Non-motoring > Ping Zero Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Bromptonaut Replies: 80

 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
IIRC your caravan is a Swift Basecamp.

Are you aware of the issue with Whale water heaters in this and other models?

www.whalepumps.com/rv/news-item.aspx?

Crossed my sights 'cos some Elddis models are affected.
 Ping Zero - Zero
Ta, Yes its a Basecamp, yes aware of the Whale Heater issue, mine is not affected.
 Ping Zero - Zero
And its not a Caravan, its a Crossover Camping Vehicle
 Ping Zero - R.P.
And its not a Caravan, its a Crossover Camping Vehicle

Hahahahah...

Were you in north Wales this last week
 Ping Zero - Zero
No, but I shall be in South Wales next month in the crossover camping vehicle, and a couple of trips to mid wales later int he month to pick up my new puppy.
 Ping Zero - No FM2R
>>to pick up my new puppy.

Have you worn the old one out already?
 Ping Zero - Zero
Its 8 years old and its been round the block
 Ping Zero - No FM2R
8??

Has it been so long? I thought it was like 3 or 4.

Where does my life go.
 Ping Zero - sooty123
>> 8??
>>
>> Has it been so long? I thought it was like 3 or 4.
>>
>> Where does my life go.
>>

I think it was a second hand model.
 Ping Zero - Duncan
>> to pick up
>> my new puppy.
>>

What make and model are you getting?
 Ping Zero - Zero
Golden Retriever, Bitch, the mother has the same father as my existing dog, so very similar breeding lines. 1/3 show lines 2/3 working lines.
 Ping Zero - Duncan
Does that make them Great Aunt and Great Niece? Or cousins?
 Ping Zero - Zero
>> Does that make them Great Aunt and Great Niece? Or cousins?

no idea, can't work it out, is there some kind of on line family relationship calculator?
 Ping Zero - Zero
Ok I think the new pup will be my dogs niece.

 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
>> Ok I think the new pup will be my dogs niece.

That was my conclusion too.

It can get complicated though. Two of Mrs B's relatives who are second cousins (ie their respective Mothers were first cousins) took up together. Their son is also their cousin.....

Family relationships are further complicated by fact that male half of the partnership above and brother of the female half were previously married to a pair of sisters.
 Ping Zero - tyrednemotional
..that should have increased the average digit count of the family somewhat.... ;-)
 Ping Zero - Zero
>> ..that should have increased the average digit count of the family somewhat.... ;-)

They'll need the extra digit to play the banjo.......
 Ping Zero - Duncan
>> ..that should have increased the average digit count of the family somewhat.... ;-)
>>

Beat me to it!
 Ping Zero - Runfer D'Hills
>> ..that should have increased the average digit count of the family somewhat.... ;-)

NFN ( Normal For Norfolk ) but, it now seems Northamptonshire can be included. ;-)
 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
>> ..that should have increased the average digit count of the family somewhat.... ;-)

They considered this before trying for a child. Apparently second cousins are not a problem individually; different of such relationships are common as the gene pool gets a bit too shallow.
 Ping Zero - sooty123
I don't think I followed any of that, mind boggling. Something in the water is there?
 Ping Zero - R.P.
Glimpsed from the motorcycle seat was CCV being towed by a newish 5 Series. It looks quite good in the metal
 Ping Zero - tyrednemotional
...good Lord, does that mean two people have bought one......
 Ping Zero - R.P.
:-)
 Ping Zero - Zero
>> Glimpsed from the motorcycle seat was CCV being towed by a newish 5 Series. It
>> looks quite good in the metal

Someone tows the CCV with a panamera.
 Ping Zero - Runfer D'Hills
I've driven a Panamera several times ( my boss used to have one ) they are a delight to drive, but horrific to behold. Unlike a caravan, which is not so binary. ;-)
 Ping Zero - Bobby
You going to be breeding her?

Have heard that puppies are going for absolutely silly prices just now. Neighbours Lhasa apso has had two litters this year. 14 pups in total. Probably close to £25k I am guessing they will have made.
 Ping Zero - Zero
>> You going to be breeding her?

No - too old for such hassle - me that is
>> Have heard that puppies are going for absolutely silly prices just now. Neighbours Lhasa apso
>> has had two litters this year. 14 pups in total. Probably close to £25k I
>> am guessing they will have made.

