Some of the questions seem far to prying in my opinion.
tinyurl.com/6yodaht
I can't figure out from this article whether you legally have to answer the census truthfully or not (aside from the religion question).
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As you know, we have some erstwhile census officers in training on here.
As the new form has the ability to record your race as "gypsy/traveller" I wonder who of them will have the joy of going into gypsy sites to get the forms completed.
I can offer practical advice on how to avoid dog bites if needed.
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Not me - it's called knowing your ground...!
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From the article:
'A large number of the questions duplicate data already held by the authorities on databases such as the electoral register, school records, tax returns and GP information.'
Yup. The amount of information held on ordinary individuals is quite frightening. Of course, *this* information won't be available to anyone else for 100 years. A lot of the information collected about us is confidential, isn't it. Sharing it with other "authorities ofr interested parties" (or foreign countries) after collection is OK though, isn't it. Doublethink.
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"Sharing it with other "authorities ofr interested parties" (or foreign countries) after collection is OK though, isn't it. "
Nope.. A fallacy...All data is kept in UK... And is NOT shared...The ONS get quite heated about that..
That's the limit of my input.
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>> >> "Sharing it with other "authorities ofr interested parties" (or foreign countries)
>> >> after collection is OK though, isn't it. "
>>
>> Nope.. A fallacy...All data is kept in UK... And is NOT shared...The ONS get quite
>> heated about that..
You are talking of census data only I think. Other data are most certainly shared with other organisations and countries. There is nothing to prevent the data from being commandeered (or leaked).
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The census is accurate only at the time the data is collected at the door. By the time its collated its wildly out of date.
Get rid I say.
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If you want evidence based government it helps to have some evidence.
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If they use the census evidence, no wonder they get it wrong
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I shall be answering only the questions that I feel comfortable answering. If I do not want to divulge the answer, and the authorities cannot supply a satisfactory reason why I should, then I will leave the space blank.
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I am going to be a Jeddi Knight again.
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>> I am going to be a Jeddi Knight again.
It'll be Spaghetti Monsterism for me
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_Monsterism
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was "jedi" or something simaler actually classed as a releigion becasue x amount of people had put this as their anwser
I was on my way out of the front door when some jehovous witnesses caught me at the front door, I told them that I followed the Jedi religion and had a very interesting conversation about Star Wars with them
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>> I shall be answering only the questions that I feel comfortable answering. If I do
>> not want to divulge the answer, and the authorities cannot supply a satisfactory reason why
>> I should, then I will leave the space blank.
>>
It seems rather anti-social and self-indulgent to attempt to turn a legitimate and perfectly normal exercise into a waste of public money. What purpose will such sabotage serve?
I exclude the religion question if it's optional; though given the trouble that organised superstition has caused over the centuries, it's probably a good idea to know how many of which kind we have from time to time.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 21 Feb 11 at 20:38
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>> It seems rather anti-social and self-indulgent to attempt to turn a legitimate and perfectly normal exercise into a waste of public money.
Not really - why should I provide a Government that has proved itself incapable of safely looking after personal details with something I may not want my friends to know?
I get very frustrated with people blindly providing the authorities with everything they ask for in the naiive assumption that, as the authorities want to know, there must be a good reason for it.
If I am compelled to answer, then I shall provide a false response. I will not be bullied into divulging information that I feel should remain mine and mine only.
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>> If I am compelled to answer, then I shall provide a false response. I will
>> not be bullied into divulging information that I feel should remain mine and mine only.
>>
You may be interested to know that a completed reply is only checked for completeness: i.e. all obligatory questions are answered (the religious one is optional).
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>> You may be interested to know that a completed reply is only checked for completeness.
Thanks for that, madf. I love it when a plan comes together :-)
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According to this morning's I paper
"canvassers will contact 250,000 households to question them face-to-face to get an idea of the accuracy of the written information"
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>> If I am compelled to answer, then I shall provide a false response. I will
>> not be bullied into divulging information that I feel should remain mine and mine only.
Well, I've a pretty good idea I'll think half the questions are pointless or intrusive - but that's censuses for you.
