Non-motoring > Coronavirus - Volume 27 Miscellaneous
Thread Author: R.P. Replies: 173

 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - R.P.
C19 chat.

615813
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Nov 20 at 11:11
 United Airlines to trial airport Covid testing - No FM2R
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54741210

Got to be the way forward if they can make it work.
 United Airlines to trial airport Covid testing - No FM2R
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54604100
 United Airlines to trial airport Covid testing - R.P.
b***** - sorry Mark
 United Airlines to trial airport Covid testing - No FM2R
No prob.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
In Chile we have, as I have mentioned before, a single and unique identifying number.

If you wish to go anywhere controlled; hospitals, care homes, old peoples' homes, orphanages etc. etc. you must have a negative COVID-19 test against your ID number that is no more than 24 hours old.Your ID records can be checked by anybody authorised (police, Government departments, health organisations etc. etc) and can be checked against your ID card and/ or your fingerprints.

It works quite well. Makes it dead easy to go places reasonably safely.

However, despite their love of protest, nobody here is protesting against covid precautions

Who ever thought they'd be more grown up here.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 31 Oct 20 at 23:05
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - zippy
>>More grown up...

I do wonder. I had to go out yesterday evening to deliver an important package.

I took the route through the town centre and was surprised to find it packed with revellers who were not socially distancing.

Well another 4 or so weeks lockdown is going to be a pain.

Miss Z mentioned that the 3 hospitals in our Trust may specialise in treatments. The two main hospitals are of similar size. They are 20 miles apart and the one nearest us has more surgical capacity so may carry on with general medical emergencies and necessary elective surgery whilst the one in the middle, which has only minor day surgery facilities and no A&E handles geriatric medicine and the one furthest away handles CV19 intensive care.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123
I wonder how the government and it's depts are going to use this time? Are more staff being brought back into the NHS that have just left, I assume all those plans are still in place.





There was an interesting interview on the BBC, before the press conference last night, with a woman from an Edinburgh uni who said the European model of lockdowns didn't really work. The countries to follow were those in East Asia such as Taiwan, S Korea etc. Where it was more of a case of tracing and isolating people, due to their experience of SARS.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Zero

>> There was an interesting interview on the BBC, before the press conference last night, with
>> a woman from an Edinburgh uni who said the European model of lockdowns didn't really
>> work. The countries to follow were those in East Asia such as Taiwan, S Korea
>> etc. Where it was more of a case of tracing and isolating people, due to
>> their experience of SARS.

That works well in countries that operate in a military or police state environment with a compliant population. You cant use New Zealand or Australia as examples, as good as they are, because population demographics is on their side. Germany was the best guide we had, and they are struggling. In short We are much the same as Europe.

Some states in the US are complete basket cases, Population densities and geographic distancing says it simply shouldn't spread, but it is. Their constitutional rights to kill themselves and everyone else apparently.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123

>> That works well in countries that operate in a military or police state environment with
>> a compliant population. You cant use New Zealand or Australia as examples, as good as
>> they are, because population demographics is on their side. Germany was the best guide we
>> had, and they are struggling. In short We are much the same as Europe.


There are many differences in sociaity that mean there are different approaches of course, I didn't suggest otherwise. I did think though it was an interesting discussion point while the delay was on for the press conference last night.


>> Some states in the US are complete basket cases, Population densities and geographic distancing says
>> it simply shouldn't spread, but it is. Their constitutional rights to kill themselves and everyone
>> else apparently.

The mountain states? By all accounts a large part is from some enormous bike show that had high 6 figure attendees. Come winter the localsl will all be back in their cabins hunkering down for winter, plus all the tourists will be back home.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - henry k
>>The mountain states? By all accounts a large part is from some enormous bike show that had high 6 figure attendees.

www.politico.com/news/2020/10/31/trump-study-coronavirus-rallies-433760

President Donald Trump's campaign rallies between June and September may have caused some 30,000 coronavirus infections and more than 700 deaths, according to a new study by Stanford University economists.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123
www.politico.com/news/2020/10/31/trump-study-coronavirus-rallies-433760
>>
>> President Donald Trump's campaign rallies between June and September may have caused some 30,000 coronavirus
>> infections and more than 700 deaths, according to a new study by Stanford University economists.
>>

No not that, it was someone on here on one of the previous volumes.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - henry k
>>No not that, it was someone on here on one of the previous volumes.
Twas probably me re the Sturgis annual gathering.
They all had a choice to attend, from all over the USA and then take their souvenirs back to all over the USA .

www.politico.com/news/2020/10/31/trump-study-coronavirus-rallies-433760
IMO Trump is largely to blame by arranging all these meets with no concern about crowd safety.
Of course his lemmings could choose to not attend but hey it is a free country to infect others.

“Americans have the right to gather under the First Amendment to hear from the President of the United States, and we take strong precautions for our campaign events,”

More than 9 million people in the United States have been infected with Covid-19 and the virus has claimed the lives of more than 230,000.

( Sturgis is mentioned in the above limk )
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Manatee
>> That works well in countries that operate in a military or police state environment with
>> a compliant population.

The lady would be Sunetra Gupta.

It's less to do with compliant population I think than when you start.

Here, cases generally come to light when somebody falls ill and test and trace has achieved very little. In S. Korea, they have been doing test track and trace from the off and they find most of their cases that way. They generally know who the vector is. From here we cannot hope to do that, we have far too many cases.

>>Germany was the best guide we had, and they are struggling. In short We are much the same as Europe.

We have had 685 deaths per million. Germany has had 125. So we are much the same?

SAGE advised a lockdown on 21st Sept. when there were 5600 new cases, under 400 people in hospital, and 28 deaths. Yesterday there were 22,000 new cases, 11,000 in hospital, and 326 deaths.

Running Health Services as hot as we do and lack of preparedness probably mean we would always have done worse with Germany, but I still think we would have done a lot better had we had Merkel in charge.



Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Nov 20 at 10:40
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - tyrednemotional
>>
>> The lady would be Sunetra Gupta.
>>
...as Edinburgh was mentioned, I suspect the reference was to Devi Sridhar, who holds rather different views.

Very much in favour of robust test/trace/isolate (and, as I understood it, slightly reluctantly supportive of lockdown because we haven't got that, and need some sort of control). Also very much in favour of using any "bought time" to invest massively though differently in test/trace capability.
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Sun 1 Nov 20 at 10:14
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123
...as Edinburgh was mentioned, I suspect the reference was to Devi Sridhar, who holds rather
>> different views.
>>
>> Very much in favour of robust test/trace/isolate (and, as I understood it, slightly reluctantly supportive
>> of lockdown because we haven't got that, and need some sort of control). Also very
>> much in favour of using any "bought time" to invest massively though differently in test/trace
>> capability.
>>

Just looked her up, yes that's the person I was thinking of.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123
It's less to do with compliant population I think than when you start.
>>
>> Here, cases generally come to light when somebody falls ill and test and trace has
>> achieved very little. In S. Korea, they have been doing test track and trace from
>> the off and they find most of their cases that way. They generally know who
>> the vector is. From here we cannot hope to do that, we have far too
>> many cases.

I think there is something in the differences in society, I get that T&T works best in small numbers, however from my understanding a fair people don't respond to T&T in providing answers and a fair number either don't comply with 2 week isolation or only partially.

