seconds by the other idiot policemen watching the killing.
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>>My 15 yo daughter wanted to go on a march but given the likelihood of injury and getting the virus we said no. Far too dangerous.
I faced a similar thing when #1 wanted to go on a march amid the riots in Chile last year, though she was 17 not 15, which is quite a difference.
I let her go in the end, with many misgivings and a long list of precautions and recommended behaviour. But of course I didn't have to take a virus into consideration.
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>> The most astonishing thing in all this (and something I did not know until this
>> morning) was that George Floyd was handcuffed already when the police officer was kneeling on
>> him. What threat could he have been to anyone? Even if he had tried to
>> run off, he would have been caught within seconds by the other idiot policemen watching
>> the killing.
>>
Two of the other policemen arrested were rookies with only a few weeks on the job experience.
I wonder if some of the "kneeing" was showboating - look how much power I have over the subject from the more experienced officer to the juniors and how much they were keen to "fit in" and not raise concerns like other members of the public were doing.
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>> I wonder if some of the "kneeing" was showboating - look how much power I
>> have over the subject from the more experienced officer to the juniors and how much
>> they were keen to "fit in" and not raise concerns like other members of the
>> public were doing.
Certainly looked that way, the junior officers looked uncomfortable about the whole thing, and probably didnt have the confidence or experience to intervene.
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I've had some dealings with the police in the US.
Having a British accent does give you some advantage, and in the normal course of events they are perfectly polite and often helpful. A special mention to the San Mateo police here.
That said my personal experience is that they're just fine until you come to their attention. And then they have an excessive and escalating response. They shout, are chaotic, drown each other out and confuse each other, have little or no discipline and think that they are Clint Eastwood.
There seems to be a binary switch between the two behaviours seemingly depending on their spur of the moment thought about which side of the fence you fall.
If I assume that my accent makes things a little better, then it is not unreasonable to think that one's skin colour could make things worse. And I think I would not like to experience that.
Yet another organisation in the world that makes one appreciate the organisations in the UK.
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6251431.stm
Over-reaction for jay-walking. I wonder if the fact that he is a latino had any impact on his treatment. His accent certainly didn't help.
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That was 13 years ago so not current., though I guess that's not particularly important.
That said I think, that like the UK police, there is an attitude test and if you pass it you're mostly ok. The difference being that in the US the test has a hair trigger and a reaction which starts extreme and quickly escalates.
In the case you link to, him not realising the shouter was a policeman and then being difficult about showing his ID meant he failed the test.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 7 Jun 20 at 21:15
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This time line video has been constructed from a lot of the available footage.
At this point the arrest looks reasonable and proportionate. It is belived as Floyd is taken from the vehicle he drops a small bag of drugs on the floor which you can see.
He is taken to the Police vehicle and I believe secured in the rear. At some point it all goes down hill and he is dragged out of the rear onto the road.
Footage from a passer by then records Floyds final minutes of life. I am finding it difficult to comprehend why the verbal prompts from the passers by do not cause the Police Officer to re assess the situation whilst being visibly filmed. Red mist? Arrogance?
And to hear Floyd being instructed and agreeing to get into the back of the car whilst he is unable to move is totally beyond me.
WARNING !!! THIS VIDEO SHOWS THE FINAL MINUTES OF FLOYDS LIFE. PLEASE DO NOT WATCH IF YOU FEEL YOU SHOULD NOT WATCH SUCH THINGS. HOWEVER IT IS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vksEJR9EPQ8&t=9s
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I watched it. Very disturbing.
Clearly though it has already gone wrong before the police officer who caused his death had arrived. not that that excuses anything, but it does further illustrate that the problem is wider than one officer and a couple of rookies.
Once they've decided you've crossed a line there seems no restraint, coordination or thought in their actions. They're frequently brutal and frequently excessively harsh.
And I say that as a white Brit. Goodness knows what it is like if you're a Black American, especially if you come from the wrong/poor areas.
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I've had one "run in" with a Nevada State Trooper. (well two I guess one was covering the other)
I was technically in the wrong, I was polite, friendly and compliant in every way. Despite my accent, or maybe because of it, he was hostile, sarcastic and belittling at the outset and improved not one jot over the whole encounter.
I got away with it, not because he was doing me a favour or out of the goodness of his heart, but he was too godamn lazy to deal with the extra paperwork of a foreign license holder.
Mind you the US customs and Border protection make him look like a beacon of humility good humour and joy.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 7 Jun 20 at 21:39
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>>Mind you the US customs and Border protection make him look like a beacon of humility good humour and joy.
Oh I agree, they are just awful. Nasty, officious bullies who just want to score points by visiting their power upon you. Especially if you are in anyway vulnerable; especially those with English as a second language and without a great command of it.
And they are full of their own righteousness.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 7 Jun 20 at 21:45
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I'm not sure I found them that bad, officious yes but that's an American trait. The ones at Newark were quite chatty and quite friendly. The smaller less mainstream airports were generally no worse than anywhere else.
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My experience is that the worst are at Logan (Boston) but none of them are great.
I have no idea how many border crossings I have done, but it is certainly in the thousands. In my experience the US are the worst I've ever dealt with. Not always, of course, but far more often than they should be.
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>>US customs and Border protection
We had work laptops taken by them on arrival to the states. Information downloaded. Convinced it was given to rival US banks to win over the companies we were quoting for.
>>US COPS
Stories coming out about Canadian drivers being targeted as not having acceptable licences and vehicles impounded. Cops refuse to accept that a Canadian licence (as is a UK licence) valid within the US. Drivers tend to be arrested and consulates / embassies not informed as is normally required.
>>US COPS WITH GUNS
This unarmed care giver was shot and the cop didn't know why he shot him:
www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/north-miami-officer-who-shot-unarmed-caregiver-man-autism-found-n1018616
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 7 Jun 20 at 22:14
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Even watching Traffic Cops programs here I reckon I would last two seconds as a copper.
The crap and disrespect that many Joe Bloggs give them is unbelievable. Not to mention every passer by videoing them with their phones.
I couldn’t do their job.
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Do not most US airports have automated border control points? I know they do in Canada.
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>> Do not most US airports have automated border control points? I know they do in
>> Canada.
No, not even between Canada and the US. Fortress mentality, which I assume is now worse under Trump.
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>> Do not most US airports have automated border control points? I know they do in
>> Canada.
Where it is available one goes to an automated point where the basic checks, including biometric, are made and the basic questions answered. One is issued a receipt which one takes along with one's passport to the secondary inspection area and a real person for finalisation which can be cursory, intensive or anywhere in between.
It's in a lot of airports. I have no idea where it currently lies along the line of some / most / all.
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Thats basically the same as the Canadian system. A lot quicker than it used to be, more or less waved through the last couple of times I've been.
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>> Do not most US airports have automated border control points? I know they do in
>> Canada.
>>
Not in the airports I went through.
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George Floyd protests - zippy