Guess again, fancy breed pups are going for 3k to 3.5k a pop.
 Ping Zero - R.P.
Next door (farmers) got a runt of the litter Lab. over the lockdown. Dog's fallen on its feet with a fleet of kids to play with - it was caught jumping on the trampoline the other day. What a lovely little dog it is.....doubt whether they paid much for it.
 Ping Zero - Zero
Got mine from a breeder I checked out (she in turn vetted me before I was approved to go on her list), I know the breeding lines of both parents (a huge list of working trial, field trial, champions in there) and the health scores (hips eyes etc etc) are excellent, and I am lucky to be only paying £1800 quid....
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 11:54
 Ping Zero - Runfer D'Hills
Eighteen hundred quid?

Fer a dug? Sheesh !

:-(
 Ping Zero - sooty123
>> Eighteen hundred quid?
>>
>> Fer a dug? Sheesh !
>>
>> :-(
>>

Not that much at all for them. Ours was 600 quid 7 years ago, now they are selling for x4 that amount. I know (of) someone who spent 4k+ on a gun dog trained spaniel and that was 4 years ago, no idea what they'd be now.
 Ping Zero - Zero

>> Not that much at all for them. Ours was 600 quid 7 years ago, now
>> they are selling for x4 that amount. I know (of) someone who spent 4k+ on
>> a gun dog trained spaniel and that was 4 years ago, no idea what they'd
>> be now.

We used to sell part trained dogs to the police for 5-6k and that was 15 years ago. I had a chance at a good litter of springers a month or three back, pups were £1,200.
 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
IIRC (from daughter/her in laws) the price for their Show Cockers was higher if you intended to breed from them. Daughter's dog and in law's bitch both neutered.
 Ping Zero - sooty123
>> IIRC (from daughter/her in laws) the price for their Show Cockers was higher if you
>> intended to breed from them. Daughter's dog and in law's bitch both neutered.
>>

You mean the breeders had them neutered before selling them?
 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
>> You mean the breeders had them neutered before selling them?

No, they were neutered later when age appropriate. The agreement to neuter and not breed was presumably contractual.
 Ping Zero - Zero
>> >> You mean the breeders had them neutered before selling them?
>>
>> No, they were neutered later when age appropriate. The agreement to neuter and not breed
>> was presumably contractual.

There is no "contract" when you buy a dog, its a sale not a lease. You can do what you like. Which is why good breeders vet purchasers.
 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
>> There is no "contract" when you buy a dog, its a sale not a lease.
>> You can do what you like.

Surely there is a contract of sale?

Even if it's unwritten there will be some implied terms. Is the animal as described for example.

If I sell you land there is a contract of sale. I may make that contract subject to conditions, for example specifying how it is developed. If you fail to observe those conditions (covenants) I may have a cause of action.

The Kennel Club provides a specimen contract for the sale of a puppy.

 Ping Zero - Zero
Yes there is a contract of sale. You'll need one for insurance purposes, However under English law there is no way you could have a contractual term that says" I agree to have invasive surgery on, and bits of my dog removed on and before a specified date"

You can however sign a contract under the lines "not for profit" or "breeder has rights on on any puppies" But none of it is really enforceable.

I understand the sentiments of breeders who want to make sure any of their pups don't end up on puppy farms as breeding bitches, but the best they can do is to make sure you will never get a dog from any other breeder ever again (there is a breeders network)
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 14:37
 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
>> The Kennel Club provides a specimen contract for the sale of a puppy.

Another source specifically mentions a contract with restrictions on breeding:

www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/puppy-sale-contracts-and-what-they-should-contain.html
 Ping Zero - Zero
>> >> The Kennel Club provides a specimen contract for the sale of a puppy.
>>
>> Another source specifically mentions a contract with restrictions on breeding:

All that does is prevent you from putting any pups on the breeding register, you can enter any dog on the sporting register.
 Ping Zero - sooty123
>> >> You mean the breeders had them neutered before selling them?
>>
>> No, they were neutered later when age appropriate. The agreement to neuter and not breed
>> was presumably contractual.
>>

Probably more of a gentlemen's agreement, rather than anything legal.
 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
>> Probably more of a gentlemen's agreement, rather than anything legal.

We visited the daughter's in laws, they were friends long before our respective kids were born never mind got together, at a time when their Cocker bitch was an appealing splother footed puppy. One of those I'm not a dog person but moments....

At some stage there was a discussion about how much the dog cost (several hundred but less than a thousand) and(IIRC) that they would have had to pay more if they'd bought it intending to breed.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 14:28
 Ping Zero - devonite
I wouldn't pay that for a "Muttley"! - plenty of good 'uns in shelters need homes!