Then contrast that to other countries, in that there is some difference in how and why countries populations view what is acceptable. Perhaps compliant isn't the right word, but there's a difference in view points.





 Coronavirus Volume 27 - CGNorwich
Yes there is a difference in the outlook of a large element of the UK population. They have little sense of belonging to a larger community, care only for themselves and their rights. That combined with the poor education of many and a national obsession with alcohol makes it near impossible to implement a lock down policy as efficient as that in Germany let alone S Korea.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123
I'm not sure how well our education or alcoholic consumption stacks up with Germany, S Korea or any other country.
I think it boils down people's perception of what the Government's role is in relation to their lives, I'd agree that can be quite different depending on the country.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - PeterS
>> Yes there is a difference in the outlook of a large element of the UK
>> population. They have little sense of belonging to a larger community, care only for themselves
>> and their rights. That combined with the poor education of many and a national obsession
>> with alcohol makes it near impossible to implement a lock down policy as efficient as
>> that in Germany let alone S Korea.
>>
>>

Our performance is broadly in line with Spain, France and Italy and behind Germany by a long way. We do drink about 10% more per capita than the Germans mind you... But the German healthcare system is very different to ours. They have a national health insurance system, but they do not have a national health service. The provision of services is decentralised, and provided by a combination of private and not-for-profit organisations. It also, perhaps as a result, acknowledged to be the most consumer (or patient) focussed health system in Europe.

One of the problems in the U.K. IMO is the deification of the NHS, with any criticism or attempt to reform it seen as a challenge to the very purpose of it. That’s partly eduction driven...how many people understand how other systems work, and partly brainwashing really. We’re told that the NHS is the best healthcare system in the world, but it really isn’t. It’s job is to protect us, and yet the mantra has been for us to protect it. The NHS isn’t that good from a patent perspective, except in an emergency when it reacts magnificently. But this just leads to further deification. It’s a challenge. Any attempt to make the system more Germanic is derided by the left as ‘privatisation’, and yet should provide a far better service. How you transition from one system to another is possibly the biggest challenge, but we need to start...

I suspect the reason Germany has performed better is that it’s old people are generally more affluent, their care homes are better run, they have better (privately run) hospital bed provision and more beds available. Decisions are also made regionally...they don’t have a Nicola Sturgeon sending covid positive patients from hospital to care homes by diktat. In fact, the whole German health care system is run by professionals, and is the largest single sector in their economy (when you include the manufacture of medical equipment, supplies and services). I imagine e the German equivalent of the civil service also had a plan for a pandemic, whereas our civil service seems to have lived up to the ‘Yes Minister’ reputation rather too well. I mean, what was PHEs plan for a pandemic...?

Also, the Germans are better at following rules ;)

(That’s a joke...in my journey through France, Italy, Austria and Germany in the summer social I saw no real differences in social distancing, mask compliance or gatherings of people than at home)
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
>>We have had 685 deaths per million. Germany has had 125.

Deaths per million pop reflects what?

What is it that the Government did, or did not do, or that any Government did or did not do which is reflected in the deaths per million pop for that country?

Is there some thought that the Government can affect survival / fatality rates?

We *must* avoid death through lack of appropriate healthcare. That's about it, isn't it?

Other than that it's either wait until there is (if ever) an effective vaccine or learn to live with the virus in our lives.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Zero
>> Is there some thought that the Government can affect survival / fatality rates?
yes
>> We *must* avoid death through lack of appropriate healthcare. That's about it, isn't it?

Yes that's it, thats what they can effect. If the Hospitals get overloaded, the death rate soars, and not just coronavirus causes and it spirals worse and worse.

Its any governments only goal. Ensure the medical services can cope. So they will do what they can to ensure it can. Even it it means locking us in our houses.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 1 Nov 20 at 13:12
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Manatee
>>Deaths per million pop reflects what?

If we had had the same rate we would have had c. 10,000 not 45,000 deaths.

>>What is it that the Government did, or did not do, or that any Government did or did not do which is reflected in the deaths per million pop for that country?

Directly it can only be either or a combination of lower infection rate, or lower infection mortality.

Govenment action that could influence this - maybe nothing, or (candidates)

- Better infection controls (e.g. earlier 'lockdowns', better management of care homes, earlier use of masks)

- Better Healthcare generally, possibly related to preparedness, capacity or facilities

- Better or earlier effective testing, tracking and tracing

Confounding factors that are less to do with government action would be mainly social or cultural e.g.

- less mixing?

- better compliance?

- younger demographic?

- fewer imported cases?

But the difference is huge - between 300% & 400% more deaths, proportionately, in the UK.

It would be most interesting to know in what proportions the difference arises directly from lower infection rate or lower infection mortality.

 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
>> >>Deaths per million pop reflects what?
>>
>> If we had had the same rate we would have had c. 10,000 not 45,000
>> deaths.

My question was what does the statistic reflect?

>> Directly it can only be either or a combination of lower infection rate

True. By ordering people to do what they do not have the common sense to do. When it is not successful, as compulsion rarely is, then why not blame the lack of common sense? At least at the same time as blaming the rules.

>>or lower infection mortality.

How?

>> - Better infection controls (e.g. earlier 'lockdowns', better management of care homes,
>> earlier use of masks)

This is the infection rate, and even then only a delating tactic.

>> - Better Healthcare generally, possibly related to preparedness, capacity or facilities

Perhaps. But I think blaming the state of the NHS on Johnson is pushing it. I don't like him, but really.

>> - Better or earlier effective testing, tracking and tracing

Infection not mortality.

>> - less mixing?

Only infection delay.

>> - better compliance?

Only infection delay.

>> - younger demographic?

And healthier / fitter perhaps. Also age, smoking, drinking, fitness, lifestyle, pollution, etc etc. For example, if you're old and sick in Chile you'll have died long before COVID-19 got to you. And there are only 800,000 people over the age of 80. You'd think both would impact the mortality rate.

>> - fewer imported cases?

Not relevant really. The original case(s) were imported. And by and large they were brought home, not taken elsewhere. Related to infection rate only.

>> But the difference is huge - between 300% & 400% more deaths, proportionately, in the
>> UK.

Proportionately? Surely a per pop stat is already proportionate. Or is that what you meant and I'm misreading?

You are quite correct in that we should understand the reasons behind the difference. But it's not Johnson or his Government.

>> It would be most interesting to know in what proportions the difference arises directly from
>> lower infection rate or lower infection mortality.

Interesting but very difficult. Examples; the demographic distribution of infection is not the same between the two countries. The data recorded against death and infection are not easily comparable. Cause of death is uncertain. Testing numbers, testing demographic and test subject selection are not even vaguely consistent between countries and this impacts demographic split of detected infections.

etc. etc. etc.

What we do know;

- There is a virus for which currently there is no vaccine
- There is uncertainty about immunity either post infection or via vaccine
- It particularly kills the vulnerable
- Barring the most amazing luck in mutation it is not going away.

and most importantly of all; it spreads in a similar fashion to the common cold, you should take take similar steps to avoid catching it.

You'd think advertising that last would do the trick, but no. However, I still have optimism about the likely impact on country average IQ levels.

