I have never had need for a solicitor, but there are a couple of things that I might need one for this year (drawing up a will, maybe buying a house).
Am I right in thinking that people generally "have" a solicitor (i.e. are signed up to a firm) and then just use them as they need to (rather than going and finding one just when they need one), and only pay them when they use them?
Should I pick one now, sign up as a client, so that I have them when I need them?
I will ask around for some recommendations, but any advice would be appreciated.
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I've never used the same solicitor/firm for more than one job. Sometimes I've gone on personal recommendation.
However, at the moment I'm likely to get involved soon in the potentially tricky acquisition of some land and have already approached the last firm I used, more out of convenience than anything else. I say "the last firm", but in fact it has merged with another in the interim.
I don't think there's anything to be gained by customer loyalty. I hope you don't expect a discount. I'm afraid I regard the legal profession almost as parasites - a necessary evil. Its practitioners are not known for their poverty. (My apologies to present company, of course.)
Last edited by: ChrisPeugeot on Tue 8 Mar 11 at 12:21
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As Chris says - unless you're likely to be a regular user no real benefit in sticking to one. Co-oP legal services are very good will-writers and are very competitive compared to High Street people. Shop around for the best deal.
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I look at it differently. We have a local (lady) solicitor of 20+yrs for stuff here. We also have a solicitor 100mls away for the wider family... family been with them 30+yrs. It really *does* make a difference to have them know you and be on easy phone call terms. They still charge every item of course!
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>> They still charge every item of course!
Reminds me of the old Monty Python sketch:
Good morning sir £10?
How are you today £20?
How can I help you £30?
....you get the drift!
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@Mike H
:-))
Spot on!!!!!!
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>> I look at it differently. We have a local (lady) solicitor of 20+yrs for stuff
>> here. We also have a solicitor 100mls away for the wider family... family been with
>> them 30+yrs. It really *does* make a difference to have them know you and be
>> on easy phone call terms. They still charge every item of course!
I was thinking that having a firm lined up that I was happy with and also had some kind of relationship with, would be useful
Also, if I ever needed them at very short notice, it would be nice to not have to search around at that point.
According to Co-op legal services they would do the wills for a married couple with children, for £200 + VAT. Not sure how competitive that is.
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Whoever you pick, do not use a very young one for anything but "rubber stamping". Do not go sor the cheapest, a more expensive one may be able to deal with things quicker and be very competetive. If it's a local firm it may have useful "people" pages.
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You don't really "have" a solicitor, unless you are engaged in more or less continuous legal problems. But there is sometimes an advantage in dealing with a local person who is familiar with your circumstances, so you don't have to start from scratch each time.
"Having" a solicitor is one of those nice dated terms that seem to come out of a 1930s Penguin detective story - when the police inevitably initially arrest the wrong person, one calls one's personal solicitor - "Giles, you must help me, I'm in a spot of bother. I've been arrested for murder!"
I do "have" a solicitor in a sense, because he has my will and house deeds in safe keeping.
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Bit like having your "own" mechanic !
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>>>I do "have" a solicitor
I even *have* a crim one lined up... you never know??
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Some solicitors offer a will writing service inder Willaid at a very low fixed cost the proceeds of which go to charity, for the solicitor it is a customer generation activity, for the customer it is good value and for the charity it is much needed funds.
We paid £70 for mirror wills a few years ago and will no doubt use the firm again if we need such services.
www.willaid.org.uk
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>> We paid £70 for mirror wills a few years ago and will no doubt use
>> the firm again if we need such services.
>>
>> www.willaid.org.uk
It seems that the scheme is not active again until November, and I really should get a will sorted out now.
Does anybody know if the £200 + VAT I was quoted is competitive for getting mirrored wills done?
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I paid less than that in the event - It was a special offer - 165 quid for the pair inclusive of VAT - I am a member of the Co-Op though. Might ave helped.
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>> I paid less than that in the event - It was a special offer -
>> 165 quid for the pair inclusive of VAT - I am a member of the
>> Co-Op though. Might ave helped.
Actually, I checked with them again and it is £195 including VAT.
I'm not a member of the Co-op but, if I understand correctly, it doesn't cost anything to join and they just withhold £1 from your annual payment, so if I did go with them, it would almost certainly make sense for me to join first.
