Continuing our recent DIY SOS theme, I need to replace a toilet cistern valve at the caravan, identical to this one:
tinyurl.com/6d2fce2
The problem is there's not much room in the cistern.
The old valve will not lift out because the flange at its base fouls on the siphon.
In other words, the valve must be put in before the siphon.
My question is how to remove the siphon?
It looks a fairly standard one, made of blue and white plastic.
Uncoupling the flushing handle is simple enough, but I will need to get the main assembly out of the cistern, or at least move it across an inch to create some clearance.
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The syphon will be retained in the same way as the valve, a nut under the cistern. Can't you just replace the "guts" of the valve, retaining the bottom entry stem?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 13 Jan 11 at 18:47
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...Can't you just replace the "guts" of the valve, retaining the bottom entry stem?...
Unfortunately not.
The stem burst in the recent frosts.
It looks like a carrot snapped in half.
Loosening/moving/removing the siphon doesn't sound too difficult.
Of course, I will break the watertight seal doing it.
I wonder if it's likely to remake OK?
Last edited by: Iffy on Thu 13 Jan 11 at 18:59
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Is this close coupled or a high level cistern?
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I'm not familiar with the terminology, but it must be close-coupled.
The base of the cistern rests on the rear of the pan - no visible pipe between them.
Similar to this:
tinyurl.com/6zuww82
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>> I'm not familiar with the terminology, but it must be close-coupled.
>>
>> The base of the cistern rests on the rear of the pan - no visible
>> pipe between them.
>>
>> Similar to this:
>>
>> tinyurl.com/6zuww82
>>
>>
There will be a couple of nuts at the back of the pan either side of the syphon outlet, undo these and you will be able to lift the cistern off, there is usually a soft rubber donut shaped seal between the cistern and pan. when you have the cistern in your hand all will be easily accessible.
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...undo these and you will be able to lift the cistern off...
I'm not sure lifting the cistern - the china bit that holds the water - will help me.
Part of the siphon will still be obscuring the hole in the bottom of the cistern into which I want to poke the new valve.
Unless unbolting the cistern also frees the siphon.
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>> ...undo these and you will be able to lift the cistern off...
>>
>> I'm not sure lifting the cistern - the china bit that holds the water -
>> will help me.
>>
>> Part of the siphon will still be obscuring the hole in the bottom of the
>> cistern into which I want to poke the new valve.
>>
>> Unless unbolting the cistern also frees the siphon.
>>
>>
You need to remove the cistern to get at the syphon retaining nut.
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...You need to remove the cistern to get at the syphon retaining nut...
Ah, thanks ON, it's becoming clearer - slowly.
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>> ...You need to remove the cistern to get at the syphon retaining nut...
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>> Ah, thanks ON, it's becoming clearer - slowly.
>>
>>
The syphon is retained by a bigger version of the valve retaining nut.
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all of it should just lift off, the cistern complete with the siphon assembly.
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>> Fit a new cistern.
Buy a new caravan.
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...Fit a new cistern...Buy a new caravan...
I don't like the way this is heading, we've gone from £4 to about £250 to £40,000.
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£250! I'd want an entire bathroom suite for that...
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Oh PU, I was hoping to keep that quiet ! Didn't want everyone here knowing about my new caravan. Ah well, I suppose the cat's out of the bag now...
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That glorified garden shed is worth more than my house !
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...Or £500 000 in the colony...
More details here: thewarren.haulfryn.co.uk/holiday-homes-for-sale
Most of the units are 20ft wide, and they are made by bolting two 10ft caravans together.
To compare, my static is 12ft wide.
Lengths are all around 38ft.
I've not seen units with quite such a high spec in England, but there are similarly sized lodges near me in North Yorkshire for around £100,000.
As with any accommodation, it's location, location, location.
This area of Wales must be very desirable.
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Ohh this is going to be great entertainment!
Sometimes the bottom plastic nut underneath the cistern that holds the syphon on also attaches a metal bracket to the bottom of the cistern. The bracket has bolts that slide in either side to pull the cistern down to the pan on a rubber donut seal.