The trouble is, asking members of the human race to take steps because it will protect others though they are at little risk themselves is a bit of a no hoper.

The virus levels are stable here and have been for pushing three months. Falling slightly even. Schools and universities are still remote learning. That's about the only difference I can see.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Manatee
I won't go into all that again unless you want me to but the "how" on infection mortality could most obviously be related to the availability or quality of healthcare and treatment.

There has also been a paper on the the role of masks in reducing mortality by reducing viral loads. You might still pick up the virus when either you or the vector is wearing a mask but you will get less of it.

So a government can influence infection mortality.

I admire your staunch defence of the government but others have done better in my view. Perhaps the fact that Merkel is scientifically literate has been an advantage.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
I don't really accept that the Government is responsible for CFR in any material way. Or IFR for that matter, but we have no effective way of measuring that. But there is little point in hammering it.

>>I admire your staunch defence of the government

Oh please do not misunderstand, I am no defender of this Government. Johnson has dug us more holes than the average politician. Not that I am particularly a defender of any Government. Party politics is not my thing.

I just think we're blaming them in the wrong way for the wrong things, especially when there are so many things they are absolutely responsible for cocking up.

>>Perhaps the fact that Merkel is scientifically literate has been an advantage.

I don't know. If nothing else it's got to help on credibility levels cautioning the media to watch its mouth.

I suspect, however, that there is something(s) we don't know which could perhaps explain much of the geographical differences.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 1 Nov 20 at 15:11
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Zero

>> >>Germany was the best guide we had, and they are struggling. In short We are
>> much the same as Europe.
>>
>> We have had 685 deaths per million. Germany has had 125. So we are much
>> the same?

You will note I separated Germany from "Europe" even in your quote it remains, so pleased don't lump them back in for the purposes of disagreeing. Thats very Trump like behaviour.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
>> You will note I separated Germany from "Europe" even in your quote it remains, so
>> pleased don't lump them back in for the purposes of disagreeing. Thats very Trump like
>> behaviour.

What did Germany do that UK, France, Spain etc did not?

Was it an effective track/trace/isolate routine?
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123
Then of course you've countries like Greece and Cyprus which are similar in ways to Spain, Italy etc, yet they've seemed to have far fewer cases and deaths. Perhaps it never really took hold there to start with.

No doubt they'll be mountains of research for academics for decades to come.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Nov 20 at 10:40
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
>>Perhaps it never really took hold there to start with.

Or perhaps an earlier, less nasty, version of the virus had already been there some time before.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - PeterS
The Germans gave up on their app based track and trace, as did the french I recall. Both use regional health resources, so less central interference and more ownership as a result I suspect. A closer link between those checking and the community they serve perhaps? The Germans also have a far better health insurance system than the French, and the best healthcare provision in Europe. No NHS though...and not run by the government. Affluence must have something g to do with it too I’d have thought.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Nov 20 at 10:41
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Manatee

>> You will note I separated Germany from "Europe" even in your quote it remains, so
>> pleased don't lump them back in for the purposes of disagreeing. Thats very Trump like
>> behaviour.

I don't behave like Trump. Evidently I misunderstood your meaning, not surprising when your complete sentence was

"Germany was the best guide we had, and they are struggling. In short We are much the same as Europe."

which to me seemed that you were using Germany, "our best guide" as the primary example. And if they are struggling, then it must be with reference to a much higher bar.

Try to be clearer.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123
However, despite their love of protest, nobody here is protesting against covid precautions
>>
>

I don't think I've seen many protests here either?
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - smokie
History repeats itself. We ended our March holiday early when lockdowns were implemented in the UK and Portugal.

It was announced yesterday that quite a bit of Portugal will be locked down for 2 weeks from later this week, but not the area we are in.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
>> I don't think I've seen many protests here either?

Only a handful such as this one in September:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/26/london-lockdown-protesters-urged-to-follow-covid-rules

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next week or so.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123
Ah yeah I remember them now.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Terry
It may be better to compare UK with other countries which are more broadly aligned in terms of population density, size, culture, political and democratic processes etc.

Comparison with NZ, Australia, Korea etc are less relevant.

Although it does he government no great credit, the UK sits 12th in the list of deaths per million - with Belgium, Spain, US above the UK. France, Italy and Sweden are close behind.

The only comparable nation in the EU is Germany with a much better performance.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
>>Although it does he government no great credit, the UK sits 12th in the list of deaths per million

Nor any great discredit.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
Smokie;

Ref: Virulence & contagion. It's a bit dry but worth a read I think.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/pandemic-virus-slowly-mutating-it-getting-more-dangerous
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
And I do encourage you to read "Why so little evolution?" at the bottom.

That would explain a lot.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - smokie
Will do... ta
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - zippy
We're doomed....

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-farage/uks-nigel-farage-set-to-relaunch-brexit-party-as-anti-lockdown-party-idUSKBN27H1TW

Mind you we should have done things differently like actually closing airports etc.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - smokie
Ain't hindsight great... :-)
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Terry
Expenditure on healthcare in different countries may be an explanation for differing covid outcomes - but is a long way from the complete answer.

UK spends 9.6% of GDP on healthcare - slightly below the EU average of 9.9%.

Gemany spends 11.3% on a higher level of GDP per head. Works out 29% higher than UK

France spends 11.3% on a similar level of GDP per head. Works out 18% higher than UK

Spain spends 8.9% on GDP lower by 23% than UK.

UK has 687 deaths per 1m. Germany 125 = -82%. France = -18%, Spain = +12%

Possibly the issue is more related to:

- effective contingency planning - poor in UK, no stocks of PPE, no plan for care homes etc
- acting quickly - UK poor in March and truly dilatory now (no excuses!)
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Manatee

>> Possibly the issue is more related to:
>>
>> - effective contingency planning - poor in UK, no stocks of PPE, no plan for
>> care homes etc
>> - acting quickly - UK poor in March and truly dilatory now (no excuses!)
>>

I find myself in violent agreement there. The lack of PPE was appalling, as I think was the response (awarding contracts to hastily set up companies set up by chancers and ticking the 'done' box).

This second time around, they were advised in September to have a circuit breaker before now. It's as if their intuition trumps the simple maths of how the numbers are growing and what is already in the pipeline - even from Thursday, hospitalisations will presumably rise for at least 2 weeks and deaths for some time after that.

We have just arranged to see the grandchildren on Wednesday as it will be the last chance for a month. The nonsense of this does not escape me. If it's advisable not to see them on Thursday, then the same must apply to Wednesday. I justify it to myself on the basis that the calculations allow for us to meet up until Wednesday, which is nonsense because the advice was to do this weeks ago.

Actually I'm not too worried. Both we and they have been more or less bottled up and only meeting a very small circle who do similarly.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - CGNorwich
Was in the garden centre this morning buying some bulbs. The place looks like Santa’s Grotto and is fiull of toys, gifts, household goods and clothes. I was advised by a member of staff that they will be remaining open throughout the lockdown and checking the news that does appear to be the case. Garden Centres seem to be deemed as essential services. Seems odd.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - smokie
Other countries had the PPE problems and in particular the care home problems.

Other countries are locking down for a second time.

We are far from being in a unique position and I'm not sure we were or are an awful lot worse on balance than many other European countries (although our ratio of deaths is significantly higher than quite a few).