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>> Does anybody know if the £200 + VAT I was quoted is competitive for getting
>> mirrored wills done?
It doesn't sound bad, but it depends on the complexity - I take it that the arrangements are fairly simple.
What's the hourly rate, AAMOI?
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>> It doesn't sound bad, but it depends on the complexity - I take it that
>> the arrangements are fairly simple.
Yeah, just everything to each other, or to any children (if we die together).
>> What's the hourly rate, AAMOI?
Dunno. The £195 (which, I now understand, includes VAT) is just a flat rate, I believe.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 8 Mar 11 at 15:08
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It is flat rate - our wills were simple mirror wills - although I need to make an effort really with sorting inheritance tax issues out. I could have done it myself in theory but the Co-Op deal was a good one at a busy time, they were very thorough.
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>> do not use a very young one for anything but "rubber stamping"
I used a recently qualified local solicitor in her 20s a year ago for representation and guidance in a lengthy Family law case. She was very thorough, very helpful and with her understanding of the law all parties were able to reach a satisfactory conclusion.
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I have found the free consulation service they use very helpful. Only used it once and was told "it will cost £10k to take them to court, it will cost £50 to send them a letter, but you can write one yourself threatening legal action"....
While I didn't get the full results I wanted the matter was resolved so that I did not need to start legal proceedings. The company involved did however loose £1000's of my business over the next five years.
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30 yrs ago a local solicitor bought a Computer & printer from me for £15,000.
He was delighted but then bought cheap ones thereafter that gave him no amount of grief.
Over the last 30 yrs he has written wills for the family, bought and sold 3x flats and bought 3 x houses for myself and the 3 boys........................I think he got the Computer for free as i have paid most of the legal bills for the flats and houses!
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15,000 would have bought you a decent house then ! (almost)
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Alternatively, you could probably have lived in the computer. They were the size of starter homes then.
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I remember the first computers that I saw on in the mid 60's; they really were huge.
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When buying a house, DON'T go with the solicitor recommended by the selling agent. They will cost more than others as they will be rewarding the agent for the introduction.
A family solicitor is great if you have complicated affairs, otherwise you are better off using personal recommendations, and using different firms according to their known strengths.
I have doen three separate property transactions with the same solicitor. And have used another for something else. And WH Smith for my will.
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Personal experience or reccomendation are best; price no guide at all.
I worked for a while in a quasi legal office. We used a few mid size London firms for conveyancing etc on a cab rank basis and I formed a good working relationship with one of their junior partners.
He subsequently left and set up a local practice in the suburbs. Used him on my house purchase and would be straight back if I needed any other advice in the family/property/finance field. Not the cheapest by some way but I know he's absolutely straight, I speak to him nor his staff and if he says he'll do something it happens.
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I suspect he meant computer system, rather than a computer itself. Even 30 years ago a PC was only £3k and a perfectly good computer could be had for £500 if you didn't mind the limitations of 64k of RAM.
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>> I suspect he meant computer system, rather than a computer itself. Even 30 years ago
>> a PC was only £3k and a perfectly good computer could be had for £500
>> if you didn't mind the limitations of 64k of RAM.
In those days a system would include a computer unit and two or three input stations together with a proprietory software package. Sometime in the eighties my office bought Borroughs kit and a legal accounting package called SOLACS (to which we than had some bespoke additions). Cost ran into many, many thousands.
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Yep I know what the systems were got no experience of them though but I do remember Wise dumb terminals being very popular until the late 90's. I think they were wired by some sort of token ring system.
Quite ironic how the thin client is making a come back 25 years later.
No doubt besktop legal software is still very expensive.
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>>
>> No doubt desktop legal software is still very expensive.
>>
Hardware was £15K, software was extra. Processor was £10K for dual floppy, Letter Printer was £3,000 and a 2 bin sheet feeder £1700.
I could sell say 1 per month (sold other things as well) and earn £10K basic plus say £8--10K commission - £20K 30 years ago was good money - where did it all go? Children.................