If you were the government, I dare say you'd find aggregated data very useful in informing policy, planning, and allocating resources. As I understand it, individuals' data are not made publicly available for a substantial period of time and the primary use of the information collected is statistical.
Have you thought this through? I dare say we all have a different idea about how nearly everything should be done, so how are you going to resolve that to everybody's satisfaction? Do you take the same attitude to paying your council and income tax, while claiming your benefits, healthcare and children's education?
Being a member of society is not something you can opt in and out of day to day. If you don't like it, vote for somebody who will change it or lobby your MP. Or buy your own island.
I don't see where providing false responses gets you - is it better to have lies on record? I suppose it might amuse your descendants, doing their genealogical research, to find you were Lord High Executioner of Titipu in 2011.
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>> I don't see where providing false responses gets you - is it better to have
>> lies on record? I suppose it might amuse your descendants, doing their genealogical research, to
>> find you were Lord High Executioner of Titipu in 2011.
Exactly, its your little stamp of rebellion in the mundane mud of history.
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>> I shall be answering only the questions that I feel comfortable answering. If I do
>> not want to divulge the answer, and the authorities cannot supply a satisfactory reason why
>> I should, then I will leave the space blank.
>>
Leaving blanks is equivalent to not answering...
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>> "Sharing it with other "authorities ofr interested parties" (or foreign countries) after collection is OK though, isn't it. "
>>
>> Nope.. A fallacy...All data is kept in UK... And is NOT shared...The ONS get quite heated about that..
>>
From my experience doing Census rounds last time serveral individuals told me the truth but lied on their forms.
Specifically very large houses with staff flats ( defined as two dwellings for census reasons) had their details logged as one dwelling by the owners.
I can only surmise the owners were on some fiddle and were wary of the data being passed to others - the council maybe ?
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But do you have to tell the truth?
I'm fine with telling the Inland Revenue my financial situation, because they have a legitimate right to demand that information and, of course, a well established legal right to demand the information.
The same deal with providing certain information to the police, to car insurers etc
I'm less inclined to provide it on the Census without knowing who it is going to be used for.
I provide information to the police because I am legally obliged to, the same with the Inland Revenue.
I'm only going to provide what I legally have to on the Census.
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SFAIK one is legally required to fill in the complete form ie provide answers to all questions. That said I am am uneasy about the wide range and scope of the questions and the probable irrelevance of many of them. What is the position if one is abroad for 4 weeks, two each side of the census date?
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The simple way to test whether the information remains confidential is to deliberately insert an inviting error, like OS maps do. If it is really confidential, they couldn't find out?
Does the person collecting the forms have the right to question the answers? Is he allowed to consult his boss? Supposing I said I was black, would they have to accept that?
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>> SFAIK one is legally required to fill in the complete form ie provide answers to
>> all questions. That said I am am uneasy about the wide range and scope of
>> the questions and the probable irrelevance of many of them. What is the position if
>> one is abroad for 4 weeks, two each side of the census date?
>>
You get your form two weeks in advance.. and can complete on the internet...
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...You get your form two weeks in advance.. and can complete on the internet...
And if you don't, you'll get a visit from a busybody, I mean a census enumerator.
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Collector not enumerator.
If you are going to be all huffy, get your target correct..:-)
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...If you are going to be all huffy, get your target correct..:-)...
I'll aim for a higher standard of accuracy on the form.
Don't want a visit from a busybody, whatever their title. :)
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I remember a famous line from somewhere
"I got a job as a dustman, because they gave me a uniform, and I could order the bins around"
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I know the census questions were online. Does anyone have a link to them?
I do have a problem with filling in info for my daughter. She is 20 and in Finland on her year abroad for university. She would no doubt prefer to fill in her own information (or not); she won't be back in the UK till June, having been away since August. If she doesn't fill in details who gets their knuckles rapped? I'm certainly not giving out more information than necessary, and reserve the right to have a slip of the finger/pen when answering..
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IF she is not here, she shouldn't get counted.
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But on the FAQs on the census site it indicates that she should be included as she is only away temporarily.
Since she'll doubtless be going to live permanently in Sweden or Finland within a few years, they probably don't need to know her future needs anyway...