The one thing the populations seem to have in common is blaming their governments.

Well, that, and individual interpretations of what is acceptable. Everyone has their own - mine is that was OK to holiday.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
Trying to arrange a Remembrance Service in these times is painful. Veterans and Bishops are fine. Ambassadors and Church management are largely a bunch of girls. Except the British Ambassador, he's pretty cool.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
Pretty good if it works out.....

www.bbc.com/news/technology-54780460
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54779499

No need to worry!
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 2 Nov 20 at 21:15
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - zippy
I just read the new rules for the coming lock down and it seems that I won't even be allowed to go and see my elderly parents in their garden.

We did that last time and it worked really well and kept 3 to 4 meters apart the whole time.

This is not going to be good for some older folk.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Zero
If they have any special needs, you can. Their mental health is at risk, so they do and you can.


Edit, I forgot Special Branch is tracking your every move, and you will be arrested, stripped searched thrown in a cell and hosed with freezing water.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 3 Nov 20 at 11:35
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - smokie
but it's you, and only you they are watching Zippy... :-)
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 3 Nov 20 at 16:36
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
No, I think that because Zippy is a priority target then the charge is lead by uniformed personnel.

Non-uniform is reserved for those that they are not targetting so openly.

 Coronavirus Volume 27 - PeterS
>> I just read the new rules for the coming lock down and it seems that
>> I won't even be allowed to go and see my elderly parents in their garden.
>>
>> We did that last time and it worked really well and kept 3 to 4
>> meters apart the whole time.
>>
>> This is not going to be good for some older folk.
>>

Aren’t rules for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men ;)

I shall be applying common sense, minimising risk to me and others but not at the expense of my or anyone’s mental health or general well-being, as I have done all along.

Bear in mind if Kier hindsight Starmer had had his way, we’d just be coming out of his lockdown (which he called a circuit breaker to make it sound different; it wasn’t). Cases would be rising again by the end of November and a lockdown at Christmas guaranteed. It’s still reasonably likely I think, but a certainty under an earlier shorter lockdown. Anyway, wasn’t the whole point ti prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed? We didn’t lockdown earlier and it wasn’t overwhelmed, so it seems to the that later was better, in terms of achieving the objective?
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
>> Bear in mind if Kier hindsight Starmer had had his way, we’d just be coming
>> out of his lockdown (which he called a circuit breaker to make it sound different;
>> it wasn’t). Cases would be rising again by the end of November and a lockdown
>> at Christmas guaranteed. It’s still reasonably likely I think, but a certainty under an earlier
>> shorter lockdown. Anyway, wasn’t the whole point ti prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed? We
>> didn’t lockdown earlier and it wasn’t overwhelmed, so it seems to the that later was
>> better, in terms of achieving the objective?

I assume you'll get the same stick I do for showing your political colours :-P

The term Circuit Breaker came from the scientists in late September; Starmer just adopted it.

Whether they last a fortnight or months lockdowns only do one thing - move the curve on. More crudely they kick the can down the road. It's a delaying tactic until we come up with something better whether trace/test/isolate, a vaccine, a combination of those or something that emerges from the blue.

It will be interesting to see how the mochyn cwta on the other side of Offa's Dyke get on with their 'firebreak'.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 3 Nov 20 at 20:42
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - smokie
I'm sure there is an element of kicking the can down the road, which to me isn't entirely unreasonable to improve the chances of a vaccine being developed, but a properly observed lockdown logically must reduce the spread in the short term and keep it more under control. Surely you can see that?
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
>> . Surely you can see that?

Of course I can but reducing the spread in the short term does exactly that and nothing more.

As soon as you relax it the pressure increases and the peak reappears.

My point, and I think Keir Starmer's, was that a fortnight's hard lockdown coinciding with half term might have been a better compromise than what was announced on Saturday.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Lygonos
Word is that the likelihood of an effective vaccine is high - already some chatter at governmental levels about how to administer it - over 80s and carehome residents will be the guinea pigs lucky early cohort.

 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Duncan
>> Word is that the likelihood of an effective vaccine is high - already some chatter
>> at governmental levels about how to administer it - over 80s and carehome residents will
>> be the guinea pigs lucky early cohort.

Talking to my local pharmacist the other day. We agreed that we didn't want to receive the first vaccine.

Remember Thalidomide?
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Zero

>> Remember Thalidomide?

I think you are well beyond the womb my ole son.

This vaccine is nothing more than a variation of known and well proven techniques.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - smokie
I wonder what happened to the Oxford one which was due in Sept? ISTR they had to pause due to a potential side effect but that turned out to be a false alarm.

There are a number of companies chasing vaccines and also stuff to alleviate the symptoms. There are some very optimistic people on the share dealing boards. It is true that some companies share prices have multiplied hundreds of times (NCYT was 14p in Feb and hit £12 a few weeks back) but there'll be tears from some as they can't all be successful.

But I hope someone is, and soon! :-)
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Zero

>> There are a number of companies chasing vaccines and also stuff to alleviate the symptoms.

Treatment is much improved. Bojo was out for 5 weeks, Trump was out for 5 days.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - bathtub tom
>>Treatment is much improved. Bojo was out for 5 weeks, Trump was out for 5 days.

Do you think Trump really had it? Good for the sympathy vote.

Was Meghan Markle ever pregnant? Where are Elvis, Princess Diana and Sherga?

Don't get me started on the moon landings.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
;>)



 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Zero
>> I'm sure there is an element of kicking the can down the road, which to
>> me isn't entirely unreasonable to improve the chances of a vaccine being developed, but a
>> properly observed lockdown logically must reduce the spread in the short term and keep it
>> more under control. Surely you can see that?

Kicking the can down the road is all anyone can do. There appears to be no agreed or proven distance or frequency for can kicking tho.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - R.P.
Lockdowns aren't going to get rid of it - Lockdowns are all about reducing the infection rate and reducing pressure on the NHS..that's all, nothing more, nothing less.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - PeterS
I have no particulars political affiliation, and never have. I have voted for all major parties over my lifetime (Labour, Liberal and Conservative). Can you say the same? While I’m fortunate and have never needed the NHS. my partner depended on it for most of his live, right up until he died, and overall it let him down. The service in many hospitals around the world, covering every continent, was far better - and that includes places like India and Senegal! A circuit breaker is a lockdown, and it’s duplicitous to pretend otherwise. Attributing it to ‘Scientists’ is just want all political parties want - they don’t want to actually be left holding the can. We all know all they do is shift the curve. We all were told the purpose was to prevent the NHS being overloaded. It hasn’t been, so Kier Starmer has been proved wrong to call for one when he did, and try to make short term political capital out of pressing for one doesn’t persuade me to vote for him. I still believe the NHS is part of the problem, not the solution, and looking around the world at what works and what doesn’t would be a good start.

Lawyers, on the whole, are bad leaders - I’ve engaged a few in my time. The Welsh are neither here nor there though, how Nicola Sturgeon responds on the other hand will be entertaining :)

I’m fortunate, cases where I live are still well below 100 per 100,000. So not being able to go to the pub or a restaurant seems punitive. A national lockdown was never the right answer. On the plus side, my local has been selling beer at £3 a pint this evening to shift stocks before lockdown and they’re pushed out of business. Along with my friends and neighbours, we’ll be taking a pragmatic approach to the lates interventions, as they make no sense at all at a local level.