This is a replacement kit for that type of arrangement and I'd buy a new one to have a new donut seal to hand and fresh bolts in case the old ones are rusty.
www.toolstation.com/images/library/stock/webbig/85615.jpg
The other cistern attachment method you might have is two bolts (often nylon) that can be seen inside the cistern and go right through to under the pan flange. These add two extra places to leak when they go through the pan and mean every time you remove the pan you have to take the water out and dry with a towel to stop that last little bit going on the floor as you release the bolts.
There is a picture of a replacement bolt kit shown for that arrangement on the 4th post down in this thread...
www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=222339
You might note a familiar username as the thread originator and if you scroll down a bit more the 2nd and 3rd of my images on the 7th Feb post shows the arrangement if you have nylon through bolts. Also shows the donut washer over the big nut on the bottom of the syphon.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 13 Jan 11 at 20:08
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...Ohh this is going to be great entertainment!...
Fenlander,
Thanks for that.
I am confident I can unbolt everything and bolt it back together.
But I am far from confident the reassembled toilet will be water tight.
Had the cistern valve lifted out easily, I would have taken the job on - only one seal to worry about.
But this is increasingly looking like a job for the plumber.
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That's a close-coupled WC Iffy. Low-level and high-level cisterns have a length of 40mm diameter pipe between the cistern and pan.
The watertight seal between your cistern and pan is by means of a doughnut washer:
bit.ly/dlbEBI
When the doughnut in this picture is removed, the nut holding the siphon to the base of the cistern will be easily accessible.
Turn off your water supply (obviously), flush toilet to drain most of cistern down, undo water feed and cistern-to-pan bolts. Cover floor with towels, put a deep roasting tray on the floor, lift cistern away from pan, catch spillage of water in roasting tray, take cistern outside. Remove siphon, change valve, replace siphon, fit new doughnut washer.
Refitting is, as they say, the reverse of removal (except you swear in different places).
Make sure the doughnut washer is centrally seated before positioning cistern. (A circular bead of silicone on the old doughnut can be used instead of a new doughnut, but will make it harder to seal next time you dismantle it). If the water feed won't seal properly when you tighten it, a half-dozen turns of PTFE tape on the thread should provide the necessary water-tightness.
Turn on water, allow to fill, dry outside of cistern & pan with towel. Flush, allow to refill, adjust fill level in line with tide marks inside cistern. Double check underneath cistern for leaks - a paper towel will show very small leaks that may otherwise be missed.
I did do something useful on this course last year, then :)
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Thu 13 Jan 11 at 19:42
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I don't understand that at all. Picture?
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... did do something useful on this course last year, then :)...
Dave,
Thanks very much, it's all much clearer now.
Shame you are not nearer North Yorkshire.
...I don't understand that at all. Picture?...
FT,
The siphon overlaps the flange of the inlet valve, so you must remove the siphon, or at least move it to one side, before you can remove the inlet valve.
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>> Shame you are not nearer North Yorkshire
A good 300 miles' round trip. I'd like to travel up there in the summer though.
PTFE, of course, stands for Plumbers' Tape For Everything :)
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...PTFE, of course, stands for Plumbers' Tape For Everything :)...
I've got a half-kilo pot of Plumber's Mate, of which I've use about a teaspoonful in the last five years.
Mind, it never goes off, so I'm told.
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"stands for Plumbers' Tape For Everything"
a lot easier to say than polytetrafluoroethylene tape ! :-)
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Be aware, (I dont think anybody else has mentioned it), that the retaining bolts on some installations are actually thro the bottom of the cistern with appropriate rubber washers, - another place that can ultimatly leak!
Older versions use a stepped metal plate secured under the large syphon nut. I would advocate a new rubber doughnut and rubber washers on reassembly to minimise risk of leaks. Some leaks will actually dribble into the pan directly :) so be prepare for some close inspection of the inside of the pan, adopting the technicolour yawn position.
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Fenlander beat me to it.
Just to agree with pmh to replace every single leak-sealing rubber washer. You might find a new WC is in order if replacements are not available.
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Well......
I've got Armitage Shanks bottom and Iffy's loo staring at me from a Screwfix advert on the right now.
Pat
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...Ive got Armitage Shanks bottom and Iffy's loo staring at me from a Screwfix advert on the right now.
Pat,
Click on this link a few times and you should get something more to your liking:
www.robbiewilliams.com/
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No more work today now!
Pat
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A potty question - Old Navy
