Non-motoring > Coronavirus - Volume 26
Thread Author: VxFan Replies: 132

 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - VxFan

Ongoing debate.

614914
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 16 Oct 20 at 10:58
 Portugal - now calamity status - smokie
Here in sunny Portugal the govt has moved the level to Calamity, which is as high as it goes. I don't think it will make much difference to my hols although they are going to look at altering a law so you have to wear a mask when out in the street (quite a few here do anyway).

The Algarve is the safer part of Portugal and we are still not really doing anything more risky than we'd be doing at home. No beach in Wokingham but the one here is pretty empty, especially on the weekdays. We're thinking we might eat out one evening this week but if we arrive somewhere and don't like the vibe we just won't bother. We've already out one of our favourite beach bars off limits as the tables weren't very well distanced.

We've been walking most days but have been put off the countryside a bit as I was very close to being savaged by a loose and rather large and aggressive dog last week - it snarled and barked at me right close up (i meant within two feet) for what felt like 5 minutes but was certainly at least minute. I fell at one point when backing off and I thought my days were numbered. The owners came along and it wouldn't even obey their command initially, then the woman had the absolute cheek to say I had made it worse. I was already literally shocked into silence (and I really don't frighten easily) so didn't argue back. (Remember I asked in March what action to take if it happened, following close encounters with other mutts while on walks...).
 Portugal - now calamity status - Duncan
>>Remember I asked in March what action to take if it happened, following close encounters with >> other mutts while on walks...).
>>

I don't remember, but I may well have said 'buy one of these'.

www.amazon.co.uk/Dog-Dazer-II-Ultrasonic-Deterrent/dp/B000IBRI2Y

Did I, and did you?

45 quid now!!
 Portugal - now calamity status - Duncan
Too late for the edit.

It's like deja vu, all over again, again!

www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=27670&m=602864&v=e
 Portugal - now calamity status - sooty123
>> 45 quid now!!

Did you use it? What did you think of it?
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 15 Oct 20 at 10:48
 Portugal - now calamity status - smokie
You did, and I didn't. Wish I had!! :-(

I'm short of Christmas present request ideas this year, so maybe that's one.
 Portugal - now calamity status - God
Some owners train their gods to be as nasty as possible for guard duties. When we lived in Tenerife, our apartment used to look out over the roof of a cash-and-carry place (where I used to get my wheat beer) They had a ferocious Canarian Mastiff chained up on the roof all day (from a pup!) and used to let it loose at night.

I teased it one day (as you would) through the high gates - he did his job okay!!

Bit of advice I was given when I picked up a GSD (with issues!) from a rescue centre back in the day was:

KEEP YA HANDS IN YA POCKETS AND DON'T LOOK 'IM IN THE EYE ... nuff sed.
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - God
On a positive note - nobody has died of 'old age' since March.

:)
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Duncan
The good people of Esher - and elsewhere - can't travel to Wales from Saturday?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54551596

Well, I mean!
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Zero
>> The good people of Esher - and elsewhere - can't travel to Wales from Saturday?
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54551596
>>
>> Well, I mean!

Yeah well, Us `Runnymede" folks alway knew you Elmbridge wallah's were a bit iffy. Lucy that as I have just come back from Wales today, and planning to go back next week to pick up the new puppy.
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Robin O'Reliant
>> I have just come back from Wales today, and planning to go back
>> next week to pick up the new puppy.
>>

Or maybe not. The Welsh Assembly are expected to announce a two week lockdown on Monday.
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Zero
>> Or maybe not. The Welsh Assembly are expected to announce a two week lockdown on
>> Monday.

The Hedllu cant patrol every back road.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 17 Oct 20 at 21:17
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - legacylad
Have it sent by DPD.

Dozy puppy dog
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Zero
there is nowt dozy about my new pup.
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - No FM2R
>>The Hedllu cant patrol every back road.

Indeed, though it can be tricky to work out which ones they are and which they are not.

Do UK registrations numbers still have any geographic significance?
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Lygonos
>>Do UK registrations numbers still have any geographic significance?

Yes*. I suspect Zed's "camouflage green" Bimmer might be able to sneak past though.

* www.newreg.co.uk/dvla-number-plate-identifiers/

 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Robin O'Reliant
>>
>>
>> Do UK registrations numbers still have any geographic significance?
>>

They do, and it is much easier to work out than it used to be. In any case, a quick check of the number will instantly sow the registered keepers address.
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Rudedog
Yes but no!

My new car starts EF as it was registered in Essex but I'm in London/Kent boarder, surely the way cars are bought now means you couldn't use it as a way of restricting movement.

 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Bromptonaut
The local prefix in Northants is K but that also extends to Milton Keynes and Bedfordshire. Walk around a local car park, or glance round our road and whilst K reggies predominate there are plenty of others.

Miss B and her husband live in locked down Flint. Their cars are W (bought when they lived in Plymouth) and D - over the border in Cheshire/Deeside. The Lad is in tier 3 Liverpool but his car hails from N London (LS) and is still registered in Northants.