It’s worth remembering that around 7 million people are employed in retail, hospitality and entertainment. That’s something to think about as we shut the country down, and broadly those sectors employ people who who should be in Labours heartland. But they’re out of touch and don’t recognise that. Those jobs can and may just disappear. It’s the under 40s who will be paying for ever for this, and that’s also labours heartland. I have no skin in the game at all, but at a human level that doesn’t feel right, and someone should be espousing their cause IMO.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 4 Nov 20 at 12:36
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
>>I assume you'll get the same stick I do for showing your political colours

Interesting point and for the avoidance of doubt allow me to clarify my position.

Politically, at least insofar as our individual beliefs, standards, whatever are concerned you and I are not so far apart. Certainly not far apart enough to matter beyond being a subject of debate.

However, you are party political, I am not. You allow your party political allegiances to sway your opinions, typically on people's motivations, and your tolerance or intolerance of their actions.

I have no party allegiances to sway me or colour my views of people who are in one party or another. They are all simply politicians to me. Bit of a job lot of awfulness.

Thus I feel that my views are likely to be more objective, at least in that one area.

If you think back it is usually that bias that I object to, rather than any particular political view that you hold.

Though it is always possible that I am deluding myself.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - VxFan
>> We did that last time and it worked really well and kept 3 to 4 meters apart the whole time.

3 meters isn't very far apart ;)

www.pembrokeshire.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/gas-meter-75706_1280-e1583851208624.jpg
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Nov 20 at 12:46
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - tyrednemotional
...is the higher infection rate on the middle one due to it being exposed on both sides...?
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Zero
Went out for.a curry tonight. Our local reliable good one. On any late autumn tuesday it would 1/3 full. Tonight it was heaving and turning non booked customers away.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - neiltoo
........tonight it was heaving and turning non booked customers away.

Do you think, then, that it was a sensible place to be?
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Terry
It's a well known epidemiological oddity that it is impossible to catch covid in the 48 hours preceding lockdown.

It is certainly a fondly held belief amongst pub, shop, restaurant, and party afficionados. It probably also works for the local curry house!
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - sooty123
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54785032

An article asking some questions of the policy of lockdown. A few tough questions about the projected figures on deaths are based on figures a month old, amongst other questions.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Zero
>The service in many hospitals around the world, covering every continent, was far better - and that includes places like India and Senegal!

From your insurance paid view they might be, Not if you are a poor or average Indian or Senegalian it aint.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Zero
>> ........tonight it was heaving and turning non booked customers away.
>>
>> Do you think, then, that it was a sensible place to be?

Yeah, precautions were good and its a low infection rate area. Would I have got on a train, tube to a London restaurant? no.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - zippy
I went to the barbers today for a short back and sides to get me through the next month.

They were very busy so offered a cut in the ladies salon next door - same firm - what a difference!

Coffee! Pretty staff, comfy chairs!

How the other half live! :-)


Plus, both Mrs and Miss Z commented on what a good job they did! Never had that before!
Last edited by: zippy on Wed 4 Nov 20 at 16:09
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - henry k
>>How the other half live! :-)

After a year without a haircut and self isolating I now have some clippers and very soon will try a totally DIY job. SWMBO now says she likes the longer hair.
Its coming orf !!!
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - God
>>I now have some clippers and very soon will try a totally DIY job

Cutting the back of your hair is the hard bit - all done by mirrors. I haven't been to the 'barbers' for over 20 years.

I sweep it back, all 3 strands of it, then I knot it at back with a small elasticated band.

I keep threatening to cut it all off with my American-made Oster clippers, threaten on :)
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - smokie
@zippy

Ah but I bet you weren't offered "something for the weekend, sir?"



On second thoughts, maybe it's been a while since you had to get your hair cut to get your hands on a pack of johnnies..
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 4 Nov 20 at 18:23
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - zippy
>> @zippy
>>
>> Ah but I bet you weren't offered "something for the weekend, sir?"
>>
>>
>>
>> On second thoughts, maybe it's been a while since you had to get your hair
>> cut to get your hands on a pack of johnnies..
>>

Gawd, it must be 30 years since that phrase has been mentioned!
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
>> Gawd, it must be 30 years since that phrase has been mentioned!

As somebody born at the start of the sixties it was a comedic catchphrase of my teens but realistically, unless you were served by someone who knew your Mum, Boots was pretty easy.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - legacylad
I had my locks shorn Monday AM...after two days walking in high temps with sweat dripping off my nose I thought it a good idea.
Paid €10 ( it’s a very upmarket area) I apologised to the barber for the amount of stuffing on the floor of his shop. Feel much better for it but missing the long hair which had turned an odd shade of gold after 4 weeks relentless sun.
Now saving up for another trim in April....
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - God
1 ° esto aquí esta mañana.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - legacylad
God.
Amigo de mierda dura
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - God
Soared to 7° now, might dig out my mankini.

:o}
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - smokie
I nearly deleted that post Dog as on my phone screen the degree sign looked like an inches sign and I thought we don't want that kind of bragging here!! :-)
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - God
Cold weather see, it shrivels up :o) .. I've got central heating but it's LPG which is a new one for me.

Bad news is LPG (£££), oil (kerosene) is bad enuff but I'd rather have that TBH.

No wood burner here either, well, there is one, a nice Aga Little Wenlock but ... it's in the kitchen!!
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
>>unless you were served by someone who knew your Mum, Boots was pretty easy.

It b***** was not. I used to die a thousand deaths. It is a testament to how much I wanted sex that I went through the traumatic experience so often.

At the time, where I lived all Timothy Whites & Boots employees were female. An embarrassing amount of them were young. Condoms were under the glass and had to be requested.

Questions such as;

"You want what?"
"Sorry, which ones did you say?"
"Did you want ribbed?"

...and many others were all announced, to my blushing ears, devastatingly loudly so that they rang around the shop.

The *ONLY* reason that it was better than the local chemist was because my aunt worked there so a town chemist was less conspicuous..

You'd think machines in pubs would be some respite, but half the time they didn't work at all, most of the rest of the time they stole your money and only a fraction of the time did you actually get the packet you were after.

"Boots was pretty easy"??? Pah, I fart in your general direction!
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 4 Nov 20 at 21:59
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - Robin O'Reliant
>>
>>
>> You'd think machines in pubs would be some respite, but half the time they didn't
>> work at all, most of the rest of the time they stole your money and
>> only a fraction of the time did you actually get the packet you were after.
>>
>>
Or after waiting till the toilet was empty somebody walked in just as the machine was delivering your little packet. The machines made a noise like an unsilenced Norton Commando just to add to your embarrassment.
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
So right, I'd forgotten that.

And how many times after waiting for the counter at Boots to be free of other customers someone came and stood next to you just as you were ordering.

I bought a lot of aspirin over the years.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 4 Nov 20 at 22:04
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - bathtub tom
I remember a girlfriend at the time used to get them - what embarrassment?
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - tyrednemotional
...small....?
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - VxFan
>> Boots was pretty easy.

