Non-motoring > Coronvirus Vaccine Buying / Selling
Thread Author: No FM2R Replies: 31

 Coronvirus Vaccine - No FM2R
Important enough for it's own thread, I think.


www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54873105
 Coronvirus Vaccine - sooty123
'However there are logistical challenges, as the vaccine has to be kept in ultra-cold storage at below minus 80C.'

I'm not sure how many storage and transport facilities are able to keep that cold and effectively distribute it?
 Coronvirus Vaccine - No FM2R
They could get my wife to give it a nasty stare, that'd take it well below -80.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - Lygonos
No real technical difficulty - liquid nitrogen in -196°C and cheaper than milk.

When I heard about this a month or two back my understanding is it can be fridged for a few days after being removed from cryo storage.

Probably means vaccines would be based in hubs rather than GP surgeries.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - sooty123
I know it's technically possible, I was thinking about how many storage and transport facilities there are. Have the storage units been designed, built and tested? That sort of thing interests me.
I think that's important how long can it safely be outside - 80c?
 Coronvirus Vaccine - CGNorwich
No doubt Trump will claim this news suppressed by the Deep State until after election.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - Zero
>> No doubt Trump will claim this news suppressed by the Deep State until after election.

He's posted it on his twitter page as one of his achievements.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - tyrednemotional
I understand Pfizer are considering mixing Viagra in with some of the doses, giving some both a reason and the means to celebrate....

;-)
 Coronvirus Vaccine - CGNorwich
>> >> No doubt Trump will claim this news suppressed by the Deep State until after
>> election.
>>
>> He's posted it on his twitter page as one of his achievements.
>>

I guess he also takes credit for the dramatic rise in share prices today.


Still I understand his philosophy is "you win some, you lose some" so I suspect he's just chilling our today. He's been very quiet. He must be looking looking forward to going to the Biden's big bash I expect
 Coronvirus Vaccine - Zero
>> I guess he also takes credit for the dramatic rise in share prices today.

You are physic. His tweet was

quote

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

STOCK MARKET UP BIG, VACCINE COMING SOON. REPORT 90% EFFECTIVE. SUCH GREAT NEWS!
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 10 Nov 20 at 11:54
 Coronvirus Vaccine - henry k
>> >> No doubt Trump will claim this news suppressed by the Deep State until after
>> election.
>>
>> He's posted it on his twitter page as one of his achievements.
>>
Did he include details like
Coronavirus Cases:10,302,180 and Deaths: 243,819
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

We will miss gems like
US Election Result 2020: "We are up BIG, but they are trying to STEAL the Election. We will never let them do it. Votes cannot be cast after the Poles are closed!"

 Coronvirus Vaccine - CGNorwich
Latest Tweet

The
@US_FDA
and the Democrats didn’t want to have me get a Vaccine WIN, prior to the election, so instead it came out five days later – As I’ve said all along!
 Coronvirus Vaccine - Rudedog
Just thought I’d write and give an insight as to what we have been told at our Trust regarding the vaccine.

Currently we have peer to peer vaccinations going on for the flu and the same staff were briefed last week regarding how they will also take on the job of staff cv-19 jabs.

Interestingly the info we have been given seems to differ quite a lot from what I’m hearing in the press over the past few days.

The aim is to have all Trust staff vaccinated by the end of December!
Two injections are required but our info only puts them three weeks apart (not the two months as I’ve heard reported), it might seem obvious but the same brand of vaccine has to be given for the second jab.
After each injection the member of staff will be required to lay flat for at least fifteen minutes in case of any adverse reactions.

All staff by the end of December seems a bit ambitious unless they know something we don’t regarding the vaccine’s current availability, plus many of my colleagues have already said that they won’t have it until it’s been tested properly, apparently the main reason you have to lay flat is because it will still an unlicensed product which doesn’t fill many with much confidence (also effectively taking a multiple members of staff out of the workplace for fifteen minutes each time isn’t going to work out well).