All this selective breeding for show purposes have deformed and mutilated many many animals all in the name of vanity, Money and a few pieces of worthless paper! - Didn't the BBC stop showing Cruft's on TV in a stance on just this very point ISTR?
 Ping Zero - Zero
Very much agree with you, there are some gruesome medical abominations in the Breed world.

However, mine is the sporting side of the dog world, dogs are chosen and bred for their capabilities, temperament to task, and their ability to perform over the majority of their lives.

 Ping Zero - sooty123
an appealing
>> splother footed puppy. One of those I'm not a dog person but moments....

Splother?


>>
>> At some stage there was a discussion about how much the dog cost (several hundred
>> but less than a thousand) and(IIRC) that they would have had to pay more if
>> they'd bought it intending to breed.

I'm sure there was a discussion, a gentleman's agreement if you like.
 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
>> Splother?

Splay footed, not (not yet in case of a puppy) fully co-ordinated on feet, perhaps falling over own feet. Might also apply to a newborn calf, lamb or fawn. Or a drunk. A word from my childhood. Thinking about it probably Mother's side.

Research just now suggests it's Yorkshire dialect with similar usage in Lancashire and Cheshire. Mum was West Riding.


>> I'm sure there was a discussion, a gentleman's agreement if you like.

I was referring to a discussion at the gathering where we first met the puppy. Along similar lines to here; you paid HOW much......

Having checked further it seems 'no breeding' is a standard condition, presumably around the pedigree. Neutering was choice of owner.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 16:02
 Ping Zero - sooty123
Research just now suggests it Yorkshire dialect with similar usage in Lancashire and Cheshire. Mum
>> was West Riding.


So I am, not heard that one before.
>>
>


>> I was referring to a discussion at the gathering where we first met the puppy.
>> Along similar lines to here; you paid HOW much......

Yeap, not a cheap business dogs, out of curiosity how much did you think the dog would be?
 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
>> Yeap, not a cheap business dogs, out of curiosity how much did you think the
>> dog would be?

I guess a bit under £500. It was £750 or thereabouts.

We had three neighbours (one moved over the summer) with Cockerpoos. Two of them Ziggy and Freddy, would often be out playing together in the cul de sac while Clap for Carers was on. Equally happy to come over to have a pet and a tummy tickle.

Another of my I'm not a dog person but moments......

Cockerpoos around a grand each it seems.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 16:11
 Ping Zero - sooty123

>> I guess a bit under £500. It was £750 or thereabouts.


How long ago was this?
>>

>> Cockerpoos around a grand each it seems.
>>

Not a fan of the cockerpoo thing tbh.
 Ping Zero - Zero

>> Not a fan of the cockerpoo thing tbh.

The labradoodle is fab, they have managed to breed a dog that entirely consists of the worse parts of two breed, and completely miss the original requirement.
 Ping Zero - Zero
You cant put a cockerpoo on the KC breed register anyway, they dont accept Mongrels on there.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 13 Sep 20 at 20:48
 Ping Zero - Runfer D'Hills
Wish I was one of those clever people who know how to post photos on here. My dog is sitting at my feet at the moment under my desk. He knows that I'll be taking him out shortly, and has brought his ball that he takes on walks. He's just staring at me unblinkingly, and I'm quite sure if he had a watch on that he'd be tapping it in reprimand and nodding towards the door.
 Ping Zero - Duncan
Zero, do you let your dogs go in the canal?
 Ping Zero - Zero
yes, blue algae is rarely an issue in the basingstoke canal, but if it does they have a good system of spotters
 Ping Zero - bathtub tom
Best dog I ever had was a springer from a farming community. She was the the fourth surviving runt from a litter of six who's bitch's milk had dried up (two had died). Took her at four weeks old.

Took a lot of care initially. She was mainly liver and a small dog. Subsequently learned the local community didn't want her around as she'd be a 'poachers' dog.

She arrived between the birth of my two daughters. They all seemed to think they were equal sisters. I've a wonderful photo of them all sitting on the kitchen floor with glasses of milk and biscuits. The children would no more think of pinching her biscuit as she would of theirs. They were distraught in their teenage years when she died.

Took her back to her roots and she was tried out with a twelve bore, didn't flinch, but merely scanned the sky. She and her brother would run around the fields and if one raised a rabbit, it would bark to alert the other and they'd try to work together to catch it - never did.

I was offered large sums for her, I guess for nefarious reasons.

She spent a lot of her life 'parking' squirrels up trees in the local woods a couple of times a day - they'd never come down and play despite her plaintive barks. I could walk her through the local streets at heel without a lead, she was a doddle to train. We were, apparently, a local sight.