But wouldn't it keep falling off? Very little sensation as well I would imagine ;)
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - No FM2R
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=27627&m=616182&v=e
 Coronavirus Volume 27 - VxFan
;)
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - No FM2R
On 17th June Chile was running at 53.12 cases per 100k pop.

Having fallen every day since then Chile is now 7.01 cases per 100k.

It is falling slowly, but it continues to fall.

Schools are starting to go back, but the year ends in 5 weeks anyway. Summer holidays until March.

Other than the schools, it seems to me that the Chileans are far more willing to change their routines and lives to avoid the virus than the Brits (going by the media reports from England, dangerous I know). All shops have very low capacities, no eating or drinking inside, every shop, office or other establishment has someone on the door checking masks, temperatures and spraying alcohol gel around.

Ditto buses & metro.

It is very very rare you see someone without a mask. And they get ticketed if an official sees them - about £120, I think.

And of course we're late spring here, so the weather is helping.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Duncan
>> On 17th June Chile was running at 53.12 cases per 100k pop.
>>
>> Having fallen every day since then Chile is now 7.01 cases per 100k.
>>
>> It is falling slowly, but it continues to fall.

Where are your figures from?

Worldometers (if I read it correctly...) says the maximum new cases on 7 day rolling was 6,971 per million (697 per 100k) on June 16th.

Latest figure is 1,359 per million (136 per 100k) at Nov 4th - 7 day rolling.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/chile/

Please accept my grovelling apology if I am up the creek.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - No FM2R
www.gob.cl/coronavirus/cifrasoficiales/

e.g. this last week....

Daily new cases
1,520
1,521
1,685
1,608
1,324
1,014
840
Thus 7 day average 1,359

1,359 per 19.450,000 (total pop)

=

7 per 100,000

>>Please accept my grovelling apology if I am up the creek.

Likewise.

NB. Chile's figures were repeatedly revised in April, May, June as they found various errors,. miscounts and mistakes. The monthly report link above is not retrospectively adjusted. Adjustments are [were] typically done in the current days figures when they are [were] found

Nonetheless, the trend has been and continues to be, downward. I find that more significant than the actual values.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Kevin
I received a letter from DHSC this morning.

Apparently I'm one of 100,000 lucky people in England chosen at random to take part in another Covid-19 study.

www.reactstudy.org/

One in 100,000 eh? I've been out and bought a lottery ticket.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - henry k
>>One in 100,000 eh? I've been out and bought a lottery ticket.
>>

I hope thats all you have collected.
An essential journey :-)
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - CGNorwich
I think I mentioned that we were selected for the survey conducted by Oxford University on behalf of the Offiice for National Statistics. After a shaky start is iseems to be running more regularly now and we have had four tests each. When I signed up I didn’t realise we would be rewarded for or participation. We get £50 each in John Lewis vouchers for the first test and £25 each for each for the next 16 tests, Not bad for ten minutes of our time per test. We have indeed won the lottery! :-)
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 7 Nov 20 at 18:17
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - tyrednemotional
>> We get £50 each in John Lewis vouchers for the first test and £25 each for each for the
>> next 16 tests
>>

...better than a poke in the eye nose with a sharp stick....


;-)
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - legacylad
When I return from Spain in just over a month ( or longer) am I correct in thinking that i can take a Covid test after 7 days, and once the results are in, hopefully negative, I no longer have to quarantine ?
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - tyrednemotional
...since the discovery (genome studies) that the current outbreak largely emanated from Spain, and was (re-)introduced by returning holidaymakers, the duration of quarantine for returnees from Spain has been increased to two months, with no option for a test.....
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - legacylad
Ah. No point flying home then as I’m returning in January.
Want to buy any vit D as my body has a surfeit ?
Latest figures for my area are 70 per 100,000 which is similar to the Canaries I think. Being an anti social grit I saw one other walker today on my mountain walk, plus a bloke with a very long gun ! I smiled and legged it.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Runfer D'Hills
Was he called Lance?

As you were...

;-)
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - God
>>I saw one other walker today on my mountain walk

100% more than me.

>>plus a bloke with a very long gun

Happiness is a warm gun.

:)
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Crankcase

>> Happiness is a warm gun.
>>

Puppy, surely.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - God
Mother Superior leapt the gundog.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - tyrednemotional
>> Ah. No point flying home then as I’m returning in January.
>>

I have been guilty of misleading 'jokes' before with unintended consequences.

Only part of my post bears any relationship with the truth.

;-)

(Someone has to take the reins from the Donald)


 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - legacylad
I knew you were being facetious!

This lockdown thing, only essential travel blah blah. Two friends of mine flew from the U.K. to Spain yesterday. Another two caught the ferry to France and have just arrived, after buying a bootful of vin en route.Simple as that. Welcome back to Spain.

Supposedly there may be fines if caught transgressing the ‘advice’ but their travel was unhindered, smooth pain free journeys and they are very pleased to be here with the latest regional infection rate being 70 per 100,000.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Netsur
I have never quite understood why the Test and Trace system did not use the military (simply as a source of government funded bodies) to.. you know, actually visit those required to self-isolate and check they were doing it. A Land Rover full of squaddies turning up at a council estate, and knocking on the door with words of concern and encouragement would do more to keep people indoors that any polite request from the PM.

With stories of people not answering the phone, ignoring the requirement to self-isolate etc etc thinking that they can't get caught, there has to be a way to persude people that they will get fined if found away from their house.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - CGNorwich
One would hope that in a Pandemic most people would see the sense in obeying the rules to slow the spread of the disease for the benefit of all.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - smokie
Dream on...


I got back from Portugal less than an hour ago, one of the smoothest, most pleasant and hassle-free end-to-end trips I've ever had I think. Returning the rental car always worries me as you hear these horror stories about the cheapo places but they were good.We'd paid extra for front row seats on the flight but it was only about half full anyway. Due to the shortage of travellers your luggage comes through really quickly and the M1/M4 were pretty empty.

The only shocker was the cost of a couple of coffees and cakes at the airport - nearly €14, whereas the same in Portugal is about €5 tops.

One woman a few rows back on the flight had a fairly extensive coughing fit but I've been caught the same in public - you need a good cough to clear something but you don't want to because people stare. So your small coughs just go on and on and on. (I think the cause of my occasional coughs - which I've had for ages -0 is a hangover from smoking - despite having now been a non-smoker for more than 5 years)
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - No FM2R
>>now been a non-smoker for more than 5 years

Good for you. About 16 years now for me. Might be 17, I lost count. Or 15 for that matter.

I was oblivious to my cough. It wasn't until a little while after I gave up and people started saying "thank goodness you got rid of that godawful cough" that I even realised I'd had one.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
>> One would hope that in a Pandemic most people would see the sense in obeying
>> the rules to slow the spread of the disease for the benefit of all.
>>

Best estimate so far is 1 in 4 comply fully.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - legacylad
Quite so. That’s why my 4 friends decided to fly/drive to Spain in the last 48 hours. Very low infection rates where I am, good weather resulting in an outdoor lifestyle until sunset. Far better for the body and mind both physically and emotionally than being cooped up at home.