Anyhow, as soon as things start I’ll give you all an update…

 Coronvirus Vaccine - Crankcase
Well, this is similar to what my local surgery is saying. I've posted it below. As you can see if you plough through it, they are not exactly enthusiastic about it. Not at all.


__

Headlines last week spoke of “Covid vaccine by Xmas from GPs”. What does this mean for me?
Whilst we certainly would want to be involved in any vaccination campaign, we don’t have any information ourselves yet and contrary to media reports no ‘deals’ have yet been done, but we expect more information soon

But isn’t it just like a flu jab?
No, not by a long stretch.

Flu jabs are delivered in their own little syringes, and kept refrigerated. They can safely last in a vaccine fridge for several months. We can keep them and use them, either in dedicated flu clinics or opportunistically if we see you for something else. We can run the clinics a bit like a conveyor belt, as I’m sure many of you will have experienced. We can get a large number of people vaccinated in a very short period of time. People then leave the practice immediately. Once a year, job done.
So what’s different about a new Covid vaccine compared with the flu jab?
These new vaccines are not yet ready, and we don’t know when they will be. They are completely different. They need to be stored frozen in special dry ice, colder than a home freezer (about -70°C). Surgeries don’t have those freezers. So they will be delivered whilst they are defrosting for use. However they can inky be stored in a vaccine fridge for a few days before expiring. They don’t come in their own little syringes. We will have to carefully draw them up from a main vial, dilute and mix them for each individual which will probably take from start to finish about 20 minutes, needing two members of staff (one to draw up, one to check - this is established safe practise with these preparations to minimise error). Once the patient has received their Covid-jab they must wait for 15 minutes to ensure no serious reaction -these vaccines are brand new, and whilst there is a huge regulatory framework to ensure their safety, we will have to take extra care. This in itself will be difficult as we have to maintain social distancing and we don’t know how quickly these clinics will take place. It will be nowhere near as quick as a flu clinic.
Will this be at my local GP surgery?
To begin with, NHS England thinks that areas will have one central Covid-jab centre. This might be in a local practice. It might be yours, it might not. You may have to travel. How the chosen centre will continue to look after its patients ongoing and urgent health needs, we don’t yet know. No details of those plans have been shared yet.
Is it just one jab?
No. You will need two. They will be 3-4 weeks apart but you must not have had any other vaccinations in the previous week.
How many patients will get it the vaccine when it’s ready?
Government says it wants 40 million people vaccinated (that’s 80 million appointments). Putting that into context, every year there are 40 million A&E attendances and 360 million GP appointments. This is going to take a long time. There are no spare GPs or practice nurses. We don’t yet know how we are going to plan for this on top of what we are doing now - managing hundreds of acute and chronic patients every day: on the phone, over video and being brought into the surgery by invitation.
Will it be available by Christmas?
No one knows. But if it is, there will be a very small number of doses and we think the Government might suggest protecting Care Home residents first.

Whatever you read in the paper or online, don’t forget - this is going to be very difficult. We need to make sure there is a safe system and a safe vaccine first.

Even when it comes, it won’t prevent Covid, it will only make its effects milder. So please bear with us - we are in the dark too.

And there is still every reason to think ‘Hands, Space, Safe’ for a long time to come.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - CGNorwich
Sounds like your surgery management are defeated before they have even begun. What a negative defeatist reaction to such a positive development. Your outfit seems even more dismally more inefficient than mine.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - Terry
The emphasis must be put on how to get it done, not why it is so difficult. This is not an economic argument (although it will help massively), but simply about healthcare resources and fatalities.

Far better to spend a relatively small amount of resource (money and time) to vaccinate, than a much larger amount treating those who get infected, and who even after hospital and ICU may ultimately die. This is particularly true for the vulnerable and elderly who seem to be the priority group.

I do not believe it is an impossibility - if Nightingales can be built in a few weeks, testing ramped up 50 fold in six months, vaccines developed in less than 20% of notrmal times - this is really just a moderate challenge to get control of the virus.