Never had a dog like her before or since and now, never will.
 Ping Zero - Bromptonaut
>> You cant put a cockerpoo on the KC breed register anyway, they dont accept Mongrels
>> on there.

Aye but it's the Mongrels that lead interesting lives:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHgNydyvI44
 Ping Zero - Bobby
Re £1800, any idea Zero if the equivalent price would have been cheaper pre Covid?
 Ping Zero - Zero
>> Re £1800, any idea Zero if the equivalent price would have been cheaper pre Covid?

I would suspect the price I pay will be inflated by about a third. Bear in mind a Champion sheepdog sold for £20k earlier this year, an average price pre covid was about £2k.

The massive price increase has been for designer "breeds" for the home.
 Ping Zero - R.P.
Jeez, my Working Cocker from an impressive line of Field Champions cost me £400.00 in 2008.
 Ping Zero - sooty123
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54115646

Puppy prices on the rise.
 Ping Zero - Pezzer
Friends working for a Spaniel charity are in despair of all the returns (and people thinking they will get their money back). They wonder why the puppy is getting separation anxiety when left now that the humans are returning to work!
 Ping Zero - Zero
Now is the time to buy my online diploma and start work as a "K9 Behaviourist"

I have my strap line already, "Zero your Pooch"
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 18 Sep 20 at 09:19
 Ping Zero - Runfer D'Hills
@Zero, I'd be interested in your take on this given your specialist interest.

My dog has a lead, but it hardly gets used, other than if we're in a busy town centre or something. The rest of the time he just walks beside me off the lead. He's very good and will stop, return, sit, or lie down on command. If it's safe for him to run or mooch he'll wait for permission and come back or stop if told.

I sometimes ( quite often these days it seems ) encounter people walking their cockadoodledoos or whatever genetic mix up they've bought to go with their laminate floors, grey walls and SUV, with the poor animal totally restrained on a lead even if they're in the middle of a forest or miles up a canal towpath well away from traffic. Some of them seem really nervous of a loose dog, despite his good behaviour ( he'll never approach another dog without permission ) and I've even been scolded by some for not having him restrained!

I choose to ignore these people and can only imagine that they are not very experienced in managing their pets.

I don't claim any special expertise either to be fair, all I can bring is a lifetime of being around dogs.

Now, I have a theory that these people who are unnecessarily restraining their dogs and not allowing them to socialise ( under supervision ) are doing them more of a disservice than a favour.

What's your view?
 Ping Zero - bathtub tom
>> My dog has a lead, but it hardly gets used,

Exactly! The last two dogs I had were the same. Choke chain and trained in the school of Barbara Woodhouse. Probably be reported to the RSPCA nowadays.
I despair when I see dogs pulling against the sort of body warmers they wear nowadays. There's a couple near me who have two leads on their obese Lab in order to hold it back from attacking any dog it sees.
 Ping Zero - Runfer D'Hills
My dad was very good with dogs, different times of course, but I might have followed his ways a bit. I don't tend to start them off on a lead even as puppies, ( except in circumstances where it would be dangerous of course ) but I try to get them used to being off very early on. Treats and praise for good behaviour, rather than punishment for bad sort of thing. Dunno if that's the right way, but it's what I've always done.
 Ping Zero - sooty123
> I despair when I see dogs pulling against the sort of body warmers they wear
>> nowadays. There's a couple near me who have two leads on their obese Lab in
>> order to hold it back from attacking any dog it sees.
>>

What is it with them, are those harness things some sort of fashion item?
 Ping Zero - Zero
>> >> My dog has a lead, but it hardly gets used,
>>
>> Exactly! The last two dogs I had were the same. Choke chain and trained in
>> the school of Barbara Woodhouse. Probably be reported to the RSPCA nowadays.

Compulsive training like that works, and quickly, but its lazy and produces a lacklustre dog lacking in initiative joy and spirit.
 Ping Zero - bathtub tom
>> Compulsive training like that works, and quickly, but its lazy and produces a lacklustre dog
>> lacking in initiative joy and spirit.

I'll dispute that. The last two dogs I had could never be described as 'lacking in initiative joy and spirit'. In fact the last one had to be walked on a lead for the last of her days as she had a heart condition that caused her brain to 'switch off' and she'd drop in mid stride like she'd been shot.
 Ping Zero - Zero
You cant dispute that, you have no idea how much better your dog would have been had it been trained in a different way, because you didn't and it wasn't.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 21 Sep 20 at 13:28
 Ping Zero - Zero
>Now, I have a theory that these people who are unnecessarily restraining their dogs and not >allowing them to socialise ( under supervision ) are doing them more of a disservice than a >favour.