He has been reminded that now he has his own place there he should change it but, like imprecations to check his oil, it's in one ear/out the other.
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Zero
The camo machine has a personal plat, so carries an Essex registration of early 80s vintage, but that carries no weight these days, its all about ANPR. ANPR will reveal a registered keeper from a tier 1 risk area. IF the plate gets zapped.

Hopefully it will be a 35 minute dash into forbidden dragon country, and a 35 minute dash back to the country where they "have taken back control"

 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - No FM2R
Oh if there is a God someone will catch it on CCTV and put it on YouTube.....

"Grumpy git busted smuggling dogs in lock down by 19yr old copper".
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Zero
Hope the pup P***es on his uniform and chews his tetra radio
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Zero
As Dunc is now in a high risk area and can't travel, shouldn't he be banned from coming here? Don't want him spreading his virus to our computers.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 17 Oct 20 at 10:36
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Duncan
Has anybody got a bell they could lend me? I could ring it before i start typing.
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - R.P.
Unless you're in a COVID hotspot, there's no restriction (atm) on you entering Wales. Look out for farmers on the back roads though, they're not taking kindly to incomers these days
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Kevin
>Look out for farmers on the back roads though, they're not taking kindly to incomers these days.

He just needs to tell them he's picking up a new four-legged furry companion ;-)
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - tyrednemotional
>>
>> He just needs to tell them he's picking up a new four-legged furry companion ;-)
>>

....not a good gambit in a Welsh sheep-farming area.....
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Zero
>> Unless you're in a COVID hotspot, there's no restriction (atm) on you entering Wales.

I knows.


(the new puppy is called Nessa)
 Coronavirus - Volume 25 - Zero
So total Welsh lockdown on Friday, collecting pup Wednesday! Phew that was close.
 UK and Rules - Bromptonaut
NoFM mentioned in the previous volume the British need for rules etc.

We're currently on a Caravan and Moho Club site in Derbyshire.

Last time we were out in the caravan was in France. The loos/showers etc were open as normal. Signs explained masks were required and reminded us of social distancing albeit their requirement is 1 metre not 2. There was a one way system and queueing markings but in practice they were not needed. It worked.

Here, in a much larger facility, only 3 of 6 WC cubicles are in use, the rest are taped shut. Only one of 4 urinals is available (though all continue to flush at regular intervals). Only one in three shower cubicles are available. Although there are facilities for around 10 people only four are permitted at one time. In order to control the numbers you're given a wristband at check in with your pitch number on it. There are four pegs outside, you leave your band when you go in and collect it on exit. If four pegs are occupied then you wait in the cold....

I'm already on my second band as when I went outside after using the loo somebody had walked off with the wrong one.

The club loves rules about how you pitch, leaving fire breaks between units (but you park your car in the firebreak!!) etc etc. I think however a lot of this is driven by the 'Covid Safe' accreditation they need to remain open.
 UK and Rules - sooty123
>The club loves rules

I remember someone who was a caravan club member, the Caravan Club would give French Local government a run for it's money.
 UK and Rules - tyrednemotional
>> There are four pegs outside, you leave your band when you go in
>> and collect it on exit. If four pegs are occupied then you wait in the
>> cold....
>>

...you've obviously not worked out that you can leave your band permanently on the hook, and then jump any queue....

;-)
 UK and Rules - Duncan
My cycling group - CTC, although that name is now out of date, we have been for 3 or 4 years now Cycling UK. We are now a charity. Not happy, but that's another story and what's new about me not being happy?

Because Covid all of our breaks - elevenses, lunch and tea must now be taken outdoors. We are just coming into the time of year when it's a bit too cold and/or wet to sit outside. So, I probably won't bother.

The annual sub is going up from £30.50, for over 65, to £48, no discount for age, the only discount is if you are on Pension Credit. So, coupled with the sit outside thing, I probably won't renew.

Just a grumble.
 UK and Rules - Zero
Your caravan has no loo or shower? How how wonderfully retro.
 UK and Rules - Bromptonaut
>> Your caravan has no loo or shower? How how wonderfully retro.

There is a loo and it's used if we need a wee in the night. On the odd occasion we've gone to sites without facilities we've used it for poo as well but prefer not to where there is an option.

According to the spec the Xplore 304 has a shower but even I'd struggle in the space available. Some people fit a longer hose and feed it outside for washing dogs etc. After several instances where ladies rising from the seat caught the control and got soaked I've removed the hose/head and blanked the outlet off.

Since we camped for aeons without shower it's no great loss.
 UK and Rules - Zero
You can take the tent out of the camp site, but you cant take the camper out of the caravan I guess.

Two of us have just spent 6 mights on the rolling hills on the edge of the sea above Saundersfoot in the basecamp. Both of us used the loo and had hot showers every day (not together or at the same time clearly), the small but perfectly designed wash room works like a charm.
 UK and Rules - Bromptonaut
The Basecamp is sold as a 'crossover' and I suspect the more useful washroom reflects it's being pitched at MTB etc types more likely to be off grid. Like bikes caravans are a compromise.

