Non-motoring > Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads Miscellaneous
Thread Author: henry k Replies: 25

 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - henry k
Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads from Saturday

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53219331
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - zippy
It's a real shame that private scooters will not be allowed. There is no explanation as to why but I guess it's due to insurance etc.

I can see some smaller towns being left out with no scooter rental companies being interested in setting up there.

The rental model seems to work for one way trips in some urban areas. E.g. get to town, need to return, hire a scooter return home, leave scooter. It gets collected, returned to town again. Need to go to town tomorrow, no scooter available as you live in the suburbs.

Legalising private scooters is the way to go if its going to be done - after all they have private cycles and rental cycles.
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 30 Jun 20 at 17:06
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Bromptonaut
Yet another case of announce something immediate and worry about the legal details later.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Terry
If you are riding an e-scooter how does anyone known it's rented or owned.

Perhaps there is a market for long term rental (say 3-5 years) with a massive discount for an advance lump sum rental payment - roughly equal to the retail price.

Or will the police (seriously under resourced) stop scooters and check on documentation (unlikely I suspect)

Or is it just a profoundly stupid, ill thought through proposal which will be completely ignored by all and sundry!
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Zero

>> Or is it just a profoundly stupid, ill thought through proposal which will be completely
>> ignored by all and sundry!

As opposed to a complete unregulated free for all?
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - zippy
>>
>> >> Or is it just a profoundly stupid, ill thought through proposal which will be
>> completely
>> >> ignored by all and sundry!
>>
>> As opposed to a complete unregulated free for all?
>>

It could be regulated though.

Simple RFID chip in the scooter for ID, linked to a compulsory insurance database etc. Would have been nice to see insurers coming out with a flat rate insurance for the things - say £10 a month.

Problem is no one wants to draft regulations / legislation / enforcement. So the solution we now have is a lazy compromise.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Zero
>> Yet another case of announce something immediate and worry about the legal details later.


Not really, its a very shrewd move.
1/ you make sure they are not "modded" above a certain speed limit
2/ 3rd Insurance can be included in the hire cost
3/ You can limit numbers on the street.
4/You can, by default, control where they are used.


There are no legal details around cycling, and they can go faster than 15mph. Not sure where your standpoint is (I'm lying with that bit btw)

Last edited by: Zero on Tue 30 Jun 20 at 17:32
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Bromptonaut
>> Not really, its a very shrewd move.
>> 1/ you make sure they are not "modded" above a certain speed limit
>> 2/ 3rd Insurance can be included in the hire cost
>> 3/ You can limit numbers on the street.
>> 4/You can, by default, control where they are used.

It might be but we don't know because they've gone off half cocked and announced this without any of the above being addressed.

AIUI regulation isn't too much favoured by BoJo.

Even if you take the same cheap gibe and mistaken option as NoFM and assume my standpoint is invariably political that doesn't make it invariably wrong. Boris's own side are divided on whether he's got the skills. Some might say his performance at the FO amply demonstrated that the Peter Principle.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 30 Jun 20 at 17:57
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Zero

>> Even if you take the same cheap gibe and mistaken option as NoFM and assume
>> my standpoint is invariably political

My cheap jibe was not political, but rather your radical "no control regulation or safety requirements for anything on two wheels" standpoint.


>>that doesn't make it invariably wrong. Boris's own side are
>> divided on whether he's got the skills.

But maybe I was wrong, your viewpoint is indeed political after all. I was mistaken.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - PeterS
>> >> Not really, its a very shrewd move.
>> >> 1/ you make sure they are not "modded" above a certain speed limit
>> >> 2/ 3rd Insurance can be included in the hire cost
>> >> 3/ You can limit numbers on the street.
>> >> 4/You can, by default, control where they are used.
>>
>> It might be but we don't know because they've gone off half cocked and announced
>> this without any of the above being addressed.
>>

The alternative being waiting until civil servants have spent weeks saying it can’t be done, agonising over detail, drafting and redrafting papers until, in 2021, it’s ready. Approximately 6 months too late to deal with the issue. I’ve seen ‘Yes Minister’ ;)
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Fullchat
There are already stated cases classifying those scooters with a little engine on the back 'Mechanically Propelled Vehicles' as 'Motor Vehicles' with all that comes with that classification.

Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles were given an exemption providing they were limited to 15.5 MPH.

Minefield.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/powered-transporters/information-sheet-guidance-on-powered-transporters
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - No FM2R
We seek laws which must address and resolve every conceivable variation or combination of situation or behaviour but we are terrified of them over-stepping the mark or being misused.

We also live in a society where scapegoats are essential and, like pass the parcel at a children's party, if you were the last one to touch the law before the music stopped, you will be vilified by the media in front of the baying crowds and reasonableness, best effort or good intentions will not help you at all.

Glad it's not my job.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - No FM2R
>> Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads from Saturday
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53219331
>>


"The DfT said in a statement that the regulations only cover rental schemes "to avoid a flood of poor-quality scooters onto the streets". "

Seems a reasonable point, there are some extremely rubbish scooters around.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Fullchat
I'd be concerned with the scenario where someone sustains some major injury through being hit by one and how that will pan out.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Tue 30 Jun 20 at 21:04
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - No FM2R
Absolutely.