 Coronvirus Vaccine - No FM2R
Chile has a superb vaccination infrastructure though obviously it is a much smaller population - just under 20 million.

They complete the flu vaccination every year in a couple of weeks, and most people get it, including children.

Injecting their population twice will be a totally manageable challenge. If the vaccination is available then everybody will get it in short order, I have no doubt.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - sooty123
>> Chile has a superb vaccination infrastructure though obviously it is a much smaller population -
>> just under 20 million.
>>
>> They complete the flu vaccination every year in a couple of weeks, and most people
>> get it, including children.
>>
>> Injecting their population twice will be a totally manageable challenge. If the vaccination is available
>> then everybody will get it in short order, I have no doubt.
>>

All done at a GP type centre or one off centres set up?
 Coronvirus Vaccine - No FM2R
>>All done at a GP type centre or one off centres set up?

Schools, local small health centres, pop-up centres, and mobile.

You can get it done at hospitals on demand, but then you have to pay more so most people don't.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - sooty123
Your GP actually put that out? I guess some people are scared by anything new and don't want to change.

Probably best if the government don't involve people with that sort of attitude, take out of their hands and put into mass vaccination centres.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - Crankcase
I have to say on all other fronts they are pretty good, except that like everywhere else they now do that slightly intrusive triage thing when you call, and over the past year it's gone from "appointment? Sure, come down this afternoon" to "well, we're booking for three weeks away".

But once you're in their clutches they are really nice and responsive, everyone is smiley and cheerful, and they always take time to listen and deal with you properly. They are a real village asset as a rule.

I happened to be there last week, and in conversation they said they had ten thousand people on the books. Given there are only about four thousand in the village, the next two villages have their own separate surgeries and then it's Cambridge, I'm not sure why so many. But I do know they have four doctors and sixteen support staff, so ten thousand seems like a lot of people for them to deal with to me.

 Coronvirus Vaccine - tyrednemotional
>> Given there are only about four thousand in the village,
>> the next two villages have their own separate surgeries and then it's Cambridge, I'm not
>> sure why so many.
>>
>>

...because that defines the practice income... ;-)
 Coronvirus Vaccine - Crankcase

>> ...because that defines the practice income... ;-)


Yes, I meant where are they all coming from?
 Coronvirus Vaccine - No FM2R
>> we don’t have any information ourselves

That should have started and finished with that.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - Rudedog

You might already know this but you can't have the flu jab and cv-19 jab at the same time, in fact there must be at least a month between the two.

 Coronvirus Vaccine - No FM2R
www.bbc.com/news/health-54986208

betterer and betterer
 Coronvirus Vaccine - smokie
Hope so.

Here's an interesting read from the BMJ

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425?fbclid=IwAR1FdAh46p0IkHpI1OZvOLtEtlEKbrJUKhOhcQj9xalXvaqglJmFx1iB24s
 Coronvirus Vaccine - No FM2R
www.bbc.com/news/health-55016023
 Coronvirus Vaccine - Zero
Mrs Z, who's RCN registration had been reinstated at the start of the pandemic, has been contacted by NHS England to work on the vaccination drive.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Nov 20 at 16:08
 Coronvirus Vaccine - No FM2R
www.theverge.com/2020/11/23/21590985/oxford-university-astrazeneca-vaccine-coronavirus-covid-19-trial-effectiveness

www.bbc.com/news/health-55040635

Two links because the articles are a bit different.
 Coronvirus Vaccine - Netsur
It's really curious that the half dose at first gives better results than a full dose.

That will have the scientists scratching their heads for a while. But the good news means that there is more to go around...
 Coronvirus Vaccine - CGNorwich
I see that Quantas are saying that they will be asking for proof of vaccination from passengers when it is available. I expect this will also actually be required by most other airlines and countries so there will be a need for some sort of certification of vaccination.
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