As for the mental health aspect....Sunday breakfast outside on a warm sunny terrace (25C high today) seriously lifts my spirits, not that I’m normally a morose person, and must be advantageous in these strange times.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
>> I have never quite understood why the Test and Trace system did not use the
>> military (simply as a source of government funded bodies) to.. you know, actually visit those
>> required to self-isolate and check they were doing it. A Land Rover full of squaddies
>> turning up at a council estate, and knocking on the door with words of concern
>> and encouragement would do more to keep people indoors that any polite request from the
>> PM.

That's the police's job, the military have authority to order or fine people for not carrying out self isolation. Plus they'd be all manner of complaints of being in an authoritarian state, troops on the street etc.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Netsur
Not asking the military to levy any fines or tell people off. Just do the tracing and checking. If anyone is found not self-isolating it is reported back to the relevant authorities.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Robin O'Reliant
I can see "A Land Rover full of squaddies" banging on the front door of a council flat on the Nelson Mandela Estate in south London leading to a social problem or two ;-)
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - tyrednemotional
>> I can see "A Land Rover full of squaddies" banging on the front door of
>> a council flat on the Nelson Mandela Estate in south London leading to a social
>> problem or two ;-)
>>

...they could trial the approach in Northern Ireland.....

;-)
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - God
>>I can see "A Land Rover full of squaddies" banging on the front door of a council flat on the Nelson Mandela Estate in south London leading to a social problem or two ;-)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFyC7LWos1U



 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
>> Not asking the military to levy any fines or tell people off. Just do the
>> tracing and checking. If anyone is found not self-isolating it is reported back to the
>> relevant authorities.
>>

If it's a local authority task, if they want it doing then it's on them. They want the military to do it, then (with a few exemptions) then they have to pay for them under MACA.

Although to be honest I don't see what they can do anyway.

Is so and so in and self isolating?
Yes.
Can I see them?
No.
Err...

How many doors would need to be knocked on, 10000 a day?
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
I forgot to add MACA is aid to the civil authority.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/2015-to-2020-government-policy-military-aid-to-the-civil-authorities-for-activities-in-the-uk/2015-to-2020-government-policy-military-aid-to-the-civil-authorities-for-activities-in-the-uk


'When military support is provided the civil authorities normally have to pay for it, in line with HM Treasury rules.'

 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Kevin
Just watched Dido Harding facing the select committee about 'Corona Virus: Lessons Learnt'.

My Glub that woman is slippier than a bucket of eels. I don't think she actually answered a single question. She ducked, dived and sidestepped everything. It wasn't her fault, no one could have forseen that demand for tests would rise when kids went back to school and Uni.
Their contact rate is so crap because people don't like answering calls from national numbers but 80% of the people they do contact are satisfied with the service - she obviously hasn't heard of all the folks getting dozens of calls with the isolation clock reset with every call.
Worst of all, our b***** MPs just let it ride. One or two of them told her she hadn't answered the question but she just rephrased exactly what she had already said and not one of them pulled her up and said "Answer the £$%^ing question woman!"
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
The reports of Sir John Bell's evidence to the same Committee make interesting reading.

tinyurl.com/yyk36fay (Guardian's running narrative).
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Duncan
>> Just watched Dido Harding facing the select committee about 'Corona Virus: Lessons Learnt'.
>>
>> My Glub that woman is slippier than a bucket of eels.
>>

I thought she was very good. I would rather have her inside the tent etc, etc.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Kevin
>I thought she was very good. I would rather have her inside the tent etc, etc.

I wouldn't worry about whether she's in the tent or out of it. The only P'ing she's doing is billions of beer tokens up against the wall.
Not only is she incompetent, she's arrogant and making a complete pig's ear out of what we are constantly being told is an essential tool in combatting the spread of CV-19.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
>> Worst of all, our b***** MPs just let it ride. One or two of them
>> told her she hadn't answered the question but she just rephrased exactly what she had
>> already said and not one of them pulled her up and said "Answer the £$%^ing
>> question woman!"
>>

I doubt it would make the slightest bit of difference, people go there to put their version of events forward, not to answer the questions.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Zero
Our B MP's are only interested in getting soundbites and a face on TV. The secondary target is to push a party line. The questions or the answers are irrelevant.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 10 Nov 20 at 16:00
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - smokie
A Twitter link which includes a very sobering (and worrying) video from a nurse in an El Paso hospital.

twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1327600202392408064
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - martin aston
Boris is self-isolating. I am amazed that he is not being given the rapid tests apparently to avoid accusations of queue jumping. This means things like crucial Brexit meetings will be done by phone until he has served his isolation period.

This obsession with looking egalitarian is misplaced. Whoever is in power I want them to be medically fit to lead. Not virtue signalling. After all the idea that he, or any major politician, is just like the rest of us is laughable.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Zero
>> Boris is self-isolating.

More like he is Self Insulating! What about Princess Nut Nuts?
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
>> More like he is Self Insulating! What about Princess Nut Nuts?

Who?
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 18 Nov 20 at 11:16
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - God
>>Who?

Ewe need to get out moor, sooty:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8948729/No-10-braces-explosive-stunt-Cummings-Princess-Nut-Nuts-gave-coup-grace.html
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - No FM2R
So she's allegedly behind Cumming's departure, the country's favourite scapegoat, and she gets crap for it?

Right, that makes sense.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
Clearly so, why is that her nickname though?
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 18 Nov 20 at 11:16
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Zero

>> Clearly so, why is that her nickname though?


Ms Symonds was reportedly labelled a 'princess' for what her foes claimed was regal behaviour while the 'nut' is believed to be a poor-taste joke about her being 'crazy'.
.
.
.
Ms Symonds' adversaries are said to have used the 'Princess Nut Nut' name so much that they started using an emoji of a princess followed by two peanuts instead of words in text messages
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
>> Clearly so, why is that her nickname though?


Depending on what you read she bombards him with messages about policy or he's utterly indecisive* and relies on her for advice.

At least by inference the nickname came from Cain/Cummings or other Brexit ultras and implied she's barmy or lacking in intelligence.

*Interviewing Handcock on the Today prog yesterday Nick Robinson suggested that the lockdown leak on 30/31 October was engineered because BoJo wouldn't make a decision. Handcock responded with something about going off into the long grass and the point went no further.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 17 Nov 20 at 17:53
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Zero

>> *Interviewing Handcock on the Today prog yesterday Nick Robinson suggested that the lockdown leak on
>> 30/31 October was engineered because BoJo wouldn't make a decision.

Given that he couldn't decide on wether to be pro or anti EU why are we un the least bit surprised? The fact that Bojo is a Richard head, was well known and is now coming home to roost.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - tyrednemotional
>> Boris is self-isolating.
>>

....I was rather hoping for self-immolating......
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - God
Self combusting more like it.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
>> Self combusting more like it.

His comments last night in teleconference with his MPs have written Ms Sturgeon's manifesto for her.

Or is he laying the ground for saying "It was Blair's fault for starting with Devolution" when the UK implodes?
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
I don't think it's that, more like it just came out. He's not very discrete about anything really.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 17 Nov 20 at 17:59
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
>> I don't think it's that, more like it just came out. He's not very discrete
>> about anything really.

Oh it almost certainly did: he is, as you infer, a master of verbal diorreah.

No less valuable to the SNP for that.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
>> No less valuable to the SNP for that.

I don't think he's at all bothered tbh. The SNP hold the bulk of seats already any more they win are in a way meaningless, he's not going to give them another vote neither are Labour.