>What's your view?

You are fundamentally correct, its all down to poor socialisation and inconsistent training or boundaries as a young pup. The mum will put some boundary training into the pup, the pack will socialise, and owners unravel the whole thing as soon as the pup gets home. You cant blame the owners, they know no better, and it is a process, work that needs to be put in and done correctly.

Like yours, my dog is off lead most of the time. She has earned the right to mooch about sniff and forage, in short be a dog, because I know she will stay, recall, or walk to heel on command 99% of the time when I need her to, mainly to keep her safe.

I could weep with joy when you get the training to the point of controlling prey drive. She'll see a rabbit or scent a grouse, and give me a quick glance for permission to go. Sometimes I let her away after it, knowing I can call her back in the middle of hot pursuit or hunt. Her life as, and ability to be, a dog is immeasurably improved by her training.
 Ping Zero - God
Farm next to our olde quintessential Cornish country cottidge bin knocking out hybrids all Covid long for £2k.

Their (his) daddy (another farmer!) reckons he's made £100k in 12 months from breeding gods.
 Ping Zero - R.P.
Had to euthanize my 14 year old Working Cocker on Wednesday. I am bereft. I knew the end was near but he appears to have had a stroke on Tuesday night. His spirit had broken in the last few days. Apart from when I was away, i've never really been separated from him. We've been through some pretty dark times together. I keep looking or listening out for him. He was a character, he had a few "bites" one a very senior Police Officer...One knows that this is on the cards of course, the last few weeks he had become increasingly "not himself". Swear blind I'll never get another. We have the Springer of course, but it's really strange at the moment.
 Ping Zero - Runfer D'Hills
Sorry to hear that RP, it's never good. I guess I just try to remember that, for a dog, any life that gets into double figures is not a bad innings, and if he was a happy dog, and a good companion to you, then it was a good wee life.

My "best mate" is nearly ten now, still lively enough but he was very poorly with pancreatitis earlier this year and now has to be on a fairly strict diet. Some days he shows his age, but on others he's still like a pup. I'll take it badly when his time comes, one of the best dogs I've ever had in truth.

Actually, he's just wandered in to my office right now, I expect he's thinking it must be getting close to his lunchtime walk... ;-)
 Ping Zero - God
Milo has bin gorn 5 years now - we still think about him on a regular basis. We got Cody the Engerlish Ponter before he went, then got Beau the Beauceron shortly afterwards.

Milo was ready to go - hind legs went, incontinent. He was 15 which is a good age for a Rhodesian Backridge.
 Ping Zero - bathtub tom
>>Had to euthanize my 14 year old Working Cocker on Wednesday.

Had to do that with my aged Springer. Found her walking in circles in the garden, completely out of it. The vet made it easy - she's had enough, hasn't she, he said at a very cursory look (old school). Do dogs get Alzheimers?
She grew up with my daughters who were distraught.
 Ping Zero - Robin O'Reliant
Mrs O'Reliant had her horse put down last week, a Welsh Cob she bought twenty years ago at age eight. She's been distraught ever since.

It isn't pleasant when you have to take the decision with an animal, but any dog owner will know that facing it one day will be inevitable. At least we can take comfort that they have a better ending than most humans, who are left to slowly rot to death in discomfort and misery.
 Ping Zero - Zero

>> Do dogs get Alzheimers?

Yup, a form of. Just as distressing as the human variety.
 Ping Zero - Zero
>> Had to euthanize my 14 year old Working Cocker on Wednesday. I am bereft.

You have my sympathies, been there, - it's tough.
 Ping Zero - zippy
RP, so very sorry to hear this.

Until we got our dog I never realised what a large part it would play in our lives.

My thoughts are with you.

 Ping Zero - R.P.
There was an "event" in August Bank Holiday 2019 - he seemed to have overheated and was "ill" overnight - he seemed ok the next day, but I noticed a decline in his cognitive behaviour, he'd often walk the wrong way or get "lost" on walks - his eyesight was failing no doubt. It was a steady decline. My sense of loss is very big, but I remember him as a remarkably astute dog, with superb athletic abilities; best remembered that way I guess - all very sad, I have bouts of "loss" but comfort myself that he's not in any pain or distress any more. He meant an awful lot to me and his welfare was always primary in my mind. We're off on holiday tomorrow and it will be very odd with only one dog in tow. Life goes on and is full of little adjustments now.
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