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ive never used the same solicitor twice
and i always find one by recommendation
and i would never use an ambulance chasing firm either
ever
never
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You certainly don't need a solicitor for writing a will! It doesn't become binding just because a solicitor wrote it. In fact there are few things people use solicitors few that they actually NEED one for. Remember, solicitors have no legal powers whatsoever, they merely utilise court processes. They sell a service in much the same way that anyone else sells any other service. Nothing you can't do yourself either by application to the court where necessary or by going and looking it up in the library or on - line. But feel free to be royally fleeced. The clue's in their name 'solicitor', they try and bring about a certain outcome by whatever means.
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"You certainly don't need a solicitor for writing a will! "
Of course you don't but badly written and invalid wills are a major source of income to lawyers. Not for nothing is W H Smith known as the lawyers friend
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I agree with both posters - you don't need a solicitor for will writing but CG has the reason why you might want one - a disappointed relative might use a solicitor to drill holes in a self written will from whatever source. As I said will writing services such as the Co-Op's are pretty good value - they also keep your will securely and act as Executors if required. Matter of choice though.
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My will was done through my financial adviser, and stored with safeandsecurewills. I pay an annual fee of £20, which covers any updates to the will, and storage.
www.safeandsecurewills.co.uk
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I store my will with the solicitor - £zero / annum, so in 20+ years it seems inflation has been zero.
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Ditto, 25 years free storage.
They also store free of charge the house deeds, which apparently consist of 2 tin trunkloads of documents.
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As has been mentioned above, the reason that I want to get it done professionally is to make sure that it is as watertight as possible.
One thing I has been wondering is whether people tend to keep an updated list of assets along with their wills.
My will is going to be straightforward, in the sense that everything will be left to my wife.
However, I'm not quite sure what would happen if I died and the executor was not aware of all of my assets (for example any stocks that I might hold). How do they go about finding your assets? Do you keep a list with your will?
Also, I am not sure if there could be issues with leaving money to children, especially if it needs to be held in a fund for young children.
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I have a simple spreadsheet, listing assets - house, shares, bonds, bank accts, pensions etc. - acct numbers, branches, Pension HO, a rough value of everything.
Liabilities are next to nil as all paid by Direct Debit everymonth - so probably they should be in the assets column as often in the black.
Spreadsheet printed, in sealed envelope, on top in the document box FAO Solicitor.
Job done.
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>> My will is going to be straightforward, in the sense that everything will be left
>> to my wife.
>>
>> However, I'm not quite sure
>>
>> Also, I am not sure
Buy a copy of the latest issue of Which? book on Wills and Probate. Or, get down to your local Library (while it exists) and borrow a copy.
Having read that, and therefore with all the information you need to hand, it will make it easier for the solicitor to draw up a Will to your exact requirements.
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>> Buy a copy of the latest issue of Which? book on Wills and Probate. Or,
>> get down to your local Library (while it exists) and borrow a copy.
>>
>> Having read that, and therefore with all the information you need to hand, it will
>> make it easier for the solicitor to draw up a Will to your exact requirements.
Well, I'm not averse to improving my knowledge of something that I am asking a professional to do for me, but I was hoping that by going through a good firm, that they would be able to handle all of this stuff for me. I would expect that there is nothing in my situation that they shouldn't have seen a thousand times before.
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>> would expect that there is nothing in my situation that they shouldn't have seen a
>> thousand times before.
>>
Clearly by asking question in this thread you are trying to be forearmed. So be better informed and then you will know what you need to think about rather than turn up with no thoughts given to the possible options available.
If you are internet savvy, you don't even need to buy the book or visit the library. There are many UK websites giving you advice and some have free sample wills that may suit your circumstances perfectly.
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ISTR the solicitor to the Health Service regional board I worked for, once upon a time, had a floor-based storage system:) Our solicitor seems to operate in the same manner.
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>> Ditto, 25 years free storage.
>>
>> They also store free of charge the house deeds, which apparently consist of 2 tin
>> trunkloads of documents.
>>
>> I store my will with the solicitor - £zero / annum, so in 20+ years it seems inflation has
>> been zero.
Test them by asking to see the Wills etc. (say you need to refresh your memory of what the documents state). See how long it takes them to find your stuff. I say this because I know an Executor who recently had to ask for the Will in dealing with probate. It took the solicitor three weeks of faffing around before finding it.
BTW, the solicitor was also hoping to make a tidy sum in fees for handling the probate. The "free" storage would then have proved to be costly.