I liked the Basecamp when we saw it at launch and if we were buying what we wanted in 2014 now it would be on my shortlist in the 4 berth iteration. Mrs B and I tend to keep different hours; I tend to both retire later and rise earlier. That lead us to look at models with a dinette which at the time limited us to the Xplore 304 or the Adria Shannon.

Our next 'van is likely to be a bit bigger and with twin beds. The Bailey Unicorn Cadiz appeals.

 UK and Rules - Duncan
>> Both of us used the loo and had hot showers every day (not together or at the same time
>> clearly),

There's no romance in you, is there?
 UK and Rules - tyrednemotional
>> There's no romance in you, is there?
>>

...he omitted mentioning the cold showers.....
 UK and Rules - smokie
From this

www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=19581&m=432334

to this

"Two of us have just spent 6 mights on the rolling hills on the edge of the sea above Saundersfoot in the basecamp. Both of us used the loo and had hot showers every day (not together or at the same time clearly), the small but perfectly designed wash room works like a charm."


Who says a leopard can't change his spots? :-)
 UK and Rules - legacylad
Saundersfoot Zero. That’s a nice part of the world. Late August 2018 I set off from Amroth on the Pembrokeshire coast path. It was raining. Tenby by lunchtime...deserted beaches, every cafe full so I repacked my kit in the church. I can’t remember where I camped that first night, but the weather improved on day 3 and I thoroughly enjoyed walking that coast. Even walking through Pembroke Dock and reading up on the history of the place.
 UK and Rules - No FM2R
A Daily Mail link for you.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5937439/Couple-buy-favourite-beach-250-000.html
 UK and Rules - Zero
>> Saundersfoot Zero. That’s a nice part of the world. Late August 2018 I set off
>> from Amroth on the Pembrokeshire coast path.

We did a wee section (bout 6 miles return) of the PCP, from Abereiddy to Porthgain, and lunch in the Sloop Inn. Porthgain has fascinating fairly recent industrial archaeology.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Kevin
Test and Trace data being given to plod.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54586897

I can see some privacy issues here!
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Bromptonaut
>> I can see some privacy issues here!

The DHSC statement is as follows:

The Department of Health and Social Care has agreed a memorandum of understanding with the National Police Chiefs’ Council to enable police forces to have access on a case-by-case basis to information that enables them to know if a specific individual has been notified to self-isolate.

“The memorandum of understanding ensures that information is shared with appropriate safeguards and in accordance with the law. No testing or health data is shared in this process.


While you could read that as saying Police investigating an allegation of non compliance it does not make clear that Track/Trace cannot take the initiative, perhaps where a person states they will refuse.

The final sentence seems to sail very close to the wind in terms of truth.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Zero
Para 1. and Para 2. are mutually non compatible surely? Certainly contradictory
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123
>> Para 1. and Para 2. are mutually non compatible surely? Certainly contradictory
>>

I read it as they'll say person A has to self isolate but not whether they've actually tested positive, could just be a close contact to someone who has it.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123
Seems a very vague and wolly statement, not doubt written that way on purpose.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Duncan
Everyone's favourite former Prime Minister - Tony Blair - features in the Telegraph -

He broke self-isolation rules it seem, the Telegraph claims.

I am more bothered about him flying to the USA in a private jet, with a squad of coppers paid for by us.
Last edited by: Duncan on Sun 18 Oct 20 at 10:01
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123

>> I am more bothered about him flying to the USA in a private jet, with
>> a squad of coppers paid for by us.
>>

Why does the private jet bother you?
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Zero
I would suspect the private jet is paid for by one of his rich sponsors, but Duncan paid for the coppers, People from poor pox ridden Covid areas don't have money to burn you know.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Terry
China, S Korea, Vietnam etc have very low virus levels due mainly to what we would would regard as an abuse of civil liberties. Non-compliance carries severe consequences.

In the UK, Europe, and the USA we worry interminably about democracy, privacy, freedom etc.

We need to make a clear choice.

Accept civil and personal constraints, back enforcement etc to minimise spread very quickly.

Or carry on as we are - playing a political game, failing to police or discipline those who are selfish or ignorant, assuming that ridiculing rules is somehow a solution etc.

Had the scenes in Liverpool pre Tier 3 happened in Beijing, water canon, rubber bullets, mass arrests etc would follow in short order. They would then step up the response.

It really is a "Brave New World" choice. Freedom to live in often insecure, squalid, disease ridden poverty, or highly regulated comfortable, well fed, warm, safe. Not an easy decision, but not one that can be put off indefinitely.

The idiocy continues.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - devonite
read an interesting fact t'other day: if you are notified to isolate by email or text on your phone /comp, you are only advised to, it is only mandatory if told in person by a track n trace official
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=614894&v=e

Just as a follow up to this, the chap has been fined 1000 quid.


metro.co.uk/2020/10/15/gym-owner-fined-1000-for-refusing-to-close-during-liverpool-lockdown-13425536/
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
It's not clear from that report whether or not he's actually now closed, or the Go Fund me page has paid his fine and he continues opening.