2024 is a long way away, I'm not sure how much that will be remembered come the next election anyway.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 18 Nov 20 at 11:16
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
>> I don't think he's at all bothered tbh. The SNP hold the bulk of seats
>> already any more they win are in a way meaningless, he's not going to give
>> them another vote neither are Labour.
>>
>> 2024 is a long way away, I'm not sure how much that will be remembered
>> come the next election anyway.

The next Holyrood election is 2021. If, as now looks possible, the SNP get a majority in the Scottish Parliament, notwithstanding PR, how does London deal with that as a mandate for Indyref2?
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
He'll deal with it the same as he's dealing with it now.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Duncan
>> >> I don't think it's that, more like it just came out. He's not very
>> discrete
>> >> about anything really.

Do you mean discreet?

>>
>> Oh it almost certainly did: he is, as you infer, a master of verbal diorreah.
>>

Do you mean imply?


 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sherlock47
>>more like it just came out. <<<

not the first time, is it?
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Zero
Bit like his willy.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - No FM2R
>>This obsession with looking egalitarian is misplaced. Whoever is in power I want them to be medically fit to lead. Not virtue signalling. After all the idea that he, or any major politician, is just like the rest of us is laughable.

This. 100%.
 Minor op and testing - smokie
Daughter is having a day op to correct a carpal tunnel problem next Tues, ten miles or so away.

She has to attend for a Covid test on Sunday then self isolate and present herself at the hospital at 07:00 on Tuesday, not arriving by public transport (...presumably to avoid infection. They didn't offer her transport.

She won't be able drive after the op.

She is living with us anyway at the moment so one of us will drive her in and pick her up but I'm not sure that's the intent. I just wonder whether the hosp thought through what they had requested she does.

(As we're still quarantined from Portugal till Sat we'll stay quarantined till after she goes in on Tues. I suspect she will be more of a risk to us on her return than any risk we encountered in our 6+ week Portugal trip!!)
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - No FM2R
I saw a statement by the WHO this morning that said if mask wearing was at 90% then lockdowns would be unnecessary but that mask wearing was only at 60% in the UK.

Is that right? Seems low.

It's very, very unusual that you ever see anybody here without a mask, and without one you are not allowed in anywhere. And you'll get a ticket if spotted. And when I say "unusual" I mean I've probably seen two or three in a couple of months and then tend to get told quite quickly by other people.

 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Bobby
Lots of folk here can’t wear masks because of “underlying health issues”.
Who are just the people who need protected most!!
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - No FM2R
They actually can't, or it's just an excuse?

And would you say 60% was right?

No wonder fatalities are so high with that approach.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Pezzer
Seems low to me inside a shop although my only experience is the supermarket and I would say that most people do wear masks. Perhaps 1 in 20 does not.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - James Loveless
"Lots of folk here can't wear masks because of "underlying health issues".
Who are just the people who need protected most!!"

This seems to illustrate a common misperception. Masks don't offer much protection to the wearer, but they do help to prevent an infected person from spreading the virus. Wearing a mask is as much about acting in a responsible way towards other people as anything else.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
I don't think it's monitored, not sure how you'd get any rough figure?

There are places that won't challenge anyone not wearing one, company policy. So I doubt it's as high as Chile.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - CGNorwich
I would say that that that in the two supermarkets I have visited, Waitrose and the Co-op mask wearing was pretty much 100% as it is in the small local baker and butcher we use. Until the lockdown I was volunteering at a visitor Centre in a reserve and again mask wearing was universal. A few people forgot to put them on but a gentle reminder was all that was needed. The only person who said he couldn’t wear a mask had just had eye surgery and his surgeon had told him not to wear one for a week. Seemed fair enough.

Now the cold weather is here they don’t seem so bad. Keep your face warm!
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
Been in all local Supermarkets except Lidl so Aldi, Waitrose, Sainsbury, Co-op Morrisons and Tesco and mask wearing is perhaps 98-99%. Same in Halfords and DIY stores. Of those who were not a few wore the 'sunflower' lanyards that imply mask exempt. A tiny number were young men and one a gobby young Mother who might well be 'refusers'.

There was though a piece in the Guardian earlier in the week about an area of Hull that scored high on deprivation indices where mask wearing was <60%. It's socially mixed in Northampton but we're on west and deprivation tends to be highest in the 'eastern districts'. Waitrose and Aldi are in Towcester which is, for the most part, reasonably well heeled.

I used to cover advice sessions there occasionally and issues presenting were much more 'middle class/first world' stuff than at the drop in in Northampton.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
There was though a piece in the Guardian earlier in the week about an area
>> of Hull that scored high on deprivation indices where mask wearing was <60%. It's socially
>> mixed in Northampton but we're on west and deprivation tends to be highest in the
>> 'eastern districts'. Waitrose and Aldi are in Towcester which is, for the most part, reasonably
>> well heeled.

I don't get the link, why wouldn't people wear them based on wealth?
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Lygonos
>>I don't get the link, why wouldn't people wear them based on wealth?

summertime75.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/tumblr_prqai171i91rpduwho1_500.gif
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Bromptonaut
>> I don't get the link, why wouldn't people wear them based on wealth?

The theory is that compliance is lower in areas of social deprivation for which income/wealth is determinative.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - sooty123
I get that, I'm asking why.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Lygonos

Fatalism, someone else's problem, and sticking it to the man.

Bit like Brexit.

All ends up with you leaving a turd on your own doorstep.

 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - No FM2R
>>Bit like Brexit

There was a definite link between Brexit voting and low education / less wealthy. I'd refer to my other post about those seeking a scapegoat and those left behind.

Dunno why they'd have less respect for the lives of each other though.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Fullchat
Dunno why they'd have less respect for the lives of each other though.

Because they can?

Indoctrinated by social media that this is all a conspiracy manufactured by the social elite etc etc.

And as for this 'underlying health issue' thing I would suggest in 99% of the cases its R*******. They have been granted a little bit of empowerment in their lives and are exploiting it.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - Zero
>> I saw a statement by the WHO this morning that said if mask wearing was
>> at 90% then lockdowns would be unnecessary but that mask wearing was only at 60%
>> in the UK.
>>
>> Is that right? Seems low.

Seems low to me too, Based on my experience i'd put it at least 90%
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - bathtub tom
I shopped at an ALDI. SWMBO was so incensed at the lack of masks she emailed the CEO.
Got a typical reply and a fortnight later, three of the floor staff (of five) weren't wearing masks.
We walked out and haven't returned since.
 Coronavirus - Volume 27 - smokie
A very long and boring video which has apparently been removed by YouTube.

The guy is an ex Pfizer VP and this is his view on why lockdown was a mistake. I've not watched it all by a long chalk but some may be interested.

lbry.tv/@clive:6/Mike-Yeadon-Unlocked-Why-Lockdown-was-a-mistake:5

(I don't see how lockdown doesn't work, seems eminently sensible to me)

His garage looks of more interest :-)
 Incompetence - smokie
More proof that the Government ignored all the warnings... (links to the Sun)

tinyurl.com/y28tgyxx
 Taking back control - smokie
bylinetimes.com/2020/11/20/covid-19-testing-chaos-half-a-million-tests-sent-abroad/
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