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You could try just answering the questions factually as intended It's unlikely that anything unpleasant will happen as a consequence.
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Been out for a bimble in the car - thinking about this Census thing - for me I will fill it out as accurately as possible because I am "that type". My involvement is purely mercenary - I work I get money and a CV tick in the box.*
I passed a good half dozen buses on my little trip - most of which were empty. I know that a large proportion of bus services are subsidised - I would imagine that in getting these subsidies in place that the 2001 census stats were used to build a business case. One example of why I think it's important to complete a form.
* Work being therapeutic in small quantities !
Last edited by: Pugugly on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 12:48
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>> I passed a good half dozen buses on my little trip - most of which
>> were empty I know that a large proportion of bus services are subsidised - I
>> would imagine that in getting these subsidies in place that the 2001 census stats were
>> used to build a business case. One example of why I think it's important to
>> complete a form.
And one example of how it was completely wasted or inaccurate. Empty buses?
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I think there maybe changes ahead around here.
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>> And one example of how it was completely wasted or inaccurate. Empty buses?
Some rotations in the hourly service to our village are pretty lightly loaded, perhaps less than a third full. But nobody travels from end to end (there's a faster direct service from Daventry to Northampton) so there's 60 or 70 people using each service and for many of them the bus is the only way to work, school or college.
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I agree with Manatee. Giving false answers is quite simply toeraggy. Why distort (even to a very small extent) data being collected by the government for perfectly respectable reasons?
If it makes you squeamish to be asked to admit that you are 'white British' or some other racial category you are permitted not to answer.
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There are better ways to protest than by putting stupid answers on the form.
I shall fill mine in as quickly, but as accurately, as possible.
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what a noncey bunch of conformists. I expected it from some members, but others - well really.
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>> what a noncey bunch of conformists. I expected it from some members, but others -
>> well really.
;-)
We just like to pick our battles, Zero...
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>> noncey
I say Zeddo, that's a bit thick. There's a world of difference between naively telling the government you are sort of black (or whatever) and going in for nipper-fiddling...
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Wow! Have I managed to genuinely offend you AC?
I am really rather gratified.
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You should be so lucky. You will have to come up with something a lot worse than that to offend me. I am loud, thick-skinned and over-opinionated (Pat dixit).
Come to think of it, she may well think the same about you.
I don't think we should try to offend each other actually, even in jest. We don't want to be responsible for any heart attacks among the maiden-aunt element, do we?
On reflection though, perhaps we do. Heh heh...
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>>I am loud, thick-skinned and over-opinionated (Pat dixit).<<
I didn't name you AC, and if I had meant you I would have done.
My actual quote was a collective one
>>At the moment only the loudest/thick skinned survive here, giving the overall opinion of a forum full over opinionated twonks, sometimes.<<
But I suppose...if the cap fits:)
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 15:25
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>> Come to think of it, she may well think the same about you.
Oh she did, indubitably ole chap.
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OK - what about if you are away from your home from a date before the census form is delivered (will it be Recorded Delivery BTW?) and a week after census day? I can't afford Mr Loophole, I just want to not be involved in the charade at any level!
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You need to be away for 6 months to avoid filling it in
2011.census.gov.uk/My-census/Frequently-asked-questions#
Questionnaires will go out by post to all householders during March 2011 ready for completion before, on or as soon as possible after census day, 27 March. If you don't receive one in the post, you will be able to call the census helpline and ask for one to be sent to you.
You should complete your questionnaire as soon as possible after 27 March 2011. Or do it before you go away if you've already received your questionnaire.
If everyone in the household is away on census day you should complete your questionnaire as soon as possible after your return. If the household is absent for more than six months after census day, you do not need to complete the questionnaire.
Anyone away from home for up to 12 months should still be included on your questionnaire.
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>> (will it be Recorded Delivery BTW?)
Our last one's were delivered by the collector, but we opted to return them by snail mail.
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WTH does Lockheed Martin know about Census work for HM gov?
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Feb 11 at 22:13
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As much as they know about the UK fingerprint database.
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Census - Zero