And it is an issue here, but they just ignore it.

On car insurance the legal minimum for TP insurance is £20,000. (might be £30,000) That won't pay for most cars, never mind injuries.

So scooter insurance just isn't even a thing.

What's done at the moment in the UK if a cyclist injures/kills someone?
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Fullchat
Best you'll get is a civil case with all that entails.

I watched a programme about mobility scooters which are likewise not compulsory insured. One lady got cleaned out, had to sell her house.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - No FM2R
Suing somebody for a such a thing here is verging on the impossible. And even if you do it will take a very long time, you won't get much of an award even if you do win, and then the other person won't pay anyway.

It's brutal.

 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - zippy
>> Best you'll get is a civil case with all that entails.
>>
>> I watched a programme about mobility scooters which are likewise not compulsory insured. One lady
>> got cleaned out, had to sell her house.
>>

There was a case with an old bod on a mobility scooter who ran down a toddler and refused to stop!

I found this one but I am sure there are instances where more serious harm has been done: www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/hit-run-mobility-scooter-rider-14573661

Perhaps compulsory insurance for all such vehicles.

I had one head down a road then do a 90 degree turn on to a zebra crossing without warning. Lucky he didn't get totalled!
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - PeterS
>>
>> What's done at the moment in the UK if a cyclist injures/kills someone?
>>

Practically speaking, nothing. Which is why a minority act with impunity. There’s no way of identifying them if they don’t stop, and if they do stop no requirement to have insurance. They are also no road traffic offences that they can be charged with in the situation of injury or death. Though there was one case reasonably recently where a cyclist was charged with manslaughter after killing a pedestrian. But I suspect the family were unable to sue for much in the way of compensation...he was, from memory, a teenager.
Last edited by: PeterS on Tue 30 Jun 20 at 22:23
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - No FM2R
I wonder why it would be so difficult to compel all road users to have liability insurance, be they horse, bicycle, scooter or anything else.

Or their parents in the case of minor.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Terry
We are all responsible in law for our actions - whether driving a vehicle of some sort or not.

For cars the law insists on insurance, MoT and car tax and criminal sanctions apply. For electric bikes there are no licence, insurance, tax or other impositions providing the speed is limited. There are however still civil remedies.

The argument that rental companies will only rent high quality scooters is plain flawed. The race to the lowest price will ensure that many companies will rent out cheap machines.

It is unclear whether anything will distinguish a rental scooter from one that is privately owned. Different colour? The idea that the police will stop and check documents is risible.

Finally, complaining bitterly that the proposals are ill thought through is nothing more than a ploy to delay (indefinitely?).

One reason why Boris wants to overhaul the Civil Service and Whitehall is that they are consumate professionals in finding barriers to change. As with Brexit (which ever side you took) Boris wants to "take back control" and get things done rather more quickly.

Delay rarely makes decisions better but it does add to cost, uncertainty and wasted effort - eg: airport expansion, HS2, Crossrail, etc. The main benefit from delay is to allow the government to announce a project many times over (as if it's a new idea) rather than just once!
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - No FM2R
>>The argument that rental companies will only rent high quality scooters is plain flawed. The
>>race to the lowest price will ensure that many companies will rent out cheap machines.

That is the case here. The rental scooters are reliable, hold a good charge, have a good range and feel safe to be on with effective brakes and stable steering.

Conversely there is some right cack for sale in the shops. I have tried scooters with inadequate brakes, dodgy steering, awful stability etc. etc.

Whether or not the same will happen in the UK , I have no idea.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Ambo
Whether or not, the accident rate is surely bound to increase if hoards of these bugs start to mix in with traffic.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Fursty Ferret
>> Practically speaking, nothing.

Well, cars have number plates and insurance, and drivers have to take a test, but the law isn't enforced there either. So there's no benefit to extending it to cyclists especially when you consider that the number of pedestrians killed or injured by bikes is so tiny that it's insignificant compared to motorised vehicles.

There's no point criticising cyclists for running red lights when as a proportion far more drivers than cyclists commit the offence. A green man on a pedestrian crossing means nothing.

I have a fair amount of experience riding an eScooter. Take it from me that you're more likely to injure yourself on one of them than anyone else. Keeping an eye out for silent vehicles should require a degree of common sense.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - martin aston
If a driver is injured the NHS can recoup some costs from the insurer of the party at fault. There is no such option for recovering costs from uninsured scooters.

The latest figures are for 2019 when the NHS recovered £200m from insurers.
 Rental e-scooters to be made legal on UK roads - Lygonos
>> The latest figures are for 2019 when the NHS recovered £200m from insurers.

And in a roundabout and no doubt not very efficient way, so the cost to all drivers will be more than £200m, plus the cost to the NHS paying for administrators to reclaim this money in the first place will mean it is worth less than £200m to the end user (us receiving treatment).




Latest Forum Posts