Do you happen to know?
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123
>> It's not clear from that report whether or not he's actually now closed, or the
>> Go Fund me page has paid his fine and he continues opening.
>>
>> Do you happen to know?
>>

Yes they've closed now. The fund hasn't paid anything as the fines aren't due yet. I believe it's been taken up by the local MPs and so questions are being asked in HoC next week.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
People need to do two things;

1) Be far more responsible about their behaviour and the precautions they take.

2) Get back to their normal lives as far as possible.

And to me that means the gym should be allowed to open.

The goal should be protecting the vulnerable, not stopping the lives of the other 99.9% on the planet.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Zero
>> read an interesting fact t'other day: if you are notified to isolate by email or
>> text on your phone /comp, you are only advised to, it is only mandatory if
>> told in person by a track n trace official

Because by text or email, there is no proof you have been notified.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
I find it sad that people should need telling.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Bromptonaut
Per previous volume I've got the Track/Trace App on my phone as has Mrs B.

I've used it a couple of times to check in to places including the garage where I took the Fabia for its annual service. Mrs B uses it at the gym.

Last weekend we were at the Caravan and MoHo club site at Buxton. We were invited to use the Q-code to check in.

Preferred not to. We were all in our own caravans. We only shared the washblock and that was on restricted numbers, we even washed up in the 'van.

Our place was on pitch 8, I wasn't prepared to risk having to self isolate because the guy down the other end on pitch 70 reported contact with Covid.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Manatee
Exactly. I keep out of everyone's way as far as I can and TBH if I was told to self-isolate I probably wouldn't - although the warning would make me especially careful not to get near others.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - sooty123
If you aren't too confident in the app why bother downloading it?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 23 Oct 20 at 02:43
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Bromptonaut
>> If you aren't too confident in the app why bother downloading it?

I'm confident that it functions.

If it says I need to self isolate because I shared the service observation/waiting room at Northampton Skoda, maybe 10 metres square, with somebody who has tested positive I'll isolate; that's life.

If I've shared a campsite of several hectares with people in their own caravans and somebody in a 'van 400 metres away reports positive that's a bit different.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - sooty123
Not quite sure i get that, but each to their own
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Zero
>
>> >> Preferred not to. We were all in our own caravans. We only shared the
>> washblock
>> >> and that was on restricted numbers,
>> >> Our place was on pitch 8, I wasn't prepared to risk having to self
>> isolate
>> >> because the guy down the other end on pitch 70 reported contact with Covid.

And he might well have used the shared washroom 5 minutes before you.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Zero
>> Per previous volume I've got the Track/Trace App on my phone as has Mrs B.
>>
>>
>> I've used it a couple of times to check in to places including the garage
>> where I took the Fabia for its annual service. Mrs B uses it at the
>> gym.
>>
>> Last weekend we were at the Caravan and MoHo club site at Buxton. We were
>> invited to use the Q-code to check in.
>>
>> Preferred not to.

I think you should stop wasting everyones time and remove the app then. There you are picking and choosing how you use the tools there to help the cause and on the other hand slaging off those who are providing it for doing a bad job.

What a huge slice of hypocrisy.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Terry
The app exists because Boris and Matt said it would help control the virus. The algorithms for exposure time, risk and distance are somewhat questionable.

Whether it actually does anything useful is somewhat debatable - having the app is voluntary, as is using it to check in at different locations. And you can switch it off if you want to ignore what it's saying.

It might be a game changer but concerns over civil liberties means functionality is limited.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Bromptonaut
>> I think you should stop wasting everyones time and remove the app then. There you
>> are picking and choosing how you use the tools there to help the cause and
>> on the other hand slaging off those who are providing it for doing a bad
>> job.
>>
>> What a huge slice of hypocrisy.

I'm not clear where I've slagged anybody off. I just question the efficacy of its use on a large site occupied by multiple self contained premises.

Given the controls on access to shared washrooms and the fact there is more than one facility block on many sites the risk of transmission there is minimal.

I'd call it pragmatism.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Manatee
>> I'd call it pragmatism.

So would I. Although I would probably check in and leave it running, and just take a view if it issued a warning.

It's obvious even to responsible citizens that it isn't an omniscient system - it is what it is, a new application of technology that has big limitations and is a long way from being perfected, and as has constantly been pointed out we should all be taking personal responsibility and doing what we sensibly can to protect ourselves. Making decisions about our safety, in other words.

A caravan site contains probably dozens of people that we don't get anywhere near while we are there. On the other hand, if I check in at our village hall for a meeting and subsequently get a warning, I know that one of the 5 people a shared I room with for 2 hours must be the source. A very different case.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 23 Oct 20 at 10:18
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Netsur
Just been on a three day 1,000 mile business trip with several visits to service stations and the like en-route. All required some form of sign-in, preferrably the Covid-19 NHS App sign-in before they would serve you.

Makes sense. Lots of people coming in an out, using toilets one after the other, sitting in chairs only just vacated. You can cancel the log-in when you leave so it only recognises the precise time you were there so if a super-spreader arrives after you, you won't get the call. Otherwise your log in remains live until midnight or until you sign in elsewhere the same day.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - No FM2R

>> Our place was on pitch 8, I wasn't prepared to risk having to self isolate
>> because the guy down the other end on pitch 70 reported contact with Covid.