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>> They also store free of charge the house deeds, which apparently consist of 2 tin
>> trunkloads of documents.
>>
Get it registered at the Land Registry. Deeds are very last century.
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>> I store my will with the solicitor - £zero / annum, so in 20+ years it seems inflation has been zero.
>> Ditto, 25 years free storage.
A lot of wills are out of date by the time they need referring to. I presume you update it when necessary? How much has it cost you to update it in those 20 / 25 + years, and how much did it cost in the first place?
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 9 Mar 11 at 12:47
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If you can wait that long, and let's hope you can, then there's a scheme called WillAid which runs every November: www.willaid.org.uk/. We used it last year, and rather than paying the solicitor, you give a suggested amount to charity. It halved our costs, and we got very efficient service from a reputable company. Sorry if this has been covered in this thread: I don't have time to scan it now.
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>> If you can wait that long, and let's hope you can, then there's a scheme
>> called WillAid which runs every November: www.willaid.org.uk/. We used it last
see post at Tue 8 Mar 11 13:40
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>> If you can wait that long, and let's hope you can, then there's a scheme
>> called WillAid which runs every November: www.willaid.org.uk/. We used it last year, and rather than
>> paying the solicitor, you give a suggested amount to charity. It halved our costs, and
>> we got very efficient service from a reputable company. Sorry if this has been covered
>> in this thread: I don't have time to scan it now.
Thanks boolean. It has been mentioned before, and hopefully I will live to see November, but I really think that I should get it sorted now...you never know, do you?
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Pugugly - a solicitor can suggest whatever they like about the validity of a will, their opinion means nothing and they can do nothing. Only the courts can do something. The solicitor has to use the court processes to challenge the will. My whole point is that solicitors do not have any legal powers any more than the butcher does. Too many people seem to be under the impression that a solicitor's letter has meaning. It doesn't. They sell a service and trade partially on people's ignorance or unwillingness to do certain things themselves. Of course, there are some matters where it's entirely convenient to rely on a business well versed in a particular process - conveyancing for example. But they still get it wrong and should be challenged when they do. Twice I've gone and told a solicitor that they've delivered poor service and on both occasions I've reduced their bill. Halved a conveyancing fee and quartered a divorce fee on behalf of a friend. If you've got your facts straight they're unlikely to pursue the matter through the courts -which would be their only option. In my two cases they clearly didn't feel in a very strong position. the second one couldn't even tell me who their practice complaints manager was. An immediate failure in the eyes of the Office of Supervision of Solicitors.....
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+1
The quality of their work is an unknown, even when you rely on a recommendation. Much of the work will probably done by some junior or trainee clerk anyway.
This is why I suggested to SteelSpark that he should first at least read up on the subject because if he relies on "asking a professional to do for me, but I was hoping that by going through a good firm, that they would be able to handle all of this stuff for me" he may come a cropper.
If SS is literate, then for his apparently simple Will he should find that he is a competent DIYer.
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SS said earlier in the thread he simply wants to leave everything to his wife.
I might be wrong, but if he dies without making a will, that may happen anyway, depending on other next of kin.
Perhaps a solicitor could tell us. :)
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>> SS said earlier in the thread he simply wants to leave everything to his wife.
>>
>> I might be wrong, but if he dies without making a will, that may happen
>> anyway, depending on other next of kin.
>>
>> Perhaps a solicitor could tell us. :)
>>
>>
>>
Only in England, Scots Law is different IIRC
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>>> if he dies without making a will, that may happen anyway, depending on other next of kin.
*May* being the important word. The trustees of my pension scheme will only guarantee all death benefits to Mrs F if a specific notice of direction has been signed in her favour. If that is not in place (and similar to a non-will situation) they would be considering a split including the children and any other relative that could make a supportable claim.
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MAY is the correct word. Its not a guarantee, my pension provider has the same criteria.
Everything of note is and always has been in joint names.
House, Main bank account, savings account.
I die, its hers by default.
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(EDIT) responding to Iffy & ors on how estate devolves in absence of a will.
Depending on other NoK and the size of the estate
tinyurl.com/ygadjxu (Link to CAB/Advice Now)
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 10 Mar 11 at 10:11
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Solicitor - FocalPoint