I'm not sure what I'd do. Lumping an entire large campsite into one check-in point does seem a bit excessive. On the other hand you might have shared the bathroom or other facility with the person who tested positive and thus might be carrying.

In all I'd probably take Manatee's approach; carry on using it but if a positive result shows take it as reason for extreme caution rather than necessarily for total isolation for 14 days.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 23 Oct 20 at 11:36
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - CGNorwich
My understanding of how the thing works is that the algorithm uses the proximity and duration of exposure to a contact for calculating vulnerability to infection and thus whether you will be contacted not simply whether you checked in to the location. The purpose of the Q code is to provide your contact info - like leaving your telephone number in a paper based system.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 23 Oct 20 at 11:46
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - CGNorwich
covid19.nhs.uk/risk-scoring-algorithm.html
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - No FM2R
I didn't appreciate it was that subtle. So Bromp checking in on the QR code or not will not have altered anything except the ability for the campsite to contact him directly?

Knowing that, then I would do exactly the same as Bromp.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - CGNorwich
Not the campsite. The don’t get your details. Track and Trace contact you directly.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Rudedog
Surely one of the flaws is that you are kept 'signed-in' even after you have left the location for several hours... not sure what the issue is with not using a second QR code as you leave?

 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Bromptonaut
>> Surely one of the flaws is that you are kept 'signed-in' even after you have
>> left the location for several hours... not sure what the issue is with not using
>> a second QR code as you leave?

Just checked my data and it shows me as at the Citroen dealer in Milton Keynes from 09:00 until midnight. If that's standard then I'd have needed to check in again each day at the Club site.

I also got a brief warning on mine for exposure. It popped up while I was in Tesco and wanting my phone to text home for guidance on substitute products so I didn't attend to it immediately.

Now I cannot find it.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - No FM2R
I'm sure I'm being dense but I'm not seeing the advantage of checking into any QR code.

The app will tell me if my phone has been close to a relevant phone at a relevant time.

Why does anybody else need me to check-in to a QR code so that they know I was there?

That can surely only add difficulty?

Unless it's so that if they find they had an infected person without the App that they can then tell me about it. And I don't think I want that since who knows if I was there at the same time or close to them?

What damage would I do by ignoring QR check-ins?
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Bromptonaut
>> I'm sure I'm being dense but I'm not seeing the advantage of checking into any
>> QR code.

>> Why does anybody else need me to check-in to a QR code so that they
>> know I was there?

I think there is an obligation at some level for businesses of certain types to record visitors. The intention is that if a person reporting a positive test says they were at the Old Bull and Bush at 12:00 to 14:00 on 19 October the pub will pass details of customers at the time to check/trace.

If the customer checks in with the App the recording obligation is met.

I may be wrong though.

As CAMH Club know I was there and the duration of my booking and have all my details as a member it's not clear what checking in adds.

I suspect Mark and I are not the only ones confused by this and that there's an element of a*** covering going on.

 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Manatee
>>I suspect Mark and I are not the only ones confused by this and that there's an element of a*** covering going on.

It's basically been implemented while still developing as a whole system. Test and trace is still clearly half baked and not only inefficient but ineffective, with people being contacted by multiple tracers, tracers themselves basically employed doing nothing, and so on.

In a way that's fine, COVID wasn't in the plan - but it would have been better in say May than in October when it should be working much better.

Maybe it's too simplistic to say this is what you get when you put your unqualified friends in charge of multi-billion pound projects but I shouldn't think that helped. I'm waiting for Johnson to implode. Yet still people rally to him and say what a good job he's doing - presumably to convince themselves they did the right thing by voting in December for his oven ready Brexit deal.

 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - smokie
It had only just gone live as I left the UK but both daughters are running it and it has given a number of false alarms in the same way you describe Bromps - the message appears then can't be found later. I thought an update had been issued but anyway make sure yours is up to date. It was mentioned on the Beeb news site earlier this week too IIRC.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 23 Oct 20 at 16:29
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - James Loveless
"Just checked my data..."

How do you do that?
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - Bromptonaut
>> How do you do that?

Via 'Manage my Data' under the about this app tab.
 Coronavirus - Choosing to Use the App - James Loveless
Thanks.

Mine is totally blank. Perhaps it shows something only if you've checked in somewhere using a QR code. I haven't done that, so that would explain it.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54662795

I can only see this increasing the popularity of online shopping.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - bathtub tom
I heard today, Paypal and other companies are offering, short, interest free finance on purchases (a few weeks). This is to encourage buyers to get stuff they couldn't otherwise afford. It will also improve the retail trade (I suspect they're paying the cost) that sign into it.
Paypal are charging £12 for late payments, I understand.

I suppose someone has to fill the void left by Brighthouse.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Bromptonaut
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54662795
>>
>> I can only see this increasing the popularity of online shopping.

I can see the prohibition on Welsh Supermarkets selling non-essential items ending up in the courts.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Robin O'Reliant
Someone from the Welsh government has said that kettles are on the banned list because "There are other methods of boiling water".

Luckily I have two spare, just in case.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Manatee
>> Someone from the Welsh government has said that kettles are on the banned list because
>> "There are other methods of boiling water".

Twit. Probably has a boily water tap. But I don't suppose Currys is going to open up just to sell kettles. Fortunately there are online vendors.

Jug kettles or even traditional are much safer to handle than saucepans with a couple of pints of boiling water slopping about, usually have locking lids, and are where the hot drink is made. Wandering across the kitchen with the pan of boiling water is not an especially safe activity, or easy for folk with arthritic hands - my wife would struggle to do it.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123
>> >> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54662795
>> >>
>> >> I can only see this increasing the popularity of online shopping.
>>
>> I can see the prohibition on Welsh Supermarkets selling non-essential items ending up in the
>> courts.
>>

Looks like it's being 'reviewed'.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
Chile is incompetent at most things.

However, everybody wears a mask, everybody distances (when they're not rioting).

Pretty much all shops are open, though they restrict how many people are in at one time.

Pretty much all bars & restaurants are open though everybody must close before 11pm. All bars & restaurants have been given permission to put tables out on the sidewalk, and even the road if it is wide enough, to allow people to be seated outside.

You don't need to wear a mask when seated, but must put it on before standing. And your mask is not permitted to be left on the table, hanging on the chair or anywhere else. Most places issue little plastic bags to keep the mask in when not wearing it.

Eating inside is not permitted, hence the growth onto sidewalks and road edges. Even if you buy a burger in the food court of a shopping mall you have to leave the mall to eat it.

Of course being outside is no real issue here, except it's damned hot in the sun, it's spring now so that'll be sunshine until March/April time.

The only thing that I can think of that is not open is cinemas. Oh and sports events / concerts, of course.

Yet COVID-19 growth in Chile has been flat for about 3 months, even decreasing slightly. What is Europe doing so differently or so wrong to see such growth?
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
Or is it simply that Chile screwed it up so badly in the early days that all those likely to get very sick and/or die have already done so?

Chile has less than 1m people over the age of 80.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - bathtub tom
Chile has less fewer than 1m people over the age of 80.

You have the things that annoy you and I have the things that annoy me.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Sat 24 Oct 20 at 19:15
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
Quite correct. And it always annoys me when I forget less/few
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - CGNorwich
The oldest use that the Oxford English Dictionary gives for less with a countable noun is a quotation from 888 by Alfred the Great:
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Manatee
>>What is Europe doing so differently or so wrong to see such growth?

The virus does not like hot and dry conditions. Although I suspect a few other moving parts are involved.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
>>The virus does not like hot and dry conditions.

That would apply now but not in July / August. Which is a bit like early autumn in the UK.

I can only assume that the UK is overreacting.

It seems that is is largely spread by breath when in close contact with others. Separation in Santiago is difficult, and the poorer you are the more difficult it is. It really is difficult to believe that Chile is performing better at precautions unless the UK is ignoring the whole thing and just behaving like a nation of dicks.

One could argue that perhaps testing is not as comprehensive here, though tests are freely available. But we haven't got gutters full of bodies and elective surgery is taking place pretty freely/widely indicating that the ICUs are also doing ok.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - smokie
My own view is that the second wave is more aggressively virulent and as such the measures which most countries are taking very seriously (even if their population aren't) will only be of limited help. Maybe places like Chile have less visitors bringing in the more virulent strain. The point seems to be that nearly al countries are reporting massively increased numbers around the same time, so you can't blame e.g. track and trace not working, or Boris's Tiers, or whatever.

It obviously would help if people kept their distance

Just my theory.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
And I don't think it's right. It may spread faster, though there is no current evidence, but it's not more lethal.

However, the difference just twigged. Here schools and universities are still remote learning.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
By the way, are you still in Portugal? Tell all. I could do with some vicarious enjoyment, I love the place.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Terry
Some graphs have been produced which show in the larger cities - Manchester, Liverpool etc
- that the increase in infection rates is very closely aligned with the return of students to uni by local area where halls of residence etc are concentrated.

There is a danger in making these sort of correlations, but given that a lot of students enjoy socialising, alcohol, drugs, sex etc, it seems blindingly obvious.

The rise in infection rates generally also seems to be closely related to the change in weather over the last 4-6 weeks making outdoor socialising less likely.

All this is compounded by a delay in taking action when needed, lack of enforcement, clownish comments from the terminally stupid seeking to find inconsistencies in the rules, and the denialists who think it is all a conspiracy anyway (or certainly no worse than flu)
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - smokie
Yep, less than two weeks now till I go home from Portugal, though I'v ehalf a mind to see if I can stretch it out easily ( - flight and car hire would be easy enough as would accommodation, it's just the insurances and they wouldn't be oto difficult, nor, I doubt, would extending the UK airport parking). State of calamity has been announced since we arrived but it's not changed much. Outdoor masks are now compulsory anywhere where you can't reliably maintain safe distance.


Next Fri - Mon (All Saints Day is Monday, which is a public hol and I gather is usually a family-visiting occasion) all travel outside your own municipality is banned, and will be enforced rigidly. Which is a bit of a drag as I have to get daughter back to the airport on Saturday. People are saying there'll be no taxis, so this week I need to find out the proper situation as I have to cross two other municipalities to reach the airport. I'm not even sure who I'd ask a similar question of in the UK, let alone here!! She flew out here on a bit of a whim yesterday on a 1/3rd full flight.

On the up side it really isn't that busy here. We are at Armacao de Pera which is a modest sized place with a number of apartment blocks, most of which appear to be empty - our "landlady" says they are mostly second homes for Portuguese rather than rented out to others. When you look out from our roof terrace, or drive round and see all the empty apartments and villas, you wonder how the local businesses survive the winter - I feel so sorry for the empty bars so am dropping in to support them more frequently than I usually would! :-)

We've had on really bad day this week and a couple less so but the sea was actually warmer after it, which I didn't expect, although quite a bit rougher. It's calmer now but there is some intermittent rain expected today, then the forecast is clear fo rthe next week or so.

I think I mentioned elsewhere that the F1 is taking place today not far away. Having said how empty the bars are, one had a number of lairy blokes in the other day who's clearly spent quit some hours there, and they were the truck drivers for some of the teams apparently. Quite a few of the teams are staying quite close to here, at the hotel where my daughter's mate got married a couple of years back, and apparently Aston are hosting a party for 180 somewhere tonight which I'm sure will be socially distanced. Still waiting for my invite... :-)
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Bromptonaut
>> My own view is that the second wave is more aggressively virulent

What leads you to that conclusion?
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Manatee
Define virulent.

"extremely severe or harmful in its effects"

Assume it's something that can and does have mutations. Logically it might get more infectious, survival of the fittest and all that.

I suppose a more infectious strain might just happen to be more virulent but I don't think it follows that it will.

I thought case mortality was going down? Real cases I mean, not just using positive test numbers.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123
I thought case mortality was going down? Real cases I mean, not just using positive
>> test numbers.
>>

I believe so, numbers of people dying are in line with what's expected in an average October.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - smokie
Numbers dying would be lower as we understand better how to treat people with it.

I may have used the wrong word, I didn't really mean it's more deadly. I meant more pervasive, or something like that - more easily passed on maybe. My theory isn't well developed really so don't spend too much time analysing it. :-)

Others are blowing off that it's Boris's fault, or the UK government, or the students, or the rioters, or people not wearing masks, or people going on holiday, or the lack of testing - yet the second wave is far from being a UK only problem, and is being seen in countries which are taking different approaches to safety.

I just made me think that maybe that it is the virus itself which may have changed in some way.


But OTOH testing is probably exposing a lot more cases where symptoms are low or non-existent and which would have completely gone under the radar in March/April, but are now being counted and are bringing the figures across Europe to somewhere about the same level as March.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Bromptonaut
>> But OTOH testing is probably exposing a lot more cases where symptoms are low or
>> non-existent and which would have completely gone under the radar in March/April, but are now
>> being counted and are bringing the figures across Europe to somewhere about the same level
>> as March.

In the UK, or certainly England and Wales, the numbers are being driven up by the availability of testing. Whilst there are still widespread reports of delay/inefficiency in testing very large numbers of people are being tested as soon as they have symptoms. Many of those are young people who fight off the infection with only a few days of feeling rough.

The worrying thing will be when hospital admissions and transfers to ICU get back to the levels of last spring.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - devonite
Just wondering why they didn't start using the Nightingale Hospitals first for covid patients thereby allowing normal hospitals to carry on functioning as normal for as long as possible, rather than filling them first and having to curtail other treatments for patients?
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Bromptonaut
>> Just wondering why they didn't start using the Nightingale Hospitals first for covid patients thereby
>> allowing normal hospitals to carry on functioning as normal for as long as possible, rather
>> than filling them first and having to curtail other treatments for patients?

I suspect staff is as much of a problem as beds.

Is there still a cohort of the recently retired ready to be called in?
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123
I suspect staff is as much of a problem as beds.
>> www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/nurse-shortage-causes-nightingale-hospital-to-turn-away-patients
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Zero
>> Is there still a cohort of the recently retired ready to be called in?

The NMC have not yet cancelled the the suspension of registration, so yes. Many nurses who had specialisation, ie paeds, now have some recent general nursing skills built up, to backfill those sent to Nightinggales,. In truth the Nightinggales were severely under utilised, the diagnosis, effects, progress and variants of the disease are now well understood, and hence treatment much more timely & effective. No doubt tho that the vulnerable hit by flu and CV this winter are going to die
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 26 Oct 20 at 10:25
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Zero
>> Just wondering why they didn't start using the Nightingale Hospitals first for covid patients thereby
>> allowing normal hospitals to carry on functioning as normal for as long as possible, rather
>> than filling them first and having to curtail other treatments for patients?

Patient transport was a major issue.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123
>> Patient transport was a major issue.

Lack of ambulances?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 26 Oct 20 at 10:25
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - sooty123
The worrying thing will be when hospital admissions and transfers to ICU get back to
>> the levels of last spring.
>>

We are about 20% of where things were in March, in terms of those on ventilators with cv19. How this corresponds to an average Oct I don't know. I guess they would start to busy at this time of year?
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Terry
Hospitals, like most public services, are funded and staffed to be close to 100% utilised.

Less than this and they would be perceived as wasting money (empty beds etc). Hospitals may carry a small contingency for road accidents, terrorist incidents etc but are generally fully used.

They create headroom for peak demands (eg: flu in winter) by flexing other more elective treatments. Nightingale hospitals may be very efficient as they have been set up to deal with only one issue. They do not need all the ancilliary facilities of a general hospital. efficiently.

The real issue is likely to be staffing - even though they may be very efficient, they still need staff who will be drawn largely from existing hospitals (+ some returnees etc).

Hospital admissions lag cases probably by around 2 weeks and deaths by 3-4 weeks. So expect the numbers to increase until mid November, even if the Tier system works.

As far as the virus mutating is concerned, Charles Darwin had it right. Generally (but not always) viruses tend to become less dangerous - they would quickly vanish if they killed their hosts before they could pass on the infection.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Zero

>> In the UK, or certainly England and Wales, the numbers are being driven up by
>> the availability of testing. Whilst there are still widespread reports of delay/inefficiency in testing very
>> large numbers of people are being tested as soon as they have symptoms.

Needed a test on Friday, Booked it Friday Am, took drive through test at 12:30 (6 miles away) result to my phone Saturday evening at 19:00.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Bobby
Can I ask why you needed a test? You got symptoms?
My daughter is taking part in a govt test re looking at antibodies. Got her results back today Friday, she has the antibodies.
We reckon that the 4 of us had it over the fortnight before lockdown.
Think she gets monthly tests to look at levels of antibodies and monitor for any future positive Covid tests.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Zero
>> Can I ask why you needed a test? You got symptoms?

No symptoms, I have a colonoscopy on Tuesday, at an outsourced clinic, and they require me to be Covid free.

I've had lots of tests arranged by my NHS trust, this is the first time I have had to arrange my own. Never had an antibodies test.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - zippy
Hampshire police send SBS to enforce rule of 6...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-54684440
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
??

"The Ministry of Defence called the incident a "suspected hijacking" and said Defence Secretary Ben Wallace and Home Secretary Priti Patel authorised the operation in response to a police request."

I'm wondering about the accuracy of your other accusations of police excessiveness now.

Though it's all a bit strange. Apparently the crew and the owners had been aware of the presence of a number of stowaways for some time and it was they who cut up rough when the crew tried to do something about them..
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - zippy
Erm it was a humorous comment on the rule of 6 nothing more!

I doubt Hampshire police had anything to do with it until some poor custody Sargent had to look up the piracy act!
Last edited by: zippy on Mon 26 Oct 20 at 00:57
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
I was trying, and clearly failing, to be facetious.

I suspect it's one of those where we'll never get the full story.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Zero
>> I was trying, and clearly failing, to be facetious.


OMG! Must be an old age thing. how you gonna survive with your primary faculties failing you?
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R

>> OMG! Must be an old age thing. how you gonna survive with your primary faculties
>> failing you?

I don't know. It is a worry.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Bromptonaut
>> I suspect it's one of those where we'll never get the full story.

I suspect you're right.

The incident is now being used to re-warm the migrants invading via the channel story. It's almost as though it's to the governments advantage that the story emerges now.....
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
>> It's almost as though it's to the governments advantage that the story emerges now.....

Party politics at its daftest.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Bromptonaut
>> Party politics at its daftest.

It was semi ironic.....
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
>>It was semi ironic...

I never really know what that means, not just in this case. Does it mean that it was also semi not-ironic? Can something be semi-ironic, or must be either ironic or not?

Isn't ironic when something illogical or seemingly wrong happens? e.g. Bear Grylls getting lost in a shopping mall.

So how can it be semi-that?

 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - neiltoo
You can't have degrees of some words - partly pregnant, for instance.

I think something is either ironic or not.

Just pedantry practise, I've been resting.

8o)
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Fullchat
May have had more of an impact if it had any Iranian Embassy type of outcome.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R

www.notimerica.com/politica/noticia-coronavirus-nicolas-maduro-anuncia-logrado-medicamento-suprime-efectos-coronavirus-20201025234820.html

It's in Spanish and I can't find the story in English. Sorry. I offer you just a little which I have translated.


Nicolás Maduro announces that they have achieved a drug that suppresses the effects of the coronavirus

The president of Venezuela, Nicolás Maduro, announced on Sunday that scientists from the Venezuelan Institute for Scientific Research have found a molecule that nullifies the effects caused by COVID-19 obtained from a medicinal plant.
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - No FM2R
And then I found this....

www.telesurenglish.net/news/venezuela-announces-effective-medicine-against-covid-19-20201026-0008.html
 Coronavirus - Volume 26 - Lygonos
Thank God we've got Brexit done so we can stop these Nigerians from...

Oh.
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